</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Confused5:
<strong> ...She has also put in the letter, that she does not want to reconcile, and like I said that I am controlling and she felt closed in. My W has always had these problems, she cannot hold down a long term friendship, and she is always the one to shut it down should anything happen that she doesnt like. Its a proven trend. What I did to cause this? I have no idea.

I have no doubt, that she is focusing all her efforts on this OM. While she is doing that, there is nothing much I can do. Do I still keep getting in there every now and then, or should I stick with my NC? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">C,
You best be working this out with your MC or Jennifer @ MB. Her pattern lends itself to a very selfish A which she will find is a bigger monster than herself. It could also cause the crash when it comes to be huge.

The piece in your control is where will you be and how will you be when that crash comes.

I have 2 SILs and 1 sister who create drama and run away from it. In most cases they consider themselves the victims not the perpertrators. They have willingly hurt the lives of many, including their parents, spouses, relatives, friends and even their children. Physical violence, head games and verbal abuse are just some of their tools. Being sneaky and manipulative even to the point of filing false charges and estranging friends and family are what their actions show they crave. Some of it c/b chemical (bi-polar) related but there is a craving for the power it gives them making them enslaved to this type of lifestyle.

To my knowledge none of these ladies are successful in life. Instead they go from one friend to another, creating stories and getting people to believe them until the truth of their actions comes out.

I am saddended that there isn't much we can do. Those particular girls (now grown women in their mid 20s - late 30s) have hit, clawed, punched, me and my family. Caused emotional hurt which lead to 2 major heart attacks to my mother and FIL. Put their own children, H and other relatives into cousneling with the wrong direction. Caused them to move from job to job. No stability in their lives but it is always other people who are to blame. Spend more on plastic surgery in 1 year than most spend in a lifetime.

Are they happy? No. Quite miserable. Is happiness within their grasp? Yes. Many have put their lives on the line for these drama queens but they ignore the help and love.

At a certain point all others have to decide whether they are going to continue to enable this type of behavior or let life take it's own destructive course without additional support from friends and family. Kinda like a plan B.

That is where I am at with these drama queens. I will support and help them when I see their postive and permanent changes. I no longer allow myself nor my family to be pulled into their schemes.

That is what I learned to do here. So far, it is working for me.

Sorry for the long rant. Guess you can tell I don't like drama queens, eh? See a lot of it played out here on MB. Sad but true. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

After all is said and done, IMHO I think you should stick to your NC. If it helps you feel safer. Your BS shield isn't strong enough yet. What do you think?

L.

<small>[ December 09, 2004, 02:15 PM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>

Thanks for the heads up <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Yeah, it is sad to see her acting this way, she was never this person some year ago, and ever since she reconciled with her family, she has gotten a lot worse. I am everyone around us has noticed it, but unfortunately my W has not. I bought it up with her once, that she has changed, and she replied with 'you can't blame my family for that'.

I spoke to her last night, as I rang to say gnite to my son. She insisted again, about coming over on the weekend to collect her things. I told her to put it in writing and send it to me. She replied with 'but I have already told you want I want', then I said 'well then, just put it in writing and I will check it out. I will collect your things and let you know when you can come and get it', she then said 'you are not packing my things'. She then became to get a little upset and you could hear that she was about to cry, she then said 'I am trying to make this as amicable as possible, why are you being like this?', to which I replied 'Separation is never easy, I am not going to make it easy for you to do this'. She then went into something and hung up.

How did I act?

Acted like you want t/b in plan B without the letter. Probably confused the WS side of her split personality. It leaves them with a twisted face.

My WS didn't want me 'touching' his things either. But he didn't mind me paying his bills and washing his clothes. Go figure. It is just a A temper tantrum.

