Bear,

Tell her in the same sincere, straight-forward way that you told us.

"I know I haven't gone in the past. That was a mistake on my part. I realize now that I need to feel more included in your life. I'd really like to go to the party this year."

That's kinda what I was thinking of saying. Just worried about the potential reply, "Well, what if I don't want you to go?"

Well, that went real well. It did come down to "I don't want to be around you, I feel almost repulsed (my words, closest to how she feels) by you. You know I've felt this way for 2 years." Our son is 2 1/2. I have a very hard time believing that someone who I have spent 10 years with would feel this way about me.

"Because you are so perfect you think that nobody could feel this way about you?" W said. Folks, this has been two months since DDay and we have gone nowhere. She hides out at P's, won't talk to me. Said she didn't want to talk about it now (understood we are at work). I told her we could talk tonight (not at P's house), I said then we'll go somewhere and talk.

I really don't know what I can talk to her about. She's made up her mind. I don't think she really cares about how much she hurts me. I can't take it anymore. Don't believe the fog talk? Her tune has not changed.

What do I do? I cannot believe this is the person I married, if it is, how could I be so mistaken?

This is all fog, right? She has been taken by aliens. Someone please tell me this is true and she is just psycho. Tell me she will get over this and why has it been this long already and yet i am still hearing the same crap.

<small>[ November 16, 2004, 12:43 PM: Message edited by: Bear04 ]</small>

Bear,

It sounds like you aren't in Plan B yet...maybe that should be your next step?

Shouldn't i lay the foundation first with a good plan A? I don't want to give up yet, and that is what I see a plan B as, right now. I still want to try to reach her. I think this is fog as I refuse to believe what she is saying. This is where she just gets mean when she insists she feels this way. This is so hurtful. How can anyone do this to someone they love (or even loved)?

Bear,

Plan A is not for wimps. I'm not picking on you here, you are just expecting too much, too fast.

Plan A has to have a cumulative effect. Part of why the past 2 months went the way they did, is because you weren't in Plan A.

You have got to learn to emotionally detach from the fog speak. Since the holidays are upon us, that can be used to your advantage. Why don't you pick a date, like the first day of February, 2005. Continue in Plan A, let the family events around the holidays speak their silent message, and by then you will have layed the groundwork for Plan B, if necessary.

I know it's hard to do. Really, really hard, but the more you try, the easier it gets, truly. I got so exasperated I just made a game of it. She COULD NOT PISS ME OFF in any way, regardless of how she tried. I had control of my emotions, and refused to let it bother me. I KNEW it was not the woman I married.

Keep trying, keep posting, and read the book and other posts here, for ideas and education on how to proceed.

SD

SD I expect to get no thank you's or acknowledgement for any of the things I do for her. I expect to get disrespectful talk from her even when I am acting civil and not speaking in a demeaning way. I expect to feel like I am doing these things for a stone wall.

What I didn't expect was to get blasted and told I was repulsive and that she can't stand to be around me. That the last two years and all the time we have spent together means nothing. Fog, yes, probably, but pretty thick and pretty consistant. So is plan A also consist of being verbally and mentally abused? I just got off the phone w/my FIL, her dad. I tell him what the heck goes on. He can't believe this is his D. Says she treats everyone in the family horribly(I guess i take comfort I am not the only one, just getting it the worst). Like I told him, discovering the A hurts, but the biting things she is saying to me are hurting worse.

SD Was your WW this way to you? I mean I understand hard, but is this what you mean by hard?

Pull me back to earth her SD. Ohhh and not down to earth, up OUT of the earth.

On my way to IC, I'll check back with you tonight. So do I just fight through the attacks, turn the other cheek, and just keep plan A like nothing happened. How do I respond tonight?

You are witness what becoming involved in an affair does to the mental state of a Wayward Spouse.

They are filled with rage. They are torn two ways. They do not want to fact the truth. They know, down deep inside they messed up, but now they have this addiction on the one hand, and a spouse they've rewritten history on, in the other hand and don't know what to do.

Plan A is partly to let them know that you are a safe place for them to land.

You don't have to be a doormat. Carefully calculate your words when you speak to her. Tell her that it's very painful to hear that she beleives your marriage has been a farce. Tell her you know how she feels right now, but you will not accept the tone and harshness in her voice. Walk away from the conversation...but neutrally, if not cheerfully. Tell her you'd love to talk more, but when there's less pain involved.

Yes, they can be psychotic at times. Remember its the controls from the mothership, not your wife!

Detach, and protect your love for her.

SD

SD & others--

On the advice of my MC I am going to plan B. Actually, I have seen the 180 list and it is a lot more like that. It is a "get on w/my life and let her see me doing it" plan. It has some basis, a month ago, after a blowup, she thought I was done and gone. Pleaded with BIL that i wouldn't take her back, crying, etc. Well, I did and it was all downhill from there. She had me, I wasn't going anywhere. Great fallback position, she didn't need to look into herself because I would always be there.

