Cool beans, SML. Please keep posting. And also realize that while you got a "desired" affect from your WH, it means nothing. Don't get lulled into any feelings of . . . anything, really.

But it is a good example of how taking the pressure off the WS can ease the tension that builds between BS and WS during an A. If I were you, I would continue to encourage him to find his own place to live, to begin the 1-year separation. When he fog babbles at you, calls her in front of you, just reiterate that him and his disrepsectful behavior (and his friend! That has a job and can be his paying room mate in their own apartment!) need to be finding another place to live.

I think you did an excellent job tonight. Let's wait and see what the vets think.

Love you! Spidey

SML,

I hate to say it, but I really do think what you're seeing here is more of the same. Why do I say that? Well....

You said that he seemed relieved, and then said something about seeing how long what you had said lasted. Huh? Though he may not have said it directly, he's putting blame on you again. It's all your fault that things have been in turmoil, because you won't just quit complaining and realize that he has to do his own thing. That remark says to me that he didn't hear a thing you said about what is hurting you, or about separation, or anything else. All he heard was "I'm going to be good and shut up and let you do whatever you want without complaining," which he likes, but he doesn't expect you to remain quiet about it for long.

Try to see this from a different perspective. You keep wondering how he could continue to do things that hurt you so. But he doesn't see it that way at all. What hurts you and your children - even the fact that you MIGHT be hurt by any of this at all - totally escapes him. Because none of this is about you, it's about HIM. That's all he sees. As long as he's in the fog, that's all he will see. And nothing you can say is going to drag him out of that fog.

Having an affair is one of the most selfish actions in the world. It doesn't matter who he was before - right at this moment, your WH is one of the most supremely selfish beings on the face of the earth. I doubt he has any capacity whatsoever right now to consider that you even have feelings, let alone that he might be hurting them.

Look at what he did in just this last post you put up. You calmly talked to him, and things were better. But I truly think that's because he translated it all to mean that you were going to quit bugging him. If he really got out of the conversation what he should have, he would have HEARD the part about how him calling the OW from your house hurts you. He turned around and did it anyway. And then says he is stopping? When? He isn't stopping - he's just telling you whatever he thinks will get you to leave him alone while he goes along and does whatever he wanted anyway.

He's going to eat cake as long as he can. You say that he is stopping calling her, and you say we'll see. No - you already did see. If he was going to stop, he would have BEFORE he called her to tell her he was sick or whatever. He isn't stopping, he's just trying to pacify you to make it easier on himself.

I don't want to be hard on you - I know this has got to be one of the worst possible situations. I don't know how he could act like this while you were pregnant with his child, and now that the two of you have a new baby. But the fact is that he IS acting like this. And you don't like the way he is treating you, but I don't really see you standing up to him about it.

I spent a whole lot of years giving in to my now-X, making excuses for the way he acted, etc. Then came the day I came home to find a note saying he'd gone to live with OW. But I knew him well enough, and had read enough about these situations, to know that it wouldn't be the end. And I realized something at that point. I needed to make a hard decision before he started wanting to come home. I knew the day would come when he'd have a fight with OW or something and want to come back home, at least for a while. And that when that happened, if I let him just come back, and started convincing myself that this time it would be different, that he was telling the truth this time.... well, I realized that I would probably be spending the rest of my life (or at least several years) continuing to make excuses and sayin that it was "different this time." I've seen lots of women who put up with a whole lifetime of being treated this way, and it almost always seems to be the same - they just keep saying it'll be different, but it never is. I decided I was at that crossroad, where I needed to decide if I was going to be one of those women who put up with it time and time again, claiming each time that it was "different," or if I was going to stand up for myself and MAKE it different.

I wanted to take back control of my life. And the only way I could do that was to control how I reacted. I couldn't control him or what he would do, but I could control what I would accept in my life.

I really think that's all any of us here are trying to tell you... take control! Decide what is acceptable behavior, and then stand up for it. You can't control what he does, but you can decide that you aren't going to let his behavior keep you on this roller coaster.

