KNEWBETTER- You are very right about the usage of viagra. If not use properly, its contraprudecent to the relationship.
And yes, he does want me to have sex wheter I am ready or not, wheter I want to or not. He gets really,really angry when I turn him down. But like I said yesterday, if we have been at odds with each other the whole day, I cannot be ready for him at night. I am not like that,he knows this.
He can be fighting with him, we can be insulting each other, but he is always ready. I mean thats
something amazing, but I am not that way.
And no, is not normal for a man of 54 to be so ready always. .I have always been more ready than him in bed and he knows this. But there are different cirmcusntances now and we need to solve them, dont you think?
Its a lot of pressure yes,(I know,I know,JL) but it is a lot of pressure forme, he does think that I owe him sex when he wants because of the affair. He makes me feel guilty by not giving it to him. But just because I feel guilty, does not warm me up, no, it pushes me farther from him.
Thanks for your post,KNEWBETTER. YOu are really good giving advice. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

MYRTA

Myrta,

Yes, I see your side and that it the point. You may not realize this but the biggest stumbling block to a full recovery is often the guilt of the WS. You are not unique in this. However, you also bring with you some baggage from earlier and frankly I suspect that this baggage hurt your marriage before and may have even been part of motivation for the A.

Be that as it may, here is the point. You fear he will leave you. You have always feared you will be left. You feel then and more so now that you don't deserve to be with him. Am I getting close?

Ok, then let's look at the data. First a statement of FACT. You don't get to decide if you are good enough for him...HE DOES. You never had that choice, he did so let's look at the data.

The data says that he not only feels you are worthy to be his W, he is willing to rebuild after being betrayed by you. Further, he has felt this way for what is it?? 30+ years. Just what would it take for him to convince you that he feels you are not only worthy he wants something you have NOT realized.

I am guessing so you ask them about this when we are done talking. He does not just want you as his W, or a W that feels not worthy and who defends herself from being thrown out, he wants you as his FULL partner. Don't you see what he is asking of you? He is asking that you TRUST him enough to step up and be his FULL partner in this marriage. It is not an issue of you not being good enough. It is an issue that he sees so many good things in you, that he wants you with him always, and he is willing to go through H**L to have you with him.

He is hurt because he KNOWS what is within you and it is what he craves. Myrta, you have been looking at this wrong. I know it is a natural way to look at it, but it has hurt you and your H.

Do either of you snow ski? If you do, you know that the best way to handle steep slopes is to use the edges of the skiis. People just starting to ski fall on steep slopes because while the understand they need to be using their edges, their instincts are to lean INTO the mountain and thus be closer to the ground. This means that the edges will NOT be dug into the snow and the skier will fall. The correct way to do it is to lean out away from the mountain, the edges will then dig in and you will not fall. But, instinctively leaning away from the mountain is scary.

The thing you fear the most, him leaving is much more likely to happen if you are defensive and protect yourself(lean into the mountain) and much less likely to happen if you trust him (lean away from the mountain).

You answered my questions with answers that suggest you would like someone to magically change your world so that you KNEW your H was not going to leave unless you pushed him away. Well, Myrta I don't have that magic, but YOU do. You have the ability to "lean away from the mountain and into what seems like thin air" thus strengthing your grip on the marriage and the love you crave. It simply takes you deciding to TRUST Stanley. You need to trust that the last 30 years were spent with a man that WANTS you with him and loves you dearly.

Myrta, you don't seem to realize how afraid he is that you don't love him. Why does he fear this? Well, your A surely caused that, but if the truth be known it is your defensiveness (leaning into the mountain because it feels safer). Leaning into the mountain or you defensiveness will and to some extent may have allowed the marriage to slip just as a skier who fails to set his/her edges.

Myrta, I know you are afraid and you have been for a long time. Isn't it about time you put the fear down. You are a strong woman, you have raised childern and have one left at home. YOu have managed to live with Stanley for many many years. Heck, that shows strength doesn't it? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You still see yourself as a little girl, but you are a full grown woman now, a mother now, a Wife now, and you do have the strength to deal with whatever comes, so don't fear it. But especially don't fear your H, he has shown you a lot of love in all of these years. And it is clear he wants you beside him not three steps behind in this life. Go join him, you don't need to defend yourself.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

Dear Myrta

I've read all of his post and so much of it I wanted to say so many times when you posted YES thats how I feel too at times. Most especially that last one on trust.

