I've been around this site quite a bit the past couple of weeks, known about it for far longer, should have taken more notice then.

A little over two weeks ago I came home from a whirlwind around-the-world business trip and within less than 24 hours my wife of 18 months walked out.

There has been tension the past few months but this time she really left. She'd been doing some planning, had a place to move to within a couple of days, with a flatmate who had just broken up from a relationship as well, nearby neighbours in fact, but before anyone suspects there is nothing going on there, a roof of convenience.

This past week she has been interstate, I'm in Australia by the way, she returned today.

The period between her leaving home and leaving for interstate on business was very confused, on the first weekend I came close to a stroke, a good friend took me to hospital and my blood pressure was medicated down, but even before that my wife had backed away from an absolute split to needing some "space."

Before I go on I should say that there is a large difference in age between us, I'm 52, she is 26 next month, but we have been together seven years and there is, and remains, real love between us in my opinion.

She is my third marriage and I was simply not prepared for the pain, I didn't think I could be hurt this way again.

Thus far, apart from leaving I would define the split as being characterised by "no slamming doors."

Every thing she has done thus far is readily reversible, she even stresses this, we talk and meet often, she was very upset over my near-collapse and was here very quickly after she found out.

She has taken very little from the house, not re-directed mail, talks of trying to resolve the problems between us and has set me on a course of defining and correcting a number of issues that I was well aware I had, most particularly living an invented past, something that I took to protect myself, no need for detail, but call it post traumatic stress syndrome, many years ago.

I've confessed all in that regard, a huge relief and a realisation of how stupid I had been for so long.

Now she talks of needing to forgive me, of needing to go and live life for a while, of never having been independent, of needing to be not near me for a while, yet she is visiting tomorrow.

I don't know what to expect, of the visit or of the coming time.

I love her very much and I'm painfully aware that I have not given her what she needs the past year or more, I've been very busy on a new company venture, travelling a lot, on-line a lot, she says she felt lonely even when I was here, and I understand that.

I'm seeing a counsellor over my issues and that seems to be going well, very early, but promising, but her only approach to resolving her own issues, and she has several, is to "go live life for a while."

Financially she is already in some difficulty, and I don't know what to do about that, assist her and not only do I enable her to stay away but I also remove that independence she wants.

To me this is a problem we should be fixing proactively together, perhaps date for a while whilst living apart, rebuild the lovebanks, but she says she is not yet ready for that.

Just as with any story in here I would imagine, there is much more to this tale, my teen daughters from a previous marriage for example, whom she loves and who love her, but the essence is this:

She has left but not made it final, she says she needs to live life a while, she knows how analytical I am of nuances in these situations, she was there during my last break up and is being very careful of what she says, but her body language, and actions, are not of someone leaving for good.

I'm very afraid of being hurt multiple times if that changes, but I'm willing to do anything to restore our marriage, better than before, and I'm already taking steps in that regard.

It bothers me that on the surface all she has done is leave and move into a comfortable situation, leaving me lonely and alone when my daughters are not here, but I doubt what I perceive in that regard is really correct, she shows signs of being much more confused and stressed than she would confess to.

So, is there hope here? Or was I a fool to marry a younger woman who as she quite rightly says has lived her whole adult life with me?

Thanks for any help offered.

Hello Chrisg,

Welcome to MB.

I have a few questions to start off.First,you are here on an Infidelity message board.Do you think your W is being unfaithful to you?

Second,you mentioned that this current W was there for the last break up you had(assuming second marriage).What was the nature of your relationship with your current W back then? It seems to me that she was VERY young at that time to be around you and I'm not sure what was going on.You stated you have been together for 7 years but I'm not sure how long you were married.In any event,you are correct that she was very, very young to be involved with you and I can't say I'm surprised that she is feeling that she wants to see what it's like out there now in the world perhaps without you,especially if someone else is there waiting.

In my case as well,my WH and I began dating when we were teenagers and now he has admitted to wanting to know what it is like with other women.So,he has destroyed our marriage and family for this quest.The similarity here being that he was young and involved with me at an early age.This can be,not always,a potential problem for the future.I had hoped it wouldn't be for us since I felt we had something extra special being together for so long and I wanted to grow old with him.

The other similarity I see is that my WH also spent a great deal of time either away on business or working late and when he was home,he was on the computer a LOT.More so in the past few years.That tied in with my WH's withdrawal from the marriage I think.I feel this was a recipe for disaster and it was.I knew I would never cheat on my WH despite the fact that things weren't so great all the time but he definitely found a willing partner in crime and then the adultery happened and now a D is underway.

Out of curiosity,why do you think yout other two marriages failed?

O

Hmm,

Part of the longer tale, both marriages, this and the previous, have been open, not so much from my side as theirs but I was having a thing with my now wife at the time of my divorce.

I've not been in favour so much of that ever since but it was a little late.

My now wife definitely has no one waiting as you put it, somewhat the opposite, she's avoiding that complication I think.

I hesitated to post that because this board hardly encourages open marriages and I think I have come to agree on that.

We need to work through some of the questionaires etc on here is my belief.

As to why the previous marriages failed, the first was my wife of 11 months leaving me for another man, the second was never clearly defined. There was another man, but it didn't last.

My wife was 19 when I met her, young yes, but she had lived a lot. I was more than worried about her lifestyle at the time and went out of my way to get her away from it, I suppose in a way I succeeded too well, but my ex-wife would not point to that as the reason we broke up.

Rather torrid I suppose, but it doesn't seem to have anything to do with what is happening now.

Hi again,

Thank you for being open and honest about your past.I'm sure it wasn't so easy.I would imagine that most of us here do not agree with open marriages,you are right but you are here seeking help so don't worry.Perhaps you could peruse the other boards for some insight as well such as the Emotionnal Needs board,Negotiating and Resolving Conflict.There is a lot of heavy duty discussion about the pain of Infidelity here so I am not sure this is the best place but stay if you like.

Have you considered counseling together? Would your W be open to that?

A long thread we have going here on this board is about boundaries and how many of us have let those boundaries slide in favor of keeping our spouses with us,etc.If you had an open marriage without much expectation to fidelity and the sanctity of marriage then it's no surprise that your W may not be taking it as seriously now.

Your W isn't here to speak for herself so we could not be sure what is going through her mind and why exactly she wants to leave but you have to decide if this is acceptable for you.Do you let her go off for however long and pursue her "dreams" or desires while you wait at home or do you make a stand for THIS marriage and work to make this one last?

I have to disagree with you on that the past doesn't have a hand in our future.How we react in the world and what we allow and accept is a predictor into our future relationships and interactions with other's.It sounds like you have been a BS twice and then got involved as a WS during the vestiges of the last marriage.And,the current W who may have lived a lot but was yet still very young and has known only you as her supporter these past years.You also state that you went out of your way to take her out of her past lifestyle and that to me says again,inexperienced in the *appropriate ways of life.Positive decision making processes.

It may very well be that she considered you,to some degree,a father figure and has now grown up and is seeking life without that guidance.What do you think?

You also said that your W was visiting today.How did that go?

O

I'm sorry it took a few days for me to reply, my work dragged me out of the country again and it is about to do so yet again tomorrow.

That's been a pattern this year, and doubtless it hasn't helped.

My wife's visit didn't happen in the end, she called too drunk to drive, had been drinking with her father from early morning. She tried to sober up but failed so she called again and we had a long talk.

In that conversation she said some things like needing to work her way through forgiving me again, and carefully said that right now she has to think of me as her ex-husband, but went on to say that was just to get her through the now, not necessarily permanent. She has taken off her rings. She also talked about my parenting skills, or her concept of my lack of them. That revolved around her upset that my 17 year old had not had a birthday cake this year. Bizarre, my daughter was not with me on her birthday, her mother let things slip, not me, in fact when my daughter did come over the next day we had a great time together and cooked her favorite meal.

I'm certainly not a perfect parent, who is? But I don't think I've done too badly in the circumstances, my kids love me, and vice versa. Perhaps I focus a little too much on making sure they are materially provided for and protected, but that's the role I see that a father has to fill.

