Myrta -

This is very easy to fix. Your husband is hurting right now, and feeling insecure. All you need to do is just give your SF, even if you don't feel like it.

I think this will pass with Stanley soon. So just do your part. It won't hurt you at all, but may make him feel better and safer.

Myrta and Stanley,

Sorry I had to abandon for the day.....work was incredibly crazy today.

You have both received some great advice....From everyone. The trick is to actually receive it and not fight it.

So many of these types of feelings and/or issues are cyclical. Stanley, you want SF b/c you are interested in Myrta. She does not want it b/c she is demotivated from previous LBs (other innocent reason). You become resentful thinking "she never turned OM down." You get angry and LB. Later, Stanley, you want SF again. She does not want it......yada yada yada.

Break the cycle. Myrta - maybe try to not let the LBs hurt so much - depersonalize them and realize that he is getting his anger out. Then try to be open to a little more SF - give Stanley some ideas. Or better yet, implement your own romantic scenes, etc.

Stanley - try to cut down on the LBs. Talk to Myrta as a person, and do not degrade her. Just as your self esteem is fragile right now, so is hers. Beating her down will not benefit either of you in the long run. If she begins to feel better, she will be more open to SF. Try to implement some romance in there somewhere as well. Don't make it "just about SF" - love her for all she is....make love <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Each of you work on your part. And then begin to work together instead of against each other. Create a positive cycle instead of a negative. You both love each other. Trust in that love. BOTH of you. Work on ways to make this something you do together.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by LowOrbit:
<strong> I don't think this is quite right. What truly seperates children from adults is how they RESPOND when they realize they've done something wrong. Children are quite aware of right and wrong. They do expereince guilt. But they expect someone else to make everything alright for them. Adults realize that THEY are the ones responsible for making amends.

Why do you continue to make your behavior contingent on Stanley's behavior? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Damn, he's good! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I think that if Stanley and Myrta BOTH apply POJA and the Rule of Protection to this issue, Myrta would not be planning on being her husband's "toy" even if/when she doesn't feel like it. SF is not a game.... it is something that CAN be done when one party (usually the woman) doesn't desire it but at what cost?

If Myrta cannot be honest about her feelings to Stanley about not wanting SF after being LBed or whatever the reason during the day, then why can she not say so? Why does she feel afraid when she says no? I am not understanding the advice here at all, where is the Rule of Care or the Rule of Protection in this? If Myrta and Stanley can POJA this then that is a different story, but what I see is Myrta just caving in to the group consensus.

Meeting needs is a TWO WAY street. POJA is the tool, to come to ENTHUSIASTIC AGREEMENT on an issue. Advising Myrta do do *it* whether she feels like it or not discounts that. There is a discrepancy in what they post, Myrta says he wants it every night but Stanley says not. Who is right? I dunno but swallowing her feelings in the first place is what got Myrta in the boat she is in today. Why advise her to do more of the same? Until the ANGER issues are properly addressed on BOTH ends, SF is never going to be of the QUALITY, let alone quantity that either Stanley or Myrta want even if it is happening. KB

KNEWBETTER- I guess that if people like JL, that knows so much of the matter advice me that I should do it when he wants, it must be right. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
I really want to make mymarriage work. I want to make him happy now, and if thats something that is going to do it, I will do it, even if I dont want to.
Knewbetter, he really does want to do it everynight. He is trying to play it down now, he does take viagra every night. I know he takes ginko bilova too, and that also enhances his sexuality. They are kept in different places, ginko in the kitchen cabinet, viagra in our medicine cabinet. So I know that he takes it every night. He is always ready <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> . I sleep with him, I know.
I guess POJA is not in effect at this stage of our rebuilding the marriage. Maybe later on <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
I do feel bad and embarrass saying no to him. Because I know I should give in to him. He expects this from me, I owe it to him.
So I will officially become his "sex toy" to please him, to make him happy, to agree with mostly everyone here.
Knewbetter thank you so much for your words. YOu are such a nice,nice person.

MYRTA

Myrta -

Hang in there girl. Knewbetter is probably right, but how many of us women have just done the deed to make our husbands happy? Lots I would suspect.

I am thinking that it might make Stanley more secure.

BELIEVER- Thank you. I guess everyone is right to some extent in their advice to me,to us. I know he needs my reassurance, I have to give it tohim.
How are you doing Believer? Continuing with your plans of divorce? Are you happy with your decision so far?
I wish you the best, you really deserve it. YOu are an incredible human being.

