Great answer Myrta! Any woman who raises five children (I'll bet it was almost singlehandedly) isn't "soaking her husband for money". It's good for you to stand up for yourself. You need to be true to your "voice", Mryta. You and Stanley just go and have fun <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> and don't worry about how it is perceived. Be you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Myrta....

I've known for awhile why you and I "mix it up" sometimes.

It's because we are a lot alike in many ways. I have a slight advantage on you because of my ~cough-cough~ age ... but trust me, I recognize your defensive mechanisms on a personal level. Been there, done that.

The things that you find annoying about me are things that probably remind you about some parts of yourself.

When you first started posting on recovery board, it did not take me very long to recognize our head-butting was not helpful to you Myrta. And, I said to you, "I am not the right person to help you." Because we are too much alike Myrta. We trample on each other's tender spots because we share some of the same traits. Not because we are too different.

I realized the depth of your insecurity when you posted somewhere "Pep doesn't like me.". Do you remember my reply? "Don't post a lie Myrta."

But, it was more comfortable for you to assume that I don't like you, when the truth is, that I disagree with some of your posts. Which , of course, has nothing to do with "liking" someone on a personal level. Disagreements are good Myrta. Not bad. Disagreements invite us to question ourselves more deeply.

If you assume that "Pep" ,a fictious name for an anonymous board member, does not like "Myrta" (another fictious, anonymous member) because there are disagreements between Pep and Myrta ... well, Myrta, you are flat out incorrect in that assumption.

Disagreement and heated debate does not equal dislike or disrespect. In fact, I think honest debate is a form of respect. Take this last remark, and rub some of it on your marriage relationship. Disagreements are OK, Myrta. In fact, respectful debate and disagreement is a healthy expression between you and Stanley.

What do you think?

Pep

PEPPERBAND- Thank you again for your post, for your explanation. I really appreciate you taking the time to clarify our differences.
You are correct about you are saying, I was taking EVERYTHING too personal at the beginning,now I know it was just different oppinions, that made me angry and got me into thinking things that I was not ready to face yet. But now, I think I am beginning to see the light and I can take different oppinions.
I should also say to you Sgt.Pepper, that I have read some of your other posts to other people, and some of them have really moved me. Especially the one about your mother. YOu are a very sensitve and caring woman,. YOur mom raised a very strong sensitive woman. I am sure she was very proud of you.
Again I thank you Pepper, and I apologize to you like I did to JL at one time. You ,him ,Knewbetter,AW, and others are remarkable people and I am grateful to all of you for taking the time to post to me and my husband.

Take care.

Myrta

P.S. I am scratching your name from my blk list.
You are in a different one.

What do you think???

<small>[ November 16, 2004, 10:16 AM: Message edited by: Myrta ]</small>

SORRY COMPUTER WAS ACTING UP!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

<small>[ November 16, 2004, 10:18 AM: Message edited by: Myrta ]</small>

SORRY ABOUT THAT, TRIPLE POSTS!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

<small>[ November 16, 2004, 10:14 AM: Message edited by: Myrta ]</small>

Pepper:

My 1st encounter with you was when I was pondering why I never had an affair. I remember I said I never thought about my wife when I decided not to pursue a married lady who gave me a very strong signal to have a relationship with her. I was confused because I thought the reason not to have an affair was love for the wife. However, that concept never entered my mid. I simply did not follow thru with the idea of engaging a married woman. You made me realize that to choose or not to choose to be faithful has nothing to do with one’s love for the spouse. To be honest, I think it is simply a matter of superego and not related to the depth of the love one has for the spouse. This was very helpful to me as we always assumed that if the wife has an affair she had lost all love and respect for the husband. But, it was the other way around------ they have lost love and respect for themselves and the decision is not really related to whether they love their spouse or not. That was very helpful for me!

As for SF:

I had the privilege of enjoying some last night.

I think my wife wanted to do it. I certainly did not chase her in bed.

