I need to know is it possible for a wife to fall in love with her husband after she has had an affair and claims that she never loved him.

My ww says that she has never loved me and never will, She is going on 14 days with nc but we seem to be struggling with the small stuff. She wants to move out and figure things out but then she says she wants to stay till at least June.

Please help me...I'm going crazy today....I'm in Plan A and it was going good until a small fight we had in the am over a dream I had.

Today she is cold and telling me in tears that she does not want to be my wife anymore and that she never loved me and never will.

What do I do to fix this, how do I bring that love back? is it possible to get through an A and build a new and happier marraige? How can I stop the love busting and just learn to listen to her needs even when she denies my filling them for her.

Michael, you know the answer is yes.

How do you get in a fight over a dream?

GC

Mschluter,

Put some cotton in your ears and when her lips move just nod agreeing with everything.

Seriously, don't listen to this cr*p. She has no idea what she is saying. Hard to believe by novices but WS's truly should have nothing that they say believed by their BS( positive or negative). Only believe half of what you see also.Calm down and continue on your plan.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Mschluter:
<strong> I need to know is it possible for a wife to fall in love with her husband after she has had an affair and claims that she never loved him.

My ww says that she has never loved me and never will, She is going on 14 days with nc but we seem to be struggling with the small stuff. She wants to move out and figure things out but then she says she wants to stay till at least June.

Please help me...I'm going crazy today....I'm in Plan A and it was going good until a small fight we had in the am over a dream I had.

Today she is cold and telling me in tears that she does not want to be my wife anymore and that she never loved me and never will.

What do I do to fix this, how do I bring that love back? is it possible to get through an A and build a new and happier marraige? How can I stop the love busting and just learn to listen to her needs even when she denies my filling them for her. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">THis is a marathon my friend, NOT a sprint. Go back and start looking at the SAA book and reimmerse yourself in these principles (since you obviously belive them). STOP the LB and just realize that your wife is in withdraw and may be like this for a while yet. These are the times you have to find other things in your life to focus on. Go to the gym, read a book (non marriage related), take your kids for ice cream. YOU cannot base your whole life and happiness on your wife's feelings and marriage state. When you start being happy and learning to "let go" you will "get it" and won't have these emergency panic days. Some of us come to these points in our lifes at different times. IN my case, it was AFTER my marriage for all intents and purposes died. YOu have to have faith, and do what you can do to be happy. YOu cannot change your wife or "make" her fall in love with you, despite what the many zealots around here claim. Go to work, do the best job you can, Be the best father you can....be the best husband you can, and let your wife's actions and feelings sort themselves out. IN the end you may realize that you don't want her back. Her "power" over you is crippling you now. Let go of the need to "make her fall back" in love with you. YOu have such a long struggle ahead of you, don't let things derail you so soon.

Goodluck...I don't have any other marriage building advice for you.

Dismiss what she says. She's crazy and kicking OM.

I think you might be having too many talks about your M. They won't help much right now.

WS look for lots of excuses, and when they find one that seems like a winner they like to say it out loud. "I never loved you" is a popular one. "I never loved you, yeah, yeah, that's the ticket!" Don't be discouraged by how sincere they are. Of course they believe these things! Doesn't make them true. They rewrite history.

Read Orchid's thread about babble (she links to it in her sig line).

And stay calm. Do not give her an excuse to break NC. Be coooooool.

GC

M,

Of course it is possible. There are many on this board and on others who have survived the horror of infidelity and reclaimed wonderfully fulfilling, strong, committed marriages, and who, yes, are in love with each other.

Important lesson: love is a verb...more than a feeling. You can learn to love one another again. Yes you can.

Your wife is going thru withdrawal, no different than any other addiction. She is, as many say, repainting history to color it the way she needs to believe it existed. If you have done much reading here, you will know that it is extremely common for a WS to say that they never loved you, only married you because of _________, etc.

My concerns right now: (1) are you certain there is still no contact? Frequently they fall off the wagon, and they seem withdrawn from YOU because they have been drawn back to the OP. (2) moving out is usually an excuse to resume contact and the A again. So be cautious about hearing carefully - if she says she needs time to sort it out, time by herself, that it is "not about the OP, but about her," etc. - those are typical lines that lead directly to resumed contact.

Those cautions, along with the good advice you have received about biting your lip and not getting drawn into disagreements, can hopefully help your sitch.

