</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by greergan:
<strong> I am for sure still in Plan A. I am still stuggling to re-build a strong enough bond with my wife so that recovery can happen. It seems to be both slow and fast at the same time. Very confusing. But the affection between us is very satisfying finally after going through hell every day for a month at the start.

At minimum I am creating a place were we both can make a well informed decision. If we split I want it to be on the most friendly terms possible. If we choose to stay together then I want it to be more open, honest and passionate than before. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Greergan, I smiled when I read your words.

I thought " you have snatched the pebble from my hand, Grasshopper" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

With that atitude, more study and a little detachment you WILL recovery your M.

You are already being what you W needs you to be.WELL DONE !

This is a heroes Gig, and you're already wearing your speedos over your tights <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Bob, I realize that its not a LB by saying that she did a very bad thing. But in her state of Fog I'm sure it will thought of that way. She thinks that she's been justified by what she did, at least thats how it seems. Your right in that I can't help her reactions to things that I say that are my feelings and not LB's. I may have to give it a try.

I too have been reversen babbling when I can thanks to Orchid. Time will tell I guess as to how I'm handling the affection part. Maybe I'll try backing off a little to see how that goes.

Remember the " when _ it makes me feel _ ". I statements, not accusatory but factual.

" when you contact OM it knowingly hurts me in a way that I do not believe I deserve I deserve". ( note not YOU are hurting me in a way... IT is hurting me in a way )

All "I" stuff, point it at yourself and only refer to WW. And don't try to empathise - All WShate to be told how they are feeling. In truth they may not KNOW how they're feeling if the mothership has control of their brains.

She'll get used to that manner of sharing after a while if she is like my Squid.
All blessings

Sound advice. I've been trying to use words that don't lay blame. I think it's been working, but I'm not sure. As long as I try not to use LB's, lay blame, and keep on my plan A, I can only hope she will allow me to meet her Affection EN.

You know, I think I need to back off a bit too. Maybe that is a good strategy. I know that one of her top needs is affection, and I never give her an ILY without her responding ILYT, but sometimes I wish I hadn't said it because of how she sighs or nonverbally indicates it was a little too much...

She was really not very physically affectionate with hugging, etc. even the first year or so of our marriage, but had really come around prior to things heading south about a year ago...

One thing we have always done is end every phone call with ILY...I tried just hanging up one time last week and she said in a very reminding tone ILY!!...

It's a tight rope walk...meeting her EN's but also holding a little bit back...

One thing I wonder about as a BS: I had forgotten just how much this woman meant to me and how badly I needed her until D-Day when I thought I might lose her...that brought all my feelings back within 24 hours...(I think most of us had a similar experience) since then, through plan A, etc. it has all been my showing her that I can meet her EN's that I am changing, etc....and she loves me and says her feelings are coming back, but a little slowly...

She has never had the experience of thinking she might be losing me, I did take one night to go away and have some alone time to think things over for myself..I told her I had to decide what I wanted and see if I would miss her (this was when OM was still on the scene)...she didn't call OM or go see him while I was gone..she called my cell phone 15 times (no exaggeration)...when I returned, she hugged and kissed me more passionately than in the last three years..

Sometimes you wonder if they need to think they might be losing you for a little while, maybe wake them up the way it did for you...

But then again, you want to show that you will meet their EN's and that this isn't a 'flash in the pan'...

Think I will try backing off a bit on physical affection...what do you think BobPure?

Think I will try backing off a bit on physical affection...what do you think BobPure?


It worked really noticably well for me. Backing off overt shows of physical and verbal 'loving' affection helped make Squid less defensive all the time and a little more relaxed. That coupled with my building a peronal life outside her ( I look GOOD dressed up and going out these days!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) it was Plan A with a sort of mini plan B thrown in for good measure ( i.e. she got to see what I could offer but she had to open up and choose to accept it - I wasnt on a plate for her anymore.)

Squid has told me since that she waS scared she'd lose me one night when I dressed to impress to go out to a comedy club with some friends. She tells me now she felt SICK that I was certain to be hit on by some other woman and why wouldn't I respond ? She wanted me to hold her that night but couldn't say so.

No guarantees HH, but it worked for me. If you DO back off make sure you are still 'plan Aing' and available to her - just not romantically. I suspect your 'ILY' exchanges are more habit than fact for her.

I mean what does ILY actually MEAN when a spouse justhad an affair ? She told HIM that too so the phrases' currency is devalued IMO for a while at least.

<small>[ November 26, 2004, 12:44 PM: Message edited by: Bob Pure ]</small>

Bob,

You just gave me a great idea. I made plans earlier in the week to go out today with some friends, part of taking care of myself. My wife works till 11:30 on Friday and Sat. nights afterwards she goes downtown to the clubs, sometimes with OM. I'm going to dress up tonight and hang with the friends, but I'm going to stop by her work before I do. I'm also going to try and be there for her if she needs me and keep doing the Plan A, but will back off for physical affection. Thanks for the advice!

WOW, so many similar experiences and emotions.

I know it has been hard for me to back off many times. It gets easier every day to loose the co-dependant behaviour. Every day I can loose more of it and realize that she is a seperate human being from me things between us get better.

Over the last couple of weeks and actually just about an hour ago SHE has asked me what was going on inside of me. My heart jumps every time she asks me that.

Holding back is still hard but it helps things for me get to the point of balance.

BTW: I also told my WW that she is a good person that just made a mistake. What I really said is "People make mistakes, mistakes don't make people". I have told her that several times when she was being extra hard on herself about what she did.

Thanks for the words Bob, I am trying to do the right thing and some support helps me through the next mini-crisis that goes on in my head. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I still love my W and still choose her. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

native, i am so glad you asked that. i am in the ezact same situation as you, it sounds like, and i have been wondering the same thing.many good answers and suggestions so far, and i agree, schools in session and i am ready to learn also. dday for me was oct 19 so it is all still pretty overwelming to me. my ww is acting just like you say, slowly maybe becoming more receptive to "slight" affection, a hug in the hall, or a kiss on the forehead, tho there is no signs of her initiating anything yet. that is hard, i know. this is a good place to be for support, good luck and keep us posted.

I think it took exactly 1 month from D-Day until my W initiated physical affection. Could be because that was our anniversary. That is my guess anyway because it was semi-forced and awkward for both of us.

After that it probably took another couple of weeks before she initiated affection because she wanted to.

And finally last night she told me that she really, really, really loves me. That does not mean everything is all back on course but it is closer.

I guess the point is that unless your W left already there is probably still hope. Just do not force anything with her. Every time I have either forced and issue or stuffed it inside of me we have had problems. When I just let things be and don't bother her when she won't hold my hand or whatever things are that much better when she does show/receieve affection (BTW: Since just after we got married she has never shown/receieved affection very well until after the physical part of the A was over).

Most of all I am getting better everyday at being patient with myself and with her. It is really weird but I feel that we are closer now then at anytime in our marriage.

native, boy can i relate to what you are saying. it sounds just like me. i do think i will try the advice to back off for awhile, our therapist has suggested that also, tho my response is that i am afraid she will think i dont care or dont love her. also is it just me, or does it seem like in plan a ,i am kissing her butt and getting nothing in return? i know i shouldnt feel that way, but sometimes i cant help it. i do still love her and want to reconcile, i just dont know how long the withdrawal phase is going to last. anythoughts, anybody

Okay so the consensus seems to be, to back off from physical affection untill the WS initiates, or at least dish it out sparingly so the WS knows we still care. However keep doing Plan A and give them time. I think this would work in an R, however my WW is still seeing OM so I don't know how well this is going to work for me.

I will try backing off, and living a semi-independent life from her. I guess for those of us that are still trying to break off the A we have to let WS CHOOSE to come back to us.

I tried just a little thing along these lines last night. Every night before our marriage got off track when we went to bed (we always went to bed together until I started being an idiot and staying up late on the computer when she would go to bed...stupid) I would always say, 'Come here, honey, let me hold you'.

I have been doing that lately since plan A and since NC..last night, I just laid down and said goodnight. After about five minutes, she rolled over and wanted to be held...

I have a feeling everything is going to be ok...I have a lot to be thankful for this thanksgiving!!