Since then my wife and I have talked often, she came over every day whilst I was away to feed the pets and was here when I got home. I called her as I always do when I arrived at my destination. She was asleep but when I called next morning she was fine and we chatted.

The conversation on my return really added very little that has not already been said, she had taken a few more of her things whilst I was away, as I had known she would, but by no means all. The main thing that came out was that there is every likelihood that she simply cannot afford to live on her own on her wage, not with the commitments she has. She still hasn't paid me money she promised she would, last months mobile phone bill and car payments, nor has she yet done as she promised and moved the regular payments to be taken from her new account.

I haven't pressed on those because she doesn't have any money and I know it, but I refused to give her any more, that's not helpful to her "independence" in my view. I did suggest she put her credit card away for the duration, she said she didn't have the choice it being Christmas.

She's never been bad with money, but she has always spent more than she earns and probably not really understood all the hidden costs that go on in running a household.

One significant thing she did say was that she has lots of people telling her to get over this and get back to her marriage. Her somewhat bitter comment was that she feels as if I have had an affair, which I have not, but she feels that way because I lied to her about myself a long time ago. that was as I said in the first post my having a false personality, for want of any other way of putting it, something I constructed decades ago as a means of surviving a series of very hard knocks but that came to get out of control. I suppose I can understand that, it could well feel as if I was having an affair with myself.

But her specific point was that if in fact I had had an affair she would be getting more support for her actions.

Since then she has been away again on a weekend with a group of friends, a regular event that I was to have gone on as well. She called when she got back to tell me she was ok, we had a bit of a chat, but only on everyday subjects.

Tonight she is coming over to visit my children and I suppose we will talk some more as well.

It will have been a month at the end of this week, not long I suppose.

You mentioned in your post that I must decide if I want to fight for this marriage. Yes I do, but I've no idea how, virtually everything that I can see that I could do would be likely to just aggravate the situation and make her less inclined to return. I would have thought that all I can do is be patient, but any advise you have in that regard would be much appreciated.

Many thanks.

Hi again Chris,

I am on my way to bed for the night but wanted to check in and say I will post a longer response probably tomorrow.Hopefully some other's will chime in here too with some advice.

Hang in there.

O

Hi,

Thanks for that.

I missed a couple of points in your last post.

Father figure:

Yes very probably, but I think its rather significant that when she left her father was staying with her within a couple of days and will be there for quite a few weeks. He is retired and travels around Australia in a bus, but he put his plans on hold when he heard what was happening and came straight back.

He and I get on well, he lived here the first half of this year, I've only seen him once this past month, he was fine, just kept saying we had to sort it out and that he had no animosity.

There's an odd story actually:

A few months ago my wife's car would not start one morning. In typical male fashion her father and I started sorting it out, discussing alternatives. Meanwhile my wife tried to call the auto club to get it fixed. She could not hear the prompts over us talking so she hung up and took his car to work in a huff. A few hours later she sent me a long "I'm leaving" email.

I persuaded her to come home, we talked, resolved the issue fairly well, she then asked to go see a friend and think it over. She did that and called me a few hours later to say it was ok she was not leaving, but she had been drinking so she stayed the night and came home in the morning.

She explained how she felt, two men had looked after her all her life, her father then me. It's rather at the root of this thing I would guess, but she can hardly be independent when one of those men comes straight back to support her.

He is not giving her financial support that I am aware of however, I don't think he can afford to.

You might notice alcohol figuring a bit here. I think that also has its place in all this. She has commented to people that I was drinking too much. probably she was right, I stopped a few weeks ago and have had hardly a drink since. I'm no alcoholic, just had a stressful few years. My wife normally drinks far more than I do, can get very drunk. mid-year she went on a diet and it involved no alcohol. Our problems seemed to really start about then. Two months later we had a holiday in Bali and she rewarded herself for the weight lost by going off the diet for a week, and she drank quite a lot. Since then she has not been drinking as regularly, but she has binged a few times.

I've a feeling that sober she didn't like herself too much. A psych will tell you that when someone encounters that they tend to run from things, including relationships. All a theory, but I do wonder.