Right now your challenge is to help her get throught the withdrawal. Don't try to explain that to her or educate her about it, just be there as a roommate, as a companion. You didn't start out madly in love; it had to grow and develop. It will have to again. But THIS time, you can have the skills and tools necessary to make it strong and lasting.

<small>[ November 30, 2004, 04:35 PM: Message edited by: ISGirl ]</small>

GC:

I have been having really bad dreams of the ww and the Om together, Early this morning I had a vivid dream that I was coming home for lunch and I saw the ww leaving in a hurry, I followed her in my dream and she ended up at the OM's house, I waited fifteen minutes and then approached the front door, I turned the knob and walked in only to catch my ww in her Bra and panties in the OM's living room. I then woke up and heard the ww in the shower getting ready for work, I went in the bathroom to say good morning when I saw she was wearing the same Bra and Panties as in my dream. I freaked and dropped some LB's and instead of telling her about my dream I accused her of planing on seeing the Om. She got really upset and changed her panties and even destroyed them, these were the same panties she wore on her first sexually charged night with Om. I know, I was being childish and very immmature over a dumb dream.
===================================================
Cymanca:

I think your right I do need to put some cotton in my ears and just nod my head, But sometimes she blindsides me with her emotional attacks on me.

How do you get through these attacks?

====================================================


GreyCloud:

I have started reading SAA and it has helped me a little, just some of it seems so hard to comprhend and get through. I don't think I had as good a Plan A as I thought.

I need to start over with my reading of SAA..Is it too early for her to take the EN questionair?

===================================================

LemonMan:

Your right, I do need to pace myself better and learn to do things that don't include her to better myself, In SAA steve say's we need to build things together to have a strong marriage, when does that come into play?: Is that during recovery and after the six months of her getting over her withdrawal. at what point do I take us into recovery mode? how do you know your even at that stage?

===================================================

Isgirl:

To answer your question's,

Yes i'm sure she has had no contact with Om and if she were to move out she would be moving three hours away to stay at her mom's. What I do know is that she is going crazy over not being able to even call him. She has been told by Child Protective Services to have No contact with OM because of the effects it's having on her and the children.

She told me the other day that she even told the Om that she needed to stop talking and seeing him, and she admitted that it's so hard, She told me that she does not want me to be the one to fill her En's or to help her through this. She can't go more then two days without reminding me that she is not going to do anything to fix or help this marriage. Is this fog talk or should I start to take stock in what she is saying. I have given my Plan A till June 1, 2005 and then I plan on going into Plan B...

If she has no contact with OM during all that time but still has no feelings for me, should I start Plan B or should I have Plan B start sooner? SAA does not really help me understand in what kind of timeline things should happen. I wish everyone or someone would break down for me the timelines Steve is talking about in SAA...There seems to be so much that I need to do from the standpoint of SAA but I just don't understand under what timelines these things should happen..it drives me crazy..


Please anyone........I feel like just giving up and walking away from the WW and the kids, Because I'm even starting to feel like her A was my fault.

Michael, pace yourself for this marathon.

You should not be trying to recover your marriage and live happily ever after just yet...

Just try to do all you can to keep your wife from leaving, and to make it easier for her to avoid contact with OM.

Avoiding LBs and doing what you can to make her feel loved is all you can do in aid of this goal.

The rest can wait.

GC

GC,

Thank you.

Lately I have been Talking to the ww more about me and less about her and then add in the R talks and the need for us to fix the M.

I think I have been pushing her away with some of the stupid things I have done and continue to do. All the changes I need to do are not only going to benafit our M but they will benefit Me..

It's just so hard to make these changes while she goes about looking like she does not have a care in the world.

As far as I know she has not had any contact with Om but then again, Only she really knows and right now from what SAA say's I have not made her feel safe in telling me the truth.

Michael, a little warning.

Don't let the environment become one where her affair is justified. It is absolutely not your fault. I'm sure you regret your part in those things that are said to make a marriage vulnerable. But be careful. Your desire to change may get twisted so that your problems become too great a justification for the affair.

No matter what you did wrong, there is no excuse for your wife's behavior. Period. Don't forget that. Don't let yourself be diminished by any of your wife's justifications.

Remember, you are the faithful spouse here. You can hold your head high and walk with confidence as you try to make your home a place where your wife feels she may belong after all.

