</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ustr:
[QB] Hello everyone. I've found this interesting reading. My H of 19 years is in deep MLC - Replay. The OW's H has been deemed unstable (from what I understand and is considered dangerous). Her H contacted me and asked how I was doing(May). We commiserated (sp?) but I said I wouldn't talk about the A with him. Perhaps I should?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why wouldn't you talk about it? You should be talking to him about it. He could become your best ally.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My T suggested I contact OW (those of you who have read my thread know she works at my company). I'm not sure how my H would feel about it. He may b/c angry? What have the rest of you found? Can it make matters worse? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hopefully, your H would feel squeezed if you contact the OW. And yes, he will feel angry. But contact can very well make matter better. You don't avoid doing the right thing just because it makes the WS angry.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Currently, my H is living with a friend who also works at my company and knows of the A. He pays only $100/month to live there. Not much "push" to leave there.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think he has a pretty good set up going, Susan and really has no motivation to end the affair. That is why I have suggested you expose the affair start making trouble for them. You are making it way too easy for them.

<small>[ November 14, 2004, 09:34 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

I can't even get involved in this thread it so upsetting for me. It makes my hands shake.

Everyone be careful!! It would have been disastrous for me to contact the OW. She knew what she was doing was wrong. It is well-established in my community that my FWH and I have been married forever and he was an upstanding, highly-respected family man. YUK!!She would have used anything and everything I did against me. My FWH was so spell-bound by her that it wouldn't have worked for me to say a thing to her. She cursed me out right after I talked to her after finding them at the hotel. She was mad that I ruined their night out. She said to me "WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE, THE GD FBI?" STEVE HARLEY saw my FWH as being extremely addicted which he was--almost brainwashed!! If your WS is anything like my sitch, stay away from the OP. All STEVE HARLEY encouraged me to do, if necessary, was to sue her for ALIENATION OF AFFECTIONS.

I did talk to her a few times by phone (as indicated above) and came up beside her in the car. It was like looking into the face of the devil. She never wanted to talk to me really. She was almost always rude and presented herself as having the upperhand. Wow, she thought she really had him. She did have him hypnotized by her. I do think it was helpful to for her to hear that I LOVED MY HUSBAND and would I would fignt for him. My FWH has told me that she tried to convince him that I didn't love him like she did so maybe my insistence about this was effective.

The only power that I had was THE PLANS. PLAN A, giving him good memories of me. PLAN B, making him stay 24/7 with her.

JUST BE CAREFUL ABOUT THIS, especially with OP who is immoral, evil, without conscience and loony!!!!

<small>[ November 14, 2004, 09:46 AM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mimi1254:

JUST BE CAREFUL ABOUT THIS, especially with OP who is immoral, evil, without conscience and loony!!!!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Correct... if dealing with a bee-hive-tempered OP ... don't go poking "it" with a sharp stick.

Pep

I had several contacts with OW. The first was the "Are you having an affair with my husband?" call prior to DDay. Of course she lied, lied, and lied some more. "We are just friends from work. I've been going through some tough times and we've been talking....." all bull****

A couple weeks after DDay, I saw an email from her while checking husbands email, I answered it. Told her we were trying to work on our marriage and could she do me and my kids a favor and back off while we were figuring things out.

Then a few weeks later after seeing continued contact between them I called her again and confronted her with "Do you want my husband?" of course she said no and lied and said there had been no contact, but I had proof there was....

Anyway, my opinion is that it had its advantages and disadvantages. The biggest problem with my contact with her was that it was a huge Lovebuster for hubbie and I at a time when Plan A called for avoiding them. He would come home from work and be really pissed and say that he was trying to end contact but everytime I contacted her it just gave her another reason to contact him.

The good side was that I felt better, even though I knew she was a liar. It allowed me to confront her and let her know that it was futile for her, as my husband promised me he would never leave me, and I believed him. I wasn't sure how much hell I'd have to go through or for how long, but I knew he wouldn't leave me.

It has been 7 months since DDAy and although things are wonderful with me and WS, she still attempts contact every few weeks, either with handwritten notes (very sexual and explicit) she leaves on his desk at work (she works in a different area of same company) or with emails to his work email or short calls to his work extension.

He looks at it now as that contact keeps decreasing and eventually she find someone else and leave him alone. But for now she is really beginning to drive us both crazy. She is seeing a shrink and on meds, but we are sticking together dealing with her.