If you don't want her in the home, you can ask her for the list. Pack up as best as you can or get someone to help you, then either leave it on the porch/garage or deliver it to her. She will balk at whatever it your idea and not hers. Heck, she will balk even if it is her idea just because you agreed even if it if it is her idea!?!?!?? Crazy but true. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Next time I wouldn't confess to say you are going to try and make it hard for her. That gets totally misconstrued in the fog. She may take that to mean and she will tell others that you are giving her a hard time. You know that you are not but she can't tell between help and abuse if it bit her in the face. re: Some WS have A's with prisoner's, convicts, low-life lazy homeless guys/gals while making life difficult for their hard working mate and family. Why? No logic. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

L.

Yep, I know I shouldnt say it, but she keeps saying that she is being fair about this etc etc Which is just total cr*p. I will try not to imply that again.

How long her behaviour will last? Not sure. This contact with the OM is now approaching 2 months, 1 of which we have been separated for now. She still has not admitted it to anyone (as far as I know), and she still shows no sign of anything changing. In regards to her phone, I will block it early next week (after she pays the bill for it), and then go from there.

There are a couple of things she desperately wants as of now:
1) Her mobile phone (for contact with OM and OP)
2) Her things from our house
3) Money (she still persists on telling me she has none)
4) Her freedom to do whatever she wants

I am picking my son up again this afternoon for a few hours, so it will be interesting to see what comes of that. She is waiting for her child support money, so she will be reasonably nice until she gets that, and then will change again...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> Confused5: There are a couple of things she desperately wants as of now:
1) Her mobile phone (for contact with OM and OP)
2) Her things from our house
3) Money (she still persists on telling me she has none)
4) Her freedom to do whatever she wants </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid: Well you can control items 1, 2, 3 but not 4. You can certainly put a crimp in it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> Confused5: I am picking my son up again this afternoon for a few hours, so it will be interesting to see what comes of that. She is waiting for her child support money, so she will be reasonably nice until she gets that, and then will change again... </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid: As for child support, can you make the payments in form of actual support only for the child? Like gift certificate from a grocery store. They issue cards with credit on it. That will force her to limit her spending in certain places.

Keep your obligations to the child visitation as best as possible. Your actions are being closely monitored and you will also need to document what you do with that.

L.

Sorry one other question ... she has now started a lot of contact with another number that I am not aware of. To a UK mobile it looks like. Whether she realises it is international I am not sure, but this contact has now seemed to take over from the other contact with OM.

How do I deal with that? Should I place a ban on international calls from her mobile? And if I do, then she will now I have access to her live phone records ...

** Sorry, I should also mention that while phone contact is slowing with the OM, that is not to mean she is not still seeing him. Indeed she may be at his residence while doing this contact.

<small>[ December 09, 2004, 06:12 PM: Message edited by: Confused5 ]</small>

C,

It is up to you. You can't have it both ways once you start taking action. If you chose to cut off the phone and lose the ability to track her calls, then what? You already know what she is like when those calls are made so you have another tool to monitor her by. You can be creative on how you do this. Yes, you may not have the same access but you know in your gut what looks good vs what does not.

It is up to you. I can share that there are some BSH MBers from the UK on board. If you need help from there neck of the woods, you can ask for their help. I think BobPure is from that area.

L.

Thanks L. Man, its like every 5 minutes I come up with another question to ask .. its frustrating for me, as you want all the answers, but it is probably equally frustrating for you, so thanks for taking the time to post <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I guess my situation is not that uncommon, but like I hav said before, most of it is a mystery to me. She is still in the withdrawal and fog stage, we could go days without talking to each other, and she would not mind that, but then that means I cannot talk to my son either. It makes it difficult when there is a young boy involved, and it breaks my heart to know that she is placing him in the middle of all this, and using him as a pawn to get what she wants. Virtually everything that she ever asks for is money or her things (mostly money though).

We understand the questions and that's why this site is sooo great.

Notice how she is asking for herself and not thinking much of your son's needs. Others will begin to notice that also. Like when she keeps asking others to babysit so she can be with the OM.

Be patient. Concentrate on you and your son's priorities.

L.

She is just thinking of herself .. agreed. She pretends like she has our sons interests in mind (I have no money to buy him anything), but yet she has (and always will) go through money like there is no tomorrow (on herself I might add).

As much as I would love NC with her, it is really hard because of our son. She will never call me on her own willing so our son can talk to me, I always need to call there.

Is there another way, apart from NC that I can get through to her. Granted that she believes she has made up her mind, and told everyone about it. Most of it is in her head though, but she plays it as a bigger deal than what it really is! I have had no relationship talk with her for a few days now, and indeed she turns anything I have to say about our relationship onto me (as proven by giving her lawyers the 2 letters I had written her).

As much as it pains me sometimes not to talk to her, I know I have to do it for my (and our relationship) benefit.

Ws in heat learns best by putting out your cause for fire. Douse yourself in water and stay away from the heat. You will become like teflon and nothing the WS does will stick. It will drive them nuts but hey, they already are there and this time, they only have themselves to react to their antics.

What does that mean???? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> It means you stay out of her WS way. Set the ground rules for contact (ie: child visitation, child support). Stop paying her bills. Stop letting her have free access to your home (I even told my WS he had to knock before he entered my home). Expect her to have fits of anger. Ignore them but keep track of them and report them to your IC/MC & police as needed. Let her deal with her issues.

Unless you stop meeting her needs you are not giving her a reason to stop any part of the A. Later she could even blame you for her continuing the A. Yep, you heard me.....some WS do that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Therefore, identify your boundaries and implement them. Read Love must be tough by Dr James Dobson. Check out the library copy if need be.

L.

An update:

Went to collect son from W, and all she could continually ask is when she can come and collect her things. Basically saying it isnt fair, you cant stop me from getting them etc etc she became emotional and starting crying. I kept firm (which was damn hard), and told her to write me a letter of what she wants. Once I get it I will collect her things and let her know when to come and get them. She said that she wants to pack her things, I have no right to. I did not respond and starting babbling to her (thanks for the advice L!). I handed her an emotional needs questionnaire and asked her to fill it out, I will do the same. She took it and said no problem.

She also said, I hope you have not thrown out any of our wedding things. I asked her why would she ask, and she didnt really answer me.

I drove away feeling bad for what I did. But this seems to be her pattern. Be very nice to me until she gets what she wants, and then she returns to being a b*tch again.

What do you think of that situation? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

** Forgot one thing - I also asked her if she was seeing anyone else yet. She said no, and that she promises on everyones life that she is not. Somehow I didnt quite believe her!

<small>[ December 10, 2004, 04:28 AM: Message edited by: Confused5 ]</small>

Well it doesn't say much when a WS promises on everyone else's life. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

As for her needing to pack her things, she should have thought about that before her actions made her unwelcomed in your home!

Tough love is hard but necessary when interacting with WS'. The pay off initially is some relief from all the stress the WS puts on the BS. More will come later.

Know that she will cry so make sure you can differentiate between crocodile tears and the real ones. The Ws is often sooo foggy, they can't tell. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> But what you can use as a gauge is their topic of convo (more about themselves.....still too selfish), their tone and attitude. Dead give away every time. No matter how good liars they are. They just can't hide their selfish tendancies.

take care,
L.

Yes, I was using that as a guage. No matter where I took the conversation, it always came back to her, and how little money she had, and how much she needs to come and get her things.

Her phone records are really shifting now. What starting out as messaging one OM, has moved to messaging another OM (whom I do not know, and was a recent development just after separation), to now mass contact with another person (UK). Whether this OP is a male or female, no idea. But that is starting to dominate her phone now.

She also said last night, that this isnt the life she had planned for our son, or us, but we have to deal with it. I also bought up the things about our wedding, and she was very adamant that I cannot throw any of it out. I even asked if she wanted to return her wedding ring, she said no very confidently, and then I told her she doesnt even wear it anymore (she replied with it doesnt fit on her other hand). I asked why would she want to keep it, what does it mean to her? And she wouldnt respond. She did say that I have taken off my ring to, why? I didnt respond (it was more because she had)

I asked her if she has seriously sat down and thought about what she is doing. She said that she does think about it sometimes, and she cant just throw the memories away of the last 5 years. She then went on to say that she is a little confused sometimes as well.