You've gotten a lot of good advice on these boards. But all the good advice in the world won't help until you decide to stand up for yourself and make things different.

Penguin,

Thanks for your post. You gave me a lot to think about. I do want to stand up for myself. I told him enough is enough. I feel a lot more stronger and in control of me than I did 2 months ago when he moved out.

Before I read your post I already knew he told me he was stopping with her just to get me off his back. When we had our talk yesterday I did not say I would let him alone about OW. Actually I told him that I deserve to be respected and if he continues to disrespect me when he takes his friend back to North Carolina to visit his kids next month then BOTH of them can find a place to stay besides here.

I am down to the point where I am not going to take much more. I can say that he is acting very differently lately. But I still expect the worst but hope for the best. If he does leave and files for divorce then it's his loss and he will lose a great deal. I will always have the love and respect of my kids, family and friends.

SML, you are no where near the end of this ordeal, unfortunately, IMO.

Please don't think of it "ending" soon. First off, your WH can't even decide where he wants to live. His words say one thing, yet his body is in another. And I don't buy that money/bills crap. It is just more justification he is using to "cover" up the fact that he has no clue what he is doing!

Which leads me into my next thing of - why the HE!! are you letting him, acting like a teenager in every way, make these important decisions??? He is going to drag you all out emotionally, through Hades and mud and all kinds of gross stuff, WAAAAY before he pulls his head out of the dark smelly place it is currently lodged.

IMO, tell him he needs to NOT come home from NC next time. Him and his friend need to start looking for apartments. In fact, FIND him an apartment to move into! That's what I did for my H. Did it hurt? Heck yes! It tore my heart out! BUT, he kept telling me he didn't want to be with me anymore, so I let him not be with me anymore. He liked it for about 2 weeks. Then it got real old, real quick. Your WH will not know what he has until it is gone, SML. You are up against more than just this OW as a person ~ you are up against an addiction.

Please stop viewing these small shifts as the end-all of everything. They are not. In fact, IMVHO, when your WH finally moves out, that will be the BEGINNING of something. I think you should let go of your feelings, your fear, with regard to this stuff. What you are living through now is much worse than him leaving. You are a slave to your fear! How horrible. There is a reason that saying is so famous, "There is nothing to fear, but fear itself."

Get him out and start Plan B. Get him out, and start Plan B. Get him out and start Plan B.

My H says that when I really mean something, I end up saying it 3 times, for emphasis. So, I said it three times. It is very painful and frustrating for us to watch you go through this same thing over and over and over. It is insanity! Don't hope for the best right now. Why should you? Because of some words you spoke to him? Because you notice slightly different behavior? He wants something. Don't let your power of denial and hope blind you again.

Open your eyes. Live in what is, NOT what you want to be. Get him out and Plan B. Uh-oh, I will have to ask my H what it means when I say something FOUR times! I must REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY mean it!!!

Spidey

Spider,

We've been thru this with SML over and over. It is not until she lets go of her fear and takes action that something may change. I find her WH's behavior disgusting. Here is a woman with three children (one of them a brand newborn) and he is acting like a spoiled teenager. He wants SML to make the decision for him, but I don't think that she should. What she should do is follow your advice and go to a very dark Plan B and most importantly get her legal ducks in a row regarding child support, custody and alimony.

We can tell SML this over and over and over again, but until she actually WANTS to make a change, it will go on indefinitely.

It is very painful to hear this continuing on and on, especially since there are three beautiful children involved.

SML, please tell us what is holding you back from going to Plan B?

You are such a strong woman and your children are lucky to have you as a mother, especially your stepson. Don't fear of being alone. You have three beautiful children who love and need you. Go to Plan B and let your WH, his friend and OW worry about their own lives for a change. You do not need this; you are much better than that. This will go on indefinitely unless you put a stop to it. You have nothing to fear, but only to gain.

I have written to you before that your WH's relationship with OW is more than likely not going to work out. She is a child/OW and acts/is very very immature. She is not equipped to deal with a man who already has three children. This A is going to end. But it's going to end sooner, if you go dark and let your husband's needs be taken care of by OW only. She is not capable of doing this and it will all come crashing down.