{{{{{{{MIMI}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

I am sorry the subject is upsetting to you, and I can see why! The W in your situation does not know right from wrong and is simply morally debased. In your case, I think its pretty clear that it would do no good because you know that she knew he was married. Her intention of breaking up your marriage was pretty transparent.

But for now she is really beginning to drive us both crazy. She is seeing a shrink and on meds, but we are sticking together dealing with her.

When it gets to the dynamic in our dramas that it is "US AGAINST THE OP", then recovery can't be far away.

My W told me the one time OM contacted her after the NC, I called him, let him know my W told me and then told him to stop calling. We have not heard from him since. When the WS informs on the OP the OP feels the role change and gets the message.

If they don't back off then and accept it, then you could have a looney on your hands. OR the WS has left some hope with the OP or is still in contact.

k

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mimi1254:
<strong> She knew what she was doing was wrong. My FWH was so spell-bound by her that it wouldn't have worked for me to say a thing to her. STEVE HARLEY saw my FWH as being extremely addicted...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">MIMI, I understand where you're coming from. My H says he's not a "typical" man and believes his feelings are real for the OW. She knows me and when she sees me at work, can't look me in the eyes. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

My H didn't tell me about the A, I found out over a month by finding emails, phone calls, etc.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MelodyLane:
[QB] Hopefully, your H would feel squeezed if you contact the OW. And yes, he will feel angry. But contact can very well make matter better. You don't avoid doing the right thing just because it makes the WS angry.[QB]

I'm afraid it would push him toward her, not away from. Defending b/c he can..."her H has been so horrible to her." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Yah I know, what about me????

As far as having it easy, yes he does. He's alienated his family b/c they're telling him he's wrong and frankly can't face them. He works from early in the AM to late to keep himself busy. He said, "I just have to keep busy, if I keep busy, I don't think about everything. I just want this to be over." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> It's like he knows he's doing the wrong thing, just not sure how to get out of it.

Other thoughts?
Susan

<small>[ November 14, 2004, 01:58 PM: Message edited by: ustr ]</small>

Sorry to threadjack but 1confusedbs, I need to bring up a small but VERY important error in your post

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The biggest problem with my contact with her was that it was a huge Lovebuster for hubbie and I at a time when Plan A called for avoiding them </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You need to read Plan A again, carefully, especially as a newbie to MB forums. If done properly(according to MB concepts)exposure is NEVER considered a love buster.

you are right, I guess it was just that it created problems between he and I in that I had promised him after the first phone call and email contact I had with her that I wouldn't continue contacting her. I wasn't sure at the time if he was angry because my contact caused her to contact him or if it was because it exposed lies he may have been telling her. I think at this point I'll never know certain things.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by krusht:

If they don't back off then and accept it, then you could have a looney on your hands. OR the WS has left some hope with the OP or is still in contact.

k [/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have asked him each time she contacts him if he is giving her some hope or reason to believe he wants her, he always says he has done nothing to bring on the contact....but as with any WS, that doesn't mean he is being honest.

I just pay attention to how he is responding to me, how we are getting along, how loving and affectionate he is and try to focus on that, because I think it is harder to behave consistantly in a deceptive manner than it is to verbally be deceptive.

During the affair, prior to Dday...he couldn't look me in the eye, hell-couldn't look our kids in the eye, couldn't have a conversation with me face to face or be in the same room with me for more than a couple minutes....so I tend to believe now that it is over, at least for him.

We have a bond and closeness now that we've never had before in the eight years of our marriage. It's just too bad it took something like this to bring it about.

My answer is yes, if you are strong enough.

In my case, contacting OMM was maybe a 9 out of 10 (ten being a perfect thing).

A couple days after DD2 I thought I should talk to OMM about his intentions. I knew the A had lasted more than 5 years (10, as it turns out) and that W was very much in love with him. W had moved out and we were not talking much. She would not talk about the A at all. I needed some basic information so I could decide what to do and he was the next logical source.

I prayed for wisdom and strength to do this for a couple of days. Even while I was driving to his office building I stopped my truck on the side of the road and knelt in the gravel. I asked God to let me know if I was doing the right thing. I said if I could find him I would talk to him. If I could not find him I would take that as a sign I was not to talk to him.

As I was walking across the parking lot towards the front door of his office building I was wondering how I would find his office, let alone find him. It was late in the afternoon of the Friday before Christmas and I had no idea where he might be or even if he stayed at work after the typical Christmas group lunches.

