AndrewA,
H and I talked some last night over the phone. He was going on and on about how I am not considerate of him, blah, blah, blah. How my family is so disfunctional (in his eyes- yet his is great <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ). Any way we talked. I stood up for myself- H was not sure what to do with me. he was upset- yet at work, and so we actually got some of our views across, and he did not hang up on me that is a rareity. However he did bring up the OW, and that made me see red instantly- <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> . He was saying how he had a fix to all our problems, but I made her move out:eek: <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> . Yeah because I should have let her continue to live in my house, with me paying the bills with her making the moves on MY HUSBAND? I told him I could not talk with him at that point and I hung up. H called me back all confused. Wanted to know why I got upset <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I told him that he needed to delete her phone number- he said he already did, I asked if it was that easy to lie to me nowadays. He asked when I looked last, I told him Sunday- he then tried to tell me that I must not have looked that close because he had deleted it. I said no you just changed her name to "bob". He almost laughed!!! and asked how is it I know everything, how did I figure that out so fast??? I told him I was not Stupid !!!

Okay I am rambleing on here. How ever I stood my ground was very adimate that things HAD to change or I was done. I was unable to give him the letter I wrote last night because I did not finish it before the baby woke up sick and I spent a good chunk of the night rocking him while he whimpered <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> . Poor little thing.

T, I am sorry about the baby. Give your H that letter TODAY. No more excuses!

Are you really ready to end things if they don't change?

yeah the little man is still not up to par today. I feel for him, I do. You can hear him wimpering in his sleep (yes it is 9am and he is still asleep- or so my oldest said- i am at work).
AndrewA what do you think of the letter? I want to make sure it is clear cut and to the point. i do not want to mix words. I think Noodle said I was whineing, probably so. I do not have any excuses. I planned on giving H the letter last night, however it never got printed off the computer.

To answer your other question. yeah I think I am ready. He says he loves me, if he did he would be willing to meet my few requirements. I do not think they are unreasonable.

I think you got good advice about the letter. You should definitely start it with the stuff that you currently have at the bottom.

Assume that your husband ISN'T going to read the whole thing. So...you need to get the stuff that is significant toward the top. That's the list of demands.

Also, don't leave it up to him to talk about it. Give it to him and tell him that you'll be back in ten minutes to discuss it. If you come back and he says he hasn't - or won't - read it, up the ante. Offer to read it to him. And if he refuses to do THAT...tell him that he has given you a clear sign that he isn't interested in fixing the marriage and that it's obvious you aren't important to him. Tell him that you will now do what you have to do to improve your own life.

T

Just to clarify.. I didn't think you were whining..but he likely will. I tried to read with the mind of a WS if that makes any sense. The opener was almost an apology for the rest of the letter. Nothing being said that wasn't better said after you cut to the mustard.

Wow..he lies that openly and has zero shame when caught? And his response to your pain over his A was to scold you for taking his toy away?

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Noodle

Thanks Noodle. I knew you meant well. I went back and reread it and you are right, it does come off a little whiney and will put him on the defense, and he might not finish reading the letter and get to the imprortant parts.

About the number, he said he felt he was thinking of me when he changed her name so that I would not have to see it in his phone. He still does not see what harm comes from keeping the number. I explained to him that the number, pictures, presents and letters all from her had to be thrown away. He has not said anything about that since I said it, not one word. WE shall see. I will not except anything less.

Not sure I am following you with the toy bit though <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

T - I don't know your entire A saga -

Question - When your WH came back home - what was his reason??? How long was he gone??

D-day was 4/25/03, he moved out in 1/04 came back in 3/04- so he was gone about 2 months.

his reason for coming back so he said was that he realized what he was doing to the kid and myself That he loved me and he was sorry. That he wanted to give our Marriage the chance that it deserved.

That is basically what I remember from his 1 in the morning wake me out of a dead sleep apology. It sounded very heartfelt, and he looked to be in termoile(sorry do not know how to spell that one)

A little more investigation could turn up some interesting information, T.

Is it possible that H came back because he and the OW had problems?

I knew that they were having problems. They were fighting. She wanted him to move away with her and start a family with her. He was not willing to do that. He wanted her to include her in family events, her parents would not allow that, and she would not stand up for him (she was 19). It was a cycle with them, H always came running back everytime that things were sour with her. That is why he moved out, because I was sick of the game, I told him I was moving on, and then did. He came back. Much to OW's dimay- she continued to call him for a while, then she found a new boyfriend. i am really not sure what made H come back the last time... I just assumed it was b/c I was moving on and he did not like it. maybe that is wishful thinking.

T,

This 19-year-old...is it the same OW that you are now fighting about him with in the phone number incident?

I think you are probably right - he came back because he saw that you were getting on with your life. He probably figured out something that you haven't admitted to yourself yet - that you don't NEED him. I'm sure that frightened him.

Yes that is the same person. All I could see that he found in her and not me is freedom. No bills, no kids, no responsiblity. They were both out of work, yet went on trips (yeah I know dumb me paid for them, in my defense I did not know about them until after they were put on the Visa- told him I would cancel it if it happened again). I too think that he felt he was loseing me, and had to make a decision. As he reminds me constantly- he chose me. However that is not enough for me, she still needs to be GONE= 100%. Until then our Marriage is a sham in my eyes. I made that very clear last night- that I am near the end of my paitence, and he has a choice to make.

It sounds like her parents put some pressure on her last time - I take it they weren't too enamored with your H?

If that's the case...perhaps you'll have some leverage if you find out he still is involved with her. Are you willingto expose the relationship, if need be?