Only YOU, SML, can bring this all to an end.

Good luck to you!

Kati

We've been thru this with SML over and over.

Oh girlie, I know this better than anyone. BUT, I will not give up on her. I will tell her over and over and over, until it sinks in. Just because she doesn't move as fast as we think she should, doesn't mean she is a hopeless case.

I have seen the strength in her. I know it is there. She will come here one day when she feels ready, and she will read our continuing words of support and faith in her, and she will be able to do the hard work ahead of her.

Going silent and dark on her does her no good.

Spidey

Spider,

Oh no, I never meant to imply that. I apologize if my post came across like that. Just like you, I do believe that she will eventually see this. I can sort of see myself in a little bit of her. Sometimes we choose to live with the pain because we fear the unknown. I can very much identify myself with that.

Thanks for the clarification.

Kati

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Spider Slayer:
<strong> We've been thru this with SML over and over.

Oh girlie, I know this better than anyone. BUT, I will not give up on her. I will tell her over and over and over, until it sinks in. Just because she doesn't move as fast as we think she should, doesn't mean she is a hopeless case.

I have seen the strength in her. I know it is there. She will come here one day when she feels ready, and she will read our continuing words of support and faith in her, and she will be able to do the hard work ahead of her.

Going silent and dark on her does her no good.

Spidey </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Kati, I know I see myself in SML, too.

That is why I identify with her so well!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I am truly sorry for taking up your time. You guys give me such good advice but I guess I am to hardheaded to listen.

Here is the thing that holds me back from just kicking him out. Number one it's his house he pays ALL the bills. We live paycheck to paycheck and do not have money to pay for a apartment for my WH. He is currently looking for a second job. I think he is doing this to use the money to move out. If he does lose his job and there is no money coming in then my credit will be ruined because most everything is in my name plus if we don't pay the mortgage we don't have a home.

Last night there was a big blowout. I posted something on my away message on instant messanger last night. Well OW read it and got upset. Called my husband and fought with him. He came home mad at me. I heard him in the bathroom trying to talk to her but she hung up on him. So now he is mad at me and is more determined to leave. I just reminded him like I told him the other day. He can separate for the year and file but I will not do it for him. Also reminded him that it hurt me when he does not respect me.

I just think it's so funny that the OW gets upset when she thinks my husband is sleeping with me but it's ok for her to be with my husband. They don't think I should be upset. That I should be happy for them. And if I do say anything then I am spiteful.

When he leaves it will be plan B for sure. I told him earlier tonight that he had a month to find somewhere to go. Course he played the guilt trip on me. Saying well I guess I will have to sit his friend down and tell him tonight that he had to take him back. Actually his friend isn't to bad it's my husband who is hurting me and being the jerk. I will not allow him to continue calling OW in my own home.

I am tired of this whole thing. I do need to stand up for myself. I guess I am just trying to figure out a plan. I love my husband but I can feel my love starting to turn to something else. After all these months he finally did admit to the reason he feels the way he does is because of her. For the past year all I heard is it's not about her. She has nothing to do with how I feel.

SS,
I agree with he doesn't really know what he wants. He says one thing but does another. He can say he isn't confused but I think he is. Also I want to thank you for not giving up on me. You have been so much help these last few months. Even though I haven't acted on all your good advice. I do feel much stronger than a few months ago.

I don't really know if I will be posting much anymore. Thank you guys for all your support and advice. It feels good that there are people out there that really care.

Tina

SML - I've been catching up on what's been happening with you and my heart just breaks. It is so hard to understand how he can be like this right now, during what should be such a wonderful time with your family.

I understand the money thing has got to be scary. No one wants to lose their home. However, MD law is quite nice in these situations so you have plenty of time to figure out what you want to do. I would suggest start planning that you can't count on WH and you need to provide for the family by yourself. Hopefully it won't come to that but if it does you will be prepared. Are you going to go back to work next year? Are there any opportunities that you could explore that would enable you to work out of the house? How about opening a day care? Quality child care is always hard to find. I have a sister in law in Urbana who does this and makes really good money and gets to stay home with her kids.

