I've read many posts about BS taking the WS back. What if it's the WS who wants to leave? I'm willing to take my WW back, but she doesn't know if she wants me back.
She knows I would take her back if she wants to come back. I finally got her to tell me she wants a divorce, and I told she is the one who has to file and move if that's what she wants. (So far she hasn't taken any big steps to do that.)

She did ask me last night, "If were able to fix our problems, how am I suppose to get rid of the OM?" I took that as a sign the fog was lifting.
But my question to everyone is this: Everyone talks about "taking" back their WS is it wrong to be the one who's asking for the WS back? (again I'm not grobbling at her feet or anything like that.)

<small>[ December 08, 2004, 03:56 AM: Message edited by: Fighting 4 my wife ]</small>

Your user name is fighting4mywife. That is who you should ask back....not the WS. She is using a WS ploy to provoke you, do you want to play into her hand?

When a BS takes a WS back most of the time false recovery happens almost immediately. Maybe a short honeymoon of 2 weeks max for most. It is usually a setup between the OP and WS to wear out the BS.

Make sure you understand what is happening and if there is a return it is her to the family not visa versa. After all you are not the ones who left the family arrangement or M, she did.

As for how she can get rid of the OM, let her know there are several ways, all of which will take just as much commitment and effort as she put towards the A.

Don't fall for her fog babble.

L.

I think I'm not taking the bait. I refuse to get mad at her when she says/does things that upset me. But I do ask her questions calmly and make her tell me things.
As for leaving the family thing.. what really concerns me is her son is only my step-son and if she goes he goes. It's bad enough I would lose her but she will take him away from me as well and I will have no rights to see him!
Would the OM try to convince my wife to leave me no matter what?

Ok, let's put stuff into perspective here. Consider that she may use your son as against you (withholding visitation, etc.). You are going to have to realize this may be and allow it since it is out of your control (unless you have adopted him).

As for the OM convincing her to leave you, what they maybe doing is plotting the demise of your M. Not only could they be plotting for you to end the M but also for you to pay for her to leave the M. In other words they want you, your blood and all the financial resources to enable their A.

That w/b worse case scenario and it is better t/b prepared.

It is vital you get with a good MC/IC or do the phone counseling with Jennifer @ MB. They will keep you on a sane but progressive level.

You need to read: Surviving an Affair, His needs/Her needs (both by Dr. W. Harley) and Love must be tough by Dr. James Dobson.

L.

I am going to a MC right now. my WW has gone once. She has said that she would like to go to counceling her but can't afford it, and can't find the time. I'm not pressuring her but always tell her she is more than welcome to come. I think I'm kind of getting through to her, because the days that we have heart to heart talks she'll say I love you after I do when we say goodbye. But if we don't talk at all to each other she gets upset and feels ill all day. I've skimmed through "the 5 love languages" and have read similar items online. We both know what went wrong in our marriage, where we stand is she doesn't think she is strong enough to fix it.

She is still babbling to you. She can't afford it? If she joins your sessions, aren't you paying for them? Can't find the time for MC but has time for an A? Hm.....

As for the ILY's, I think you get better response and bring her out of the fog if you limit the ILY's and hold back on the responses.

See you are filling some of her ENs and this c/b used against you. Tread lightly here. This is when a good MC will help.

Some of the help a WS needs is sometimes less help. Postive comments tend to get distorted in the fog and is twisted and used against the BS. There is no logic to why a WS does that but they do.

L.

f4my,

I gotta get some shut eye. I know Bob, aussie'sW and others are up and posting. The east coast MBers will be up and about soon. Keep posting as you need and they will respond. Will checkup on you later, ok?

g'nite,
L.

<small>[ December 08, 2004, 04:59 AM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>

Thanks for your responses...
But by not telling her ILY mean i'm not filling her EN and then she would go back to the OM?

She is already with OM. Your withholding the ILYs from the Ws and giving to her when she is like your W will show her you want your W back. If you tell a WS you love her, then where is the motivation to change to your W? Confusing I know but that's the fog logic. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

L.

I see....
another question I've told some of our mutual friends about what is going on. Two of them are female.. am I committing an EA and not knowing it?

Hi F4MW,

I know this is hard... you're getting some great advice from Orchid.

My W never left so I don't have any personal experience with what to do to get her back... but I do know that the more "needy" you are, the more you will tend to push her away.

SAA and HNHN are both good books for showing you how to respond to your W and win her back... Another good book is Torn Asunder by Dave Carder.

Semper Fi,
RIF

You have to avoid appearing needy or wanting to have heavy talks all the time, this won't further your goal at all.

My best guide in terms of fulfilling EN's was to do exactly what I felt like doing, no more, no less. If I felt like getting her a card, I did. If I felt like telling her ILY, I did. Don't force anything and don't hold anything back (except the needy whiny stuff). It has served me well thus far.

Thanks! this post is really helping, just being able to ask questions to people who have/are going through the same thing is giving me confidence. (My WW says I've lost my confidence and she thinks she is the cause of it.) So this is a great way to show myself and her that I am confident. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
The more I talk to my WW the more confident that she will come around and realize what is truly going on. BTW should I not bad mouth the OM. I've even told her that I don't want to bad mouth him because he is of no importance to me. (is that wrong to say?)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Fighting 4 my wife:
<strong> I see....
another question I've told some of our mutual friends about what is going on. Two of them are female.. am I committing an EA and not knowing it? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I would be very careful in confiding in another woman... you are VERY vulnerable right now, and by sharing your personal pain and hurts with them regarding your M, you are wide open for a potential emotional attachment with them.