That story he gave you about keeping the number around to annoy you is revealing. If it's true - and I suspect it isn't - then your H really IS a sociopath who enjoys tormenting you. Is that what you want?

T - He came back because he said he loved you - well, he said the right thing..Now you need to say - Don't tell me - SHOW ME....

I know where you are right now (mentally that is)...I'm in the same spot - can't live with them and afraid to be w/o them.

You have received alot of good advise w/this post..I set boundaries, demanded respect, etc. and my WH doesn't CARE...He will not give up the OW...Because he knows I won't leave our home. I have been shutting him out which doesn't seem to bother him..Basically, we just do our own thing. It's not a good place to be - very lonely and I miss him but I'm proud of the fact that I've stopped crying, begging, etc. him to work on "us"..I'm just saying you want the OW - go don't let the door hit you in the butt - but, don't expect ANYTHING from me..I

n my case and probably yours we take baby steps..We get stronger slowly, and are happy w/our achievements. We can't believe we've done what we have..
We both get our hopes up when they treat us w/an ounce of care - we read more into it than we should. We are doing that because we WANT THEM BACK SO MUCH..We will compromise and settle for little..Then we shake our heads again, and want more..and it's gonna be a long road for you and me and maybe one that will never have an ending..

There are days when I post here and a couple of members have given me the 2X4 too - I'm not looking of sympathy just someone to listen who maybe has been down the same road. I'm looking for answers - just like you are - sometimes we just want to "hear" a different answer..

It is wrong of your WS to lie again - maybe you shouldn't have confronted him - maybe you should have just watched his cell bill to see if he actually calls her or if it's just an ego/not ready to fully let go thing. Maybe once he felt more secure w/you and the marriage he would have erased them...See I gave you an answer that you wanted to hear...An excuse for his inexcuseable behaviour.I'm good at that I make them for my WH all the time...shame on me....

HUGS>>>>>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> posted November 16, 2004 01:32 PM                     
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It sounds like her parents put some pressure on her last time - I take it they weren't too enamored with your H?
We were friends, she is our youngest Godmother, they thought more of their daughter then to go after a married man. My H got her off drugs and drinking, and helped her. They thought the world of us. They did not approve of the relationship, and wanted it to stop, and were not going to help aid it along at all.


If that's the case...perhaps you'll have some leverage if you find out he still is involved with her. Are you willingto expose the relationship, if need be?
I exposed the second I found out about it the first time, I will do it again. I will not be so "loud about it" the next time however.

That story he gave you about keeping the number around to annoy you is revealing. If it's true - and I suspect it isn't - then your H really IS a sociopath who enjoys tormenting you. Is that what you want?
What I said is that he does not see how keeping the number hurts me any. he said he changed the name so that it would [b]stop annoying me. However he does not get it at all. All the things from her have to be gone!!!![/b] </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If he does go back to her, I will not wait around again, he will have to race me to the courthouse, as I will not play that game again, and he knows that.

<small>[ November 16, 2004, 02:04 PM: Message edited by: T in the road ]</small>

T (kMej):

Let me ask you a question. I noticed from one of your other posts that you commented to someone else that you and your WH moved to a bigger & better house after the first affair reconciliation. You commented that getting a "bigger mortgage" was better for your marriage b/c you both needed to work harder to make sure that the kids were not uprooted. Is this the driving reason you don't seek a divorce from your abusive unfaithful husband? Is losing the house and neighborhood for your children why you continue to accept your husband in you life despite the fact that he treats you like a piece of cow dung? Just wondering! This is not meant to be offensive, just curious.

Lemonman,
Yeah the house is part of it. However if H was consistantly being a dirt bag to me I would leave no matter what the house. My biggest hold up in leaving is he can treat me so great at times, and I guess I have been chooseing to remember those times during the bad as well. I am not sure I but bigger and better... Either way, to honestly answer your question. I can not afford the house with out H, and no I do not want to uproot my kids again, however again I will state, if it continues down the path it is on, I have already decided a hole in the wall apartment is better then what I have going for me know. As of late H has been taking 2 steps forward one step back, at least it seems that he is putting in an effort, however he does like to sabotoge it regularly.

By the way GREAT game last night!!

KMEJ,

Do you and your husband own this home together? Are both of your names on the loan/deed?

Yes we both own the home. Our names are on it together. We bought this house for a fresh start, hoping it would help us. It has, and it has not. H really seem to be trying as of late, planning a romantic weekend, calling to say hello, saying good bye before he leaves.... However he seems to keep going back to his old ways from time to time. THey are so devistateing, and down right cruel they are hard to ignore. That is why I am at the point that I am. I am tired of it, I am demanding change, one way or the other!!

By the way, should I just go back to KMEJ?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by T in the road:
<strong> H really seem to be trying as of late, planning a romantic weekend, calling to say hello, saying good bye before he leaves....
By the way, should I just go back to KMEJ? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">These things you are thankful for that he is doing is THE BARE MINIMUM that any person deserves. DO YOU REALIZE THIS? Calling to say hello, and saying goodbye are WHAT EVERY DAY MARRIED COUPLES DO. This man betrayed you to the umpteenth degree. His behavior NOW is so far below where it should be it is almost laughable. YOu have to reassess your expectations and understand how much more you deserve. Ok...sorry, I nkow that I said I would stop posting about this, so let me back off here as you don't need to hear yet again what a low down scum bag your husband is.

P.S. I think you should stay with KMEJ. It seems to fit you better <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />