Still Seeking and GreyCloud,

I feel like the basketball player who has been put on the bench for the rest of the season because he got hit in the head with a cup of beer.


I will Run my plan A and come on here to vent what she is saying and doing. Every step forward really feels like ten steps back.

Tonight she had a valid point in the simple fact she has gone 11 days without talking to OM.

I guess I have to just be the best I can be, Oh before I forget: I had two chicken sandwiches today and a soda with a few crackers and a bag os chips. It felt good to have some food in me. Now if I can only eat like that three or four times a day.

The effects of the A are starting to affect my job, they sent me home the other day because of my being so tired and worn out.

I wish I could hook something upo that would shock me everytime I feel an Lb coming out of my mouth. I think it's human nature to defend yourself when being verbally assaulted by an alien from a diffrent planet.

She is screaming at me from upstairs that she is not going to call Om anymore and that she will send the F**king NC letter if it makes me happy. I told her it's not about me it's about her. I have tried explaining to her that ending the A is about doing whats right not about me getting my way. She also yelled at me that I should be happy about cps investigating her because it keeps her away from Om, I replied to her that I wish that was the case but 11 days ago would prove that theory wrong...

It's like listening to a juinkie telling you they ran out of gas and need a few dollars till payday.

GC,

Can you send me that book love busters?

I finished your other book and am anbout to re-read SAA.

Still Seeking,

I will look up links on Plan A's and No I do not want a D I want a strong Affair proof M like all of us on here, I'm just to dense and angry to pull it off right now.

My brother wants me to come stay with him for a few day's till I get my head screwed on straight, maybe it's a good idea.

The basement looks better everyday...

I'm so tired of feeling sorry for myself, I need to make myself better but I forgot how too..


I will start biting my tongue on the LB's and I will tell her I'm proud of the 11 days and to keep up the good work.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Mschluter:
<strong> Still Seeking and GreyCloud,


I'm so tired of feeling sorry for myself, I need to make myself better but I forgot how too..


I will start biting my tongue on the LB's and I will tell her I'm proud of the 11 days and to keep up the good work. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Michael:

Hang in there my friend. PLease remember in the end, YOU CAN AND WILL SURVIVE if your marriage ends. Your marriage does NOT Define you. Your wife may never "get out of the fog" and you have to be ready to move on if that is the case. YEs, your marriage is on the line here, but YOUR LIFE IS not. YOUr children, family all NEED you. YOU are taking some of life's toughest punches on the chin, and you are hanging in there. PLease remember that life may never get harder than it is now for you. YOU can AND WILL survive this. YOU are not dying of cancer, you don't have AIDS, you are not in jail on death row. YOu are a good and principled man and a father to three great children. As bad as things get in this life, you have that to hang on to. YOU fathered three children and are "there" for your kids. YOU have to remember all of this. YOU are taking a beating from life, but you are still standing. DON't quit on yourself. I think what you are going through is so much bigger than "marriage building". God, would never give you more than you could handle. He (she ??) would not do that.

I can't tell you what to do here (although you probably know my opinion <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ), but I support you. I want you to make it, in whatever you want.

LM

LemonMan,

this Letter is to all of my friends at Mb, you all have supported me in so many way's that I just can't begin to comprehend the amount of Genuine love and carring that goes on in these forums.

I have taken a very long look in the mirror and have once again been verbally abused by the spouse, I did real good and just let it roll off my back. I even told her i'm sorry she is having such a rough day, I then went and ran a nice bubble bath for her with her favorite scent added to it.

I'm tired, I'm just really tired, I barely have the energy to look at myself yet drop one more usless Lb on the ww, My LB's don't do me any good nor do they help her.

Tonight she told me if I really love her that I would do us both a favor and do away with myself. I think for once the ww is right on track.

I really did try, and I'm sorry for not being as strong as all of you.

Hello Michael --
Please remember, NOTHING that comes out of her mouth should be taken to heart. You ARE making progress. You've done a couple of nice things for her just today. Often, a wayward spouse will respond to these niceties with anger -- either because they don't trust it or it triggers guilt in them. DO NOT TAKE THESE THINGS TO HEART. This is common, and it's progress.

I know you feel terrible. Did you see your doctor? What has he prescribed? It's good that you ate today. You need to force yourself to continue to put one foot in front of the other. Give the meds a while to work.

On another note, how are the children? You haven't written much about them. Are they doing OK?

Hang in there -- stay here. You WILL regain your emotional footing.

Shellybird

Michael

That suicide option is overrated. I tried it & screwed it up. I soon realised that taking the PAIN away from my LIFE was needed y my kids not taking my LIFE away from the PAIN.

You have to seek some help over those dark thoughts Michael. I completely understand them but they are wrong. Your WW is wrong. She needs you not only alive but STRONG. Let me explain

Your WW is in the throes of an addiction just as real as if she had been freebasing.

Her alien actions, deliberate spite, its all driven out of the personality changes caused by the addiction itself and the mixed and powerful emotions she is experiencing.

You seem to be receiving her barbs as if they are personally driven into you by the wife you have known and loved.

Michael that woman is trapped deep within the creature you are dealing with today.

She has never needed you more than she does today. When she is unable to have a healthy relationship with ANYONE right now and cannot judge or do th eright thing for herself YOU must take every action to help her so to do.

I am not just saying this - it is borne out in the lives of almost every recovered or recovering BS.

BELIEVE this - your W is temporarily mentally dysfuncional and you must help her recover her true self.

It is a hard gig - hardest I ever did - but you can do it.

Plan A feels " weak" but done right it is the strongest tool you can use.

You MUST detach from the sitiation emotionally for this to work. KNOW that WWs words are addiction-driven so pay no heed to them. Journal them and post them up here with a smiley ( I did that for some of the most spiteful 'fog' ever seen on these boards - but I could smile at them and feel pity for my FWS, as my STUDY of affair dynamics shoed me that it was not my Squid talking but an addicted alien beast.

You can get across you EVERY point and need in plan A but you must do it in the way proven to cut thorugh fog - without LBing. It can be done but takes real sand.

You HAVE that sand else you wouldn't still be caring so much for your sitch.

Michael you must start taking the advice you are getting and be the man your family needs you to be in this crisis.
And NEVER take permanent decisions while you and other protagonists are messed up and emotional.

Turn your energies inward and make sure you are healthy physically , emotionally and spiritually - you're gonna need to be strong for the road ahead.

STOP LBing
DETACH from the sitch knowing your WW is relationship-impaired right now
STUDY Surviving an affair and classic posts on here - knowledge is power
EXECUTE a great Plan A

DO these things and you WILL save yoru W from her addiction so that you can start to work on your relationship.
DO these thngs and i GUARANTEE in ONE MONTH you will feel better than you can ever imagine feeling again right now.

I know because I have worn your exact shoes my friend, only a few short months ago, and now my Baby is curled up sleeping in bed, and will wrap he sleepy , loving arms around me when I go back to bed in a moment. And she was so spiteful I can't tell you just four months ago.

Michael you have to stop flailing around. MB WORKS dammit, start doing the things that work and stop the drama and self-pity.Be what your famly needs you to be right now and be PROUD.

{{{{{michael }}}}}

<small>[ December 03, 2004, 11:44 PM: Message edited by: Bob Pure ]</small>

Michael,

No one is right on track with a comment or even thought like that. No one.

Please contact either someone from here or call the suicide abuse hotline in your area. Please let us know how you are doing.

One of our MBers here (Redhat) works the crisis hotline in his area. I know he will call you if you let us know. I just left him a message.

Please do not do yourself any harm. It will not help anything. Your crisis is not worth any further damage.

Please let us know how you are doing, ok? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

L.

Inserted in later edit:
There comes a time in all our lives that we need to reach down deep in side, and find the strength to go on. You are not alone, all of us travel the same road at some time or another. Please find it in you, and come back and tell us about it. Sleep on it first if you have to, but please come back.


