Rejection feels like rejection. Pre-affair it is easy to accept the "I am not in the mood, or I am too tired." Why? Because you feel safe and loved. After DDay, it is just painful.

Everytime my husband pushes me away, I wonder if he ever pushed OW away or is the rejection unique to me. It makes everything fresh in my mind because he rejected me for a lot of years and had no interest in sex with me. Now almost 2 years later, we have sex 3-4 times a week but when it is more than a few days I start to feel unwanted and rejected, even if he has been running non stop on his 10 hour shift. Part of me understands that fact that he is exhausted but it is the emotionally damaged part of me that feels the pain of rejection. Maybe this is what Stanley is feeling?

Sometimes, WS's want you to be okay because they are feeling okay. It doesn't work that way. You might be crazy in love with Stanley, you may only want to be with him the rest of your life, you may be sexually attracted to him and want him as much as he wants you but, part of him is too hurt and too damaged to see or understand that yet.

Myrta, you need to take a deep breath and give him some time. He loves you and doesn't want to divorce you. He has said that many times, hasn't he? He just wants to believe that you want him and don't feel like he is just an easier choice. Maybe both of you are feeling unworthy and unwanted by the other? It happens because the BS feels hurt and has low self-esteem and the WS feels guilty and unworthy.

Cathy

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Myrta, how do you feel when Stanley repeatedly asks for SF? Why do you think you feel that way?
Stanley, how do you feel when she rejects you? Why do you think you feel that way? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">First of all my desire to have sex is is born out of the fact that i find my wife very attractive. IN a sense it is some sort of honeymoon. But, in the end I simply feel like it----------- it is hard to control. The sensation is there most of the the time. I am sure this is due to the so-called sperm competition syndrome, but I simply feel like having sex with her and the desire can be intense.

I must confess it has gotten much better than several months ago when I would literally go nuts if I did not receive a ton of affection. I don't particularly feel insecure and to be frank OM is no competition.

When she rejects me I have a hard time falling asleep and I am overcome with some resentment and anger. I know quite well there is no chance in hell she would turn OM down even while she is on her period or whether he has festering ulcers on his skin. To know that she would go in the hotel room and spend several hors in bed with OM is disheartening and up to this day I fail to see how she could have fallen in love with this man. This love story makes NO SENSE. I am 100% sure that OM would have zero chances with my wife if she was single and looking for the father of her children. However, as a lover in a clandestine affair he was more than enough and she provided a ton of SF while I got hardly anything at home. I was fully replaced by another man to do the honors of SF and somehow i am suppose to be calm.

Then on D-day I practically begged my wife to run away with OM to liberate me from my pain and humiliation. At the time I thought it was way better to have short term suffering and humiliation than a lifetime of feeling inadequate and to suffer rejection on a regular basis.

As for SF:

I almost never ask for it directly---------- never have. I simply touch here and there to see if she is interested. If I see she is drifting into a coma I know there will be no action and try to fall asleep. Last night it was one of the few nights that I expressed my disatisfaction------- and yet it was subtle. I simply said "I could not believe I had to endure the humiliation once again". She then exploded in anger------- she was ready for me to say anything negative.

AAs to what my wife feels: She simply wants to do it when she wants to. She does not like to be manipulated in any way shape or form. She has to feel it----- otherwise is not going to happen. She felt like doing OM 24/7. Maybe that is why I hurt!

<small>[ November 14, 2004, 08:18 PM: Message edited by: Stanley568 ]</small>

Stanley
After reading your post I am getting the feeling that you feel less desirable to your wife than the OM. Is that what you feel?

It is quite obvious that the focus on sex in your A has made it a focus on his recovery at this stage.

Thus reassurance.

And you want to balance the sex instead with being held and cuddling every other time or two; that not every hug or cuddle is meant to lead to sex.

POJA a bit on this to find a compromise that you both can live with.