She is still very set on not spending anytime with me. I ask if we can do family activities, and that she is more than welcome to come, and that I expect visa-versa from her. I also mentioned xmas and why she cannot stay at our home xmas eve and xmas morning - not for us, but for our son. She said 'honestly ... i do not want to spend xmas with you'. I replied with it isnt about us, but about our son.

Most of our conversation was pretty set on her, sometimes there was confusion in her voice and by what she said. She is still focusing on her though, and her main points were always when she can come and get her things.

I dont know ... it just gets really hard sometimes to try and get through. I did say some nasty things to her last night, like I dont trust her anymore, and that the marriage meant nothing to her etc etc

<small>[ December 10, 2004, 10:44 PM: Message edited by: Confused5 ]</small>

^ bump

how old is your son? also if she will not spend x-mas eve and day with you then which day are you going to get him. Even Cake eaters have to share their children!

all right confused5 get ready cause here comes the 2x4's..........


you must STOP all the chaos that you engage in with her...
you must STOP all the verbal powerstruggling that you engage in with her
you must STOP all the chasing and repeatitive demanding of the truth from her...
you must STOP all focus on her and what she is doing and what she is NOT doing and focus soley on your son....
and meeting her needs...

STOP all participation that you and she have established in this round and round onslaught of same old same old...

definition of insanity is doing same thing over and over and expecting a different response...

Lets get down to actions that YOU can take and be in control of....

I even asked if she wanted to return her wedding ring, she said no very confidently, and then I told her she doesnt even wear it anymore (she replied with it doesnt fit on her other hand). I asked why would she want to keep it, what does it mean to her? And she wouldnt respond. She did say that I have taken off my ring to, why? I didnt respond (it was more because she had)

IF you BELIEVE in marriage and committment and vows inspite of what she or anyone else says or does...then put your gosh darn ring back on your finger...

you don't take of your wedding ring...becasue she took off her wedding ring...the action of you doing that is nothing more than tit-for-tat...

you don't wear your ring..
so there..
I won't wear my ring... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

your RING is the exact symbol and reflection of what you say you believe in...for the best for you and her and your son....

ring goes back on today....

and don't ask her about her rings....
but feel free to say..
I noticed you aren't wearing your wedding ring...and that makes me sad....and sorry that you feel you can not wear it right now....

speak the truth softly without judgement..
speak your pain....

your post if full is her claiming you to be controlling..
is there any validity to these statments...
exactly what does she claim you control..

list them
write them down..
without judging her ....
just examine them...without defending yourself..

HEAR what she is saying be it truth or not..
and really examine that avenue and SEE if there is any validity...and VALIDATE what you can...
not by words but by actions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

that's the exact type of thing you take responsiblity and change what you can...and if you aren't/weren't controlling hear her out and see if you can't change her perception of those things not by words but by actions....

Until you say what she feels you controlled her with...we can't help you in your plan....

NO RELATIONSHIP TALK>..none nadda zip zero ..not a peep a squeak or a murmer...

forgot the evidence chase the FACT that your wife slept on another mans couch is not OK nor appropriate behavior for a married woman..
period...and is ALL the proof you need to know your marriage is in serious trouble
quit asking the same questions....

what is the bigger picture here with son and daycare...

how are you going to handle this battle...if you have a woman who firmly believes that she would like to be a stay at home mom....and YOU believe that your son is better in daycare...what does that say about you and your belief in her as a mom...

you are setting yourself up for failure...
if you powerstruggle daycare claiming he is better off there than with mom...how does this play in to recovery...when you two get back together and now along with all the other garbage under the rug...is the issue that you think a daycare can raise your son better than her...

big picture
wide angle lense

support her wish to be a stay at home mom...with clear boundaries that he needs to be in a safe secure environment....
NOT exposed to OM/OP

she claims you are controlling...and you play right in to her hands over controlling her getting stuff from the home....