GC

Thanks Gc,

I saw my Doctor today and he wants to put me on Paxil 20mgs...Will this help me. He is also alarmed at the rate i'm losing weight and the lack of sleep I have been getting, bags under my eye's. I think I have what they call BS syndrome...Kills you slowly but surly....

Listen to your doctor. I resisted ADs but wound up on Lexapro. I cut it close. During the week it took for the drug's effects to kick in, I was in a dark and scary place I don't care to return to.

My doc gave me Ambien to help me sleep. Boy do they work. I used them sparingly, and I still have a few left, for emergencies.

GC

I have to go get the script filled tomorrow 20 mg does not seems so bad, any side effects?

Hi Michael,

Lets look at this from another point of view.

What makes the OM look so good to the WS's?

When the WW sees OM, he doesn't get angry, he doesn't LB. OM (all of them) give admiration, and compliments -
"So glad to see you"
"You look so nice today'
"You did such a good job on that project"
"I like the way you do your hair"
"that dress looks good on you."

That's a small sample. I want to know what you are doing along those lines. If all she gets when she sees you is LB's, and all OM gave her was the sweet lines.............
Do you see where this is going?

That's one thing you need to work on. It can't be fake though, it has to be real. You can't make up stuff. At first, keep it down to one or two a day, and you will start to notice when you can say things that will work, and when to keep your mouth shut.

Next -
I hope you are something of a sports fan -
I notice that the really good pro basketball players don't seem to get rattled when they are down by 10 points in the fourth quarter. They try harder, but they remain cool. They run the plays, they make the shots. Sometimes they loose a game, but over time, season after season they win more than they loose, their stats look better, and better.

You need a game plan, and you need to run it. So what if she doesn't respond right away - run your plan. Be cool, run the plays, keep shooting even if you miss some of the time. Over time you will get better, and you will win more than you loose.

That's the way the pro's do it, and you need to be a pro. When the other team says "we're going to kill you tonight" do the pro's let it rattle them?

When she tells you something, tell her "thanks for being honest with me about your feelings." and keep doing your plan.

Don't go all out buying a dozen roses every day. Those are the kind of things that seem fake right now. Do little things - wash the dishes. Offer to let her sit down and rest - and you take out the trash. Let her watch her favorite show on TV.

These are examples - I am not trying to tell you what to do as much as the kind of things to look for.

Say thank you when she does things for you. Thank her for doing your laundry, or cooking dinner, or whatever she does.

"I didn't use to notice how much you do for me. Thanks so much for dinner, I know you have spent a lot of time over the years doing thing for me, and I really appriciate it."

Bring home her favorite magizine, or candy bar.
"I just wanted to do something nice for you, you do so many things for me."

Look around, figure out her needs. You need to out OM the OM. You did it once, and she married you, you can do it again.

Now, when you have doubts, throw them out, and instead ask your self what you can to TODAY, or THIS WEEK to run your plan. Turn the doubt into actions that help you succeed.

I want to see you go two weeks full tilt. I think it will make a huge difference.

SS

Still Seeking,

Awesome advice, Because i'm that one in a million that likes to learn the hard way. I'm not one to not try something at least once, Your advice seems very solid and yes I'm that guy who forgets to thank the ww for all of her hard work.

Ok my Plan for the next two weeks is be nice, be kind, and Play whatever play I can.

I will win this Battle and I refuse to let some OM take my place at my dinner table...
GRRRR


Thanks SS

Hi Michael,

Just wanted to pop in and let you know that it is possible to recover and rebuild your M...

You're getting some great advice here... I might have missed it, but are you and your W in MC?

I'm a firm believer that my W and I wouldn't be where we are today if it hadn't been for our MC... He was very pro-marriage and he kept us focused as we rebuilt our M...

Semper Fi,
RIF

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>I need to know is it possible for a wife to fall in love with her husband after she has had an affair and claims that she never loved him.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Michael, yes it is possible. And your W claiming that she never loved you is not true and all fog talk. It really is… Your W wouldn’t marry you and had children with you if she never loved you.

I think many FWS’s/WS’s have the wrong idea about love in a M.

A while ago, I’ve read the following on a website link:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Falling in love is obviously not confined to infidelity. Most contemporary marriages start out with romantic love. But, therapists say, couples have to grow up and understand that "feelings of love are neither steady nor constant but travel in natural cycles," as Abrahms Spring puts it. "If your relationship doesn't live up to your ideas about love, the problem may be not with your relationship but with your ideas," she writes.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">People and especially WS’s often confuse real, stable & mature love (which can only be obtained through a long, committed relationship like a M) with the first stages of immature, puppy love when people “fall” in love and when hormones and chemicals are running high… These are 2 completely different types of love (mature & immature) and many people often expect to always have those “in love” feelings for their partner. They think something is wrong with the M if those euphoric feelings wears off… When the WS then get involved with someone else and experience those early stages of love & feelings again with the OP, they start to say to their spouses: “I love you, but I’m not in love with you”. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I thought the same thing after my EA ended, but I have learned and grown and realized that I was indeed “in love” with my H, but in a more mature way. As someone has said earlier, love is a verb and not all about feelings... Real love is a choice and if someone decides to act loving, very often the feelings will start to follow.

Dr Phil once said there is a difference between “falling” in love and “being” in love... He said spouses don’t stop to love each other, but instead, love transforms and develops into something more mature and stable. To use his exact words: The partner in a long & committed R became “the soft place to fall”. This is very true. Right now you are your W’s soft place to fall although she doesn't realize it yet. Think about it this way: You are the only one who really knows her and genuinely cares about her. You know all her strengths & weaknesses (especially now after the A); you knows the good parts about her and the ugly parts; you knows her on her “down” days and her “good” days – but you still loves your W and willing to recover your M with her, in spite of ALL your W’s faults, flaws and all the pain she caused you. This is wonderful and if you continue with your plan, I’m sure some time after your W have worked through her feelings and sort it out, she will realize this and appreciate you for it!

Keep your chin up and as other poster’s have said, look after yourself and don’t focus too much on your W’s fog talk and confused feelings right now. I must tell you, after my EA stopped, I was very confused & irrational for some time because of intense withdrawal and ‘fog’, so in some ways, I can understand why your W is behaving so irrational... But if there is No Contact and she can get through withdrawal, the fog will start to lift and she will turn back to her ‘normal’ self and see & think clearly again. Just remember, this is a long process and will take time & patience… Sometimes it will be 1 step forwards and 2 steps back, but it IS possible for your W to fully recover from this ‘temporary insanity’, because this is exactly what it is! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

May God provide you with extra strenght, patience and wisdom during this very difficult time.

Prayers to you,
Suzet

<small>[ December 01, 2004, 04:31 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]</small>

Thanks for all your help, all of you. I have never had such a wonderful group of people really care about what I'm going through. I don't have a real support system in place here. all my friends say leave the ww and my family thinks the same things.

MB is whats pulling me through this and thank you all.

Hi again,
Maybe we can discuss things a little more.

I need to know is it possible for a wife to fall in love with her husband after she has had an affair and claims that she never loved him.

We have seen it happen over and over - yes it can happen. That doesn't mean it will happen, much of it depends on you.


My ww says that she has never loved me and never will, She is going on 14 days with nc but we seem to be struggling with the small stuff. She wants to move out and figure things out but then she says she wants to stay till at least June.

It doesn't matter (at this point) why she stays. If she stays, you get to work on things. If you do a good job, you will probably recover. It's kind of like quitting smoking, no matter why someone quits, they still quit. If she stays, it gives you a really good chance. It may happen that she will change her mind. If so, find reasons to get her to extend her stay.

Money is tight, stay for a few more months, so we can work it out.

The kids need us, lets see if we can get along for a few months, to give them time to get used to it.

If she does express concerns, and wants to leave, find a reason, one that you think she will go for - and they are almost always true anyway. Note, this is just in case........if she ever starts going this direction, you need a plan, so you won't panic if she brings it up. You need to always be calm, and in control of your emotions.

Please help me...I'm going crazy today....I'm in Plan A and it was going good until a small fight we had in the am over a dream I had.

I read the dream account, and you blew that one. I know you know it, but there needs to be ways to communicate your feelings to her without making her want to leave. It works much better to ask for help. Your W is still home, I bet she will help you if you ask for it.

"I need help this morning. I had a dream last night about you and OM, and it is really affecting me ability to function. Please forgive me if I seem out of whack, this is really hard for me."