Just as I reached the front sidewalk, a fancy sports car came around the corner of the building and parked in an executive spot in front of the door. The guy got out and reached the door just as I did. I had no idea who it was; I just held the door open for him and glanced at his ID badge as he reached the door,

It was OMM. God delivered him right to me. I took that as permission to confront him.

I told him I still wanted to save my marriage and I wanted to protect my wife. I told him I still loved her but I would get out of the way if they both wanted me to. He literally shouted, “No!”

He did the typical lying, minimizing and deflecting everyone should expect from an OP. He also told me he did not love my W. That he never ever intended to leave his W and had said that to my W many times. He even blamed it all on my wife. He said she pursued him relentlessly. All he wanted was the “intellectual friendship”. When he said this I did not yet know they jumped in bed together within 48 hours of meeting for the first time. He said he was sure she’d had other affairs, too.

As I was leaving he put out his hand to shake mine and said, “Thank you for being so civil.” Civil. Right. I told him if he ever spoke to her again I woudl expose everything to everyone, not just his wife but his bosses, his ex wife and all his family and friends. He said, "I understand." But I don't think he understands much of anything, really.

I remember his face, and especially his eyes, as vacant and hard at the same time. The recent pictures of the Peterson guy remind me of OMM’s expressions.

Some things helped me understand what had been going on. Other things just hurt. Some things added to the mountain of lies. Other things cleared up a few of the unknowns.

But the bottom line is I walked away knowing I wanted to help my beautiful wife get away from this player. No matter what became of me and our marriage.

T

As you might suspect, and as some of you have communicated...there are just as many good reasons NOT confront the OP...as there are to confront. I'd like to list some of those as well. Please add any others you might think of....so that anyone considering this option has a nice checklist pro and con:

*OP is unstable, volatile, violent or psychotic.

*OP is a "player" who doesn't give a damn about your spouse, much less you.

*OP appears to have no conscience and no remorse.

*OP is physcally threatening or involved in the mafia.

*OP is a serial cheater.

*OP is self employed, wealthy and answers to no one.

Please add others.

Well, we all know that a large degree of OPs lie as it's inherent to being in an affair.

So if you confront, keep in mind it can backfire where the OP tells your spouse that "YOU" threatened them or were mean to them. Your spouse doesn't need a reason to feel they have to protect the poor innocent OP, which would add to the "us against the world" fantasy.

And there is also a chance this dishonest OP would go legal on you and file an order of protection or restraining order. I've seen it happen on these boards several times.

Jo

<small>[ November 14, 2004, 03:20 PM: Message edited by: Resilient ]</small>

STAR*****

Thanks for your post!

RESILIENT****

I also say AMEN to you.

<small>[ November 14, 2004, 03:22 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

ML,

It is funny that you started this thread, as I was thinking of asking your advice on the same thing. I have read a lot of your posts and appreciate your straightforward advice.

As I read the replies here, I think that I would probably be ok talking to the OW. I'm not ready yet for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is FWH is still working with her. He and I are looking for a new job for him but have found nothing yet.

I'm afraid talking to her now would only make H's work situation harder. I do believe him when he says that everything is better and he wants to be with me and our children. It is just so very hard to get over when he has to work with her everyday.

But, and I've told hime this, I feel the need to address her before we move away. I just don't know what I will say. H sees no reason for me to contact her. I feel it will help bring closure to this terrible situation - closure for me.

He says he will not talk to her ever again after we leave and he will tell her so as he has already told her it is over. He just has to talk to her at work because she is a peer and on the same director level in the same dept.

Am I crazy to want to have perhaps the "last word" here? I still don't know what I will do or say. I know I need to remain composed and strong. I am a very emotional person. She is not crazy and does not call and make threats or anything like what I've read about here.

Now, she does still call him at work some and send emails and pages that have been personal. I do believe that she knows it is over and that he is staying with his family. She is divorced and lonely and I think she is having a hard time. Oh poor thing! @##!! It makes me sooo mad! How dare she fall in love with a married man. What did she think would happen? I have read emails that she has sent where she struggled with the guilt of taking him away from his family. So I know that she thought about it and is a normal, remorseful person. But did that stop her, NO!

Anyway, I was wondering if you had any words of advise for me? I really enjoy reading your posts. I wish I had the words and composure that you seem to have.