She replied with 'but I have already told you want I want', then I said 'well then, just put it in writing and I will check it out. I will collect your things and let you know when you can come and get it', she then said 'you are not packing my things'.

what exactly does she want...
she says she has told you..
you answer back with write it down and mail it to you....

what does she want..
and what out of on the list can you give her to make her somewhat 'happy' and appeased...

this also is a powerstuggle in futility...

what items does she want..
what items on the list can you give her.

why are you continueing to square off
say you have changed.
and yet show her no changes in action
and then blame her for not seeing your changes...

none of what you are doing plan A...

I am bumping up several posts for you on plan a
on getting the truth from a liar...maybe even the lighthouse post....
etc...

you better read up on plan a...
\save your money on the private eye and call MB counseling services...

confused this may sound harsh..but man this is your chance to get this thing outta the ditch...
ARK

Ark - Wow, thanks!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
you must STOP all the chaos that you engage in with her...
you must STOP all the verbal powerstruggling that you engage in with her
you must STOP all the chasing and repeatitive demanding of the truth from her...
you must STOP all focus on her and what she is doing and what she is NOT doing and focus soley on your son....
and meeting her needs...
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I will stop, starting today I will stop any conflict with her, demanding the truth of her everything! However, in regards to my son, she keeps him from me, does not reply to my phone calls or TXT. She is being vindictive towards me, and using my son in her game. For instance, tonight in our city is the Xmas Pageant. I have ask her if I could go as well, and she said that she will let me know - she never lets me know. I did not call again, but I did text her and say 'hope you and our son have fun tonight. wish i could be there'.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
IF you BELIEVE in marriage and committment and vows inspite of what she or anyone else says or does...then put your gosh darn ring back on your finger...
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, the reason I took my ring off is because she took hers off, I admit it. It was very painful to me, to see that she had taken off the ring 2 days after the separation date. I took mine off because of her, and also the pain of wearing it. It has been sitting on the same spot at home for 3 weeks now. She has her engagement ring on her other hand, and her wedding ring is stored somewhere in her parents house.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
your post if full is her claiming you to be controlling..
is there any validity to these statments...
exactly what does she claim you control..
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">See, that is what I cannot get out of her. I dont know exactly what I control. I work full-time, my W works part-time. I earn 80% of our total income which goes into my account. We also have a joint account, in which her pay goes, and recently my pay has been going into. She says I control everything, and that is partly because most things we have are in my name - car, household items, bills etc. She says I keep track of her by investigating her mobile phones (which in some way I do, but only recently), accusing her of having affairs (which I have only done once - and that was with another woman in which i was joking) and ringing friends and family about her (i have only ever called her family once as to her whereabouts, and that was at 2:30am on the night she was with another man .. not knowing at the time, I was genuinely concerned for her).

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
NO RELATIONSHIP TALK>..none nadda zip zero ..not a peep a squeak or a murmer...
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OK.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
forgot the evidence chase the FACT that your wife slept on another mans couch is not OK nor appropriate behavior for a married woman..
period...and is ALL the proof you need to know your marriage is in serious trouble
quit asking the same questions....
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
support her wish to be a stay at home mom...with clear boundaries that he needs to be in a safe secure environment....
NOT exposed to OM/OP
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">See, I do believe she is a good mom most times. However, on the days that she doesnt work she does nothing with our son. She would go to the gym for half the day and stick him in a creche. At nights she would never play with him, and showed him very little attention. When she did work, our son was in daycare ... now, he loves daycare a lot, he has a lot of good friends there and has improved substantially since going (he is currently 3yo, and has been in daycare for 21 months now). She is turning this on me, and saying she never wanted him to go to day care (which is baloney) and that he gets nothing out of it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
what does she want..
and what out of on the list can you give her to make her somewhat 'happy' and appeased...
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She has told me what she wants, and yes I want to string it out as long as possible, because I believe that once she has everything she needs, that will be it. I guess I see it as a controlling issue, that while I have her things here, I can dictate to her - which is NOT the right thing to do! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I am just scared about her coming and moving all her things. In my eyes that will be the end of our relationship <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