I have had a similar experience in that my FWH seems to want sex less frequently than I do and at times it makes my question his desire for me when I know that sex played a part in his A...but I think he really was more into the falling in love part of the A's. I do know he loves me. He is 55 yrs old and I try to attribute his diminished desire to that too....everyone seems to be different in this area. Sometimes
I just conclude that it is my own leftover insecurites due to his A's.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Myrta:
<strong> MELODY LANE----so I should start chasing myhusband around the bedroom!! HMM..Its funny, because the first years of our marriage, he turned me down sooooooooooooooo many times!! I wonder why, we were newly weds. I want to start chasing him around, when it really really comes out natural. I dont want to be fake in my actions to him.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But now you know that he needs this in order to recover, so you should be willing to meet his needs. Can he stop meeting your needs except when he "feels like it?" That is not fair to him at all! It is not fair to make his need fulfillment contingent upon your ever changing moods, Myrta, that is cruel.

What if he doesn't "feel like" going to work anymore and meeting your need for financial security? Is that ok with you? Can he quit his job and become the greeter at Walmart if he "feels" like it? [can you live on $13k a year?]

Now, I know it's not always easy to feel in the mood, but you can try to get yourself in the mood. Especially since you know how very much it means to him. There are lots of times when I don't "feel like" having sex with my H, but once things get going, I find I am in the mood. Bring the body and the mind will follow.

You have to at least try this, Myrta, if you want him to recover. To do otherwise causes him great grief and despair and it is your job to do the best you can right now to repair his wounds.

<small>[ November 14, 2004, 08:28 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> When she rejects me I have a hard time falling asleep and I am overcome with some resentment and anger. She felt like doing OM 24/7 </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Myrta, here is your answer. He is angry and resentful when he is rejected b/c you never rejected OM.

Stanley, you will have to process and come to terms with the fact that OM was an illicit relationship. It was a fake relationship, and you are right - if brought to the light of day, she would probably not have chosen him at all. So in the end, he would have been rejected too. The rejection is not about you - it is more about her. She would like to have a relationship with you on other levels as well - more emotionally intimate levels.

Myrta, you are going to have to open up, and start giving Stanley some idea of what he can do to make you more open to sex. Maybe spend a few nights cuddling? Maybe trying something new and romantic (roses on the bed, music, etc)? Maybe paying attention to your features? Maybe complimenting you? What helps you? These things that will help you will also help him.

The one thing I see in all these posts is that you two have trouble communicating with each other in a meaningful way. You both post what you think the other person wants, feels, etc. You need to start communicating about yourselves - not about the other. Quit talking about how M/S made me feel. Or how M/S did this or that. Start talking about how you feel, and what you would like. Change it from being negative to being positive. Learn these communication skills. Otherwise, you will just keep going in circles.

MELODYLANE- You are right, once things start rolling, I love having sex with him. But I just wish he would approach me differently. With more romance, not so, take off your panties!! lets do it now. I would like him to be more tender, more romantic. He has never liked candles, or music, he likes to rush things and I like it with more romance involved. NOt only now, but always.

CONFUSED AND SCARED- Yes, he thinks he is in competition with the OM. He is not even in my life anymore, but yet he still iin competition with him.

BOOBYPRICE- Yes, rejections is not a good thing to feel. I know this, he has rejected me before and I dont like it either. But, this is not truly rejection per se. I still like him to hold me, to be by me. I love him.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Myrta:
<strong> MELODYLANE- You are right, once things start rolling, I love having sex with him. But I just wish he would approach me differently. With more romance, not so, take off your panties!! lets do it now. I would like him to be more tender, more romantic. He has never liked candles, or music, he likes to rush things and I like it with more romance involved. NOt only now, but always.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Stanley, are you reading this? What Myrta said is very important. Romance gets us in the mood. Approach is very important to women.

<small>[ November 14, 2004, 08:37 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

Myrta
I have to go to work (I'm In Australia)

Try to remember, that if this is what he feels, that it is what he feels. You could be everything right, but he still has to deal with his own feelings. It is not wrong to feel a feeling. Nor does that mean that is is rational. It just is and sometimes just being heard might be all it takes to feel like you are being supported.