Looks like you are still having "fun" at your house.


I feel like the basketball player who has been put on the bench for the rest of the season because he got hit in the head with a cup of beer.

You are the star player, if this game can be won, you will be the one to do it. There is no one else. You get to play the whole game, with no subs. Do you understand what that means?
The reason you need to be a pro, is that life as you know it is at stake. This is not High School ball, this is the PROS.

BTW, you can do anything you want, we only recommend things. Just keep your goal in mind when you talk. I recommend you don't answer her unless you can say nice things. Ever.


I will Run my plan A and come on here to vent what she is saying and doing. Every step forward really feels like ten steps back.

Doing this stuff you learn here does not "feel" right. We want the WS to understand - we want them to "get it." They don't get it - not yet.
You want her to understand so badly, and see what you see, and know what you know. Telling her doesn't work though, you already know that. So, lets try something else.


Tonight she had a valid point in the simple fact she has gone 11 days without talking to OM.

If someone quits smoking, it doesn't matter why. They still start to clear their lungs of the ill effects of the smoke. Did you tell her thanks for giving you this great gift - or ........


The effects of the A are starting to affect my job, they sent me home the other day because of my being so tired and worn out.

Have you discussed this with your supervisor? Tell them what is happening, say you are going to see your Doc about anti-D's and ask them for a few weeks to get going again? Not a few weeks off, but a few weeks of going easy on you.

Many here have done that to good effect. Think about it.

I wish I could hook something up that would shock me everytime I feel an Lb coming out of my mouth. I think it's human nature to defend yourself when being verbally assaulted by an alien from a different planet.

It just so happens that you claim to love this alien. Do you make it a habit to yell at people you love? Do you think OM yells at her?

I am not trying to berate you, but it all boils down to these basic things. If you Love Bust, she will not stay with you.

If you yell at someone you love, you apologize for it, and you try as hard as you can not to do it again.

She is screaming at me from upstairs that she is not going to call Om anymore and that she will send the F**king NC letter if it makes me happy.

One of the reasons I want you to think of this as a game, is that you know how games work.

Artificial rules, and you need to follow them to win.

The rules of this game say no LB's. Change the way you look at this. She is the other team, she is trying to get you to LB. You can't score if you LB, so you need to be thinking of this all the time. When she yells, and you can say "I didn't mean to upset you, please forgive me," then you win. If you can't make the change in your head, then your emotions will continue to control the game. You will find that it's the truth, you really don't want her upset, because that doesn't help you win the game. If you think about it, you will be able to say it with feeling - it will be the truth. If you think about your feelings for her, the person you are trying to save, the love will be in your voice - and she will feel it, even if she won't act like it right then.

So, make the change in your mind. Join the game, play to win. Think about it every minute you are home. How can you score? Find things to do for her. Keep it small. I don't know the ages of your kids, but changing the baby, running them to hockey practice, doing things she usually does. Think, I want you to come up with things, because if you are thinking of them, you won't be thinking of angry stuff. Make the change in your head.

I told her it's not about me it's about her. I have tried explaining to her that ending the A is about doing what's right not about me getting my way. She also yelled at me that I should be happy about cps investigating her because it keeps her away from Om, I replied to her that I wish that was the case but 11 days ago would prove that theory wrong...

He shoots for three........and he misses. Sorry, but is that a nice way to say it?

We have learned (almost three years on MB for me, I started lurking in Jan, of 02 -) we have learned that you can only teach people that want to learn.

She doesn't sound like she wants to learn at all RIGHT NOW. That will come later though - if you can concentrate on what works. What works is you becoming a better guy than OM.

So, you need to think about what you are saying. This is about emotions, not logic. Logic won't bring her on your side. If you have read HNHN, Dr Harleys approach is not to say "this is the right thing to do, so please do it." His method is to get the WS to fall in love again. What you have been doing (LB's) will not accomplish that.

It's like listening to a junkie telling you they ran out of gas and need a few dollars till payday.

I don't mean to say you are wrong in your logic. It's just that being right doesn't make any difference to her, so lets work on what will make a difference, and that is getting her to fall in love with you again. And PLEASE don't let her know what you are doing, she will rebel.

Now, do you love this junkie enough to help her through withdrawal?

A few years ago I had a reforming alcoholic in our home. He got angry about something on of my sons said to him during dinner one night. He stood up, and tipped the dinner table over, everything going on the floor. Plates, cups, food, everything. I had only an instant to think. I told him I knew he didn't mean it, and that we loved him and wanted to help. He realized what he had done. We picked up everything, and put it in the sink. We fixed a quick instant dinner, and we ate together. He made a mistake, but I didn't. He does well these days. Holds a job, is a family friend. My children were watching, they learned from it.

She has made a mistake. You need not follow her example. Your children are watching, they will learn from this, either good, or bad.


I will look up links on Plan A's and No I do not want a D I want a strong Affair proof M like all of us on here, I'm just to dense and angry to pull it off right now.

Change !
It's time to join the Pros. Anger is a choice - you can change the way you react to her. You can win the game.

My brother wants me to come stay with him for a few day's till I get my head screwed on straight, maybe it's a good idea.

Only if you can't make it work without leaving. It is better if you can show her what you are really made of, solid gold, not cast iron.

The basement looks better everyday...

Remember, you can't win, of you leave the floor.

I'm so tired of feeling sorry for myself, I need to make myself better but I forgot how too..

I will start biting my tongue on the LB's and I will tell her I'm proud of the 11 days and to keep up the good work.

Do you love her? Or just the lifestyle of being married to her? Are you angry because you don't have love and affection like before? If you think about it, she is really hurting herself the most. You can do this right, and you can become far stronger and better than you have ever been. You can literally save your family if you do this right.

So, do you love her? Do you want to help her? Is your love strong enough to change the way you react to her anger?

Don't think:
she is still doing this or that.
She wants to call OM.
She has no respect.


Do think:
What's the best thing for me to say to keep this conversation calm.
How can I do this and not LB?
Would OM say what I am about to say?
How can I score the most points in this conversation?
How can I help this person I love become whole again?


Here are lots of posts on lots of things, look at plan A posts, and also posts on Love Busting.

Notable posts

I also encourage you to pray if you are a Christian. It helps me a lot. There really is someone there.

SS

<small>[ December 04, 2004, 01:08 AM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Michael

I have not posted to you before being a FWW and really not in real recovery yet, I felt I was not able to provide much help, not sure if I can now.

But I will say that you have been getting so much good advice, please do not let let your WW fog talk drive you to despair and self harm.

During fog I was a very nasty piece of work wanting to hurt my adorable H anyway I could. I'm not sure why, it was a crazy time full of hurt and pain and I could not see his pain except as a something to target on.
I was the horrible one the adulteress, HOW DARE HE feel hurt and pain like me!!. I said a lot of very hurtful things, I dont remember much of it but what I do I cringe in shame and wonder he can forgive.

Michael, you MUST detach yourself from her fog babble and abuse, Its a kind of insanity and the depths of withdrawal and A intensity seem to be a guide to the level of pain we ww want to inflict on those around us to make them feel like we do.

Please please go get some professional advice right away to help you through this, YOU are not responsible, YOU did not do this, YOU are not to blame.

The hardest thing a ww has to accept is that she IS the ONLY one responsible.
BUT SHE IS!!!

Please get some help to manage your own pain. EVERY day is a new start.

Michael, did you tell your doctor about this suicidal thinking? I certainly hope so, because a good doctor will be very cautious about what sorts of things he or she will prescribe for a person in that frame of mind.

It sounds like you did very well earlier tonight. Doing what you're trying to do takes incredible strength, and it's strength you have, I think.

But - and this is very important - you need to get out of the situation if it is going to cause you to hurt yourself or if it is going to make you hate your wife. Do not sacrifice your life in your effort to save your marriage.