I know I don't deserve my H trust yet but I also don't trust him not to leave me.
I do feel at times that if I give everything up to him he'll just spit in my face and laugh as he leaves me & say see this is how it feels you b1tch!!
I know in my HEAD that it is very very unlikley but my feelings get in the way of completely giving him everything. Then I feel even more guilty and off the cycle can go.

However I am going to a good IC/MC who has been able to give me some understanding of ME!!. You see these are MY insecurities and not Aussies and she has given me little mind games so to speak to go through when I feel like this. It makes me break down my feelings iinto separate segments and allows me to test them against the reality of what is happening. This works for me because of the way I think but she said there are lots of methods for people to use to do similar things. But you do need medically qualified IC to do this without harm.

The sf was also a problem with us Myrta. When I first told him he would not touch me with a barge pole especially when he realised that when I was having the affair our sf as so often and well so fantastic it made him sick to look at me.

We started IC/MC together he at first strangely eager then he got less attentive. I started off reluctant and now feel its heaven sent. We did quite a bit of work on sf - i mean intense IC stuff - until it got to stage that my IC/MC said to me in one of our private sessions that a good old fashioned well planned seduction by me would not go astray that week. In fact I'm a little bit embarrassed to admit that she gave me some very explicit detailed instructions on how - well look I never knew anyone else but Aussie and the OM and I was drunk for that - I mean its not as if it was in womens weekly when I was younger.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
It was awkward, it was a bit intimidating, but I darn well seduced him regardless. No you don't always want sf I agree 100% but I made myself seduce him at times when what I wanted was to turn over and sleep. And Aussie can be, well rather passionate when aroused, so if you have to shut your eyes and think of England, you may as well enjoy it as my Mum says...lol

I guess I feel I am just not good enough for him anymore. I go insane with jealousy if he starts talking to women and have to bite my tongue and pretend its ok. Again my insecurities but they are still real to me.

Myrta I don't know where I would be without our IC/MC, please consider looking into getting some help there it helps heaps.
Oh & she also has me on St Johns Wort instead of AD's and the last week has been like a dark cloud has been lifted from me. Had to give up the Pill though but with Aussie deployed its not a problem now. Probably have to go to one of those real low dose est ones when he gets back.

Anyway give it a thought Myrta, it may help both of you.
Take care

((((((hugs))))))

JUST LEARNING- I really dont want to feel defensive. I know is not a good thing, but its so hard not to. I feel that if I leave my defenses down, something horrible, will happen faster. But you are telling me, that If I continue like that is more likely to happen. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
I am really going to try to be more relax, to fully give myself to him, to trust that he really loves me and is not going to leave me.
I am really going to try to "lean away from the mountain"like you advise me to do.
I have deep issues that I truly need to address too. I am going to have to start looking for some individual counselling for myself, like so many people have advise me here. Like you said, those same issues were a big contributing factor for me having the affair.
Yes, I do wish someone will have the magic that would bring me certainty of my future with my husband. Is it really me, the one with the magic wand? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
I know I am a grown woman, I have been for a long time <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> . But sometimes I wish I was not. All the problems that arise with the so called adulthood are not good at all. I dont want to fear him, us, I want our marriage to be the best in the world, the best possible under the cirmcunstances.

Thank you,JUSTLEARNING!!!

MYRTA

AW- WOW, I cannot believe that you feel the same way I do. Why do we feel this way? Were you insecure before the affair or just after?
Yes, I think I am going to take your advice and seek individual counseling. I need to work on these issues that are not letting me be happy.
We went to a Marriage counselor,shortly after DD, but we stopped,because she was not a good one.We have not look for another.
Marriage Builders have really help with the advice, especiallys JL's, he is great. Even though I did not appreciate him after DD. I was too in the fog then,not anymore, thank God.
I hope that you and Aussie can solve your differences. He sounds very nice and caring, and loves you a lot. You love him to, I can see it in your posts.
You know that in United States we have a root beer that is called AW? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
How is your daughter doing with her wedding plans? Hopefully she has changed her mind!!!
Take care AW.
I appreciate your post greatly.

MYRTA

Stanley,

How much of what you are feeling right now is desire for your wife, and how much - if any - is wrath/jealousy toward the OM? Is it possible that you want to have sex so much right now because you see that as a way to "win" against the OM?

Stanley, Myrta, maybe you could sit down and write a list of what actions it would take for EACH of you to trust the other. Trust is a two way street not the burden of one partner only. Neither one of you seems to feel *safe* in the marriage at this point but it will take BOTH of you to do the hard work it will take to get to safety once again.

It's very early for the two of you to expect to not stumble over one issue or the next but when you can perceive each other as true partners once again, you will find all these issues much easier to resolve together.

My H is somewhat floored at the many similarities in our situations and lifestyles. We've had a lot more time than the two of you to dissect what happened in our marriage prior to the A and it was eyeopeing, to say the least. I know for myself that the A happened due to unforgiveness in my heart towards my H's impotence. It wasn't the actual impotence so much but his distant behavior (very affair-like actually) during that time which coincidentally (or not) lasted just slightly longer than the A.

On H's end, his anger and ED was a direct result of my overspending habits, the more he made, the more I spent. It WAS pretty ridiculous looking back on it. Kids do not need thousands of dollars worth of designer clothes per child each year especially not when you have four! I was totally dishonest and NOT open to correction.

H's anger and lack of control over me resulted in a lack of control in his sexual performance. I went to great lengths to recover our sex life and harbored such great resentment over the lack that even when H realized that he had deeply wounded me with his distance and repented of it, I could not forgive. I should say I would not forgive.

If we had dealt with the underlying issues that both of us brought to the table, the A most likely would not have happened at all. As it was I was not willing to compromise and change my spending habits and H was not willing to compromise his position either. We could not come to a good resolution. Oh if we only knew the MB concepts,then!

I was furious that he wouldn't seek help for the ED and ended up shutting down to him, all the while maintaining the facade of a good marriage. He never knew how unhappy I really was. Even his natural recovery from ED didn't resolve our situation because I never forgave him for the sexual rejection. Enter OM and the rest is history.

Perhaps there is something, some defining event or ongoing problem that the two of you can sort out. It took us many, many months of disscussion to understand how we got to where we were at. Hidden anger and unforgiveness were at the root of all of our marital problems and it has been a Herculean task to break those natural inclinations and move into a healthier marriage. I think the TWO OF YOU can do this and it is a JOINT project. KB

P.S. Myrta, I just remembered that I thought it interesting that you were saying Stanley is so much more emotional now that it scares you. I used to tell H that his "newfound" emotions were DANGEROUS. He said he never really had them before (translation, didn't recognise them) and was at a loss as to how to handle them. Huge learning curve for him and me, and for the both of you as well.

Myrta,

You said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am really going to try to be more relax, to fully give myself to him, to trust that he really loves me and is not going to leave me.
I am really going to try to "lean away from the mountain"like you advise me to do.
I have deep issues that I truly need to address too. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But, Myrta to carry the skiing analogy a bit further, learn how to ski first. OK? I want you to do all you have said but you must first learn how to do this. It will take some thought, perhaps discussion with Stanley, and as AW so wisely suggested perhaps some counseling to deal with a few of these issues.

Myrta, again I am taking the liberty of speaking as if Iknow what Stanley is thinking and clearly I don't, but go slow, but go forward. He will understand this may take some time, but he will really really appreciate the fact that you are recognizing this issue and moving forward on it.

I suspect your fear is seated deeply in your past and it will take awhile to fully address. Clearly a good professional should be able to do it better and more efficiently, than us folks or you by yourself.

But, Myrta you have made the first BIG step toward healing your marriage. You really have. I fear this is something that has been bothering both of you quite a bit over the years.

Now all we have to do is keep you moving, and work Stanley over a bit more <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> so that he understands a few things better. I see he is getting a lot of advice about the big V.

Myrta, talk to him, tell him you want to trust him, tell him you will address it and then do it. You don't have to be "all better" right now, but start to make the effort and if you need his help ask him. He is your partner for life you know. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

God Bless,

JL

PS: REad AW's post again, it is a keeper.

<small>[ November 15, 2004, 01:40 PM: Message edited by: Just Learning ]</small>

This is to Myrta...

I have a slightly different take on your appraoch toward Stanley.

So, I'll just come right out and say it. I think you are behaving like a child. I think you are using "guilt" and "feelings" to sidestep your responsibility to fix the damage you've done. You continue to blame Stanley for your affair (saw it at least once in this post).