I believe the pressure that my wife feels is not really related to whether she should give me SF or not. By now she can pretty much tell me what she wants and when she wants it and I will do whatever I need to do to make her happy. I think the pressure comes from within. She is insecure and has to deal with the idea that I am going to eventually divorce her. That is where the real pressure is. If she knew for sure there was no chance in hell I wanted to end the marriage SF would be relaxed and not surrounded by a pressure like atmosphere. Obviously I am not divorcing her!

As a result of the affair I got involved with Viagra and I rather like the effect. It gives me a terrific sense of power and confidence. It is not surprising why young men also use these drugs. However, I am going to use it less and less since I seemed to get by without them before D-day. However, I may save one or two to celebrate on the weekends----- he—he!!

It is always disheartening knowing that a person involved in an affair thinks about having sex 24/7. I guess one wants to recapture that with the wayward spouse. I have known my wife for over 35 years and still enjoy SF tremendously. That is an incredible achievement. I also know quite well that those who were involved in affairs find out their sex activity quickly goes in the toilet when they try to have a relationship in the open. My wife received a call from the prior OW of the OM. She proceeded to tell my wife that OM was a disaster in bed. I am sure he was good at the onset.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Myrta:
What do you think???</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think this:

Myrta, one time, you said, "Don't sweat the small stuff."

I used to say this too...

Then, one day in clinic ... A physician I really admire said this to me:

"God is in the details."

and it blew me away...

But, a saying that always makes me smile:

"Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug"

Just love that one...

Today I think I am the bug, but God has not thrown me against the windshield .... just yet.

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

PEPPERBAND- <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> I really dont understand what you are trying to say here, why are you the bug today? Explain this one to me, if you may!
My first language is spanish and sometimes I just dont get it. Dont see the analogy of the bug and you.

Thanks

Myrta

Yo hablo espanol poquito. Pero, estoy muy estupido en espanol. En restarante, yo hablo espanol perfectamente! Arroz con pollo, ensalada, tamale, cervesa, empanada.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

OK... um, I think it was in a Country-Western song... you know, when you are driving along in your car and suddenly ~whap~ a big old bug flies into your windshield and gets squished!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Well, in life, sometimes you (or myself) are the bug ~squish~ and sometimes you (or myself) are the windshield .... it's a less than perfect metaphore describing how one day we are a big shot (important) and in other circumstances we are no more significant than a bug getting squished.

Today, I am insignificant, like a bug, but I have not met the windshield face-to-face.... So I am simply a pest <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ... but you already knew that about me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

By the way ... I have a Basque last name (by marrige)

Pep (sorry my Spanish sucks so much... I love speaking Spanish, but I often confuse people because I choose incorrect words ... for instance, the word for marriage I confuse with the word for tired... you can see how this confuses my patients!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> )

<small>[ November 16, 2004, 03:41 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

PEPPERBAND- LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I got it now. No, today you are not a pest at all, you are allright!
So, you have a spanish last name by your husband? cool. Have you been to Spain?
I can see your confusion about some spanish words, very similar. Cansado-tired casado-married. Just one n right at the beginning takes you from tired to married <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
But its pretty good if you know your stuff to order spanish food. Thats very important, to know what you are eating <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> .
Thank you for explaining that one to me.

MYRTA

<small>[ November 16, 2004, 04:10 PM: Message edited by: Myrta ]</small>

Myrta,

Stanley and you have been together since you were teenagers, over 35 years.

Where on earth would he go to? Who would he go to?

Face it, the two of you are stuck with each other. Now, what are you both going to do about it?

Not to be disrespectful, Stanley but I've been pondering this Viagra dependency thing...

I keep seeing what I think you might look like, grabbing your hair and screaming...

OH MY GOD! I HAVE A MONKEY ON MY....

<ROFLMAO!!! nyuk, nyuk>

Low

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Where on earth would he go to? Who would he go to? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have nowhere to go!

