My fww wife woke up this morning on a tear. She has pms I know and is stressed about some things at work.

She had sent me this article in my email and I mentioned that I had received it. She then started in *****ing about anything she could think of, then out of the blue said 'I wish the night you found out I was having an affair you hadn't told all your friends...now I will just have to wear a billboard that says I F'd around'

My response, I am sorry you had an affair too, you have to realize that the night I found out about it (she called me on the phone and told me) that I was in shock and hurting terribly..

I think that this is actually a sign that the fog is lifting, every day she feels worse about what she has done...we start MC on Tuesday...

How would you interpret this, did I LB?

I am sorry you had an affair too

This is FANTASTIC reverse babble. Orchid will be proud of you ! I am proud of you !

Your WW should know that it is not your exposure that makes her feel cheap it is her cheap actions that make her feel cheap.

When my Squid challenged me angrily over exposure I replied " I am sorry you feel that way, but know my every actions in done in support of what I think in prayer is best for our marriage".

I don't think you LBed at all.

Do not apologise for things post-d-day which hurt your W but were not LBs.

BTW that article is sheer rambling justification and a gross simplification of the true dynamics of affairs. Its perfect for a WS to say they were justified in infidelity.When they never never are.

<small>[ December 03, 2004, 06:05 AM: Message edited by: Bob Pure ]</small>

Got hit with something similar yesterday. She was very sarcastic when she said we should call my family first next time.

hmmmmm, next time? should this be a red flag darling?

My WW was/is very similar with regards to this. She's extremely angry with me that I told everyone. She has said that everyone hates her and its all my fault. My response has been, I've only told the truth?

The nerve eh? Getting angry at you for exposing their adulterous behaviour. Makes me sick!

Miker

Yeah, I'll have to admit, that was a pretty good comeback...he he..

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Bob Pure:
<strong>BTW that article is sheer rambling justification and a gross simplification of the true dynamics of affairs. Its perfect for a WS to say they were justified in infidelity.When they never never are. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Agreed. Unfortunately, my fww has always chosen to fill her head with garbage like that rather than quality reading material. She get's Vogue, Cosmo and several other rags that justify any sort of behaviour so long as one is happy...garbage..

This was my response via email when she sent me that article:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
I think we are both guilty of a lot of those things. I wonder sometimes if someone had come along and shown me the attention XXXXX showed you if I would have been the one to do this... I am just glad what happened has woke us both up. I am absolutely committed to being everything you need in this marriage if you will do the same for me. We will make it through this time and be better than before.

I love you.

Are there specific things in this article you are trying to tell me
about?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How did I do with that?

It was a real awakening to me about 4 months ago when I was asking FWH quesitons about the A...I ask about once a month...try not to dwell on it, he gets very defensive. But, he broke down crying and said he doesn't like to think about it because he feels so bad.

These FWS have to live with this shame and guilt the rest of their lives...next time ask her, "What can I do to help?" If she offers her suggestions that will be an opportunity for you to ask her for what you need too (i.e. Gentle with you, not too harsh, honesty about even casual contact with any other men, hugs when you're feeling down and hopeless, ways to give you hope, etc.)

Hurting Hoosier,

You may want to consider asking her the following:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Just like my love for you was tested after I found about your affair, their friendship will be tested as well, so isn't it better to know who our true friends really are?"</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">.

Hopefully she won't be too foggy to appreciate the truth behind such a statement.

TMCM

***Got hit with something similar yesterday. She was very sarcastic when she said we should call my family first next time.***

With a perfectly straight face, ask her why we *shouldn't* call her family first? Why should something so wonderful, something that obviously made her so happy, be hidden away in the dark? Wasn't she proud to be seen with OM? Wouldn't she want everyone else to know how great a guy he was and how happy they were to be together?

Why on earth would she want to hide something so great?

(Of course, the real answer is "Because I want to have both the security of marriage *and* the fun of dating all at the same time, and if you blow my cover I can't have that," but it can be pretty amazing to watch the wheels turn in her head when you ask her this.)

Like someone else here said -- if the WS gets angry over your sincere actions to save the marriage, you're probably doing something right.
Mulan

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by StillHereMakingIt:
<strong>

These FWS have to live with this shame and guilt the rest of their lives... </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I will take my shame and guilt to my deathbed....and if not for the existence of my son...there are times that deathbed was VERY close....

not ALL of us escape responsibility....not all of us want to...some of us have it shoved in our faces...and all we ant to do is retreat to where everybody doesn't think we are pieces of [censored]....

cause that's how it feels....like we are pieces of crap...everyone LOOKING....WHISPERING...GIGGLING...

yes, consequences of our actions....YES....deservedly so...

does this sarcastic attitude come from guilt and shame...mine does....

it did not help to move here, join my H and son, and have soooo many of his brand new aquaintences know the whole sordid story..(I had a same-sex A)...

...but only his perspective...no one here knows about his A 5 years ago...they don't know about all the dating and sex he had during our separation...they know I am a good-for-nothing cheat, wonder why the heck he wants to still be married, but have NO IDEA of his role in the circumstances that got us here....

he is a nut for wanting me back, and I walk around with the proverbial scarlett letter...

yes, we made our beds...yes...exposure was required....

it's just REALLY, REALLY hard to want to save a marriage when you feel like a piece of [censored]...

now I'm crying and have to go.....

Dylan

Boy, did this subject catch MY eye:

Isn't it just a riot how ws's want to escape responsibility for their actions

Just a week ago, during a short and friendly phone conversation with my WW, not talking about anything serious or remotely related to any of this stuff... she went into some spontaneous self-induced mini-tantrum, and blurted:

"HEY, ISN'T THAT WHAT YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO DO ?? BLAME EVERYONE ELSE?? NOT TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR OWN ACTIONS?? HUH?!?"

It was like somebody cut a little hole in her head and her conscience came spewing out. Yikes.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by soulloss:
...but only his perspective...no one here knows about his A 5 years ago...they don't know about all the dating and sex he had during our separation...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am aware ... as are many others.
There is a credibility gap ... and your point is not lost on many of us here.

A very large grain of salt is required when reading preachings and finger-shaking toward other posters ... when there is a very large stain on the preachers garment.

Just manage your own conscience and your own losses ... and you are going to be just fine.

Pep

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> These FWS have to live with this shame and guilt the rest of their lives... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No they don't. In fact, it would very unhealthy for them to do so and counterproductive to recovering their marriage.

Shame and guilt are emotional states. One can choose to wallow in it the rest of their lives or they can choose to right the wrongs and rise above it.

I, for one, no longer live in guilt and shame. I am living with integrity today and have nothing to feel shameful and guilty for.

Others who choose to behave badly towards me because of past actions have their own issues to manage. I understand it, but I won't be responsible for their choice to hold something against me after I have repented and corrected my behavior.

I won't wear the scarlet letter any more.

Low

Low

<small>[ December 03, 2004, 11:18 AM: Message edited by: LowOrbit ]</small>

my H exposed to almost everyone he knew...

his dad, brother..best friends, cousin,...his XW, his girlfriend in march...family friends...MB friends...our 7 year old got a full rundown about Mama and ****...

exposure ..... I understand...I truly do...

but, in my efforts 5 years ago to provide a safe haven for him to WANT to be in, I told close friends...mutual friends....

I STILL have not told my parents or any family...to this day...

I never wanted him to have to look at these people at family functions and feel judged or ashamed....I wanted to protect him...and I often still do...

but I don't have that luxury....and I fully understand it...

but fully understanding does not make it easier...

sometimes it feels like he was wrapped in the protective shroud of my love (bad, co-dependant, enabling behaviour...I know now)....

and when it was time to reciprocate, I feel like I was sandblasted...

our marriages and relationships require us to take 50/50% responsability... and we do...it just seems with exposure, those to whom the A is exposed, only get the one-sided version...

and we, the WS are left HEARING that our spouse takes responsability for their share of the health of the marriage.....but we SEE that WE are BLAMED by those the A is exposed to.

I'm still talking about FEELINGS...not factual data...

our guilt leads us to feeling judged...even perhaps, when we are not...

Dylan

Just got the call, on her lunch break.

Sorry about this morning..can't wait to see you tonight...the cycle continues...she said that her day is going crappy and on top of everything else she 'started'. I said that's good news for me and she said very funny..

I really have high hopes for MC to help us move out of this tire spinning phase..I started reading Torn Asunder last night and am about 130 pages into it..it's like looking into a mirror.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by soulloss:
<strong>I never wanted him to have to look at these people at family functions and feel judged or ashamed....I wanted to protect him...and I often still do...
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In my opinion he should have felt judged and ashamed and you shouldn't have protected him. Is that what led to you having your A, you didn't feel he "paid" enough for his A?

Just to answer my own curiosity... As both a WS and BS how could you have an A when you know how it felt to be a BS?

I don't think I would have ever had an A before I became a BS but now I know I would NEVER, EVER do it knowing how it feels to be a BS.

I do wish you peace Dylan.

Miker

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I don't think I would have ever had an A before I became a BS but now I know I would NEVER, EVER do it knowing how it feels to be a BS.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Famous last words. It's funny...I felt the same way not two or three months before my affair.

Just remember...the person who makes these statements is not the same person who has the affair.

The only constant in life is change. We WILL become different people tomorrow than we are today. We can "let it happen" to us OR we can take action to prepare ourselves for who we want to become.

Many of us to got into affairs were in a mode of "letting life happen to us" for some reason or another. For me, it was severe depression. Under these conditions boundaries are not firm and the moral compass can become askew. Things seemed to happen to me beyond my control.

So, let us be careful about such bold statements. More often, the effect is that people who have had affairs feel relegated to a class of sub humans.

More is gained by trying to build people back up than by shaming and guilting them even more.

Dylan, I noticed you are posting over on SYMC. That's good for you. Not as much traffic, but you can check your "scarlet A" at the door there.

Low

Hey Dylan,

Reading your post reminded quite a bit of the feelings I had when my FWH expressed his shame and guilt.

I don't think ANYONE can give you as hard a time as you give yourself.

Will you EVER forgive yourself?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by LowOrbit:
Many of us to got into affairs were in a mode of "letting life happen to us" for some reason or another. For me, it was severe depression. Under these conditions boundaries are not firm and the moral compass can become askew. Things seemed to happen to me beyond my control.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Low,

I find this very interesting... You don't have to answer my further questions if it don't feel comfortable doing so.

Did you consider the consequences of your actions or were you just going with the flow? Or did you think there would be no consequences?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
So, let us be careful about such bold statements. More often, the effect is that people who have had affairs feel relegated to a class of sub humans.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Please understand I'm not trying to be judgemental I'm just trying to understand some things that I don't understand from my perspective.

What I was trying to understand how things could turn around and do a 180... going from BS to WS.

I only know what it feels like to be the BS so that is the perspective I'm speaking from.

Miker

Ok, I need help with this reverse bable thing.

Because my ww is killing me with LB's and I'm doing the same thing right back, so maybe if I try reverse bable it will get her to leave me alone for a short time...

Sheesh, give us an example.