Got to go. Good luck with this
C&S

L.I.T. WHAT gets me in the mood? I dont know, little things put me in the mood. Right now, I would like him to be more romantic. At the begiinning after DD, he will bring me flowers,well, a couple of times, he did, or he would buy me little things. Now, he does not do it anymore. I like it when we go out for dinner,only the two of us, he drinks some wine, and gets really loving to me, and looks at me with love. That puts me in the mood.
I am a very sexual person, but I dont like to be push.
Yes, affairs are different. He compares our sex life to the affair. I tell him that he cannot compare that,because its a different ball game. He feels that I never rejected the OM. I did!!!!
He thinks I was always ready with him, I was not!!!
Just last night he told me.."your worst punishment for what you did, its for me to divorce and you to end up with the OM". He was smirking when he said that! Do you think he should talk to me like that.?
Today after seeing all the posts here, after I started this thread, he was very happy and smirking again, because he says, that EVERYONE agrees with him. That he is right and I am wrong! Ok, that might be the case, but he likes to rub my negative things too much on my face and that hurts me and makes me close up to him.

Myrta

MELODYLANE- Approach is extremely important!!!


CONFUSED-SCARED-Wow, to work now!! Funny, we are in Washington DC area, and is 9:44 eastern time of sunday.
I know that feelings are just feelings, and he needs to deal with what he feels and I need to deal with how I feel. I think neither one of us is very rational right now. But we think we are! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Myrta

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Myrta:
<strong>
Just last night he told me.."your worst punishment for what you did, its for me to divorce and you to end up with the OM". He was smirking when he said that! Do you think he should talk to me like that.?
Today after seeing all the posts here, after I started this thread, he was very happy and smirking again, because he says, that EVERYONE agrees with him. That he is right and I am wrong! Ok, that might be the case, but he likes to rub my negative things too much on my face and that hurts me and makes me close up to him.

Myrta </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Myrta, when he says that stuff you have to realize he is saying it because he is deeply hurt and the anger is cover. Instead of getting angry and indignant at him, give him a hug and tell him how grateful you are to have him. Tell him you are sorry you caused him such pain. Be the bigger person, Myrta, and you will diffuse his anger by reassuring him. Help him recover, Myrta, from the damage you caused.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Myrta:
<strong> Just last night he told me.."your worst punishment for what you did, its for me to divorce and you to end up with the OM". He was smirking when he said that! Do you think he should talk to me like that.?
Today after seeing all the posts here, after I started this thread, he was very happy and smirking again, because he says, that EVERYONE agrees with him. That he is right and I am wrong!
Myrta </strong>[/QUOTE

A lot of this is his wounded pride. I know that Stan puts down the OM a lot, and I am willing to bet that although he thinks the guy is a piece of $hit and can't hold a candle to him, deep in the recesses of his mind he knows that you betrayed your life with him for this cretin and this is somehitng he can't reconsile in his mind. He is still in an awful lot of pain. Actions speak louder than words. I think you guys need so much more help than we as message board posters can offer you.

I guess I don't feel like I have any "good advice" for you guys here. I still have a very hard time understanding why a spouse betrays their marriage and an EVEN BIGGER problem how BS accept the WS back and "recover". This is all so hard. I really think it is easier to divorce, I really do (this is in no way advocating people do this). Trying to rebuild a marriage after infidelity seems so damn hard. I think Stan has not dealt with all of his feelings over all of this. That is ok though, it will take time.

For the record, how is it that the affair was revealed? What were the circumstances? Was the OM married also?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Stanley
After reading your post I am getting the feeling that you feel less desirable to your wife than the OM. Is that what you feel?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It is worse than that!

It is like having a 100 yard race with a man who has a wooden leg and he beats you soundly.

Very humiliating to lose a race you are suppose to win!

There is no explanation and the humiliation was yet so complete and devastating. I read the emails where my wife praised his sexual abilities over and over again.

Yeah, the man with a wooden leg was more powerful than superman. OM was her soul mate---- yep I got a chance to read the typical soul mate email. To be honest it was the most putrid stench remark I have read in my life. My wife never praised me in that manner. In fact she never used vulgar terms when communicating with me and yet with OM she used very descriptive terms.

So I tend to feel left out.

OK - so here's what I hear from both of you.

Stanley, you don't like to be rejected because you end up feeling resentful and angry because she didn't reject OM. In other words, it is a trigger for you to be rejected. You would maybe like to hear more often the ways you are better than OM. You mentioned she was descriptive with OM - do you want her to be more descriptive with you?

Myrta, you would like more romance, different approaches, possibly more "cuddle" time - or non-sexual intimacy. In addition, you would like to have the "in your face" comments about the A stop.

