Hi Knewbetter===I have to use my imagination big time now, to make my hubby very happy, so I will let you know. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
No, I have not seen that site yet, but surely today I will try to see it. I think my husband tried to do it, but he said you have to register and he didn't.
What part of California you live? My oldest child,a son, lives close to Hollywood Blvd.two blocks away from the Chinese theater. We were there to visit in July. We went last year as well, we like California to go for vacation.

I would love to e-mail with you!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Take care Knewbetter, thanks for everything.

MYRTA

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Myrta:
Have you been to Spain?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh Myrta... now you've gotten me to confess something from my past...

Yes, I have been to Spain. I confess, I could not understand much, maybe every second or third word spoken in Spain. I learned California Spanish ~~~~otherwise known as Spanglish. Castillian Spanish sounded like lisping to my ears. A beautiful city Madrid.

OK... my past secret ... in the 1770's, I was a stewardess for Pan Am. The world was my playground in the 70's. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

Pep

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> OK... my past secret ... in the 1770's </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LOL...She's old, but not that old.

I think she means in the 1970's!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Susan:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> OK... my past secret ... in the 1770's </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LOL...She's old, but not that old.

I think she means in the 1970's!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Geeze Pep, that was TOO FUNNY!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ November 17, 2004, 03:43 PM: Message edited by: knewbetter ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Susan:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> OK... my past secret ... in the 1770's </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LOL...She's old, but not that old.

I think she means in the 1970's!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ummmmm, is that what is meant by "in my previous life?"

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Pep,

A stew for Pan Am???? In the 70's, my my. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Those were the days when flying was FUN. Especially as a batchelor. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I really do miss those days. Being in my late 20's, single, and traveling the world.

Pep, did you notice that this brought Susan out of the woodwork??? I am thinking she has a story to tell what do you think? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Myrta, you have some o.. Ah! seasoned posters on this thread now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

One thing I need to clarify Myrta, opening up to Stanely, does not mean "giving up". It does NOT mean he calls all of the shots. The idea is that you two will become a closer partnership and protect one another better as well as nuturing one another better.

The thing that is difficult right now is dealing with the A which is one task and opening up in order to improve the marriage which is addressing something else all together. In the last task you are addressing what your H preceives as a reluctance do to childhood issues to fully connect with him. This is not an A problem but may have planted a few seeds over the years.

Myrta you must remember one thing. The goal here is not to just "survive" the affair, but to rebuild the marriage into something that is better for each of you than the previous marriage was. So you are getting advice on two levels. One to handle the fallout from the A, and the other to raise the level of the marriage so that YOU and Stanley are really really happy with each other.

Frankly, from what I have seen here, surviving the A is the easy part. Rebuilding a good marriage takes a lot of work, care, and love on the part of both of you.


Must go. Listen to that exStew she has a way of getting to things that other people miss.

God Bless,

JL

PEPPERBAND---Wow, impressive, you are a renaissance woman!!! A stewardess in the 1700! I mean in the 1970s <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . It must had been really fun. How many years you were working as such?
Now you are a nurse? Hmm, what other talents and professions are there to tell?
Spanglish is a very common form of communications in California,yes. NOt very pretty sounding,you are neither talking spanish correctly or english.

Take care.

Myrta

JUSTLEARNING- Do you honestly think that I am going to let Stanley call all the shots? You know I am too oppinionated <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> even if I want to,thats not the way I am.
I am being more open to him, trying to trust letting myself go with him. Showing him as much as possible my love for him.
Just now him and I were talking online, and he said some things I did not liked, because he always tries to find something amiss <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> . But he called me on the phone and we talked <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> .
What do you suggest should be my approach with him? How slow or fast should I show my changes?

Take care

Myrta

OOOOOOOOOOOK!

My ears were ringing and I find out Myrta is talking about me.

This is the deal. Lately I have been afflicted with some movies. Not the actual copulation movies------- I saw those many times and cannot bring them back again since I hate to be nauseous. I am talking about movies doing more ordinary things such as cuddling, holding hands, embracing, ect, ect.

So I am somewhat tormented by this over the last few days and I mentioned it to Myrta online. She immediately thought I was saying these things to put her down and make her feel bad. Yep------ good old Myrta is still there. So I tried to tell her I mentioned those things because they cause an ache in my heart and I am simply looking for a remedy to feel better. It is that simple, nothing else was on my mind. I was only looking for reassurance.

KNEWBETTER- I almost missed your post,it got squeezed in between Peppers and and ISgirls.
Thank you for the e-mail address. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Take care

MYRTA

JUST LEARNING=== I need your help here!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
Today I was waiting for my husband when he got home from work, ready for him <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> .
I told him, that I wanted to make love with him when he got home. Welllllll.......he got intimidated by my proposal <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> .
I thought he would like it, but yet he acts like I am this vixen that he does not know. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
JL...why is he getting intimidated by my sexual advances? First he complains,because I dont initiate,then I do, and he can't!! He was giving me excuses,no viagra in his system, he likes it at night,he likes to chase,blah,blah.
Now, how should I take this JL>???

