I am not sure what more I can do. I cannot make him leave. It is his home also. I am a stay at home mom. I do not have money to pay our mortgage. Also the lawyer said that I would need to come up with 7500 which I don't have.

Maybe my only option is to sit down with him and come up with some kind of divorce agreement. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Lemon,

Maybe I am!!

SML,

He wants a single life? Who is going to take care of his older child? He can have the D but he is still obligated financially. So what sort of freedom is he referring to? Moral? Emotional? Mental?

In reality he will never lead the single life again. Never. Tell him that and see what he says. Of course he maybe angry but he is the one who keeps losing his pants.

What is his friend, his new partner? I mean really, he has an OW and now needs a man to protect him so he can bully his way into the house? What a man, he lost something when he went out of town...... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

He is being nice because he wants something from you. He wants to buy your silence. Then he will come back and torture you and your family when you don't give him what he wants. So this is temporary at best. Is it worth it?

Sorry for all the questions. I am fuming here and there isn't much more I can do than to ask these questions to make you think.

L.

When he said he wants to be single again. I did make the comment that he will never really be single again. He will always have obligations. That when he is with OW he lives the single life because he leaves all the obligations to me. So really when he is with her it is not reality.

My mom told me today to stand up for myself. Don't let him bully me. He also told me today that he wants to do as much for me as possible. But he was just making a statement last night if I kicked him out and he has no place to live he has no job.. Then no money to pay the mortgage. He feels I am trying to be spiteful.

I am trying to get my things in order and take it from there.

As hard as it w/b, could you or would you give him his son when he leaves? I know you love the child but if he doesn't acknowledge that it is his son and his sole responsibility, you w/b obligated to which c/b more than you can handle.

I know this sounds cruel but then again, no more than he is doing to the entire family.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> very <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

L.

When I did make the comment about he would never truly be single again. He laughed and said that was funny. Only reason he wants to be single again is to be free to date this girl and do the things he wants to do without guilt.

You are very right regarding his son. I told his sister just yesterday that if he left this time that he would need to take his son. Because I have been giving him the freedom to live like he is a single guy when he moved out 2 months ago. The only thing is when he goes to see OW he will just drop him off at his moms house. Because his mom will not turn away her grandchildren. So OW will never really be around his kids and never be around the real man he is. I don't want to make his son leave. He tells me all the time he wants to live with me. I hate to take away the only stable home he has. But I think no matter if I make him take him or if I wait till he has everything together then decides to take him. It's going to happen. I feel sorry for him. I am the only mom he has really known. He calls me mom. Now he will be taken from his stable home that he has lived in for almost 4 years, away from his brother and sister, away from his school and away from the woman he calls mom.

I guess I can't understand why my husband does not want to try when we have so much to lose. I guess losing the OW is to much for him to handle so getting rid of our life is the much easier choice.

He took his friend out to buy some things he needs. But that was just a excuse to go out when his free cell minutes kick in. It just hurts that he continues to do these things no matter how it makes me feel. No matter how hurt I am.

Ow's comment yesterday was if I don't like being hurt by him then leave him. Course he says the same thing. They both want me to be the one to start the process. They act like I am the bad guy. Saying I am spiteful and crap. I have done nothing. I feel I have done everything in my power to save my marriage. Throughout our whole marriage I would have done anything for this man. I totally loved him. I still love him but I am losing my respect for him. I made him my world. And I guess that is where I made a mistake. Now I just need to figure out what I can do to move on and if things don't turn around figure out how I will manage without him in my life. I know I will make it. It will be hard on me but I will come out with my head held high. Unlike my husband and OW they will have many things to answer for one day.

R U cooking and cleaning for him and his friend?

Did you let his friend know that the OW called and what she said?

Is his friend going to pay U back? Is this friend working?

Is this friend a BS?

Does his friend know how much you are charging him to stay there or is he working for his keep?

L.

Nope his friend will be cooking and will cleaning up after himself. I cooked breakfast for my son and me and he stood there acting like he wanted some but I didn't even offer.

I guess he has a little money saved but not much. My husband took him out earlier and got about 12 applications. Said he wants to get 2 jobs so he can start saving money. I told my husband I wanted at least 200 a month to go towards the bills. My husband told him the only thing he needed to worry about was his food and personal stuff. Arghhhh...

The guy is going through the same kind of situation. His wife cheated on him. Moved them in with a so called friend. The friend turned out to be her lover. When the moved in she kicked him out and now they are separated and filing for divorce. He is very depressed. He was talking to me earlier and all the things his wife said to him were the exact foggy things my husband said to me. Pretty sad that my husband can feel for him but can turn around and do the same stuff to me.

I told his friend some of the things OW says to me. He said he knows how I feel. Also I let my husband know the stuff she says to me. He said well then don't IM her. Said he is to blame and for me to stop being in denial and blaming other people.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by SadMarylandLady:
<strong> It just hurts that he continues to do these things no matter how it makes me feel. No matter how hurt I am.

. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, untill you ACCEPT that he doesn't give a rats A$$ how you feel this will continually be a problem for you. Your WH is not the "wonderful" man you in your mind "think" he is. PLease stop romantacizing him to be the man you "want" him to be over the "man he is". Actions speak volumes here, no matter what he says. YOu will die a "thousand deaths" here with him untill you accept this. There is no way to sugar coat this for you. I am sorry. This indeed is a tragic situation for you. I wish I could help you here. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

At some point, you will need to define and enforce some personal boundaries re: how you will and will not be treated. I get the sense you aren't there yet. Maybe, it's time to find an IC and start exploring why you allow yourself to be treated so poorly.

Remember, you can't change anyone but yourself.

Also I made a list of MY rules and gave it to his friend. He didn't care to much for no women can stay over or come to our house. Oh well... Not gonna happen infront of my kids.

I think my husband is planning on taking him back to North Carolina to visit his parents on New years which is also my husbands Bday. Guess that will be another visit to OW.

Lemon,
I agree he does not care at all how I feel or anything about me right now. He is addicted. And his addiction controls him right now. I guess you are right I remember the man he was and can be.

Mgm,
I think it's low self esteem and also the fact that I guess I am afraid to be alone. Since he has come back this time. I have stood up to him. I told him what I would and would not accept but he just seems to say ok and do what he wants.

Just like I said if he was going to stay here no matter how much I didn't want him to. That he would respect me. Not go out and call her at 9 and would not be going to see her anymore. He said ok but does it anyway.

I know I cannot keep living like this. I deserve so much better.

Dear SML:

I wish you had listened to the MBs here who told you to change the locks. You need to start thinking proactively.

As in:
If I do this now, he will do that next. It is like chess. You can predict your opponents next move.

You and your H are relatively young. He seems to me like an immature teenager, who is throwing tantrums. He is not a reliable partner for you and your children.

I have written to you before about your step son. I admire you for your position towards him. He calls you his mom and he loves you. Please do not allow your H to destroy this innocent child's personality by his actions. As a pediatrician I must tell you that this boy has suffered terrible damage by the abandonment by his biological mother. Your H's behavior now hurts you terribly, SML and my heart goes out to you. Feel a big cyberhug from over here (((SML))). Your H's behavior also hurts this boy. You are the stable mother in his life. You hold it in your power to protect this child from unimaginable hurt.

You are strong, SML. I see you as a lioness protecting her cubs. You are proud and strong inside. Get the help of your family, of your H's family. Ask them to help you and the children. Tell your H's friend that he is not welcome in your house right now and ask him to leave.

Tell your stepson that you love him and please don't abandon him.

Start planning your actions. Ask your H to leave. He can go back to his sister. You need Plan B. Urgently.