I was determined to get a divorce on D-day and then realized I had nowhere to go. I don't know how to live by myself. I don't know any good looking chicks!

So here I am!

Seriously at my age divorce is not the best solution. I had a great run and and one mistake towards the end is not enough to break the marriage. In addition, my wife is also motivated to stay married.

However, I have seen the end of the tunnel and I don't think I could stand a second incident. So I have my fingers crossed and pray for NC on a daily basis.

<small>[ November 16, 2004, 05:10 PM: Message edited by: Stanley568 ]</small>

Stanley and Myrta
Just want to say I am thinking of you. The two of you sound a lot better now. This is a great thread. A lot of the issues here are felt by many on the road to recovery. Thankyou for your honest discussion here.

The poster who said in the end this is not really just about sex is so right. It is more about learning to explore what the feelings are and mean that come up. And in learning to listen to your partner.

I have got a lot fom this thread.
Good luck
C&S

CONFUSED&SCARED- Thank you so much for your words. I hope this thread really helps other couples that are going thru the same issues.
It has help me a lot, because I really can express what I feel better here, then when my husband reads it, we can expand in what bother us.
This is very very difficult, what we are going thru. I swear that if anyone knew the hell that an affair causes NO ONE will have them!!
Thank you again for your post.

Myrta

KNEWBETTER- Those are such pretty concepts in that book Surviving Fights w/Bros.and Sisters.
It very well be applied like you said to a husband and wife. I think all relationships that involved two people have basically the same concepts, of respect,caring for one another. We do have to be less selfish, not only me, my husband too. We tend to get too egocentric and forget what the other person really wants and stands for. Is taking a bit long to realize this, but thank God, I am seeing the light.
Last night I surprised him in bed and he got sooooooo intimidated with me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> He thought nothing whats going to happen, since it was not either one of his favorite days ,Friday and Saturday. But right away, he got rid of his intimidation and joined me in the game. He was very happy. Everything has been going really sweet today,
Knewbetter-I appreciate you understand and accept what I told Melody. I swear to you, I had never seen myhusband as my sugar daddy,just because he is a doctor. I take very good care of his money, always has, always will. And I also think that any kind of game married people like to play, it is accepted, as long as they both agree. Dont you think? Well, I guess you do.
Knewbetter, where do you live? Do you live in the east coast?
Take care!!
Thank you for the hugs <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I got them!!

MYRTA

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Myrta:
<strong>
Knewbetter-I appreciate you understand and accept what I told Melody. I swear to you, I had never seen myhusband as my sugar daddy,just because he is a doctor. I take very good care of his money, always has, always will. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">sigh..........I never said that Stanley was your "sugar daddy." I was saying just the opposite. I said it would be just as ridiculous to view him as your sugar daddy because he meets your FS need as it would to view yourself as a "sex toy" because you meet his SF need. I was using a preposterous example of SPIN to show how preposterous it is to spin SF in the manner which you were. I was trying to show that any need can be spun into something sinister and selfish if a person is so inclined.

<small>[ November 16, 2004, 08:25 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

Melody- Ok, maybe I misunderstood you then. Sorry if I did. But I thought you were implying I saw my husband as my "sugar daddy". I think considering myself his sex toy is a fun thing for our sexual intimacy. It will bring a new twist and excitement to our marriage, especially now that we are going thru such turmoil recovering from my stupid affair.
Anyways he likes me to be his "toy". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
Sorry again if I misunderstood your words,Melody.
Take care.

MYRTA

That's ok, Myrta, I probably could have been clearer! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I think the sex toy angle is wonderful! Good girl! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hi Myrta, I'm SO happy to hear your good news!! Excellent!! I'm so glad you and Stanley had fun. Games are great and anything goes...I'm sure you'll think up some good new ones. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Did you get a chance to look at that site yet? Verrrry interesting.

I'm in California so I'm cooking dinner right when you all on the East Coast are posting after your dinners. If you ever want to talk off board I'll give you my email addy, let me know. KB