Take care

Myrta

Well, I sort of agree with KB. I don't want charity sex. I can tell when Myrta is really into it and when she is trying. There is a huge difference. This is something I never had to endure pre-Affair. Up until the affair we had SF because we felt like having SF. No one ever force anyone in this marriage. When she was young Myrta wanted it more often and many times I started SF with little enthusiasm, but that only lasted 3 minutes because as a young man it is easy to get aroused. As we got older we naturally settled on twice a week which is where Myrta heading.

I don't need the SF everyday, but I sometimes take the pill thinking I am going to get some. If I don't get it I don't complain. However, when I am denied on a Saturday after a romantic evening I sometimes lose it. Myrta has always known I love sex on the weekend and that I was never to crazy about SF when it was late and I had to get up bright and early to go to work.

As for the pills I am ready to give them up. Perhaps I am over the shock of D-day and can perform as I did before D-day. But, once you feel like 20 it is HARD TO GO BACK BEING 54 AGAIN!

LIT:

I was the champion of LBs and they were mostly phrases designed to ridicule Mr. OM. I have been doing a better job with that, but to be honest after D-day I acted like a [censored]. I actually begged my wife to leave me and to shack up with the OM. One of my BIG LBs used to be: "You want OM? You can have him! I will call him for you!".

During those days I felt that the short term pain of my wife leaving would be better than having to endure the aftermath of the affair.

My wife hid her withdrawal from me because to be honest it would had killed me.

Myrta was also a different WW: she dumped OM ASAP and has acted in an honorable manner other than being unable to do a true NC from day one.

<small>[ November 15, 2004, 10:53 PM: Message edited by: Stanley568 ]</small>

{{{Stanley}}}{{{ Myrta}}} My heart just kind of dropped reading both of your posts. Stanley you don't have to give up feeling like a 20 year old, not at all! I mean how great is it that the V works so well for you? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Thing is, it can be a gift to your wife or a curse depending on how you use it. That's all.

How do you feel about "planning" the V? Can you tell her instead of taking it on the sly and *hoping*? Are you comfortable with this idea? Maybe you could ask Myrta how she feels about this. Communication.

Oh Stanley, Myrta wants you to be happy with HER just as you want her to be happy with YOU. I know I keep harping on the two way street thing, but it is so important for both of you to see that you can learn to be a team again.

Being honest about feelings and dealing with issues in a way that respects the other person is where you guys need to place your focus. It doesn't appear you have operated this way for some time. You do realize that this entire thread is not *really* about SF don't you?

I was listening to our ten year old read a book that he had been given by his grandmother yesterday and it was pretty good stuff! Here's the gist of it, it was a book called Surviving Fights With Your Brothers and Sisters by Joy Wilt.

WHY DO BROTHERS AND SISTERS FIGHT? (insert husband and wife)

Reason number one: Wishing your parents loved you more than they love anyone else (insert wishing your spouse loved you more than anyone else)

Reason number two: Wishing you were the best

Reason number three: Not being respected

Reason number four,: Being treated unfairly by your parents (insert spouse)

Reason number five: Being teased (insert LBs and DJs)

Reason number six: Being embarrassed (insert feeling humiliation)

Reason number seven: Having your things abused (insert other people having their way with your spouse)

Reason number eight: Being together too much (insert selfish demands (?))

Our son's comment after reading the book was, "Well, that makes sense." Out of the mouth of babes. I think that you, Stanley and Myrta can go down this list and see how the conflicts arise whether the issue is SF or where to eat dinner.

We all want to be loved and thought of as the best by our spouse. We all want to be treated with respect and in fairness. No one likes to have their noses rubbed in past mistakes. No one likes being teased or humiliated. (LBs/DJs) No one wants to face the spectre of infidelity in their lives but most of us here HAVE and lived to tell the tale. Number eight sort of stumps me as far as relevence to marriage building right now so I'll leave that to a more awake person. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Anyway, hope you won't think it is silly...it is pretty basic but our needs are pretty basic aren't they? You guys might want to take another look at the concept of POJA and see whether you have what it takes to apply it. I have an old thread layig around somewhere about our POJA week experiment. TOUGH, I tell you!! One solid week of attentive POJA. Enthusiastic agreement on everything and it was right around the six month mark.

The result was that we started working towards considering each other's needs in a more aware way. They say it takes three weeks to learn a new habit and one week was more than enough the way we did it but the end result was really rewarding. You might want to at least review the concept again. I think it would make a big positive difference in how you both view each other and how you live your day to day lives. Best, KB

Myrta and Stanley, I haven't been on this thread because you are getting such wonderful advice and my situation is totally the reverse of yours.

You know there is so much love between the two of you. If we're all still around then (posting on MB <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ) I'm sure we'll see you celebrating your 50th anniversary.

Trust me, you guys, you can and will get through this. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Jen

Stanley and Myrta..

Take a peek at the BS stages thread courtesy Bob Pure..read CJs stages and take into consideration that they swap around..at this point jumping from one stage to any other daily is not at all unusual.

I like to call this time frame you are currently sampling.."The Actively Psychotic" stage.

Myrta..first rule of survival..the crazy person is always right. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Noodle

Hi Myrta

How are things today.??

I had to laugh at the ‘sex toy’ bit.
Me? Aussies sex toy?? LMAO Can’t you see me now, black sexy lace Victoria Secret ‘s outfit and with a deep voice saying ‘ when I’m good I’m good, but when I’m bad I’m even better
Dar-ling‘………………...ROTF & LOL
Nope, sex kitten perhaps.......lol <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Besides, Aussies idea of romance is to take his boots off.. !!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

But SERIOUSLY , its not about being a sex toy, its more about being THE person, the ONLY person who can give comfort in a most special and intimate way to the man you have hurt and injured.
To me that’s a rather special and well POWERFUL place to be.
I can cause him pain or lessen it. It really is my choice.

I try to ensure I rarely say no to Aussie but sometimes its just unavoidable. Usually because we have been so much like rabbits that well if you must know, I’m sore. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />
But I try to make sure he understands its not because I don’t want him.

I mean I understand that this will not be like this for ever but it is so important right now for me to give Aussie extra attention and SF to help him heal. However it is hard with him in Iraq and me here so even if the body and spirit is willing………… oh well I guess that’s what cold showers are for.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Well hope you and Stanley are getting your head around things and I do hope you find a good IC.

Well, Myrta, if you can be a "sex toy" for Stanley, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> then I bet he is willing to be your "sugar daddy." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

MELODY LANE- I guess so! As long as "my husband" is the the sugar daddy, it will be fine!
Dont you think?

Myrta

<small>[ November 16, 2004, 07:25 AM: Message edited by: Myrta ]</small>

KIWI J- Thank you so much for that pretty statement. Ihope so too! I have been with my husband since I was 13, the only natural thing would be to be with him till the end!

NOODLE- As soon as the open the book stores, I am there, to buy that Torn Asunder book, so I can learn about those crazy stages of the BS.
Sometimes it seems we are both going crazy here!

Thank you both

MYRTA

Myrta - Might be time to drop in at Idiotville. We will pet you and hug you and take care of you there.

BELIEVER----LOL, thats cute for you to say that. Maybe I will!!

Thanks!

Myrta

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Myrta:
<strong> MELODY LANE- I guess so! As long as "my husband" is the the sugar daddy, it will be fine!
Dont you think?

Myrta </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">All joking aside, I thought it was a little outlandish to label meeting a legitimate emotional need in such a derogatory manner [sex toy]. How insulting to Stanley. In other words, you are trying to paint yourself as a used victim because Stanley wants his needs met.

Any need can be spun in a derogatory manner if we don't want to meet that need. Stanley could say that he is just being used as a sugar daddy because you are soaking him for his money. In other words, you are no more a "sex toy" for meeting Stanley's needs than Stanley is a "sugar daddy" for providing financial support.

And I do think that if the SF need is up for negotiation on the POJA table, that ALL emotional needs should be up for POJA. Supporting his family should also be up for negotation, because Stanley might not feel like doing that anymore. Being a doctor is a high pressure job. Or does Stanley go to work whether he feels like it or not because he has an obligation to you? Perhaps a job as the Walmart greeter might be less stressful?

And the whole reason we are even having this conversation was nailed by Low Orbit:

"You refuse to do the things necessary to help him feel secure because of how he's expressing himself to you. I think you're doing this so that you can blame him further when things fail. You may not be doing it consciously, but I think that's what you're doing.

If you were serious about fixing this, you'd ask Stanley what you have to do to help him heal. Then you'd do it. No excuses, no retreat."

<small>[ November 16, 2004, 08:05 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

MELODYLANE_ WOW, this is crazy, derrogatory manner!! He is my husband and I can be his sex toy if he wants and I want. Give me a break.
He was not offended by my statement at all, he liked it.
I am not soaking him for his money, never have, never will. I am not that type. He is a doctor, but yet I look for bargains, dont use designer clothes, I am a very down to earth person, not vain at all with my needs.
I am not serioius about helping my husband? I think I am, I am dead serious. I want HIM to be as happy as he can be with ME, and if being his sex toy will give him that, I will be IT!!
Thanks for your post,MELODY!

MYRTA

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Myrta:
<strong> my husband? I think I am, I am dead serious. I want HIM to be as happy as he can be with ME, and if being his sex toy will give him that, I will be IT!!
Thanks for your post,MELODY!

MYRTA </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am glad for Stanley's sake that you are serious and didn't say it in a sarcastic manner. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />