^

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by greergan:
<strong>5 months of Plan A with no verbal commitment from her for me, our marriage or NC.

All I get is the negative thrown back at me and her desire to be dead and how she is such a bad person.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">GG - I think that a firm plan-B where you outline exactly what she needs to do in order to return to the M is in order...

You're getting some great advice from some great people...

I wish it was that easy. I really believe that she is probably ready to throw in the towel. She feels to broken to continue and actually put some effort in.

She says it would be easier to start over with out me. Same thing as she said on DDay and most of the time there has been contact ever since.


Yes, yes. I can see it also. I let myself get sucked back in. My insticts are to fight with words and actions not with 'nothing'.

GG

put what you want in writing to her. Step by step, point by point.

also list the consequences... separation, custody fight, because YOU know that you are not going to let your child live so far away if you have any say in it - I think we know you well enough to know you'll fight for that at least,

dont talk about divorce - separation plan B only. However dont give up custody rights 'just for the time being' courts seem to then think well if its worked for 3 months 6 months etc then it can work permanently - simple language, dont allow your child to live 250 miles away. Just in case the M cannot be rebuilt.

I still think it can, Melody gave you great advice she has been here a long time GG, this 'crap' goes on because you have allowed it to by not standing up & sying enough is enough.

I understand why, the fear of loosing it all, but GG you are doing that right now anyway aren't you???

YOU can do this, you MUST do this if you want to save your M. I know it sounds mean to tell her to go until she can meet your requirements but what else has worked? NOTHING.

You talk calmly logically to her. she says yes , yes you are right & goes out to Om just like before.

YOU yell at her, tell her go away until she can commit & says yes yes I know you right, still stays in the family home & still goes to OM.

Gg you have nothing to loose anymore except a lot of ongoing pain.

wish you all the best

Yes, AW. You are correct on all counts.

Just woke up reaaaaaly **ssed off with the thought of getting taken again because I felt sorry for her.

This of course goes back to what Plan B looks like in reality.

I can't make her stay out of the house. Her name is on the papers also.

I am scared that I will say something stupid to cause her to leave DD at gparent's house so I don't even have the chance to keep DD in her home.

I really am having a hard time seeing the logistics of Plan B with the resources I have (or don't have).

I am just a simpleton fairy tale romance kind-o-guy. Ready to stand but not equipt to do so...damn this sux.

GG its a pet hate of mine when BS/WS roll their eyes and talk about 'giving up' and having a divorce to end the pain.

Divorce is about the most painful thing a person AND kids can go through.

Choose D as an active decision when you feel its right, don't make it the default action when you don;t feel like working on recovery.

And EL has no ability to rationalise right now. Her words means almost nothing. Read every sitch including mine, have ANY active infidels ever made any sense ?

Its down to YOU GG. You got to find sand to do the right thing :you have to nail down your instinct to cave.

Be a knight, dude. I know exactly how hard it is.

You can do this

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by greergan:
<strong>I am just a simpleton fairy tale romance kind-o-guy. Ready to stand but not equipt to do so...damn this sux. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hey GG - There's nothing wrong with being a romantic... But you're worried that a good, firm Plan-B is going to "push" EL away...

GG, you have nothing to lose with a good Plan-B... EL is already back in contact with the OM. Listen to what these wise posters are saying to you... you need to come up with a good Plan-B, then stick with it... She may still decide to go to the OM, but I think that's highly unlikely as he's married...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She feels that she has hurt our relationsip to much to fix, that is why I think she has not ended the affair. She wants to keep OM in the wings in case she needs him. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There you are, the one who has been hurt, willing to work it out...but, all that statement really means is that she isn't willing to end contact at this point.

If it were too much too fix, you wouldn't be in such a quandary as to what to do, you'd simply agree with her.

I see you are posting that your are wondering if maybe it is time to give up, but, try Plan B first. Cut contact with her.

If you can't financially afford Plan B, well divorce is far more costly!

Thanks all.

Thanks Bob for not apologizing with the 2x4, really felt more like a 2x2 but that is ok.

"Quandry" That is the word for the day.

MY BIGGEST FEAR -> That I will not be able to hold my boundries.

Still looking for suggestions about doing Plan B with what resources are available.

I am a bright guy, but when it comes to myself I am a dolt. I NEED HELP.

This again takes me back to the original question. What kind of things CAN I do given I have next to nothing to work with?

GG

Let me tell you the one thing you need.

You need to lose your desperate fear of losing EL.

She's already gone br'a.

Nothing you can do can make her MORE lost.

The reason you lost her is because she exaggerated the bad stuff about you in her head and forgot the good stuff.

The only way you can challenge that is by LIVING OUT your good attributes.

* being proud, having self respect.
* being a great dad
* Caring but not being a boot rag
* being forgiving but taking no [censored]
* being a calm , straight , capable edge that demonstrates the chaos in her own behaviour and the rest of her life

No gesture, phone call, drama, sulk or manipulation will change JACK for the positive for you GG.

WS have only peripheral vision. EL can stare right at you and fail to see your goodness, but persistent admirable behaviour is always there at the edge of her vision and it will sink in with persistence.

Light the way back to your heart subtly GG, don;t keep shining your torch in her eyes. It just makes her squint.

I'm out of analogies br'a. You gotta do something now.

{{{{GG}}}}}

You gotta do something now.

Yes, I need to keep hearing this one idea. Helps me refocus and remember what is at stake ME.

I don't so much have the horrible fear of loosing EL anymore. I really dont'. I mostly think about the kids now, at this point they are what keeps me trying.

Here is what I need from EL. Comments suggestions?

Commitments:
1) Commitment to me
2) Commitment to marriage
3) Commitment to life time no contact
4) Commitment to finding IC
5) Commitment to MC at reasonable time


actions:
1) Delete all email addresses
2) Request changed email address at work
3) Change cell phone number
4) No more over time in old department

I'm couldn't find if you are in Plan B or not.
(okay, I didn't look too hard either)

Here is what I need from EL. Comments suggestions?

Commitments:
1) Commitment to me
2) Commitment to marriage
3) Commitment to life time no contact
4) Commitment to finding IC
5) Commitment to MC at reasonable time


actions:
1) Delete all email addresses
2) Request changed email address at work
3) Change cell phone number
4) No more over time in old department
Are you going to put this into your Plan B letter?
Or is this what you need to keep from going to Plan B?

<small>[ March 21, 2005, 12:06 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

I had given Plan B letter last Thursday but have done very poorly.

These lists contain the things I need from her so that I don't move her stuff out of the bedroom and enforce Plan B solidly.

Maybe I should just wait a week to be able to afford to call the Harley's.

What a mess. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I had given Plan B letter last Thursday but have done very poorly.
Was this list in the Plan B letter?
I don't think it should have been.

These lists contain the things I need from her so that I don't move her stuff out of the bedroom and enforce Plan B solidly.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
There is no "partial" Plan B.
An "attempt" at Plan B usually can make matters worse than not doing it at all.
If you say no-contact and then have contact, you are simply telling him one thing and doing something else.

The list was not in the letter.

I am looking for ideas on how to plan b with limited resources...I.E. 1 car, no friends close by, 3 kids.

EL will be home in 4 - 5 hours. I don't feel prepared. I can't mess this up anymore.

Should I just wait for a week till I can afford the SH phone call?

I will be a wreck all week and that is not good for anyone.

I need suggestions please.

If you are not ready, you could wait.
Better to have good guidance than go in without a good plan.

You can email steve the Plan B letter before your appt.

Just limit contact with EL in the coming week.
Keep it short & sweet.
Make sure you do not LB, no matter what he says.

Do I urge her to leave after I've gotten my DD out of the car?