Also, please give some thought to who you confide in... if you and your W do in fact decide to rebuild your M, then you will have to also deal with those individuals that you told...

Semper Fi,
RIF

f4myw

are you having a EA? well lets go through a check

are you withholding your contact with this lady from your WW?
Do you only talk about the A or other subjects excluding all others?
Do you seek her company instead of your ww regardless of what is on?
Is she more 'important' to you even to just speak to than your ww?

thats just a start but from what you post I doubt you will ans yes to all of them.

Remember it is important to keep that boundary in place between your friend and you.
ok to discuss issues but perhaps in the open .
You dont want to go anywhere with this unless you want to end your M, then most people will advise end M first, but I feel thats YOUR choice regardless and we can only advise.

A revenge affair is not the ans. If you want that then you really want out of the M in most cases. But sometimes we make mistakes on top of mistakes, hey we are human!

Be aware and question your actions but dont get paranoid over it, Its good healthy sign that you question yourself.

On the Ens & ILY's.

dont over do that side of it, As a FWW I paid little attention to that until I was ready to. FAr more effective to give one heartfelt EN daily or when you see her etc then the endless ILY's that mean little to her right now.
You may find out she questions you why dont do that anymore, I'm saving them for my wife got my attention.

She will try to manipulate you, have no doubt of this. Its common and part of the process.
She will rewite your History together to make you the bad man, anything & everything to justify the affair.
Its only begun so dont get panicky. The odds are in your favour, but time is not for her. Most A fail eventually, but by then you may no longer care. But I hope you can find your way back with her.
Do you know all abou Plan A?? Any questions?? HAve you exposed the A yet???

OK.. AS FOR THE POSSIBLE EA.. MY WW Knows I have talked to her about what's going on, and both my ww and i were friends with her before hand. we are friends and such. I'd rather talk to my wife over ANYONE else in the world. So my fear is that she would THINK its an EA so she would use it against me. So I think I'm going to talk to my friend less.
As for exposing the affair. I thinks so?
people at her work know what's going on because she works with the OM. she says she likes going to work because her work friends understand her. and our mutual friends are judging her. (maybe that's my fault?)
I think I understand Plan A. I'm nice to her and not making demands or anything like that. I've told her that I want to work things out but if she wants to leave, then she's the one who must file for divorce.

Well the EA isn't then is it.

As for exposure
I doubt its known over her work except to a few. Does her boss know, the company CEO, there may be rules about thia.

THESE are the people YOU should expose to. Dont assume its usually wrong on these cases.

What about the OM?? MArried, girlfriend, Mom alive??? expose to them. I would not trust any info about him from your W, she'll lie or she will be lied to.
You'd be suprised how many 'divorced', 'separating' and broken marraiges where the wife was not aware of it because the OM forgot to tell her.

Remember Plan A is not JUST about meeting ENS. its about setting boundaries, and ENDING the A, its not a 'walk all over me fest" and this is where many go wrong with it.

Oh dont degrade the OM in her hearing or where it may get back to her, it just makes her defend him more, because dont you know hes perfect ... yuck <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

That's why I choose my words carefully when talking about the OM. I only ask her questions that make me look like the better guy.
I know the OM and he and his wife divorced offer the A. I don't want to end up like that. I believe her boss knows, It's a small company with less than a dozen employees. Should I confront the OM. I haven't talked to him since I found out about the A.
also As time goes by, I get better at Plan A. I've made some mistakes with the plan early on, can that ruin the effectiveness? or does it just prolong the process?

F4MW,

Please DO NOT get your WW to go to MC with you while still involved with the OM. It is not only a waste of time and money but it is DANGEROUS for the marriage. I say dangerous because her heart will not be in rebuilding the marriage and will use the MC as a way to justify her view that the marriage is damaged beyond repair and that it is better to get divorced.

Follow Orchid's advice and schedule an appointment with Jennifer Harley Chalmers or her brother Steve Harley of Marriage Builders Counseling Service. OR Penny Tupy of Save Your Marriage Central . I'm not contradicting myself because these folks will not talk with a WS who is still in the affair. You are not getting counseling but coaching on things YOU can do to improve the odds to save and rebuild your marriage.

As far as meeting EN while in Plan A, here's what Dr Harley says about it in What Are Plan A And Plan B:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In these negotiations for total separation, the causes of the affair should be addressed. Since one of these causes is usually unfulfilled emotional needs, the betrayed spouse should express a willingness to meet those needs after the affair has ended.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Aside from financial and domestic support, the BS who tries to fulfill the EN that the OP is already fulfilling, is just spinning his/her wheels and going nowhere fast. It is only AFTER the WS has ended the affair, that the BS can have an impact on the WS by fulfilling his/her EN.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> people at her work know what's going on because she works with the OM. she says she likes going to work because her work friends understand her. and our mutual friends are judging her. (maybe that's my fault?) </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Isn't that another reason why she must to quit her job if she wants to save and rebuild the marriage? Being surrounded by affair enablers 40 or more hours a week is a toxic environment for any marriage trying to survive from an affair. It's bad enough to have her working with the OM but to be surrounded by morally bankrupt people makes it much worse.

TMCM