It needs to be in your words, I give examples, but you need to do it your way, using your own words. What could you have said? What would you say if it happens again? Please give examples, it will help you in the future.

Today she is cold and telling me in tears that she does not want to be my wife anymore and that she never loved me and never will.

You were angry, and mean to her. She could express these feelings even if there had been no A, but now especially she sees happiness in another direction. Again, you need to treat her with love and respect. More about that later.

What do I do to fix this, how do I bring that love back? is it possible to get through an A and build a new and happier marraige? How can I stop the love busting and just learn to listen to her needs even when she denies my filling them for her.

Bringing the love back is as simple as meeting needs (even if she says she doesn't want you to) and avoiding Love Busters. LB's is the big one for you right now.

Need meeting can be ramped up in stages. Right now, some things would seem fake to her (like a dozen roses - which we discussed already.) But, letting her watch her show on Tv, and not watching yours could be a way to begin. Learning to find things she does, and thank her for them really helps too. Most of us take lots of things for granted, and we need to know we are loved and valued. Tell her she is valued, and SHOW her she is valued. I used to read the paper when I got home from work, now I ask my W what I can do to help get dinner ready, and as long as she is working, I am working. That includes dishes - I help, and I tell her how thankful I am for the nice meals she makes, and for having my clothes folded and put away.
It takes lots of energy for our wives to do all that they do, and she needs to know you udnerstand, and appriciate her for it.

Now, you do a lot also, but if you can learn to lead, and show her that YOU get it, she will turn around, and she will give you what you need too. It may take a year, but it will happen.

Lemonman is right that this is a marathon - it is going to take a long time. And, like Graycloud says, it's not time to be thinking about living happily ever after. In fact, right now, it's time to change your direction.

When DDay comes, the focus is on the WS - and all the bad things they have done. It's true, an A is a very bad thing, and this is an understatement - we both know it. What you need to focus on is you - not your WW. You can't change her. If she said tonight that she was leaving you for OM, and she walked out the door, what could you do?

Shoot her -
Beg her to stay -
Use logic - show her it was a stupid choice -

The fact is, she has choices - they may be wrong ones, but she can make them if she wants. You need to give her a reason to want to stay. You need to take steps to have her fall in love with you.

You have choices too, and you could also leave if you want. However, if you want to make your marriage work, the best way is to do help her fall in love with you again.

This is all about feelings. Logic won't work. That's why people tell you to leave the discussion alone. There will come a time when relationship talks will be needed, but most of your focus needs to be on your plan - meeting needs, and avoiding LB's She will do whatever she feels she should do - So, create a place where she feels at home - loved, and cared for.


I think I have been pushing her away with some of the stupid things I have done and continue to do. All the changes I need to do are not only going to benafit our M but they will benefit Me..

I have found that we can't change our spouse, we can only change ourselves, and hope they respond.

It's just so hard to make these changes while she goes about looking like she does not have a care in the world.

Just like a drug addict, she is going through withdrawl. When someone needs help, you can help them, or tell them now stupid they are for needing the help, and what a great sin they have committed.

She needs help - it's true she brought it upon herself, but she still needs help. She can be the enemy, or a friend in need - you can choose how you will respond. Many times, people reject the help we try to give, but they still need it, and often if we keep working on it, we find ways to help.

Now, it doesn't mean you do every thing she wants, and that she is off the hook. You need to be able to call her on things if she tries to contact him again, and you need to ask her for help when you need help. It needs to be done with respect and love though, or it won't work.

The bottom line is that since you can't control her, you need to control you. If you really want this M to work, there are things you can do to help. Worry about what you CAN CONTROL, not about what you can't. Spend your time thinking about stuff you can DO, not about things that MIGHT or MIGHT NOT be true that you can't control anyway.

Lead, show her how things ought to be.

Understand, this may be the most difficult thing you ever do in your life, but you will either make a great marriage out of the ashes, or you will know you did all you could do. Either way, you get to keep the changes you make in you.

What are you going to do different today?

Also, if you don't have the book "Love busters, habits that destroy romantic love" by Dr Harley, I recommend it. I think it will really help you know how to give support instead of using LB's.

I also recommend you smile more - it's good for your face.

SS

Michael, you're blessed to have stillseeking helping you out.

I have Love Busters, and if you promise not to eat it, I'll send you my copy to read.

GC