Well tonight when she got home from work I had dinner all done and the table set and coffee ready to go. I cleaned the house and fixed the vacumme cleaner like she has been asking me to.

I'm trying to stay away from R talks but it gets hard when I start to see hope and then I question her on it and then I get tons of that fog talk.

How do I stop the R talks and focus on her needs?

I appreciate all of the help that has been offered and I hope it keeps coming.

Right now I feel so completely lost and hurt, I want her to continue the honesty talks but I also feel that I need a break from it. But i'm afraid she will clam up and not talk anymore about it.

I need to get all my questions and thoughts down on one of these post's.

I tried talking to a friend of mine today about the A and he asked that I not involve him because him and his wife see me and the ww as friends and they don't want to be put in the middle.

I have been having a good couple day's but I'm still having thoughts that worry me...Please help.. I need a voice to help calm the thoughts..I have nobody to talk to in my real life

Mschluter,

I certainly undertand where you are coming from and that's why posting here helps. There are several things you can do.

1. Post here to help others. Dual type of therapy.

2. E-mail your MB contacts. I know some of the guys offered to e-mail with you right? If not, ask.

3. If an MBer is in your area, you maybe able to meet up. Be safe and stick to the same gender.

4. Get busy on a hobby or a project.

5. Take some classes or do some volunteer type of work. (Believer helps out at the hospital and has lend a helping hand to many). It is very rewarding work.

6. Do your journal.

7. Read your books. Caught up yet?

L.

I have only read SAA and Not just Friends, Grey cloud is sending my love busters, The local library does not carry and books on this matter, And I can't afford to buy them right now. so the few that greycloud has he mails them to me and I read them take notes and mail them back to him..

Check out the book Love must be Tough by Dr. James Dobson.

What are your thoughts about the other items? Any of them doable?

L.

I just posted looking for others in my area, The books are do-able if I can get other to maybe lend me a book to read. I can ask if others will give me there email addresses.

I think the rest is do-able...

Good we got you busy. MB needs a lot of help here and believe it or not, you've been here long enough to qualify to help. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Remember we offer our thoughts and support. To have the book info also helps us get our point across. Don't be disappointed that others don't get what you may write. I didn't get it at 1st either but they didn't give up on me. LOL!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Keep that journal, it c/b invaluable later. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

L.

As for the Journal, you mean on forums or my own personal Journal... I have never kept written record of my thoughts and have no idea where to even begin..

Personal journal with dates and times as needed. Interesting to review at a later date. Also helped me see my progress and the length of his stupidity.

L.

Hello Michael,

One of the dynamics that sometimes arises when a partner has been unfaithful is the "pursuit and withdrawal" syndrome. The hurt partner pursues the truth, pursues analysis of the conditions that led to the affair, pursues promises. And when it happens, often the wayward partner is not prepared to tell the story, is not capable of analyzing it with a clear head, and is not prepared to make promises. And so she withdraws, clams up and refuses to talk.

If this situation arises for you, it's good to recognize it and STOP the discussion in its tracks. At that point, the whole encounter has become destructive. It highlights the gulf between your perspectives, and it "rushes her heart", which makes her feel panicky, makes her want to run away. And when somebody in withdrawal from an affair runs away, they most always run in the direction of the affair partner.

I've found that friends who say they don't want to be put "in the middle" are terribly limited as friends. If they are willing to go bowling and drink beer and watch hockey (most years) with you, but will not offer themselves as comfort when you're in pain, and will not let you share things with them on that deeper level, then those friendships are less valuable anyway. They're the kind of friendships that, when somebody moves away, you often lose touch. I don't suggest writing them off, but there's no point trying to be friends with them when you're suffering. They just want to share leisure time with you, and if leisure activities are trivial and unsatisfying for you, then those friendships are not anything special.

Writing is good. I have a journal. I don't write in it regularly, and it's kind of a mess, but there are times when I find it in my bag and just go to town in there. You wouldn't believe the flood of words that can come off your pen when there's a lot on your mind. It helps you organize your thoughts, and it gives you something to look back on. I look at some of the things I wrote just three months ago, and they are sometimes surprising.

GC

I think I'll try it. I wish it had been something I did when I first realized my ww was in an A... Maybe then it would have helped me through some of these more troublesome periods.

WW seems very open right now with her telling of the A. Sometimes I will ask a question and she will answer it without pause. The day's she does not feel like talking -- I leave it alone, Because she has to do it on her own.

It seems she is going back to the no sex policy, lets see how long this will last. It seems sex has always been the issue in the M...

Me I like it a lot, my wife can go weeks at a time without it and then there will be times she wants it everyday for a month..is this normal or A related?

GC,

I hope things on your end get better, I have been trying to find your story on the forums, Is your story on here?

I need your address so I can send you back your book " Not Just Friends " Very good book, once I get the bills down I will be out looking to buy that one

Michael, just go ahead and wait for the next one; you can get my return address off there. I'm headed to the P.O. shortly to ship it off.

My story is pretty much told in the first 500 or so of my posts. Yikes, I'm approaching 2K.

I'll email you an installment or two if you'd like some light afternoon reading. (!)

I have no idea what the sex thing is about. A woman's sex drive often changes when she enters her 30s. It can be a contributing factor in affairs - a woman's sex drive increases, she's unaware of the natural change she's experiencing, she attributes it to other factors, and pretty soon all hell breaks loose.

GC

GC,

I could always use some light reading....

Today when she came home from lunch sge was on the attack. I simply told her I hope she feels good about thie things she is saying. She told me that she is only kidding herself, and that there is no way this M can be saved...Hmmm she must have been thinking it could... She told me she is now on day 18 of nc...

Long story short, when she left she gave me a kiss and said sorry for yelling at me..I told her it's ok and for her to have a good day..

Update: 12/09/04

I'm not sure what to make of anything so I will try to make this short and sweet and hopefully some of you will give me some pointer or some insight as to what I am seeing.

Ok.

I asked my ww why she wants to stay till June and this is what she is telling me.

ww: I want to stay so that during this time I can help heal you from all the hurt I have caused you and hopefully when June comes I can move on without you hating me.

ww: I do not want this to turn out to be an ugly divorce, I want us to be friends.

BS: What about OM?

ww: I can live without him and I can live without you. OM was not the cause or our problems and I now realize he was not the answer either and I'm sorry for hurting you.

WW: I just wish this CPS investigation would hurry up and get done with, I don't want people to think I'm a bad parent.

ww: I care about you Michael, I'm just not in love with you. I married you because I did not want to have another child out of wedlock.

bs: I know there must have been a time when you were in love with me?

ww: shook her head and said, At one time yes but I just can't take all of the crap that you have put us through, Your losing job after job, not talking to me, and i'm tired of all the fights we have had over these thing's.

bs: You never gave me the time or the support I needed, You always make me feel less then I am, I know I have had a lot of jobs but I have never put us in such a bad situation that we had to live in a dumpy house or in a bad area. I just don't know what you want from me anymore.

ww: I want to be happy, and if that means living alone without you and withoput OM then thats what I will do. I don't need anyone

bs: Does this mean that you are still going to stick to the nc rule?

ww: yes of course I am, I don't think you realize just how much I have been trying, I'm tired of hearing about my Affair, it has nothing to do with my thinking of leaving you a long time ago. I said I was sorry, and i'm trying to be honest with you. and I will send the no contact letter tonight if you want me too.


Well I put as much of our past conversations into a gist of things list.

So right now, i'm not sure where she is on the fence? IS she cake/eating or just fence walking?

She has now gone 17 day's with No contact and I have noticed that she has her good days and she has her very bad day's. I realize I am still (R) talking and that she may be getting tired of it.

So i'm really not sure if she is still staying till June or planning on just trying to make it through christmas with me and the kids.

The children have told her they have no plans on moving with her, My Daughter told WW that she will not allow her to drag her down the drain with her, why should she move with a person that has lied and broken so many promises. My Daughter is 12 yrs old and having a very difficult time forgiving ww for what she has done.


History: Daughter is not my real Daughter, ww and I met after she had Taryn ( Daughter ). Once me and ww got married I adopted Daughter and she was given my name. We told Daughter last yr that I was not her real father, WW explained to Daughter that her real Dad left her when she was a few months pregenant and cheated on her and then left her for the other woman. I started crying and my Daughter asked me why I was crying, I told her because I was afriad she would stop looking at me as her father, My daughter gave me a great big hug and said you will always be my Dad and my Father.

My ww's aunt know's a little about the sitch here and can't believe ww would even think about walking out on kids for another man. She was even more shocked when she found out WW had an A with the same person ten yrs before, it only lasted a month and she ended it on her own without the knowledge that I even knew until three yrs later.

WW came home in a grumpy mood today when I was being honest with her about some feeling's I was having, basic insecurities. She got really mad and made the statement that how can she work on the M when all I do is remind her of the A, I took this as a sign that maybe she is thinking about the M and is just waiting to see how I measure up at the end of May...

I would love some serious thought and feed back on all of this..I'm not having a bad day, but I am having a DAY.....

Hi Michael,
I wish I could come by more often.
I am glad you are back on a more even keel. All of us were worried about you. There are times that perhaps we should give more support, and less advice, but I missed it that time around.

Lets see where you are - and I remind you that we who come here are fellow travelers - not professional councilers. I still recommend you call the Harleys as soon as it is possible for you to do so.

Well tonight when she got home from work I had dinner all done and the table set and coffee ready to go. I cleaned the house and fixed the vacumme cleaner like she has been asking me to.

I'm trying to stay away from R talks but it gets hard when I start to see hope and then I question her on it and then I get tons of that fog talk.

Like Graycloud says - she doesn't have the answers you want. She can tell you (when she is in the mood) what she did, but she doesn't know why. In fact, right now, with the limited knowledge you have from reading here, you can probably understand her resaons better than she can.

Again, if you run the plan - with a end date in mind, you can judge your success on how you run th plan, now how she reacts from day to day. We promise you she will be up and down, in and out - not always making sense. Ignore it - and work your plan. You have until June, I think this is enough time. If you feel you are getting burnt out, you can move the date up.


How do I stop the R talks and focus on her needs?

If you have to, keep a score book. Gray suggests a journal - and this could be a part of that. If you do it, don't call it a score book, she might find it and read it. You can word it like this:

"I have made it my number one goal to become a much better husband, and father. No matter what happens with W and I, I can make myself into the kind of man that almost any women would love to be with. I am starting this journal to record my efforts.

Day one: Well tonight when she got home from work I had dinner all done and the table set and coffee ready to go. I cleaned the house and fixed the vacumme cleaner like she has been asking me to. I plan on helping more all my life, I feel marriage is a partnership, and I need to be a full partner, not a limited partner. I need to find W's needs, and meet them as well as I am able.

Part of my goal is to meet at least three of her major needs daily. Today I met ............Tomorrow, I plan to ......."

Does this make sense?
You write down what you plan to do, and put it in terms of being a better father, and husband. When you do things for, or with the kids, it will meet a need of hers also, so you get points for that too. No matter how she reacts THAT DAY, you can give yourself points in your mind for meeting your goal. Run this plan for at least three months, and till June if you can make it. When you get discouraged, read all the things you have done, and you may be able to see progress in her over time, where as from day to day, or week to week, it is hard.

I appreciate all of the help that has been offered and I hope it keeps coming.

We all work, and take care of our families too, so sometimes it's hard to get on AS MUCH AS WE WOULD LIKE. You'll get help, we really do care. I keep praying for you, as well as posting when I can.

Right now I feel so completely lost and hurt, I want her to continue the honesty talks but I also feel that I need a break from it. But i'm afraid she will clam up and not talk anymore about it.

Remember, we know that this is not fair. No matter what you did, or didn't do, there is no excuse for an A. It should be her that is doing all she could to make things right, but lets go back to the addiction analogy.

When a person is coming off an addiction, it is usually all they can do to just stay away from their "drug." It takes all their effort, all their strength. So, as we said before, you can treat it like that, and help her, or you can get on her case, and make it worse, or you can leave. I wouldn't blame you if you left, but if you are going to stay, help her quit the addiction. In fact, I wouldn't tell her "if he makes you happy, go be happy." Thats kind of like telling a drug addict "if Coke makes you happy, go ahead and use it." What she has already done has damages her emotionally, you can see it if you look at how she reacts. Part of her anger is the guilt she feels being directed at you. That's how addicts are, so, you can help, or..............

I need to get all my questions and thoughts down on one of these post's.

It's good to do that, because it helps you sort it out in your own mind so that when you talk, you have a better outline for those discussions. There are also some things you shouldn't talk about now, and we may able to help you with that. It's more a question of timing, not should you or shouldn't you ask. Some things will be better if left for later on.

I tried talking to a friend of mine today about the A and he asked that I not involve him because him and his wife see me and the ww as friends and they don't want to be put in the middle.
Graycloud is right about this, no need for me to repeat what he said.

I have been having a good couple day's but I'm still having thoughts that worry me...Please help.. I need a voice to help calm the thoughts..I have nobody to talk to in my real life

I am sorry that we all can't come more often. It will help if you spend this time trying to figure out what need you can meet tomorrow - putting the doubt and fear into making things better. I think there is a saying about that: "When the going gets tough, the tough get going."
I know buzz words won't win this for you, but think about that. Part of this is about changing your mindset so you are that kind of person. What women can resist a man that knows he can succeed, and that when things are the darkest, makes it work anyway. There is a lot more to this than just doing the dishes, it's an emotional thing too. It's an attitude of success, that she will be able to feel.
You're the MAN, and you have to believe that from your head, to the bottom of your feet. Everyone can change and improve - this is your chance to make some changes you always wanted to make.


WW seems very open right now with her telling of the A. Sometimes I will ask a question and she will answer it without pause. The day's she does not feel like talking -- I leave it alone, Because she has to do it on her own.

Remember to have fun times. OM didn't spend all their time talking about relationships. You need to figure out what needs he met, and meet them yourself.

It could be admiration, or affection, or recreational companionship. What things did you too do when you were dating, that she really emjoyed. Plays, movies? dinner out? Tennis, skydiving? Find them again, and go out with the pure intent to have fun. Make her laugh again.

It may be that she will feel you are faking it just to get her to stay. Practice something like this: " Well, I have made up my mind to change. I havn't been the father and H I wanted to be. I realize you are free to choose what you want. You can leave if you want, and I can't change that. It would make me very happy to be with you forever, to grow old with you, spend my life as your partner, but I can't make up your mind for you. I can tell you this, I will change, and I will be a better person. If you don't want me, I know some girl out there will be glad to have me, so my changes will continue, no matter what you do."

It seems she is going back to the no sex policy, lets see how long this will last. It seems sex has always been the issue in the M...

Me I like it a lot, my wife can go weeks at a time without it and then there will be times she wants it everyday for a month..is this normal or A related?

Lots of Gals are on/off. This is not unusual. The solution for this is the same, run your plan. And BTW, I think you have been doing a good job of it.

One of the reasons I suggested the Love Busters book is that it will help you understand some things that cause a net love loss that you may not be able to see yet. It doesn't matter how much you put in if it all leaks out as fast as it goes in. Love busters was my big problem when I came to MB three years ago. I wish you could feel what we have now, after following the MB program for three years. I think these feelings are what you are looking for.

One more thing before I go. She'll know if you are not genuine. You need to believe in what you are doing, and the best way to do that is to study, learn, and do some of what you learn every day.

I know you will have good days, and bad days, come talk to us when you need to.

SS

SS,

Beautiful post.

Love in Christ,
Y

Well I took your advice GC and started a Journal today..

Microsoft has a pc Journal that I have been typing in. I feel wierd writing in it, but i'm sure I will better understand things as the weeks go on.

I am seriously thinking about hitting the gym three times a week after x-mas.. right now funds are to tight..

Still Seeking,

I have so many questions for you and I will try and post them later tonight after things here settle down.

HELP

I just can't ****ing take this anymore, she is doing anything she can to make me miserable tonight. I gave her space and then went to sit with her for a while and talk and she goes. what now you wanna anoy me too......

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

It's going to be like this. She will be on and off - but you need to be on. Not happy mind you, but think of the best thing to say.

Remember, withdrawl. An addict in withdrawl. Do we help them, or do we take it personal?

You think she is doing this knowingly. She isn't. This is a chemicla reaction in her brain - I can't find the posts right now, but this is the truth. It's a chemical process, just like withdrawl from a drug, or alcohol. You know some days she is on top of it. She is not going to be all the time.

If it gets to you really bad, tell her that YOU need some space, and go play with the kids, or read a good book, or something, but DON'T TALK, in these situations, it leads to strong feelings. None of which help what you want to happen.

How are you now?

SS