Hmmmmmmm....my guess is that if you both listen to what the other is saying (instead of trying to figure who is right and who is wrong), you can implement some changes. And these changes will probably result in more romantic feelings, thus leading to more, and more pleasurable, satisfying (emotionally and otherwise) SF.

There are a couple of other things I want to post here about recovery......some goals for the M itself - beyond and outside the A.

- A healthy M will have equality between the spouses. There will be no "power struggles"

- Feelings are not right or wrong. They just are.

- Speak in terms of how you feel and what you need. Let your S take action on meeting those needs.

- Listen to the underlying message of what your partner is saying. Get to the "feeling" behind their outbursts.

- Do you want to be "right"/Do you want to "punish"? Or do you want to be happy? Constantly trying to be right or punish the spouse will get you no closer to happiness than the A itself. You must forgo being "right" or being a "punisher" and instead be a listener and someone who understands.

There will be anger in these first months. It just is. But the important thing is for you two to work with and through the anger. Find out what it really means. Find out what feelings are hidden behind it. Anger is really a wall - a wall that goes up to protect the spouse. Try to lower it and let each other in.

I would definitely suggest MC if you guys get a chance. Even with SH or Penny Tupy over the phone. Many of us need help with our communication and truly understanding the other. In fact, a lot of times, it was one of the contributing factors to the A.

I am heading off to catch some zzzz's, but I hope you both manage to find each other's love tonight.

PS - I lived and worked in Fairfax for about a year and a half.....have some relatives up your way.

<small>[ November 14, 2004, 09:05 PM: Message edited by: L.I.T ]</small>

Stanley, she used vulgar terms with the OM because he brought out the very sleazy worst in her, not the very best. What they had WAS vulgar. He debased her, she debased him. What they had was very different from what you have and it should be! There was nothing honorable or romantic about it.

<small>[ November 14, 2004, 09:04 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

MELODY LANE- I have told my husband so many times how sorry I am for what I did. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I have told him a lot,many times that I love him. That I am staying with him, because he is the better man, in every aspect! Is not that I get angry with him. But he makes me very uncomfortable, I get scared, sometimes when he behaves like that. He starts sighting, he cries, he tells me over and over again what a bad thing I did. But of course, he has forgiven me! NOT!!!!

LEMONMAN- YOU ARE right, its much easier to give up in a marriage of 30 years, with five children involved,than to try to work it. I guess you are right, but I thought we both wanted to work in our marriage,because we love each other, because we dont want to hurt our kids, because we've married for such a long time. So many couples have survive affairs, why can we?

MYRTA

LemonMan:

I suspected the affair for several months and wanted to download key logger, but never got around to it. Every time I was getting ready to install key logger Myrta would do something nice for me and I simply could not follow thru with the concept of spying.

I suspected the affair because she rejected me in bed so much and seemed less loving. I questioned her about her bedroom change and she said SO LITLLE!!!!!!!!!!!!! I also question why she was less loving and she said nothing. Therefore, I concentrated in my work, golf, and other hobbies.

The whole affair was about deceit. I even got to read the email where my wife warned the OM that I was acting suspicious and that they had to be more careful. OM told Myrta they were not having an affair. He said this every time Myrta showed some remorse. He always told her that they were living a beautiful love story.


LIT:

Regarding resentment and how to interpret what we say to each other. I have said at nauseum that if I get enough affection there is very little chance I will get angry or resentful. However, it seems my wife enjoys the game and gives me just enough to keep me in between the dark and the good side.

I used to tell her: If I had been a wayward husband I would DO ANYTHING to keep the BW happy. I would be open and honest 24/7 and would provide tons of reassurance all the time. I would immediately show clear-cut proof that OW is out of the way, ect.

However, Myrta is like--------------- well many WWs. She had to continue contact with OM behind my back and lied about it. Up to this day I don’t really know for sure if contact has ended. She practically went into tears when I said something derogatory about OM even though I was saying the truth. At the onset she always defended the integrity of OM. For God’s sake---- if I had an affair and my wife wanted to thrash the OW I would gladly allow that. She was so protective of OM and was scared to death of me saying insulting remarks to the OM. Please----------- what is up with that? Why so protective of OM?

<small>[ November 14, 2004, 09:25 PM: Message edited by: Stanley568 ]</small>

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Myrta:

LEMONMAN- YOU ARE right, its much easier to give up in a marriage of 30 years, with five children involved,than to try to work it. I guess you are right, but I thought we both wanted to work in our marriage,because we love each other, because we dont want to hurt our kids, because we've married for such a long time. So many couples have survive affairs, why can we?


Well, you have a lot to try and save (5 kids and many years of marriage and companionship), so DON'T GIVE UP !!!!!!!. Many couples have survived affairs (as evidenced by this site---YOU CAN TOO!!!). This is a rough time and you guys can weather it. As I said before, you both NEED IC AND MC. THIS BOARD AND IT'S WELL MEANING POSTERS ARE NOT A SUBSTITUTE.

Now, you have fully acknowledged your betrayal, YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE TO DIE A THOUSANDS DEATH FOR IT. I think Stan in his infinite wisdom thinks that if he can chastise you enough for your betrayal than maybe you will hurt like him. His actions are not suprising and neither are yours. This message board has all the blue prints for saving your marriage, but you still need a professional. Your marriage and your family deserve NOTHING LESS. I can't tell you that your marriage will survive this or that Stan can get over this, but I think you need to give it your best effort by getting professional MC. Good luck <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Myrta and Stanley,

Let's stop for a moment please. Calm down and think abit about all of this.

First, permit me to address Myrta. I have mentioned this before and perhaps I have to you as well, I apologize if I have. But here goes. Has it occured to you that Harley list EMOTIONAL needs in his books and on this site, not physical ones. And often the #1 EMOTIONAL need for men is sexual fulfilment.

Now think about this for a moment. You H is coming up on 6 months and this is a time when the BS often sticks his/her head up and asks themselves "what the heck am I doing this for?". This is often coupled with anger. But in most cases this time is sort of an "emotional crisis" for the BS.

So let's have a look at Stanley's desire here. It is for more and more EMOTIONAL contact with you. He is searching for what he has not found quite yet. Do you remember the talks about opening up? He is seeking to do physically what he cannot seem to do with you verbally...become emotionally closer to you.

You are looking at this as a physical act and what is really happening is he is trying to connect emotionally with you. He needs you and he needs your emotional support.

I noted that you said you were a good wife and you are even going to take his car in for a check up. I am betting that you tend to show your emotional support by acts of service to your H. If that is true, you are very much like my W.

However, Stanley thinks you showed emotional support with the OM via other means, sex yes, but actually I would be he fears that you "talked" with OM and told him things about yourself that Stanley does not know. Do you see his fear? Do you see how he is handling it?

I also recall some decriptions of how you two interacted in bed with role playing. I am sure it worked well until...it was no longer a role. So now instead of helping him, it is serving to remind him of losing emotional contact with you.

Do you see the land minds, some laid years ago, and some the result of the A?

So Myrta please step back and realize he is NOT pushing you for sex, as he is craving the emotional connection with you that was lost. You can provide it via sex which seems customary for you two, or you can provide it verbally, which it is harder because you are very defensive about things. The point is that he is seeking what ONLY YOU can give him, your support. Not just help, not just nice things, but your support. There is a difference.

Now Stanley there are a few things you need to face. Myrta has proven to not handle what she believes to be pressure well. You know this don't you? Heck I know this. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> So isn't it time that you stepped back a bit, and thought about what it is you really seek. Put words to it, give it voice, and then think about it. Is what you want and need best achieved by the path you are on? Could you achieve more in your marriage if you took a different tactic? She says she likes romance. Ok! do that. But, do YOU want romance? Is her taking the car in, while a nice thing to do, romantic to you?? What would that be?

I am thinking you want romance from her as well, what needs to be done is communicate with each other about it. You both need to realize that the other is NOT out to hurt you.

Time for you two to start talking TO each other rather than AT one another. Just recall those DJ's. You both are making them, and acting on them and they will hurt your marriage. Assumptions that Stanley is basically out the door are apparently not well founded and actually destructive Myrta. Stanley assumptions that ALL of Myrta's actions are driven by her A or the consequence of her A, or even have anything to do with thoughts of OM, are foolish and you know it.

Quit making assumptions and realize you both need one another.

God Bless,

JL

PS: If you two live in the DC area, perhaps you could join a few of us next time I am in town.

<small>[ November 14, 2004, 09:32 PM: Message edited by: Just Learning ]</small>