You refuse to do the things necessary to help him feel secure because of how he's expressing himself to you. I think you're doing this so that you can blame him further when things fail. You may not be doing it consciously, but I think that's what you're doing.

If you were serious about fixing this, you'd ask Stanley what you have to do to help him heal. Then you'd do it. No excuses, no retreat.

I've been through this and the biggest thing that helped me grow was to realize that I was hiding behind my guilt. I hung on to it to avoid doing the really hard things that needed to be do. If I had low expectations of myself and always assumed the worst was going to happen, I could excuse my own bad behavior.

I'm sorry if this sounded harsh. I think it's time you owned up, Myrta. The sooner you do, the sooner you'll see changes in Stanley.

Low

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Stanley,
How much of what you are feeling right now is desire for your wife, and how much - if any - is wrath/jealousy toward the OM? Is it possible that you want to have sex so much right now because you see that as a way to "win" against the OM?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am swamped with work today, but I want to thank all the folks that have taken the time to post to my wife Myrta.

Regarding your question. I am simply highly attracted to my wife. Everything about her turns me on----- I really have no other explanation. I am not thinking about winning a race with OM or anything like that.

At the onset when I was in bed with her I had many flashes of OM doing to her what I was doing and it was painful. I tried to use fantasy to get over it, but it has not really worked well, it was mostly a band-aid. During the 1st week I wanted to make love to her, but I felt strange and it was not like it is now. I was very afraid of not being able to deliver the goods because she had had been serviced by another man. In the first week there were times when I had a hard time getting an erection and I was very distressed, sometimes almost in tears. I wanted her, but also felt an internal repulsion with the flashes of the OM. In summary it was a pleasant experience, but I also felt stressed about not being able to make her feel good. You have to remember that I read all the emails where Myrta praised the sexuality of the OM and even made lude remarks about his genitals. Then Myrta said words to the fact that perhaps the size of OM was better and that I made her uncomfortable. As you can imagine that is a lot of stress. Then I tried the Viagra and at least my mind was off the performance issue and it also eliminated the premature ejaculation. It seems I was reaching orgasm as soon as sexual interaction started and when you reach orgasm right away you cannot maintain the erection. Even now I am ejaculating right away, but much less. All of this started on D-day so I am sure stress played a huge role in my dysfunction.

I will talk about why my wife had the affair later. But, in the end I believe it was nothing more than self-esteem issues and FOO. I might not have been a perfect husband, but I can tell you that most women would give me a high passing grade.

LOWoRBIT-- I dont think I am behaving like a child at all. Otherwise I would have no guilty feelings, I would not know what whats right,what is wrong. I dont want to blame my husband for what I did, not at all!! He has told me numerous times and I know it myself, that I am the one to blame. No one else.I accept my full responsability. Thats why its so hard to accept that he loves me, that he forgave me, after doing this big offense on him.
I do want to fix what needs to be fix. I want us to feel good all the time with each other. I want him to forgive me,truly forgive me. I have heard him and I have done the things he wants me to do. I have opened up, I am more affectionate to him. I have mantained NO CONTACT. But obviously this is not enough, so we are trying to find out exactly what it is.
Thanks for your input.]

MYRTA

JUSTLEARNING- AW's post was very insightful indeed. I have read it several times and I am gonig to follow her advice and seek proffessional help./
Why do you recommend I go slow? How do you think I should start? Should I go to a counselor first or start on my own? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
Maybe I should learn how toski as well, and kill two birds from one shot. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
I do want to trust him and him to trust me. Is very energy consuming not to trust completely
your spouse. I spend so much mental time consumed in crazy thoughts. I want those to stop.
JustLearning, I love my husband with all my heart and I dont want to lose his love <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> . I am scared that one day he will be depleted of my love and give up on us.
JustLearning, maybe you as well can talk to him about viagra <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> . I am sure he will listen to your advice, and I will too. I promise!!! We trust your say in the matter very much, and we appreciate your posts inmensely.

Thank you so much and take care!!

MYRTA

Myrta,
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I dont think I am behaving like a child at all. Otherwise I would have no guilty feelings, I would not know what whats right,what is wrong. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't think this is quite right. What truly seperates children from adults is how they RESPOND when they realize they've done something wrong. Children are quite aware of right and wrong. They do expereince guilt. But they expect someone else to make everything alright for them. Adults realize that THEY are the ones responsible for making amends.