Thanks,
ng <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Hi naivegirl, thanks for your kind words. I wonder if the OW knows that your H is married? I wonder what your H has told her? I would contact her and find out. And I wouldn't wait to do this given that her contact is ongoing. I don't think she has been told the truth about the state of your marriage or she would quit sending messages to your H.

In the meantime, I would expect that your H would put a stop to these contacts. This is his responsibility. She shouldn't be left to guess that he is staying in his marriage, she should be told, in a letter, to hit the road. That is the least your H can do if you are willing to stay in the marriage.

Am I crazy to want to have perhaps the "last word" here? I still don't know what I will do or say. I know I need to remain composed and strong. I am a very emotional person. She is not crazy and does not call and make threats or anything like what I've read about here.

If it is the last word you want, I would write a non-threatening letter and keep a copy in case husband needs proof that you did not treaten her.

Some people think it's bad to have stuff in writing but I think it is good, if what you put in there is in good taste. Well as in good taste as it could be.

The most important thing in my opinion is letting the OP know that you exist and that they are destroying your family and that you intend to fight for your family.

Conversations would be hard at best and damaging in my opinion because of the emotions and possibility of anger. Your buttons are all ready pushed and you may not have too much control over what you say in a conversation especially to someone who may be nasty to begin with. Then you end up even more upset and angry, and have given OP fuel they already have too much of. Then she will have gotten the last word in, right?

Now I have a tendency to anger if I am threatened or treated with disrespect, I would end up in a knock down drag out fight, so I would have to go with a quick letter or message on the answering maching, but then you wouldn't have a copy of it, unless you could record it.

She most certainly knows that he is married. I know her, slightly. Over the years they have worked together, I have met her on occasion. H never liked her - was actually her enemy. You could say he hated her. That is, until he "got to know her". Both of our children have been born since he has worked there, so she knows all about our family. That is why I say, it sure didn't stop her. She didn't feel "that bad" about it. I've read the emails where she struggeled with the guilt, they both did, but they still continued to see each other. Both continued to hurt me and our family. But they talked over and over again about how they should "do the right thing". And they would even have final times together only to fall right back into it again.

He does not like the idea of the "no contact" letter. There are some extenuating work circumstances that I can't really talk about, but I know that once that is over, he will observe the no contact. I think that is why I want to talk to her. In some way, I want her to know who she has hurt so deeply. I think she knows it. I do believe her to be a very sad person, and in my good moments can even feel compassion for her. But then again in the next moment, my anger boils over - for her and my H. He really can't seem to understand why I'm so angry with her and not as much with him. I'm not sure either. I am angry with him, but I'm trying to rebuild our relationship. I don't need to rebuild anything with her.

I know deep in his heart that he never intended to leave me. But he was deep into the fog. Boy was he and her too. They were surely in a fantasy world. And even he laughs at some of the things he said and did. And in some ways I can too, now that I know for sure that he is committed to me and our family. It is just hard to come to terms with the deception. He has never lied to me before as long as I've known him. I have even started a comic act where I act out the things they said. H says I should take it on the road!

My dilemma remains as to what I should say to her. I really feel a need to do this. H worries about what I'll say and do. He doesn't understand what "purpose it would serve". Her self-esteem is very low (as is mine-even more so after his A). I think H worries that she will try to hurt herself. And neither he nor I could live with that. She has two children to support. It is so odd to me that her self-esteem is so low. She is attractive and has a great job. But yet, she can't seem to find an available man. Believe me, she has a sob story.

I can't really explain it, but I do trust my H when he says it is over. And he and I will put it all behind us as soon as we can find him a new job.

Talk to you later,
ng <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Needed to add this info -

H's job situation is very complicated. I understand and support it. He is letting me know each time he talks to her. I really don't think there is anything I don't know. I believe him.

My problem is us needing to move in order to completely recover our marriage. He and I both know we can't do that living in the same town with her. And my other problem is my ever growing sense that I need to talk to her in order for me to get over this horrible thing. Except that I really don't know what to say without stooping to a catfight type situation. That is not something I want to do. Even though that is what I feel like doing <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> .

ng <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Read the warnings about contacting an OP like yours. It seems to me that you want to contact her for the wrong reasons. Get on with recovering your marriage and stay away from that woman. "Been there, done that"

You may be sorry about not doing the NC letter.

I highly recommend following the MB Principles.

<small>[ November 14, 2004, 06:23 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>