However, in regards to my son, she keeps him from me, does not reply to my phone calls or TXT.

start a paper trail...document every attempt to have contact with your son and get it to your lawyer....

tonight in our city is the Xmas Pageant. I have ask her if I could go as well, and she said that she will let me know - she never lets me know. I did not call again, but I did text her and say 'hope you and our son have fun tonight. wish i could be there'.

no more game playing it's an free country go to The pageant...why power struggle this and why let her dictate you not going to share a christmas thing with your son?????????

BUT
be upbeat
be charming
look her in the eyes and smile...
be kind...
and focus on your kidlet...
if you know where she will be bring her and your son a double hot chocolate piled high high with whipped cream....
offer her your gift..
if she refuses...
so be it....

She has told me what she wants, and yes I want to string it out as long as possible, because I believe that once she has everything she needs, that will be it. I guess I see it as a controlling issue, that while I have her things here, I can dictate to her - which is NOT the right thing to do

give her some things on the list...
quit the power struggle over this..
do it lovingly ..
it's stuff....

I am just scared about her coming and moving all her things. In my eyes that will be the end of our relationship

you gotta let go of your fears..
you can't make her do anything...
you can't let this fear control you or her...

let it go
pray hard for clarity and strength...

your fear paralyzes and backs you in to a corner...

change your language..
how do you think you controlled her...
suggest ways....you might be perceived as controlling...

offer them to her....

"you know dear I've been thinking about what you keep saying about you feeling controlled...(people love to know that something they said to someone has been thought about....)

speak lovingly ...

"and it sounds like it was not a lot of fun if you felt I was controlling and I am sorry about that ....
I never realized that you might have felt controlled whenever I ____________________ and fill this blank with something....

I can't fill it for you but you can...you must have some inkling as to what she is referring to...

and then say I really am sorry about that...I would not want to control you ever....

one of two things will occur...

she will hear you are HEARING her...cause what you came up validates her feelings...

OR
it might spark conversation like..
no I never thought you doing that was controlling but I didn't like it when you ______________

and then you have something you haven't had for a long long time..

COMMUNICATION!!!!!!!!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

plan a!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ark

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
start a paper trail...document every attempt to have contact with your son and get it to your lawyer....
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Which I am doing

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
no more game playing it's an free country go to The pageant...why power struggle this and why let her dictate you not going to share a christmas thing with your son?????????
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She never responded to my TXT, so I didnt hear from her again, nor did I get a reply. She is playing the games with me. Plus, even if I did just turn up there would be no way I would be able to find her (too many people)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
give her some things on the list...
quit the power struggle over this..
do it lovingly ..
it's stuff....
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So, just tell her she is free to come and get her clothes and some things for our son? Not give her everything on the list straight away?


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
change your language..
how do you think you controlled her...
suggest ways....you might be perceived as controlling...
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have also said these things to her some week ago. I told her that I was sorry if I ever came across as being controlling, and that I should've also seen her as an individual, not just my wife. She didnt say anything is return.

Our main problem is communication on her part. I always make myself open and available to talk with her, but she never wants to. She always focuses on what she wants, rather than the bigger picture.

Going back a couple of posts, how do I discourage her communication with these OM/OP? I cant force her to talk to me, but how can I plant the seeds so she can communicate with me more often? She says she just wants things to be amicable one day, and then the next she never compromises...

Also, reading about Plan A, how I encouraged my W to come with us when I have my son as I am taking him the place x, or when we have a bbq, also asking my W to come. However, no matter what I suggest, I always get the same answer - 'i dont want to spend anytime with you', 'i dont want to spend xmas with you' - do I keep persisting on this? I dont make a big deal when she says no..

<small>[ December 11, 2004, 05:31 PM: Message edited by: Confused5 ]</small>