Your wife will be so sorry one day for saying the things she's saying to you. Or she'll be gone, and you'll be better off without her.

You can't imagine it now, but it's true. Just hang on. And get help when you have these self-destructive feelings.

GC

Michael, did you tell your doctor about this suicidal thinking?

Well all righty then. This would be a good idea and well let me say that I am a leader by example on this one...My Dr. looked pretty worried when I admited it then drew blood. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Michael, please see your Dr. or get one if you don't have one. Make this happen NOW. I am wishing I had done this part 2 months ago.


Plan A = No denegration of OM

Why?
I try not to, but really do not have a clear understanding of why I do't get to call it like I see it?

<small>[ December 04, 2004, 01:40 AM: Message edited by: greergan ]</small>

Michael,

Considering suicide is serious!!

Please reach out for help.

Call 1-800-SUICIDE now.

YOU are important.

You matter!!

Michael,

I was online last night when I saw your name & that you had a dash & beside it was the phrase - Talking to wife. I should have stayed online. I knew you were going to need someone to talk to.

We are all very worried about you, Michael. Listen to me very carefully -- your W is in a very addictive state right now. ANYTHING she says will come out hurtful. When someone is running away from their addiction instead of facing it, they get VERY nasty. They take out all of their frustrations on the person who is closest to them. She sees that you are trying to help & she is SCARED. She doesn't want to let you help her. She is not READY for you to TELL her that she needs help. That she needs to do the right thing. She doesn't hear you. She is in a fog that has blinded all of her rational thinking & behaviors.

You, my friend, are the rock in this situation. I know it may not seem that way, but God is calling you to be the one who does the loving in this particular situation. God loves you, Michael. He wants you around. He wants you to live. He LOVES you. Please, Michael, for the sake of your children, at least, please reconsider your options. You have the option of quitting, that's always an option. But you also have the option of using this time to get really close to God & letting Him help you through this. Rely on HIm, lean on Him so strongly, He wants you to. He wants to reach out His arms, wrap them around you, and like the footsteps poem, carry you when you are so weary from walking.

You told me the other night that you were thinking of taking the kids out today. Do that. Do it now. Enjoy this time w/your children & really look at them. They love you, Michael. Would they want to lose their father? If anything, w/the way your W is behaving right now, they need you to be their stronghold. They need to see love through you, Michael.

The other night, you had attempted it. What happened? Your D called for you. Was that a sign, Michael? You bet it was. God does NOT want you to go out like that. He wants you to show His love to your children. He wants you to show His love to everyone. Please concentrate on your R w/Him, first & foremost. It will take your mind off of your W, and onto the One who is the MOST important through all of this. God. I know you're a Christian man, and I know you know what I'm saying to be true. If you do this, concentrate on your R w/Him, you will get yourself to the point that no matter what your W says or does, you will be happy. You will know that you are loved -- by your children, by your friends, by God Himself. You will be able to detach from your W for a while & let her come to terms w/what she's done on her own.

You telling her will not sink in, Michael. She needs to learn it on her own.

Please think about I'm saying. We all love you, we all give you great, big MB hugs {{{{{{{{MS}}}}}}} and want you to stay w/us!

Love in Christ,
Y

MSchluter,

We haven't posted to each other before. I'm a vet of the Boards. I'm reaching out to you. Please post here.

I've been where you are. Pain so intense you want to die to stop it.

Dreams of swimming in pitch black water. Dreams of swimming in filthy swimming pools, with dangerous sharp tree branches on the bottom. Dreams of finding dismembered corpses in my car. Dreams with the stench of death so bad it woke me up.

I came out the other side. Illusions gone, lies exposed. There are days I enjoy life so much now. It got better. So will your life. I promise.

Please, come here and talk to us. Any of us.

We're not just words on a computer screen. We are people and we care about you.

Michael,

Everyone here is worried about you....please let us know you are safe. We have some resources we can share that will help you. Don't give up, we are sending angels to watch over you!!!

Sorry for all the worry.

I Spent the night at a friends. I needed to figure some things out. I'm not sure who I am or what the ww is doing to me but I know I don't like the feeling.

I need to look at all of the advice that has been posted and come up with a Plan A that will keep her wondering. I need to find a way to re-charge my battery because I am so low on the energy chart right now.

GC: Whats your email address because I would Like to forward you my home number so in case I find myself on that dark road again. The ww laughed at me tonight when I got home. Yold me she was hoping that the car in the driveway was an officer bringing her good news...

Boy do I have a struggle ahead of me.


Michael~~

Michael,

Thank you for checking in....you gave us a scare you know don't you? What are you doing for Michael? If you're not seeing an IC...would you consider it? Can we help you find one?

Michael-
I am so sorry for you. Can I ask why you leave yourself in the house with her when she is like this? I realize it is hard to remove yourself form her thinking it is the last time you will see her, or that you are giving up- you are not. You are also not doing anything good for kids, your self, or your marriage. How can we help you here?

I am a firm believer in Plan a- however in a abusive situation verbally or physically I think it needs to go straight to Plan B. I did not and I put up with being dangled over stairs with him saying he would drop me, to being slammed into walls, dragged around the house by my hair, locked in rooms, and so much worse, not to mention the verbal abuse which was so much harder to take, as it hit me right to the core, a bruse that was not visable but was much longer in healing. I stayed because I was afraid if I left then I was giving up on the marriage. After 10 months of abuse H moved out, and he stayed out for over 2 months, and when he came back he has made huge improvements. THey would not have happened if I continued to live and breathe what H wanted. Please Michael do not do what I did, please get out of this bad situation. Either have her leave, or you take the kids and stay with a friend, or family. Save yourself some heartache while preserveing your dignity,

My disclaimer- I only know what i have read on this thread- and it scares me greatly. I am telling you this with concern.

If you need anything at all please do not hesitate to ask.

<small>[ December 04, 2004, 07:46 PM: Message edited by: KMEJ ]</small>

Glad to see you posting again. Please realize that what you are going through is temporary. Things will get better.

In the meantime, please check with your doctor or a counselor.

Your wife reminds me of Tom Joad's wife. She was always very hateful towards him. When they are addicted they act real crazy. Don't let that become your problem. Realize that nothing you do is going to be right and avoid her.

Michael, I'm very relieved. Please don't do that again.

I emailed you earlier today, so you should be able to respond to that. Did you get it?

I'm glad you got out of there last night. But you have a right to set a boundary for yourself. You may want to tell your wife that if she can't be civil, she is the one who should leave the house. Of course you can't force this on her, but don't be afraid to draw a boundary here. Don't be afraid it will destroy your marriage. Because it won't. Certain behavior is too much for anybody to take, and you MUST have clear boundaries for what you'll allow into your life. If she's hurting you so much you're entertaining self-destructive thoughts, you must separate yourself from her. It's a matter of survival and self-respect, and you mustn't give her permission to destroy that.

The WS can get very nasty. Mrs. TJ seems to be an extreme case, but yours is giving Mrs. TJ a run for her money these last few days, it seems.

GC

I'm sorry but ww deleted all my emails that I may have gotten. I told the ww tonight that she deserves to be happy and if that means her being with Om then she has my blessing. She is in a better mood since I told her to go see him tonight.

It feels good to let go of what I can't control. I was trying to believe that my wife was still inside the woman who commited the A but she is not. I'm not even sure I am the same person. I do know that I have three wonderful children who love me so much that it hurts me to see what she has done to them.

I can't say i'm ready for Plan B but I can say if she does go to OM tonight then I will be happy with the thought that she is happy.

I have been selfish these past few weeks trying to end what I can't control.

I don't know if I will survive the next couple days or even the next couple hours but I do know that for the sake of my children I will push through this.

I'm better then this, I need so much help right now I don't even know where to begin, I need to know that I will be ok, I feel alone and deprived but at least I have friends on MB that will help guide me to be a better Father and a better Man.