Anyway, take care of yourself and the baby.

Hey there, Tina, that is a REALLY good idea. My FBF, the OW, runs a daycare out of her home. She supports herself and her two kids doing that.

Keep posting, hon. Retreating into yourself at this time will do you and your kids no good, IMO.

I don't mind spending my time with you. If I did, I wouldn't do it! I have free choice, free will. So, you don't worry about the fact that we say this and you say that. You are the only one who can make these decisions for yourself. I want to know what is going on in your life.

Please don't play games with the OW and WH. Everything he needs to know about OW, he will discover one day on his own. You might get a desired result at first, but then you might get the opposite. Too risky.

Plus, as you witnessed last week, when emotions run sooo incredibly high as they do in indifidelity, you don't want to risk something elevating to the point that police need to be called, and other bad stuff happening that could be hard to get over in the future.

You truly can't physically force him to move out. I think you are doing great by reminding him that it's up to him to leave, to begin the 1-year separation required by law to get the D that he wants. Keep reminding him that the ball is in HIS court, his actions are hurting you. IF he does agree, and wants to move out, you will need to stay strong and let him.

Are you prepared to do that? Have you thought that far ahead? Have you role-played what that will feel like/look like? It was hard for me, because I wanted my H to say, but he wanted to go soooo bad. He was sooo excited to get his apartment, and I was devestated.

After a couple months, the roles were reversed. H wanted to come home but didn't know how, and I was doing JUST FINE without all his crap in my face all the time (like his attitude, his phone calls, his emails, his "confusion"). I really think if you can just let him go, you will realize how much energy you are putting into him that needs to go into you and the kids.

KEEP POSTING!

Spidey

SS,
I have thought about the future if he leaves. I know that it will be very hard for me emotionally. But I also feel that it may be the only way for him to see if what he is chasing is real or fantasy. Also it will allow me to remove myself from the daily hurt and also I think I will be able to focus on what really matters most.

I think the home daycare is a good idea. I will do some research on it. I also was thinking about asking my SIL if I could do most of my work at home. And only go into the office twice a week to catch up on everything. She wants me to work full-time now but I don't think I can do that.

It's hard at night. He sleeps on the couch. When I go to bed I just long to be held so much. But he reminds me he doesn't want to give me false hope and doesn't want to sleep next to me. Guess his loyalty is with OW. Wish he would have shown me that same loyalty we wouldn't be where we are today. Also he is the only one that can hug me or kiss me on the cheek. If I try to he turns his head or tells me to stop. So I pretty much told him I wouldn't bother him anymore.

One good thing is since his friend came he has not been able to call OW very much. He use to talk to her 3 hours a night every night. Now he may talk 30 minutes at the most. Some nights not at all. I don't think things are going so well with him and OW. I think she is jealous that I just had his baby, he is living back at home and he doesn't give her the attention like he once did. He told me the other night that she was thinking about backing off. Sometimes I think that is the only way it will end. In my opinion I think he doesn't want to hurt her and if she ends it fine. But if she doesn't I don't think he ever will.

I do remind him if he brings up about leaving that he has to live out of the household for at least a year. And that I will talk to him about the details of divorce after the year is up. His friend keeps telling me if you love someone and they are happier with someone else you just let them be happy and let them go. I told him in his situation it was easy to do that. Because he didn't have kids to think about. He said that was true.

Yesterday after going to the gym with my husband his friend came to me. He said Tina "never give up hope on ANYTHING." When he said that he looked right at my husband. I am not going to put to much into it. But I know my husband talks to him about everything. So maybe something was said that made his friend want to tell me that. I don't know. All I know is I will keep moving forward and do what I NEED to do.

I wasn't going to put a tree up this year. I just don't feel festive. But the more I thought about it the more I realized I cannot ruin my kids Christmas just because I am depressed. So today we will put up the tree. I will wrap some presents. Maybe even go shopping. Last year on Christmas Day is when I found out about OW from my husband. So it's a bad time for me.

Today I just want to focus on ME. My focus this whole year has been on OW. I have wasted a year of my life. I know she really isn't the problem. My husband is. Even if he leaves for her. He will have the same issues in that relationship. Because he is just covering up his issues and problems with this false sense of happiness.

SML,

I don't post often but I have been reading your situation and my heart really does go out to you.

I went through a divorce myself it was 7 yrs ago December 4th that my ex walked out the door. So I do understand

I just want to encourage you to take care of yourself. Don't forget about YOU. Do things that make you happy, make sure you are eating right, exercise if possible. Remember what the holiday's were like when you were small? Try to make this Christmas all about the children and the blessing they are.

Do you have friends that you can talk to? Go out with?

I made the terrible mistake for many years of forgetting me. It really hurt my self esteem and confidence. I was getting lost in my families issues and now that I've realized it I'm making sure I don't do that anymore. It really does take it's toll. Life is too short and despite what is going on sweetie look for the blessings in your life. Smile, laugh with your children, dance around the house with them. Can you arrange furniture differently? Put on soft music, light some candles that will make the home feel cozy and warm. Change things around to make it feel new.

Do things that mean something to you, even if it is small. They all add up and help your spirit.

Keep your head up, if you don't take care of yourself who will? Same with respecting yourself, loving yourself, etc.

SML - Please don't be so afraid of WH moving out. He did it before and we saw how much stronger you got. What SS says is true. When my WH moved out I thought I would die, but I didn't. I survived and started to build my own life. I pulled back from him and I know he noticed. Deep down your WH is VERY conflicted, if you are able to pull back and let him work it out all by himself, you will get through this time.

When I see my SIL next I'll ask her what resources she would suggest for starting a home day care center in the State of Maryland. She lives right by you and I know the demand is extremely high, she has no problem filling up all her slots. I'm sure Frederick County is a little different then Montgomery County as far as the licensing and everything but it can't be that different. I would suggest starting with Frederick County's website and see if you can find out anything there. I'll let you know what I find out.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I wasn't going to put a tree up this year. I just don't feel festive. But the more I thought about it the more I realized I cannot ruin my kids Christmas just because I am depressed. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">See, that's the Steel Magnolia that I see in you! Good job. That is awesome. That was a HUGE turning point for me, when I started making dinner again, and weekend breakfasts, and cleaning and doing laundry before we were actually out of stuff to wear!

And the more I did those "normal" things, the better it felt and easier it got. You are in such a hard time of year, SML, and you just had a baby! Give yourself a break, OK? I have never walked in your exact shoes. I am not judging you. I know sometimes it might seem like I am YELLing at you, but I am not judging you.

One thing I have to accept about myself personally, is that: "I do the best I can in the circumstance I am in at the time." Because I can look back with my 20/20 vision until the cows come home and "judge" my own actions at certain times of my life. And I can easily turn that into a personal LB session ~ about myself!

Please have confidence that you are doing the best you can right now, where you are at in your life. And keep posting!

Love you, girl.

Spidey

{{{{SML}}}}}

I also see some of myself in you. It sounds like things are not going so well in lala land where your H and OW are residing.My WH was doing the same things your H is doing. OW would get angry that H was still talking to me or doing something with his family and throw a tantrum, he would be on the phone trying to appease her, she would threaten to stop seeing him if he didnt leave me alone, and he would call me evil and spiteful because i told her the truth about what was going on with myself and him. i finally did a decent plan a, and it seems to have worked. when he still didnt end things i pretty much left him alone and let him live the life he thought he wanted so much. The A has finally ended, he thought OW was sooo great because in the beginning she accepted everything he did and said nothing. Then i guess she thought she grew some cojones and started making all kinds of demands like he had BETTER show her some divorce papersand he was going to start spending more time with her and not with his family. My wh finally had enough and told her to get lost. Didnt mean to threadjack here and bore anyone with my problems but my point is i see myself in your situation. H acting like a schoolboy, kissing OW's behind, her making demands...etc. I finally had to bring myself to let him go, and when i did that was the only way he could see the error of his ways.Once you truly let him go to OW and he has to kiss butt EVERY day while you are happily going on about your
business he will start to think about what he is doing.

