Myrta,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Will this feeling of being the worst person in the world ever leave??
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">((((Myrta)))) I remember being where you are right now....I do. In fact, a girl on MB named Poe and I used to e-mail each other about these feelings (we were both WS's).

I will be honest....mine hasn't left yet. BUT it has gotten better. I no longer hate myself. And I don't think I am the worst person in the world. I think I did something horrific, but I will not let that define who I am. I cannot change the past - I can only change the present and the future.

This is one of the things you will have to work on. You will have to find your own self confidence, self esteem, and self worth. Stanley can help, but the primary responsibility will fall on you. You ask if it will go away????? Time will help. But it will go away faster the more you work to discover what your individual vulnerabilities were (not just the vulnerabilities in the M) that allowed you to choose the A instead of a more appropriate solution (counseling, healthy outlets, even D).

You will get better. But you are going to have to start with changing your view about yourself . You can't hold Stanley responsible for your self esteem - that's usually one of the things that get's us in this situation in the first place - we look for outside external validation. You will have to find worth within yourself. There is no formula, but the more you learn, the more books you read, the longer you post here, and the more you change your M - you gradually will start to feel differently.

There are still many times I feel like I am "not worthy" of much b/c of what I did....but compared to a year ago, they are much less frequent. Used to be every moment of every day....now it's only once or twice a week. Much more manageable. I suppose it's like how the BS has to deal with triggers....with time and work, they get less frequent, and less intense....they are still there, but much more manageable.

Don't let your A define who you are.

(((Myrta))) - I can't hug you enough. I really remember how you feel. But please just commit to yourself that you will not let being a WS be your "label." You will be "Myrta" - and being the WS will become a part of who you were - not who you are . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

tobs,

I'd wish Hopeful_Person was here so she could give you some inspirational words but do try to establish some contact with your XH. Telling him you love him may not be the wisest move at this moment because he will not beleive you and may only end up raising his resentment against you back up. But do let him know that if he ever needs to talk to someone, that you are there for him at anytime of the day. The less pressure you put on him, the more likely he will feel free to open up communication with you and that could be the start of a new beginning for the two of you.

TMCM

Aussieswife:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I feel I am totally unable to begin forgiving myself until Aussie can forgive me.
Then I feel even worse because I am making my recovery dependant on Aussies decisions and actions. You see its this horrible cycle of self destructive emotion and I want it to just go away.
But it wont. I know life does not work that way.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are very intuitive. This cycle is nothing but self destructive. You will have to break this cycle, and start doing things to help you forgive yourself (independent of his forgiveness). Things that will help - counseling, discovering why you (individually) chose the affair instead of a healthy solution, reading how to improve your M, learning about what vulnerabilities were present in your M, etc. All of these things will help you individually . And as you also work on your M, you will realize a year from now how much has changed (time helps, too, of course <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) - and you will feel less defined by the A, and less dependent on someone else's forgiveness.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Like Myrta I feel that I want to go forward but my H is still suffering the discovery pain and still wants to know details over & over & over. And I know I must give him that, but being human I too get bloody sick of it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Try to look at things this way. You can move forward while giving details. But you have to learn to talk about it like an event in the past. It's an event....it's who you were.... but it is not who you ARE.

You are on the right track....you are being very insightful. While your H is gone (and best wishes for him and his work in Iraq), work on yourself and your own self esteem - sounds like you are on the right track.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

Good luck you two! And Happy Thanksgiving!

Sorry for the threadjack, tobs <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> . I have been interested in this thread as well, because in some ways, our situations are similar. My H is determined to D me as well (I did not have continued contact, but his rationale with control is similar).....

I don't have much advice, but do have much sympathy and hugs ((((tobs)))).

tobs,

I know that what I'm about to tell you is way too early in the game but even if you and your XH achieve communication with one another [and start growing closer] don't settle for reconciliation at any cost. Yes you betrayed him with your affair, but that doesn't mean that there were not any marital issues that may have contributed to the environment that made your affair possible. These issues MUST be addressed and resolved if there is any possibility for a future marriage that meets BOTH of your most important EN [emotional needs]. The last thing BOTH of you need is to have another marriage that is exactly the same as the pre-affair marriage.