Why do you continue to make your behavior contingent on Stanley's behavior? After my A, I dove into repairing my marriage despite my own withdrawal. I committed to do those things that had to be done to help my wife heal, regardless of whether I felt like doing them. It was an act of will. Could she have decided to leave me? Of course she could've. She can leave me tomorrow if she wanted to. My behavior towards her is not contingent on what she MIGHT do.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I dont want to blame my husband for what I did, not at all!! He has told me numerous times and I know it myself, that I am the one to blame. No one else.I accept my full responsability. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good to see you type this...then you'll not be putting in your posts in the future.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Thats why its so hard to accept that he loves me, that he forgave me, after doing this big offense on him.
I do want to fix what needs to be fix. I want us to feel good all the time with each other. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Stop looking for the "catch". Accept that he has chosen to love you anyway and be VERY grateful. How can you show him this appreciation in ways that he understands (not ways YOU understand, but in his language).

You have to commit to behaving in ways that build your marriage. Even when you don't feel like it. You control your actions. You can choose to share SF with your H. This business about it having to be "natural" is romantic garbage. Sure, it's great when it just "happens" but most mature people know that they have to MAKE it happen.

You see, here is the crux of the issue...you want everything to always feel good between you. You surely must realize that there's going to be a whole lot of work before both of you that may not "feel" good. You can't shrink from this.

Basically, Myrta, I'm suggesting that you take your feelings by the horns and you drive them instead of them driving you.

I know you are hurting Myrta, how I know that well. But your love for Stanley should help you move through that a bit.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I have heard him and I have done the things he wants me to do. I have opened up, I am more affectionate to him. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think you are trying you address the things he's asking for on YOUR terms - not his. Maybe it's foreign to women, but men equate affection and SF in their marriage. Men want SF as a form of re-assurance. From what he has posted, you clearly have not done everything he wants you to do. Are you truly willing to do what he needs you to do?

You're right. NO CONTACT is not enough. You must go FULL CONTACT with Stanley. He has to know that he has every iota of you and you're not holding out anything for the OM. It's your job to tell him repeatedly that you are his and no one elses...as often as he needs to hear it.

Myrta, grown ups do the right things despite their feelings. Can you do this?

Low

LOWoORBIT- But you and I are different people!! You handle things much better that I am doing, great for you. I can't pretend that I want to have sex, when I truly dont want to. I think that if I just do it, to please him, without me wanting to do it, will work negatively towards the healing of the marriage.
I cannot give in, just because HE wants to, after he giving me "love busters" just hours before. I just cannot do it.
I am not really expecting HIM to make everything right again. I know is a joint effort, we both must work in the marriage.
I am not looking for a "catch" here. I am truly scared to let myself go. I guess I am trying to protect myself, even if I really dont have to. I know he is my husband and I should trust him completely, since he was not the one that did something wrong. But I am very hesitant of everything right now. I wish I did not feel this way,but I do. I cannot control my thoughts and they can be paralizing to do what if right to do.
I am sorry, but thats the way I am.
I feel insecure of his love, even if he says he loves me. I feel insecure that he will stay, even if he says he wont.

Thanks for replying.

MYRTA

LowOrbit,

Sorry to threadjack Myrta!!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't think this is quite right. What truly seperates children from adults is how they RESPOND when they realize they've done something wrong. Children are quite aware of right and wrong. They do expereince guilt. But they expect someone else to make everything alright for them. Adults realize that THEY are the ones responsible for making amends </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That was one of the best explanations that I have read on this forum. I wish that I could have taped that to my WW's makeup mirror years ago.

((( Low )))

You've come a long way baby.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

One smart cookie, that's you.

((( Myrta )))

You are much more loveable than you give yourself credit for.

Take care

Pep

Myrta,

I have to go to an appointment but I wanted to quote one thing you said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I cannot give in, just because HE wants to, after he giving me "love busters" just hours before. I just cannot do it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">See the part I put in bold? Well, here is how you start to trust and you can talk to Stanley about this. You are NOT GIVING IN. This is not a contest of wills. It is you accepting that he NEEDS certain things and deciding to give them to him even if he spoiled the day with LB's. I think as you do this you will short circuit the LB's.

What you may not realize is that LOW is telling you essentially the same thing I am. He is choosing different words. If you love him Myrta, then darn it just love the guy and don't hold back.