First, the W's emotional abuse towards me is taking its toll and I am losing my feelings for her at a rapid pace. MC feels that I may just end up resenting her if this keeps up.

Second, my MC meets with us each individually. Though she cannot share with me W's conversations, etc., she feels that I need to do this and that W will see her support system leaving (me) and will chase me, rather than me chasing her, which is what is going on now. Right now, she sits in neutral and won't do a thing to move from current sitch because there is no reason to. P's enable her (she's cakeating from them) and I am always there to fall back on, whether it's financially, or help with son, etc. I am to restrict that (with P's help) so she sees what life is like for single mom. then she can make a choice. Life with me wasn't so bad. Only then will I be able to meet EN's, she'll open up to me.

Ironically, many of the suggestions she made came out of Ark's playbook, thanks Ark, such as the so glad you made it just in time, gotta go, late for ________.

On the other side, her P's will be there to remind her that W needs to work out M and to keep her on that course. Now, I was concerned about this, "blood is thicker than mud" is what I've heard said, but I am sooo tight with this family, i am closer to them than one of their own sons. they also can see the path their daughter is headed down and are desperate for our M to work out. Really, I say, what do I have to lose.

Whatever this plan is, I understood it when she explained it, it made sense, it's a plan, I'm following it. Any suggestions or comments you all have I would love to hear them. There is more to this than I am putting here. It is all vlear to me, now, except for how I am going to do this come holiday season? Cross that bridge when i get there.

bear...

quit confinding in fathier in law..

it's not fair to her dad...it must her him very much as he cares for both of you...
and it doesn't bode well for recovery...

(hope does spring eternal)

her lashing out does hurt bear..and we don't mean to minimize that reality....
it's very cruel..

but when you just leave those words hanging there in the universe...for her to hear in her head...as you make no comment no defense and no rebuttal as expected...
they are the words that will spin around in her brain and echo through her dreams..

ARK

Confiding in FIL. Let's see, I actually got a pretty good a**chewing from him for not talking to him about the probs we were having in our M. He is the one who requested I tell him what is going on, what she says, etc. Not that he is trying to control the sitch, he isn't. He doesn't want another bombshell to fall in his lap. Understand, this is a pretty close knit family. Like I said earlier, I am like a son, more of a son to them then some of their own. I feel secure in this position and secure about our relationship. They tell me I am the greatest guy their D could have M, don't know why she would/is acting the way she is. In fact, it is strange, on DDay, he was there to comfort me, I did not ask, MIL comforted W. The last thing he said to me yesterday is that in a family crisis we all have to work together to move in the same direction. That this is going to take a family effort, not just myself and W.

Maybe I should explain how W is acting, practically abandoning our S. She smothers him with love and affection but shirks off the responsibilities of being a parent, as of the last 8 months, and thrusting them off on myself and in-laws so that she could go and party with friends all the time enabling her to carry on A. In laws feel just as responsible for helping to create sitch in M fostering an environment for an A. Ultimately, it was my responsibility for allowing the sitch to happen, allowing S to get put off on them. I read back in baby's diary, this shirking of responsibility starting early, grew gradually, our lives were so different then. Unbelievable. This is a farm family, the house is always filled with Gkids, inlaws working in the fields. My W and I are professional people, but still live in a farm type lifestyle. This is the reason, I surmise, I let it get out of control. Like the frog in the pot, I didn't know the water was hot until it was too late.

Where they are involved in this is that they are no longer going to take on so much responsilbility in "helping out" taking care of our S. No more picking up from daycare at last minute. No more babysitting while W goes out on town w/friends (different story if its us going out for OUR time). Basically, removing the support system and showing W what it is going to be like being single mom. This is all part of breaking the fantasy. Reality is shining its light on the A, and on the consequences of it, mainly, a life apart from me, and the TRUE life of a single mother. The enabling stops here and now.

Like it or not, we are all intertwined. We all met W's needs. The attempt here is to remove them so she will realize her dependence on me and on family. Needs that OM can in no way fill, nor would he want to. After that, it is up to me to fill her needs, the ones I already fill and the ones I neglected to fill pre-A. Call it shock & awe.

Something else I feel like sharing. The comments, fog, my W spewed at my yesterday about feeling repulsed by me for the last 2 years. From baby's journal she wrote...

...Today is the 1st anniversary of 9/11. The TV is filled with news stories of families who have lost their loved ones, wives whose husbands aren't coming home, kids whose fathers & mothers won't be home. Neither I nor S could imagine life without Bear. I don't know what I would do without him. I'd probably go crazy...

Funny how the fog can distort the truth and rewrite history. Ironically, 2 years later to the day 9/11/04 was our DDay. Sad.