Myrta,

Time and patience are the keys. Just calm down and the let the rollercoaster run its course. All you have to do is keep being kind and loving and you will see the peaks and valleys flatten out. Myrta, TIME is a key ingredient here and you are at about the 6 month mark. It is about this time that the BS is asking themselves very hard questions and not necessarily coming up with good answers.

If he is normal and it sounds as if he is, then he is questioning his role in the marriage, is there someone who will love him and be honest, is there someone who... It is a phase that it seems most need to pass through. So hang in there and continue to love him. Here is where the patience comes in, you need to have a lot of it right now.

So just repeat the mantra T&P, T&P, T&P,... Ohmmmmm. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> You two seem to be progressing normally right now. Keep talking and gradually this is very likely to work through.

God Bless,

JL

JUST LEARNING-- That seems very unlikely right now. He is just too down,he does not do anything anymore, not play golf,music,nothing. He is just feeling down on himself, thinking that we are never going to get better.
Do you really think we are going to make it? You can tell me the truth. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
This rollercoaster is way too changing and crazy now. I am getting scared and very doubtful again.
I feel like going away for no one to find me ever again. If it was not for my twelve year old that needs me here, I would go away . I am not making him happy, no matter what I do, or tell him.

Thank you JL

MYRTA

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Myrta:
he did not sleep and he thinks he is never going to be happy again with me. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I said the same thing to my H Myrta.

And here we are nearly 9 years later happily enjoying the fruits of our new marriage.

Something my H said to me:

"I will do whatever it takes for as long as it takes to make this right."

Myrta, you're going to have to train yourself to tolerate uncertainty for awhile.

Manage your own anxieties. That's your job right now. Stan has his to work on ... you manage yours.

Stan's despair makes you uncomfortable. But Myrta ... this is the anatomy of recovery .. raw feelings are to be dealt with ... this is real recovery. If there were none of this ... then you should worry.
Pep

Myrta,

You of all people should know that I am not just saying it. He is depressed that is clear and you cannot cheer him out of that. He must work through it and/or obtain some meds to handle this short term. You just keep being a good W and friend and he will come through this. Yes, he is down, the holiday season often does this to people when they a bit depressed.

It is not something you can talk him out of, but perhaps you can take him for some walks on a nice COLD night. He will need exercise and he needs time to process this. Myrta, he lost a lot emotionally and he is feeling it. But, he can and very likely will heal from this. You see he spent the first months fighting for the marriage. Now he is dealing with himself and yes you can help by being there but this is a fight he must do himself as well.

This is the hard part of this stuff Myrta. This is where the consequences become clearer and must be faced. So hang in there and you make sure that HE KNOWS you love him and want this to work. Sometimes, just taking his hand or touching him while sitting together will be much more important than anything you can say.

God Bless,

JL

I am getting scared and very doubtful again.

How are you going to manage your emotions Myrta? I mean this as an actual question (not as a rhetorical question)... WHAT actions can you do (when you feel scared) to calm yourself down?

I feel like going away for no one to find me ever again.

Running away is not going to calm your emotions in the long run. What would a woman with extraordinary courage do if she were in your shoes Myrta? Figure that out ... then become that woman.

If it was not for my twelve year old that needs me here, I would go away .

Oops ! Wrong answer. Stan is going to test your loyalty to the marriage more than once Myrta. So, it is your best interest to figure out how to pass the loyalty test early in the recovery process.

I am not making him happy, no matter what I do, or tell him.

This is not the time to seek happiness Myrta. Any fool can be happy. Now is the time to seek wisdom and strength. Search your values ... and use the tools you have learned to become stronger under adversity.

Pep

Myrta

don't you dare run away!! its not fair to leave me here when I'll be like a beached whale in a few months!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
And it won't make Stanley happy either don't even think it!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

I do think reading Stanley posts he is having a rollercoaster ride right now. It seems hes ok for 1 to 2 weeks then the next weekend he crashes. But before he was doing that inside one week!! I remember that a bit even if I was foggy.

Its getting a little bit better and he is still sharing even his dark sad thoughts with you. That IS a good sign.
When he emails you with things like that I think Stanley is actually seeking reassurance from YOU that you do understand, that you are here for him, and he can feel safe.
I'm not really good at that Myrta myself so I know how HARD it is to say it the right way.
I think it would be good to say to him or email him with something like I sent to Aussie....

My dear love/ my one & true H I can understand why you would feel so sad and lost, I know I have led us to this dark place but we both can work our way out into a loving caring and safe place for both of us together. Lean on me if you need to I am here for you. I'll do anything for you to ease your pain just ask me and I will do it. If you need to yell and scream at me then yell all you want. I deserve worse but at the same time though I don't feel I am worthy I want your love back, I want us back........" and so on. Write what is true for you.
I think it may be required a few times, perhaps a lot of times. I feel its a bit like the questions they asked, remember that time?? Same questions over and over and over !!

I think here Stanley (& I hope Aussie still) is wanting again confirmation that you LOVE him, only him, without reserve, & nothing will ever again get between you ever agsin. I think he wants to hear the genuine feelings you have for him over and over and over and over and over until he no longer feels sad however long that may be.

Don't give up Myrta, he does love you, he doesn't want you going away he just is struggling with how to shed his pain. Are Stanley and you seeing a IC or MC at all. This really helped me and Aussie while he went.

Now your lovely 24 yr old daughter, well I'd let her get on her feet if that was required and yes I'd charge something. I paid my MOM also. We are doing this with my DD as well. As she gets what is called Aust Study which is from the government so she can go to Uni, & its not much, she pays just a little bit $20 & Aussie & I add $40 a fn to it and we are secretly banking it for her. So in a year or so, or if she does get married, then she will have a nice little nest egg!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
I just think its important they know there are no free rides in this world.
(ok yes I cheat a bit & slip her a few dollars now & then, shoot me...Lol <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> )

I AM SCARED THAT I AM NOT GOING
TO BE ABLE TO MAKE MY HUSBAND
HAPPY AGAIN.

I AM SCARED THAT OUR MARRIAGE IS
NOT GOING TO SURVIVE THE HORRIFIC
ACTS THAT I DID!!

I AM SIMPLY SCARED AND IT SEEMS
THAT I AM NOT ABLE TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT
IT!!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> MYRTA <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

<small>[ November 29, 2004, 12:15 PM: Message edited by: Myrta ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong> WHAT actions can you do (when you feel scared) to calm yourself down?

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">re-asking...

PEPPERBAND- It seems like I cannot take any action anymore. It looks like all the "stamina" and energy of my body its gone!!! <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />
I thought I was a stronger woman, but it looks like I am not!! I am weak and stupid!!

MYRTA

You only feel weak and stupid ... feelings are transient and not fact.

You will be less frightened when you come up with a plan of action.

What one thing can you do right now to calm yourself down?

Here's what worked for me... I'd go on a power walk. Or... I would take a hot bath.

Pep

Myrta. As a BS all I want is for my Squid to love me enough to take the actions, even if they are uncomfortable or inconvenient for her, that rebuild our M and make me feel safe in our relationship once more.

I am sure Stanley is no different although his needs for safety may be different.

OK, my ears were ringing!

First of all, I simply had a bad night and could not sleep very well. I was stressed with recurring thoughts about the A. Up until last night I thought I was doing great.

The problem I see is that now we don’t have a normal relationship. I am not acting like my old self and perhaps the change in behavior is causing Myrta a lot of stress.

Since I have given up all extracurricular activities I tend to dedicate a lot of time to Myrta and perhaps this is perceived as some sort of pressure. But, in reality, I have nothing else to do. I have tried going back to my activities, but my mind is not ready. I cannot even work out in the gym. I think I have been back to the gym three times in six months. I played golf only once in the last six months and have no interest in anything.

I have also become needy. In the emotional needs questionnaire I rate SF, affection and conversation very high. Myrta does not rate those like I do. Her number one EN is admiration; she said she did not need much affection.

In the old days I was a VERY low maintenance husband and NEVER placed any demands on my wife. I was a happy camper with whatever I got and never complained. I know this is a major shock to Myrta and I am very embarrassed for my new status. I certainly hate to be needy, that is not me. I am the poster child for type B personality---- very low key.

To some extent Myrta is exaggerating my behavior. I believe her words reflect hype reactivity to my new personality. In more than one occasion she has said she would love to go back to pre-affair times.