You worry about him running out of love, but the best way for you to make sure he does not is to fill his tank. Now this all seems very one sided doesn't it?? Right now it is.

But, Myrta he loves you and he doesn't want to lose you either so as he learns to believe that you trust him and you love him wholy, then the heat is on him to do the same to you or lose you.

One hand washes the other Myrta. You grap the soap and start washing and that other hand will join in.

I mentioned going slowly because I have chosen to believe that your fears are grounded in your childhood. If they are, this will NOT go away over night, so don't expect that. You will have to overcome your natural instincts for awhile but gradually you will come to realize you are no longer acting out of fear, but because you truly love the man you are married to and you two have become a team that is closer than ever before.

Low's example of digging was dead on. He came to realize he had to show love and he had to do it as if he trusted his W to eventually return it to him. Gutsy move but appropriate.

Must go, but please think about this and talk to Stanley. We are working on you right now, but don't worry we will work on him soon. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

God Bless,

JL

PEPPERBAND_ <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Is this for real?
If it is, it really m eans a lot coming from you.
I know you and I have not seen eye to eye in some of my issues. But I think I am changing, slowly but surely. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Thank you Pepperband.
Myrta

jUSTLEARNING-Yikes! You got me before going to your appointment!
Yes, ok, I should not say those things. I am really going to do my best. Love busters or not, I am going to pretend they did not happen, and I am going to go for it!!
I do love him and I dont want to lose him. So I am going to do what you and LowOrbit advise me. I am going to be at my husband's mercy. I am going to become my "husbands toy" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
I will start tonight!!!

Take care JL

Myrta

Jl, KB, LOW, AW, LIN, et al:

Thank you for posting to Myrta.

I want to clear some misconceptions.

I am not taking Viagra left and right. In fact if I did so I would be throwing away money on the thrash at an alarming rate. As I said before we are averaging SF twice a week, is not an every day thing. I take Ginkgo Biloba left and right and it has some nice effects. Maybe Myrta thinks they are one and the same.

I don't expect SF everyday and I would not like to have SF if Myrta is not motivated. I did plenty of that when she was having the A.

I would say that in the overwhelming majority of times we had SF in the last couple of months I waited for Myrta to initiate.

I will not deny there were nights when I was almost 100% sure she was going to offer SF and I pre-medicated so I could be the 20 year old once again. There were nights when i thought for sure there would be SF and I based my prediction on what transpired during the day. On those days---- mostly s Saturdays after a night out I got upset. For example this AM many asked me how was my weekend. And I said------- "below average". Why-------------- no SF for the entire weekend (72 hours). I always wanted SF on the weekend.

I think Myrta feels pressured because I would welcome SF more often. AND SHE CANNOT STAND PRESSURE! It is not a whole lot of pressure. I am simply talking a little extra on the weekend. i am tired of having zero action on the weekend.

Viagra is not an aphrodisiac. If one has no desire to have SF is like the pill was never ingested---------- it does nothing. Check out the ENs section about the men who never give SF to their wives despite taking VIAGRA religiously. In the end SEX is between the ears. Viagra does not cause desire to have SF.

I love Myrta and I don't want a divorce. That is as clear as water. So why does she think i want to leave her? Folks we always judge based on our own condition. For instance I always trusted Myrta without hesitation. That is why she never bothered to hide cell phone bills or the check book. I gave everything I had to her and did not worry one iota. I knew she was friendly with OM, an ex-classmate. I never suspected anything------- the guy was not Hollywood material. OTOH, Myrta always checked on me to make sure I was not having an affair. An affair NEVER crossed my mind in 30 years of marriage, however, Myrta always checked.

Myrta cannot believe I love her, but as I said. She could not believe I wanted to marry her either more than 30 years ago.

Myrta does not know how to offer reassurance. Whatever reassurance I have is the result of my self-esteem.

When Myrta met OM her opening remark was "I am less than my husband; in our marriage I don't feel his equal". Wow! What a bonanza for an OM. That became the theme of the courtship. OM made sure Myrta was his equal with the constant repetition of typical OM prose in every email. Myrta will be the 1st one to tell you that OMs words were highly effective and before you knew it I was the bad guy in the movie.

<small>[ November 15, 2004, 08:41 PM: Message edited by: Stanley568 ]</small>