Counselling:

At this stage I think she would say no. It is on my list for when/if things improve however.

Other things to fill out the picture:

The word divorce has not been mentioned once, nor has even separation, and certainly not lawyers.

She gave me a carte blanche to call her anytime. Initially I called too much, now I'm holding myself back and waiting for her to call, which she does. However she did say at the last meeting we had that seeing me hurt her at the moment so she wanted to reduce that. Then again she immediately followed that by promising to call after her weekend away and organised to visit this evening.

That might explain why I think she is severely confused at the moment.

She has also said point-blank that she loves me, but is wondering if love is enough.

Well, in my experience love is always enough, and as much as I can I've been rebuilding the bank, flowers and small gifts and making sure she is ok.

She has similarly been about as gentle as it is possible to be with me, being careful not to say anything hurtful, neither getting my hopes up, nor dashing them.

It's all a bit strange really, and likely to change before long, I'm jut worried in which direction it will change.

Thanks again for listening.

Hi Chris,

Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner.I happened to get a cold and have only posted a couple times since.

Anyway,well,all I can say is I think your current wife is conflicted and obviously,alcohol isn't any approriate way to deal with issues one may be having but it's not so easy to just stop.Behavior patterns,espeically bad ones,are hard to break and it sounds to me like the two of you are on slightly different paths right now.That's hard to reconcile if counseling is not an option or desire.You both may just end up cruising down your separate paths indefinitely if you don't work *together on the marriage itself.It's doomed.

Again it comes down to what you are willing ot live with.You can't change anyone but yourself,which is a common "mantra" here at MB and a lot of us do ask ourselves what we are willing to continue to go through for marriage.You can quickly start leading separate lives if the marriage isn't taken as a priority.That is already happening for you.

Since there has not been any Infidelity right now that you are aware of,I am not sure this is the right place for you.Have you tried the other boards here(emotional needs,resolving conflict,etc)?I think it's safe to say that if your wife doesn't do anything to work on the marriage or needs to "find herself" or whatever,you have some difficult decisions to make and no one here can make them for you.You may need to let her go at some point and let her grow up.

Sorry if this wasn't helpful and that you didn't get many other responses here.It's a bit unusual but again,there's no cheating going on so try the other boards.Also,I would suggest some reading about relationships perhaps.Dr.Harley and Dr.Phil have some that are helpful,how to rekindle a relationship,etc.You could always try counseling yourself too,just to talk about your feelings,how to go about the situation you are in and it may even draw your wife in to deal with her own inner problems.

Much luck to you!

O

Sorry for my delay in replying, I saw your post whilst I was in Malaysia but the web access was so bad that I couldn't reply.

Ironic, I'm up there selling a software product that accelerates the net but the ISP I was connected to hasn't bought yet.

I hear what you are saying, and yes I did post in the wrong area, not familiar with the site as yet to that degree.

I'm not at all sure however that our paths are separate, certainly not diverging, it really does seem as if she is working her way through her feelings and needed to do that away from me. I suppose I can understand that, it was not me that precipitated this break if that's what it is but I certainly took it as a wake-up call and made a lot of changes in and of myself very quickly. Now I see it as me waiting, a very hard thing to do, whilst she catches up.

She was here at home waiting for me when I returned from my trip, she looked after the pets whilst I was gone. We had a nice inconsequential chat and now do not expect to see each other all week but she is coming over Christmas Day for a few hours.

I have to keep remembering that the necessary thing to resolve this situation IS time, and not get worried that days are passing, that's a good thing.

Anyway, thankyou again for listening, I'm going to practise as much patience as I possibly can and I may post in other areas of the board as things progress.

Cheers

I am very confused about your post...gonna ask some questions to see if i can't get a better grasp on this...

lots of red flags in your post and marriage...some not of your control....some very much in your control...but before anyone can advise...
it' gotta be a little more clear what is going on....

are you really married to her...and you started seeing her when she was 18 and you were 45...
that's a pretty big red flag right there....
eighteen yearolds don't have the same life and relationship experiences that 30 and 40 year olds do...
third marriage as well...

Part of the longer tale, both marriages, this and the previous, have been open, not so much from my side as theirs but I was having a thing with my now wife at the time of my divorce.

just to be clear...

second marriage and this marriage have dating third people involved on both sides.....

and this then eighteen year old girl is someone you were with while still married to your second wife...correct...

OK lets be real..all of these things are real red flag issues....
some of these things you obviously can not control or change.....
BUT you MUST take control and change those things that you can...IF you want to for perhaps the first time have a real marriage in which two people partner, nuture, and nourish one another...

and the first key is letting go of all your fears..

fear of being hurt
fear of someone knowing the real you...

first..

what are the exact concrete reason she stated for leaving....

second..

If you don't believe in open marriages..then why in God's name are you agreeing and living one...

when you live a way that is not in line with your beliefs out of fear or whatever other emotion you use to go against what you believe...the house is built on sand...and will crumble...

YOu must set the limit and boundary NOW that if this is the case..you no longer desire or plan to live in an open marriage...
open marriages undermine the exact the meaning of marriage..they are in direct conflict of what marriage is...

she called too drunk to drive, had been drinking with her father from early morning. She tried to sober up but failed so she called again and we had a long talk.

Is this normal behavior...for her to be drinking in the morning with her dad..then too drunk to see you or anyone...
big flag....

Well, in my experience love is always enough, and as much as I can I've been rebuilding the bank, flowers and small gifts and making sure she is ok.

is not enough.....
you need to show her consistant actions that show you have changes...especially addressing the issues over why she left you....

most particularly living an invented past, something that I took to protect myself, no need for detail, but call it post traumatic stress syndrome, many years ago.

are you saying you told her lie upon lie...not clear what this means...but it must mean something since you mentioned it...

the more you break down the issues..the more easily people can help you address them..

ark

A little over two weeks ago I came home from a whirlwind around-the-world business trip and within less than 24 hours my wife of 18 months walked out.

As to why the previous marriages failed, the first was my wife of 11 months leaving me for another man, the second was never clearly defined. There was another man, but it didn't last.

These are 2 of your 3 marriages...I am curious as to how long the other one lasted. You can measure them in mere months. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> That does speak volumes to me.

Have all your marriages been open marriages?

Have all your marriages been with girls young enough to be your daughter?

Have YOU had counseling to determine what YOUR contributions are to all these failed marriages?

There are so many red flags it would be impossible for you to get the help that you need here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Seek help IRL...find a good therapist and counselor. You need to fix YOU before you can hope to have a lasting meaningful relationship with anyone else.

JMHO
committed

Hmm,

Interesting questions, most of them are actually more of a dynamic thing than what exists in my thinking now, but lets try.

I used to think an open marriage was an answer to affairs, you didn't have to take the freedom, but both my wives who were offered it did, I did not, until I met my now wife whilst married to the last and discovered it was a lie by my ex, it was actually a one-way street.

Yes, my wife was very young when I met her, if you want to live vanilla then please, do so, but I'm not a believer in many so called conventions, including age differences. We gel, this current situation aside, and it has nothing much to do with the age difference. I'm young for my age, she's old for hers, and yes, we were married 18 months ago after several years together.

That is a part of what causes me confusion and her distress, she had all the time in the world to NOT marry me, but she did, then 18 months later precipitated this...

Fear....yes, you are quite correct, its a very long story but fear made me to be a liar, initially only to myself, but it leaked, building an image I could live with but finding myself telling others about it....juvenile, but it happened, and there was no reason really, I'm
a rather competent and capable person overall, very smart and very well heeled, just a mess when it comes to relationships.

My wife and alcohol......Yes, being drunk before noon when with her father on escape holidays is not at all unusual. She worships her dad, I like him, but he's a weak and wasted human being overall. She thinks he drinks to enjoy life, I know better on that, he drinks to forget life and she blindly follows his example, not nice.

Showing her changes...that's a little hard right now, she isn't ready for a date yet, but our communication channels are wide open, there is nothing being hidden, she's just working her way through to feeling strong enough to give it one last try.....

That is very brave of her if you think about it, but she is not certain yet, and I have to remain exposed to further pain whilst she works her way through it.

Your questions are interesting and challenging ark, like every tale here I'm sure there is a lot of detail, some significant, some not, that directs the responses, some of yours are way off but not your fault, you're working from what I've posted.

I have no idea how on this board to move to more direct communication, but I'd happilly talk with you if you were willing, in whatever medium, not so much for privacy, not interested, but for broader communication.

Cheers

I used to think an open marriage was an answer to affairs,

and what do you believe now is the answer to affairs...
and what does your current wife believe is the answer to affairs...

the longer we live..the more life experiences we are exposed and the more time we learn from our mistakes and from our triumphs....

compound this with your wife leaving you and saying things like...
me, of needing to go and live life for a while, of never having been independent, of needing to be not near me for a while, yet she is visiting tomorrow.

may very well be a direct reflection of her age of being with you....seven years...

has nothing to do with liking vanilla...
it is a fact that you can not sweep away....that may very well need addressed...
she may use the age difference as a weapon against you...

she has been with you a long time ....some of it still very much a young one if not more child like...

but fear made me to be a liar, initially only to myself, but it leaked, building an image I could live with but finding myself telling others about it....

how are you addressing this issue now...
how are you disclosing your lies...
are you telling them willingly or is she others finding out...

what is her reaction to finding out this and or that was a lie...
this is a big deal to her...
how much of her marriage and time with you does she view as all a lie....

that's a little hard right now, she isn't ready for a date yet, but our communication channels are wide open,

dating is not the answer...
you need to go way back to basics..

you need to build honesty
you need to build fidelity
you need to build an environment of truthful communication..

how much do you travel
how much time are two seperated

who is having other relationships outside of the two of you..

this is not about dating..
this is about learning to be a team..that turns to one another with the good and bad..

this is perhaps creating your marriage for the first time..

ark

Um, committed....you need to read it all....

My first wife was a four year relationship, 11 month marriage, she was two years younger than me.....

My second wife is eight years younger than me,and we were married for 14 years, two gorgeous children, open for half of it. The first marriage was not open, she cheated on me, possibly what opened my eyes, erroneously, to the concept of open relationships.

I've had and continue to have a deal of counselling, but to be honest its of limited value.

The raw opinons of a board like this are much more pertinent. No offence to any counsellor reading this but you haven't lived my life, so how can you critique it?

On an open board like this it is far more likely that I'll encounter someone who says "yes!!! I've been there!!! I get it, this didn't work, this might, and by the way, we are both completely messed up, but you know that....."

Contrary to a lot of things here, and by the way I think this site is fantastic, wish I had found it long ago, or to be fair taken notice of it long ago, known about it for a while, but life is not a formula and we are not robots, or if we are then I just lost all interest in living....

Cheers

Um, committed....you need to read it all....

I did. I was merely asking some questions about the women that you choose to marry...agewise...and then I did ask if all the marriages were "open". I did not see all that information before I asked.

On an open board like this it is far more likely that I'll encounter someone who says "yes!!! I've been there!!! I get it, this didn't work, this might, and by the way, we are both completely messed up, but you know that....."

Ahhh...those were the type of responses you were looking for.

Thanks for any help offered.

I guess I took that last statement to heart.

I cannot offer the responses that you are looking for...so I will bid you good luck. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

committed

ark, I hear all you say, it's not quite on the same wavelength, but I'm not arguing. My wife and I have not discussed affairs yet, I don't think there is a defense, apart from total commitment and honesty, and I've always wanted that.. . but was knifed a long time ago....

My wife has not used the age difference other than in terms of children, and we discussed and agreed on that long ago, we want children. She is not a woman who has any real interest in men her age, other than snack-food sex, as I call it.

Yes, we are both rather messed up I've just been in the blender longer....:-)

I hear exactly what you are saying about back to basics, tyranny of the text media and getting meaning across, it is exactly what I am trying to position with my wife...

Again tyranny of the media, forget the age thing for a second, I love her, deeply and totally, and it is the same from her side, but we both have a lot of ghosts and demons, mostly but not entirely from before we met.

It is my belief as time goes by, that she has been a very wise woman and forced this crisis point, both for me and for her.

The wake-up!! call got to me immediately, I did a lot and continue to do so, for her it was always going to be a question of time and vulnerability, but thus far it looks good.

The uncertainty is what is eating at me like acid, but I have to cope with it if I want this to work out, so I am.

The hardest part is defintiely yet to come, IF she has the courage to return then we have to work hard at the whole relationship, using tools from here at first.

We have discussed that briefly, she knows its not a case of just bringing the bags back.....

I wait, not happily, but I wait.....

Cheers

Ah, I'm sorry committed, no, I was not looking for particular responses, I simply believe that evidence from the field has more credence than theory.

Thankyou for your best wishes, I hope with all my heart that they are not wasted.

Cheers

chris...

what are the reasons she stated for leaving you.....


plain concrete reasons...

be them misperceptions from her
be them fact...

why did she leave you...

ark

Hi Ark,

That is actually very fuzzy.

She talked a lot about not being sure if she wanted me to be the father of her children, she talked about deserving better, I've been extraordinarily busy this year, she said it reached the point where my being away no longer mattered to her, I was scarcely here when I was home, so busy.

In summary I had not been giving her anywhere near enough time and affection, and when I tried to sometimes she was hurt and resisted accepting my attempts to make it better.

Then it evolved, I came clean on the real events of my early life. I had fabricated a story, long before I met her, to cope with a series of early life traumas, two girlfriends who died in tragic circumstances and being in the midst of a huge storm that killed many people. It's very hard to explain now but back then I just buckled and found I had to build a new personna to face the world. I'm told that is not so unusual, but it came to take over my entire life in very unpleasant ways. I see that now, I didn't before.

Once I confessed her reason became a need to forgive me, but the reality is that she doesn't have a clear reason in her own mind, just a need to get away for a while, to see if she can actually live independently.

It's been a very hard few years for us both, I do understand her need for some clarity and solitude but you need to appreciate that within 24 hours of her leaving it became a case of "give me some time" and from then until now we have been in continual communication, frequent contact and virtually no conflict other than the very few times that I have pressed her to come back when she was not yet ready.

Even then it has not devolved into a fight, just a heartfelt plea to let her work herself through it and not to force her hand because right now her decision would be the one I don't want to hear.

That of course would be equally facile, her mind could still change, but I'm not going to push her into that, I've backed off and let her have the time and space she seems to need.

It has been a case of two people both with problems having to face up to them and become whole in order to go forward. I'm one of those people that once the light goes on starts working on things quickly, I feel hugely better and am busy working through my problems, she is just letting time do some healing first before she faces her demons.

Oh yes, she is well aware she has some issues to face, alcohol, her parents' utter sham of a now broken marriage, her promiscuity, her moodiness, other less significant things, but her focus was on my issues rather than hers for a while.

I'm becoming moderately convinced that we will make our way through this and create an opportunity to rebuild stronger and better, neither of us are particularly good at relationships, we certainly have abused this one, but there seems to be a lot of love and lot of desire to make it work.

She's just not ready to commit to that yet.

All of which leads to uncertainty on my part, it could go wrong, it could go the other way, so I'm riding the roller-coaster and trying to stay positive but am not able to all of the time.

Cheers

I've stopped doing that now, and I'm waiting

Chrisg,

Interesting post!

She is not a woman who has any real interest in men her age, other than snack-food sex, as I call it.

Oh yes, she is well aware she has some issues to face, alcohol, her promiscuity, her moodiness,

Please explain why her promiscuity would be an issue when the open marriage life style promotes the snack-food sex?

Could it be that this 18 year old was mesmerized by you, the older Svengali, teaching (preaching) open marriage and when she found out your previous life was a lie, she is realizing that her last 8 years, living the open relationship scenario, have also been a lie.

Or maybe not a lie more than the wrong path. Especially because of her parents' utter sham of a now broken marriage,

Not critiquing at all.

Just wonder how that open marriage thang has worked out for ya? You indicate that it was a mistake. Correct?

k