If you have to prove the A in Maryland to be divorced: don't you have plenty of proof. OW's messages, telephone records, credit card receipts from H's trips to her part of the country. emails, recorded phone messages. Think, what else you may need and secure proof.

Contact your local domestic violence office and get a referral to a local counselling center that charges on a sliding scale. Get another referral from there to a lawyer who works with abused women and charges on a sliding scale. What your H is doing is verbal abuse.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Iceprincess:
<strong>I wish you had listened to the MBs here who told you to change the locks. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ice - she can't do that.

She has legal counsel and legal advice from novices, while sometimes accurate, won't help.

WAT

<small>[ December 08, 2004, 08:40 AM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My WH says that we can sit down and agree without lawyers. That whatever I want write it down and he will sign it. But I really don't want to give up that easy. He was talking about our R. I asked him why he wants a divorce so bad. His answer was that he doesn't want to be married, wants to be single again, to many rules and restrictions and that he feels he is going nowhere in our marriage. Guess I really don't know what to say. I know the main reason is the fact that he wants to be with this girl and the marriage is the only things stopping him. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OK, SML, good job calling the lawyer. I was afraid I was going to have to come over there and dial the phone! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Just kidding. You are a Steel Magnolia, you'll come through. I also LOVE the analogy from IcePrincess about being the Lioness protecting your cubs. I see that, as well.

OK, now a couple things about the above quote. First off, I think a good way to get WH and friend out of the house even sooner, is to tell your WH that HE (NOT you, HE) can't file for D until you have been separated for a year. So, he needs to find alternate living arrangements if he is truly looking for a D in a year from now. It will be interesting to see what happens when you tell him that, IMO.

Next, you say you "don't want to give up that easily." I understand what you mean when you say that. BUT, as I and others have told you so many times, releasing him does not NORMALLY speed up the D process. These WS get a taste of the "freedom" they think they crave, and all of a sudden there is nobody to blame for their actions/feelings except themselves! *gasp* Then they have to face . . . themselves! Ahhhhhh! How horrible . . . for them, but usually good for the BS and the M.

The reason you don't know what to say to his fog babbling about "no rules or restrictions" is very simple, and has nothing to do with YOUR brain one bit! He is not making sense! For months, I tried to "rationalize" or "challenge" my FWH's fog-talk back to him. No-can-do. They only see and hear what they understand - which is usually only what ever they say, or the OP says. And you know why he wants to talk to OW so much? Because he is "in love" with her? Um, I doubt it. Because of how it makes him FEEL. How does it make him feel? It makes him feel OK about his actions. You have done a very good job of telling your WH how his actions make you feel. In order to continue the A, with his VERY willing affair partner, the OW, he must scrub out that guilt and find someone to fog babble with about love and feelings justifying being morally bankrupt.

And finally, at the end of the above quote, you said how he thinks the M and you are the only things keeping him from "being with this girl." Well, IMO, all you have done up to this point is made it EASIER for him to be with this girl. You have taken care of all his responsibilities so he can do just that!

HE is the ONLY one on this planet, my dear, who believes you are truly holding him back from anything. You must know by now that he lied his [censored] off months ago when he said they just "laid" together, but no SF. Bull. She is giving away the milk, for free sister, that is why your WH is so hooked. You and your M represent his GUILT for his lack of moral and ethical values right now. You are just a figurehead. Your actions of trying to "hold onto the M" are in all actuality slowing down the natural death of his A. A strict Plan B is what is needed here, SML. That will kill the A.

I do think possibly by forcing your WH to take care of his oldest son MIGHT speed up the death of the A, I agree with IcePrincess 100%. When/if your WH ever comes close to being himself again, the man you know was in that body until the abduction, he will appreciate that you protected the entire family from more harm from him ~ to include the son that is not biologically yours. Let taking care of him be your symbol of unconditional love of your real H, your family, your devotion to what is "right" in this world. How must this boy feel, abandoned by his mother for "another man, LOVE (belch!)," then by his father for "another woman, LOVE (double-BELCH!)." If I understand the kid mind, and I do a bit, he thinks all these people are leaving because of HIM. He thinks it is a flaw inside of himself that "makes" those he loves leave.

Rise above the stink that is your WH and the OW. Rise far far above. Tell him that he should leave soon, so you can begin recording the 1-year requirement for separation. "That is the law, dear." Also tell him that your SS has had enough trama and abandonment in his life up to now. Tell your WH that until he finds a real apartment, or other stable living arrangements, that your SS is more than welcome to stay with you. That you will take care of him as one of your own, until your WH feels he is capable of making the commitment of steady and stable home life.

Doing these things will have a profound affect on your life. In so many different ways. I know it is hard to see from where you are. I have lived it! I know! But I listened to ARK, and Pep, and WAT, when they told me these things. And I was scared to DEATH. I was shaking and pacing in the lawyer's office. They probably thought I was a looney ~ and I kinda was. BUT, when I left there that day, I had NO regrets for going. Not one.

My H would spout off about getting a D, I would say, "Fine, do it. Do whatever you want. I will not stop you. But I'm not doing it for you."

And he didn't get any further, in 3 months of "trying," than printing out some Internet D documents. When he talks about not seeing lawyers, just say, "First you need to move out for a year, dear. We have a whole year to decide what to do, and how to do it."

I truly don't think your WH's A can survive Plan B. I think you enable him too much. With nobody to blame, nobody to take his "time" with the kids, THAT is when he will start realizing his reality.

I love you. Hang in there. Sorry I didn't get back to you last night. This is the hard time of year for us, as 1 year D-day anniversary is fast-approaching. Lots and lots of memories are coming up from last year. Hang in there, SML. This is definately a journey, not a destination. A very long marathon, not a sprint. You cannot lose any more love/energy in this phase of your WH's A. There is still too much work to be done down the road.

Spidey

<bump!>

Did my novel-length reply kill this thread???

Where are you, SML? What's going on???

Great reply SS. SML, I hope you read it carefully because that was very good advice. I have never written to you but I have followed your story and you are a wonderful woman. Take care of that sweet baby of yours.

<bump> again.

SML, how are you???

SS,
Thank you for your post. I had this huge reply for you but lost it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> You put into words what I wanted to say to my WH.

Today I woke up in a very bad mood. I was short with his friend and very emotional with my husband. I think it has to to with the hormones still. After I calmed down and read your post I decided to talk to my husband calmly. We sat down and I told him that I needed to talk. I let him know that I do not want a divorce but I could not stop him from filing. I pretty much told him the way you wrote it. I also let him know that in Maryland he cannot file unless we have been separated for a year. That I would continue to keep his son if he wanted me to until he found a stable place. I told him a year is a long time that he didn't know things could change and at that point I would sit down with him and discuss the legal stuff. Told him that I still loved and cared about him and if he decided he was willing to work things out with me I was open to dicuss it with him.

He seemed almost relieved. Made a remark about seeing how long what I said lasted. I asked him to please respect me while he is living under the same roof. That I am human and what he is doing by going out and continuing to call OW and pursuing her is hurting me deeply. I asked him to stop contact until the divorce is FINAL. Later I was in the kitchen and he came up and hugged me. Also gave me several pecks on the cheek. I feel like I need to go this route right now to get away from the stress. Earlier I felt overwelmed, alone and depressed. But your post made me feel much better.

Tonight he didn't go out to call OW because he is sick. I did hear him call her and tell her something probably that he wasn't feeling good. I made a comment and asked why he continued to do stuff not caring if he hurts me. He said he does care and he is stopping. I guess we will see.

One good thing is that his friend got a job today. Working 6am till 4pm... Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhh ... He will be outta my hair soon. Also my husband is looking for a weekend job here. To pay off bills plus if he does that he will not be seeing OW for a very long time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I am just gonna sit back and see how this plays out.