Your answer please.

MYRTA

Myrta,

If I was a bit more sure of your sense of humor I have a great answer. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> But, I don't want to offend you or him. So I will stick to what you wrote. Given what you wrote, I am guessing you are seeing something he hs been trying to tell you. He fears he is NOT good enough. You still don't realize how much power you have do you? Myrta, look at your words and you tell me how you would interpret what you have written </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> JUST LEARNING=== I need your help here!!
Today I was waiting for my husband when he got home from work, ready for him .
I told him, that I wanted to make love with him when he got home. Welllllll.......he got intimidated by my proposal .
I thought he would like it, but yet he acts like I am this vixen that he does not know.
JL...why is he getting intimidated by my sexual advances? First he complains,because I dont initiate,then I do, and he can't!! He was giving me excuses,no viagra in his system, he likes it at night,he likes to chase,blah,blah.
Now, how should I take this JL>???

Your answer please.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My only good answer is that you should take this with kindness in your heart. It is NOT a put down of you, but a manifestation of his concerns and fears. He really has been hurt Myrta and it would seem he is not very sure of himself. I think you should cuddle with him and NOT give up doing what you did, when you feel like doing it. He needs to get used to you being a bit more open with him.

I would bet he was surprised and intimidate, but he'll get used to it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

You are doing just fine Myrta. If you do worry about this, ask him what he was feeling and tell him you want HIM to open up and be honest with you. Does your behavior worry or hurt him? Does it trigger something? If so, let's talk about it and face it. Just general questions will help.

By the way Myrta you keep working on this, but remember some of what he wants is very subtle. I think what he wants from you often nothing more than how you feel about him. I think you may be mistaking his need for you to open up, with spilling your guts about every little thing, when I suspect he wants affirmation from you that he is doing good with you and that you love him. If that is in your heart that is what he needs to hear.

Must go,

God Bless,

JL

JL- I have a good sense of humor, go ahead, tell me that great answer. I want to hear it!!!
I am really not spilling my guts to him. I am talking more, yes,but I am not telling him every little thing that comes to mind!!
But why is he unsure if I initiate? But yet, if he inititates and he clearly sees that I dont want, he does not look intimidated, he looks angry with me.
I love cuddling, sometimes thats all I want to do. But if I touch my body with his, he thinks I want more than cuddling <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
I tell him whats in my heart when he asks me. I tell him that I love him, want to be married to him.
I know how much I have hurt him,I know this,JL. I wish I could erase what I did, but I can't. Its done, but its over too. I want good things to start happening in my marriage consistenly. So we can both heal faster.
Later on, he was laughing , telling me that was the new Myrta, because I said here that I was going to change and be more expressive.
I dont know though, I think he likes it when I resist.
Its kind of confussing.

Thank you for taking the time to answer,JL

MYRTA

JL- Well, today my husband admitted that he feels intimidated by me. He feels that he has to prove h imself, he thinks he is not going to be able to perform well, he thinks he cannot function without wiagra, and so on,and so on.
What if he feels like this forever?
How long will this last if is only a temporary transient thing? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
His behaviour makes me intimidated, because I feel like I cannot do anything right!! I wish things were normal,its very stressful this situation. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Take care JL

MYRTA

P.S. I saw that you were declared some kind of
Queen in your thread. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Myrta,

When he told you these things did you hold him? Did you take his hand and tell him what you think of him? If you did keep doing it and oh! keep initiating.

You asked what my first thought was when you asked "How should I take this?" And the thought was "lying down". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Not so funny today but I was tired last night.

Myrta, do you realize what you have found out? Do you realize that your H is opening up to you? That he is admitting he needs you help and he needs to heal? That is what he needs from you as well.

You two open up and tell him your feelings about him in an honest way. Tell him if you desire him or really want him. He needs to know what you think about him, that is what all of this "opening" talk is about. Now is it so hard to tell him your thoughts on these matters? He won't attack you for helping him, for being honest with him, for telling him how you feel.

He needs this because he was so clearly wrong before and he does NOT trust himself. You think it is all about him trusting you, but as you are seeing it is about trusting himself, about you trusting him as much as anything. Odd isn't it?

This is the part that Harley really got right. The affects of affair are NOT intuitive and the person you expect to be hurt is but not for the reasons one would think, and the WS is hurt as well, and often not for the reasons one would think, hence the emphasis on communications so that you two can help each other. As you do you will draw closer and closer. This is not pressure Myrta, it is really just kindness, the kindness needed most...from those that you love.

You need it and he needs it. Think about this and I know you will see things in a clearer light as sort of a whole, not just events.

God Bless,

JL

JUSTLEARNING- NO, I did not hold his hand, but I sort of told him what I thought <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> .
I was a bit hurt that he did not respond the way I thought he would. As soon as I saw that he was not so interested I gave up, and went downstairss to cook dinner <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> .
JL-I do want both of us to open up with each other with no fear of being rejected. I want us to be loving,yes.
You know one thing that its bothering me,JL?
Lately my husband has been visiting another site that its about OM-OWs. This depresses him greatly but yet he goes everyday. He showed me the site, I did not like it.
What do you think of that?

Thank you for your help in this JL>YOu are great!!

MYRTA

Myrta,

You said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">NO, I did not hold his hand, but I sort of told him what I thought [Frown] .
I was a bit hurt that he did not respond the way I thought he would.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You have heard my lecture on LB's and specifically disrespectful judgements, DJ's, right? Well what you did was a super DJ. He did not react as YOU expected and so you walked away. If he did that to you what would you think?? You would be really hurt. You hurt him and you are the one that supposedly trying to rebuild, right? Think about this carefully. Myrta he feels as he feels, don't "expect" him to react as you would. You are asking the same thing of him aren't you?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> As soon as I saw that he was not so interested I gave up, and went downstairss to cook dinner [Confused] .</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Man, Myrta do you miss golden opportunities. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Here you say that you feel that all cuddling should NOT lead to sex. You have turned him down and say you don't feel YOU should be pressured. Yet, when the show is on the other foot, what do you do? You walk away hurt. What would have helped you both is if you had heard that he did not want and then you walked up to him, gave him a kiss and a hug and said something like "that's alright honey, there is always tomorrow" and then gave another kiss and a smile.

Isn't that you want from him? Understanding. He needs it from you Myrta. I know you expect HIM to be the strong one. I suspect you don't like that he seems weak to you right now. But, you are missing something very important. He could have left and yet he was strong enough to stay and do his best. He just needs your help that is all.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">JL-I do want both of us to open up with each other with no fear of being rejected. I want us to be loving,yes.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well then act loving toward him. Be kind in your responses to him and he will learn from you. Understand that sometimes his feelings are not about you but about himself and I will get to this in a moment.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You know one thing that its bothering me,JL?
Lately my husband has been visiting another site that its about OM-OWs. This depresses him greatly but yet he goes everyday. He showed me the site, I did not like it.
What do you think of that?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think he is very depressed and the pain that going to that site gives him is better than dealing with the pain in his heart. I know he is a physcian but I do think he might want to consider something for depression. I think him going to that site is a form of self-medication and it is probably NOT healthy for him. Those are my opinions.

Myrta, you really need to step back here and develop a plan of action. Your short term instincts are not helping you. Think about how you know he likes to be treated. When you are confused think about how you like to be treated. Think about all he has told you about his fears, his worries. Then make a plan to address these things. Make a plan on how you want to react to certain situations and statements. How you will react if you try to initiate and he says no. Perhaps you ask him if he is tired, or triggered, or got something else worrying him. Think about when he likes sex best (I know the weekends), and plan to do something you would like and enjoy in times he would to.

Myrta, you need to really sit down and think about this. I truely believe your heart is in the right place, but sometimes your reactions are about you and not about him. For example he explained to you his performance fears. He fears without the might V he will not be able to perform, and if he does he will not satisfy you or you will think of OM. I am betting the movies may still be playing in his head. It doesn't seem unusual at this point in recovery. He gave you all of this information, and all of the informatin strongly suggest that him declining your offer was NOT a rejection of you at all. The man loves you. He is rejecting himself. Does this make sense to you?

What he needs is for you to see that a lot of what he is dealing with is about HIM, not you. He needs your help and encouragement and as he works through all of this he will return it Myrta. You are planting seeds in the garden and you need to tend to them, water them, weed the bed, and they will grow.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

JUSTLEARNING- <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />
I feel awful of how I reacted , now that I read it in front of me. That was truly ugly behaviour from my part. I was not sweet at all with him. I was bad, I behaved like a b....!!
I will really try to make ammends to this. Inmediatly when those kinds of things happen, I should force myself into his position, and see what will be my reaction, what will hurt me or not. I am trying JL, I really am!!
Do you really think he is so depressed? I dont think he is in such bad state right now. He is eating well, not having night-cold sweats, like at the beginning. But I will tell him and see what he thinks.
THANK YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!
YOu really are the master of advise!!!

MYRTA

Myrta, you are doing so well.

See, I told you we were fond of JL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> The old dinosaur. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Tell Stanley, FROM ME, to keep away from that other site. If he thinks he's going to gain insight into the FWW's mind by going there, he couldn't be more wrong. He's talked to genuine FWW's on here and he's also got you. A lot of the guys on here would be over the moon to have what he's got right now. A loving w (with a great sense of humour) who is determined to make their marriage work.

Jen