Hey SML! What is going on? Is your WH reading here? Is that why you are not posting anymore?

I wouldn't mind having a dialogue with your WH. You have my IM if he wants to talk. OR, he can chat with my FWH if he wants. My H is not an MBer, perhaps he would feel more safe talking to him than posting here?

Spidey

SML,

I havent posted to you, but i have read bits and pieces.

I really dont know what to say. Im really torn on this one, as a FWS and a dad.

I will think about it a bit and maybe post later. That is if you want to hear from a FWS. I know we are not always the most welcome people on here.

John,
I would love to hear what you have to say. It's good getting perspective from all sides.


I have been trying to pull back and give my WH some space. Plus it helps me to get out of some of the chaos. We actually have been getting along lately.

I have noticed some positive changes. But I am not getting my hopes up. Because even though contact with OW has drastically been reduced... There is still contact. I think he feels he can gradually end contact. But thoughts of doing the right thing will not happen if the actions don't follow.

He hasn't mentioned divorce since I told him he could file and I would not stop him. But he had to move out and separate for a year first. Before when he would mention divorce I would get so upset and sad. Argue that I didn't want one. Now he can't use divorce against me to get a reaction from me.

The baby is doing wonderful. She is such a good baby. She only gets up once at night. At 2am. All day long she eats and sleeps. She is growing so fast. Things that were huge on her 2 weeks ago now fit perfect. Her cheeks are already chubby and she gets more adorable each day.

I feel great. With my first child's birth it took me a month to walk right and heal. I lost so much blood and was very week for several months. With Chloe I was in mild pain about 3 days or so. I feel wonderful I can walk . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I am ready to workout. But I have to wait till my checkup to really start a good workout. I have lost all the weight I gained while pregnant. Course it was only 8 pounds. I am actually about 20 pounds smaller than I was before I got pregnant. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> It's nice to hear all the good comments about how great I look from my friends and family. Makes me want to try even more harder to get tone and sexy. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Just need ideas how to get rid of the little jelly pouch from having the baby. I was thinking maybe situps on help.

The other night I took a shower, did my hair and makeup. My husband walked in the door. I just smiled and walked upstairs. He came up.. Asked where I was going. I said no where. He then hugged me and told me I looked good. That made my night.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by SadMarylandLady:
<strong>

Good job, SML! This will get him thinking.

He hasn't mentioned divorce since I told him he could file and I would not stop him. But he had to move out and separate for a year first. Before when he would mention divorce I would get so upset and sad. Argue that I didn't want one. Now he can't use divorce against me to get a reaction from me.

I bet she's is just so precious!

The baby is doing wonderful. She is such a good baby. She only gets up once at night. At 2am. All day long she eats and sleeps. She is growing so fast. Things that were huge on her 2 weeks ago now fit perfect. Her cheeks are already chubby and she gets more adorable each day.

SML, one thing that works wonders for my abs was doing sit-up's and ab exercises on one of those big exercise balls. You can get one of those for just a few bucks at TJ Maxx or Target or at a sports store. Most of the time, they come with instructions on how to use them effectively. I really like mine and I've got some nice abs now. Plus, it makes it easier on your back and you can also effectively target the sides. In addition, this ball also helps with the toning of your inner and outer thighs. You lie down on the floor, put the ball in between your legs and sqeeze. Just some ideas for you.

Just need ideas how to get rid of the little jelly pouch from having the baby. I was thinking maybe situps on help.

Great! Be mysterious! Make him wonder about you.

The other night I took a shower, did my hair and makeup. My husband walked in the door. I just smiled and walked upstairs. He came up.. Asked where I was going. I said no where. He then hugged me and told me I looked good. That made my night. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Have a good day! Kati