Part of my inability to leave the depression behind has to do with how I discovered the affair. On D-day when I crashed Myrta’s email OM had sent a collection of the best emails Myrta had written. These emails praised everything you can think off about OM and contained the proverbial soul mate statements and well as promises of deep love. If I had discovered the affair with a cell phone bill or just ONE email things would have been different. However, on D-day I was saturated with a HUGE amount of affair romance via email and it is very hard to get around that. The duration of the affair also makes me believe that Myrta is in withdrawal, even though she denies this.

BTW, all I want from Myrta is support. I just want to feel better about myself. It is rather simple.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> If he is normal and it sounds as if he is, then he is questioning his role in the marriage </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is it! In fact, two days ago I was talking to my wife and expressed my concerns as to why she was staying married to me. This is a valid concern from my part because she loved OM.

So I asked her:

Would she would still be around if we had no children?

Would she stay if OM had same profession and economical status?

Would she stay if she could avoid the turn moil and embarrassment of replacing me with OM?

I have the sneaky suspicion that she would be with OM if everything was equal. I don’t want to stay married with someone who chooses me because it is convenient. I struggle with this all the time and the symptoms worsen when I don‘t receive a lot of affection. It is a very sad and pathetic existence.

<small>[ November 29, 2004, 01:50 PM: Message edited by: Stanley568 ]</small>

Stanley, sorry you're in a slump. One thing to remember is that you CAN be in control of your thoughts, rather than your thoughts being in control of you. Every WS has to go through the process of retraining their minds and it really isn't any different for the BS. Your goal is a healthy, happy RECOVERED marriage so ask yourself next time you are tempted to excessively dwell on the emails or whatever...is this helpful to your recovery or is it hurtful?

I'd also encourage you to take up at least some of your physical activities whether you "feel" like it or not, it will help your mood. You are very like my H, low maintanence turned high by the A. Thankfully he has calmed down, it was rather exhausting for me for a while there! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> It's an adjustment for both parties and it can be done.

You need to do your part Stanley...controling your thoughts is a difficult mental exercise but it is possible. You have to decide what supports your recovery and what undermines it. Best to you both, KB

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Stanley568:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> If he is normal and it sounds as if he is, then he is questioning his role in the marriage </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is it! In fact, two days ago I was talking to my wife and expressed my concerns as to why she was staying married to me. This is a valid concern from my part because she loved OM.

So I asked her:

Would she would still be around if we had no children?

Would she stay if OM had same profession and economical status?

Would she stay if she could avoid the turn moil and embarrassment of replacing me with OM?

I have the sneaky suspicion that she would be with OM if everything was equal. I don’t want to stay married with someone who chooses me because it is convenient. I struggle with this all the time and the symptoms worsen when I don‘t receive a lot of affection. It is a very sad and pathetic existence. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have felt the same way Stanley. I still feel sad and pathetic when I do not get the amount of affection that I want. I feel let down when she tells me that I have done something wonderful for her (without meaning to, just being myself) and then I think 'ima get me some tonight' and then tonight comes an poof - nothing.

Do you know enough about OM to make the judgements you have made? Does he have some other fatal flaws that your wife has seen and not told you about?

Just last night during one of those blasted phone calls to OM I heard WW tell him that he is not the long term relationship type but that I was. I learned that she needs a playmate (well heck we all do) and she learned that I have tried but her attituted about child raizing has interferred.

Could it be something like that? Have you asked your WW?

For me hearing her say that it easier for me to know she is possibly going to choose to stay with ME (I already know that she will not be with OM). It also made me angry because I have tried to get her to let us get out of the house with out the kids.

Anyway, for me if he and I were equal she would still stay with me wouldn't she. If me and OM were equal she would already have what she needs and there would have been no reason for her to stray.

OM ended up having way to many flaws for any near healthy women to overlook. It just sux it took WW so long to see enough of them. I have ended up having way to many favorable, changable behaviours for her to overlook.

I hope things can end up in a way that you will get what you want and for both of you to be able to get over the resentments.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">BTW, all I want from Myrta is support. I just want to feel better about myself. It is rather simple.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Stan ... describe (in detail) what support behavior looks like so Myrta will have not one single doubt of what she needs to be doing.

Stan, ... You cannot appoint Myrta to be in charge of how you feel about yourself, or any of your other feelings. You own responsibility for your own feeling, and manage your feelings.

As Myrta struggles to manage her anxiety.

Emotional fusion is a very wrong turn.

Pep

THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR GREAT INPUT TO OUR DILEMMA!

I have told Stanley many times that I stay with him because I love him, because he is the father of our children,because we have been married 30 years, (we have so many memories together),because he was and he is the love of my life. I started to go out with him when I was barely a teen!!
He is not second choice in my pick at all!! He is the better man by far.
The OM is not homeless, he has a business,a profession too, he could support me like Stanley does. I am not staying with Stanley because of financial reasons. The OM is not the father of my children, Stanley is. The OM has been unfaithful to his wife when he was married, Stanley hasn't!!
The OM has an annal personality, Stanley doesn't!
I could go on forever, why my husband is the better man, my number one choice!! But yet no matter what I tell him, he bases his beliefs in what he read, that I wrote while I was deep in the fog!! I am NOT in the fog now, and I would never write those things. That was not me at all!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
Pepperband, it is a lot of pressure indeed, that he is making me solely responsible for his well being and happiness. It makes me very scared and anxious. I have my own guilt and crap to work with as well. If I dont say the right word or do the perfect action, he sulks and gets depressed. Its big pressure.
Last night we went to the 6PM mass, and while I was going I felt like I was going to get crazy, literrary crazy. I felt like I could not take so much pressure anymore, from everyone. My daughter moving in, demanding so much attention, and also my husband on the other side. Then another daughter that is having problems with her husband,etc,etc. I feel like I am going to crumble and not be able to function normally anymore. And that scares me, because I had always been able to be so level headed, making decisions, doing what has to be done without even thinking about it. Now, it seems I CANNOT DO ANYTHING!!
A bubble bath is not going to do the trick for me this time. The tension that I feel, can be cut with a knife!!I have never taken anything for my nerves but maybe I am in need of some.
My husband needs to get busy doing stuff, exercising, gym,doing things around the house. He just sits and looks at me with sad puppy eyes.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
The e-mail that he wrote me today was very sad,depressive. He told me, I see my future very bleak, I dont see any happiness ahead of me. How should I feel?
I give him lots of affection, I am playful when is not sullen and scares me away, I give him SF. But yet he feels so down!!

MYRTA

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Stan, ... You cannot appoint Myrta to be in charge of how you feel about yourself, or any of your other feelings. You own responsibility for your own feeling, and manage your feelings.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks Pepper-------- that is why I describe my existence as pathetic. I have never been dependent on anyone regarding my self-esteem. It is terrible to feel needy and depressed if you don’t get what you want. The only thing that makes me feel OK is affection, SF, and conversation.

I have tried to do other things and to act normal when there is nothing going on. However, it is hard for me to fake it. My wife knows right away if I am not feeling well. She can tell if I am 1% off from my normal personality. That is why I could not get away with having an affair. Myrta would know about it as soon as I walked into the house. She knows me very well---- she can read my mind. OTOH, I am not good at that sort of thing. I am consumed by doubt all the time.

There are other stressors lurking:

The OM who resides in the same city where my mother in law lives is trying to become a friend of the family. He is now calling my mother in law regularly and the other day had lunch with my brother in law to offer a job to a nephew of Myrta.

All of a sudden OM wants to be Mr. Nice Guy to all of Myrta’s relatives back home. Of course, they have no clue as to why OM is showing so much interest in the family. I can imagine Myrta and I visiting her family in Xmas and running into the OM when Myrta’s brother throws a party. Myrta is always kind when she describes the flaws of the OM, but his behavior is that of a person with no scruples------ a very selfish individual.

Stanley, any thoughts on what I said? Pep's advice dovetails on that actually. KB

Stanley - If you have stopped enjoying things you used to enjoy, the depression is lingering. I forget if you can take anti-D's or not, but if so, take them.

The difference is like night and day. I'm happy as a clam, and my WH chose the OW!!!!!! But life is good again.

And by the way, I caught WH and OW in bed together. Talk about images.