TMCM

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Noodle said

Your H wonders if he is second choice for you, because, frankly..you replaced him in spirit and flesh..only when that had gone sour did you reinvest in your marriage. This no doubt leaves your H feeling pretty shabby about his relative value to you. Even as a bystander, it looks very convenient. It feels even worse.
You wonder if he would move on were he not over 50? Well..every person is different of course..but I am a far cry from 50 and find myself in the same predicament. My innocence is lost. It can not be recaptured. The part of me that loved openly and freely and with unselfconscious abandon..is broken beyond repair because of my Hs actions. It is broken with him or without him. My selection of choices is then rather slim, no?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't want to sound vain but OM was a lesser man than me in just about every aspect. However, I still feel like 2nd choice because OM had something I don't have and will never have. OM was NEW------------ That NEW aspect is an aphrodisiac! I was told to be the chosen one, but I wonder why.

Because I am the father of the kids?
A more honest man? (OM was serial cheater)
Better provider?
Kids would side with me if they know about OM?
ect, ect,

The list can be very long

In the end Myrta says, well I am here, I did not elope with OM, that counts for something.

And I say: But, OM was NEW and that generates an excitement I cannot generate. So in the end I struggle with the idea of being 2nd best.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Cymanca said:

Am I looking forward to the dating scene at 51? No, I am most definitely not. IS THAT THE REASON I WANTED TO SAVE MY MARRIAGE, ABSOLUTELY NOT.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">On D-day I told my wife the marriage was over. In fact I begged her to pack her bags and go live with the OM. Then I decided to stay. The reasons are many, but mostly I stayed because I could not believe I was going to divorce the woman I had loved all my life. I stayed because I loved her. I thought about dating in the 50s and many other things, but in the end it was all about my love for her.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

LIT said:

He is not talking about you as second choice....rather, he is pointing out that the maturity, experience, and marital history have influenced his decision to stay. He seems to believe that had he not learned these qualities over the years, he might have chosen divorce, and then regretted it. Just look at it from a different direction.....from this perspective, it looks like he chooses you first - even over the seemingly "easier" option of divorce.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OTOH, when one sees the WW in withdrawal and longing for the OM one feels like 2nd best. It does not matter that she says "I want to save the marriage a 1000 times". And as you all know during that stage the WW cannot say ILY to the H. Yes------ One still feels like 2nd best and is overcome with a great deal of self-doubt. I have a kilometric list of positives as to why my wife should stay, but OM has the most powerful attribute. He is NEW and I am not.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
LIT said:

This is one of the things you will have to work on. You will have to find your own self confidence, self esteem, and self worth. Stanley can help, but the primary responsibility will fall on you.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is a huge issue and the reason for the affair. The opening remarks of my wife when she started to see the OM were: "I feel inadequate next to my H. In our marriage he has more value than I do." All of this even though she was clearly the center of my existence and the most venerated and admired member of the family.

The low self-esteem became the main theme of the affair. OM's mission was to rebuild her self-esteem. IN fact when OM called after D-day (the period when NC was broken) he always mentioned that he was worried about the self-esteem of my wife and wanted to make sure he could keep it up his kind words. Yes, OM was in charge of keeping my wife's self-esteem. And now the end result of the affair is an even lower self-esteem. I agree--- no one can give self-esteem to another person. I worshipped my wife for a lifetime and also failed in raising her self-esteem.

HAPPPY THANKSGIVING TO THOSE IN THE USA AND A GREAT DAY TO THOSE IN EUROPE AND DOWN UNDER! Thank you for posting to us, it helps!

<small>[ November 25, 2004, 11:23 AM: Message edited by: Stanley568 ]</small>

tobs,

Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours.

TMCM

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Will this feeling of being the worst person in the world ever leave??
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I tell Myrta on a daily basis that feeling this way will not get us anywhere. I don't need her to feel shamed. In fact, that depresses me. I still think her actions are related to FOO (childhood). We had a saying in our house: Most folks change little in a lifetime; there are only a few things that can be modified. My wife and I are essentially the same way we were as teenagers. Myrta is an exemplary woman with a very kind heart and not a bad bone in her system. However, she could not escape FOO, she let her guard down for an instant and "that is all she wrote". I will not blame her as the person she is today. I will accept her and continue to forgive her on a daily basis. I cannot do anything else.