</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wish I could wave my magic wand (well, first I wish I HAD a magic wand), and make everyone's pain go away. Even if for just one day, so you could remember what it was like.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh.

That's JUST great. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

No magic wand, you say?

You tell us this NOW?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

How 'bout pixie dust, or whatever that stuff is -- you have some of THAT, right?


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">On a brighter, totally OT note, everyone who has come to see my newly painted rooms has LOVED them. All the orange-naysayers in my life, have had to admit that I pulled it off. One small victory for Spidey!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">VERY cool, Spidey! I recently read that "citrus" colors are IN. Just tell your naysayers to get with the program...


Call me strange, but I SAVED my rant from yesterday, before I deleting it from my post.
Something must've told me that I'd feel the same way today. I think I do, and maybe that's a good thing.

Here it is:


For the record, my concerns about Plan B are...

I can't think of any reason why she needs more time to decide.
IOW, I believe she knows what her heart is telling her, one way or the other.

She's had four months to get a good, solid taste of life as a single 42-year-old woman.

We have no children to keep us connected.
A byproduct of Plan B is "growing apart" over time. It's happened already to some extent (can only speak for myself, obviously)

For some reason, I consistently forget the fact that if we were to attempt reconciliation, she'd have to quit her job. I know that she would never do that -- it's literally ALL she has. I know... I've said that about 12 times. But why do I continue to ignore this simple fact -- a simple fact that makes absolutely everything else null and void...

I see two likely scenarios:

She does NOT want a D, but can't figure out how to get herself out of The Mess she's in. If that's the reality of the situation, is breaking Plan B going to drive her to D? It doesn't seem like it would.

She DOES want a D, but can't get herself to make the move. IF THAT's the reality of the situation, I don't give a hill of beans WHAT it takes to get her to file -- all she's doing is wasting more of my life while she fails to deal with the reality SHE chose -- and SHE created.


I asked her last Wednesday to let me know what the plan was by last Friday. Then again on Thursday I said "you DO want a D, right?" She pretty much confirmed that. Six days later... I've heard nothing.

###

Ok, let's update that to seven days later... I've heard nothing.

I did, however, get a piece of mail from her yesterday. The infamous !%@^& cable is still in her name, so she gets the bill. She sent it to me -- no note... nothing... not a "remember me?" or a "hope your doing well!" or even a benign little "go Eagles!" --- not even a return address on the envelope, which I thought was strange.

As I think about it, what seems stranger still is... having said "YES" -- she wants a D -- and she knows I'm waiting for some kind of plan/info/whatever -- wouldn't sending something to me in the mail be a perfect time to say SOMETHING like "We need to get this cable switched over to your name." Or, "I have an appt with the lawyer the 3rd Tuesday after Flag Day." Or, "We need to get those kayaks sold ASAP."

I'm beginning to understand why some people never get married a second time.

tqt, THAT was a VERY good rant. Seriously, on a scale, you are right up there with a near perfect score. Especially The infamous !%@^& cable part. VERY nice. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

All of those are valid, well thought-out, important issues, IMO. You are correct on all counts.

Did you watch Dr. Phil today with Kandi (aka, Mom23Boys)? Dr. Phil was telling her that she has given her M every conceivable effort, every chance. But the time is approaching where she, the best decision-maker left in the family, needs to start making decisions that work for herself and her kids. Mostly herself.

And that really rang true to me. Dr. Phil said that right now, Kandi's WH's resume looks pretty bad: he lies, betrays, attacks her each day with his infidelity. And Dr. Phil said she will mourn the man Ed (Kandi's WH) COULD be, not the man he is now. Because she doesn't want the man he is now.

Perhaps this is what you are searching for. To grieve the woman your WW COULD have been, the future you COULD have had. AND, that you found out now that this is her path she is choosing, while you are still young and handsome and active and can perhaps have another romance bloom in your life (AFTER Plan D is completed, of course ~ yes, I feel compelled to say that each time, sorry!).

I believe in time, you will not see the 24 years as a waste. I believe you will see it for what it was, good and bad. And the things you have learned to take into the next relationship. WOW! Imagine creating a new relationship, with real tools and purpose and long-term vision.

And if Plan D is what you feel needs to happen eventually, it is OK for you to file first. Because as you have said, you cannot sit around forever waiting for her to decide, or act on her decision.

I hope you taped Dr. Phil today, or can watch it somehow. I thought it was very balanced, very insightful, with lots of common sense.

If you're out there, did you see it Homer? What did you think, if you did?

Spidey

I am SOOO tempted to call WW and ask her to watch Dr. Phil right now...

Should I (?)

I WISH WS's were up for some A education! But, it seems to go against what they want to know about their present sitch. Even after my H came home, it took him a while to warm up to the idea that his A was not "special," that there were no "unique" circumstances that "nobody else" could possibly understand.

After a couple months, he began to realize how horrifyingly alike all A's are, that they aren't about "love" or "soul mates," or any of that other crap. IMO, they are about escaping from reality, a way to keep yourself REALLY busy so you don't have to deal with any REAL issues.

*sigh*

So, what else is going on over there in Pennsylvania? What are you doing for the Superbowl? Since H finished my room with me, he got his new BIG TV. So, we are having friends over here. I told H, "I don't care what we do or where we go, but this year, we are going TOGETHER."

Last year at this time, he was deep in the fog. He was still pursuing the OW who had dumped him. He gave her a Valentine's card. It was the last time he went to her home, I guess. And since she had a boyfriend at the time, she didn't think his "Great Friend" card to her was appropriate. She thought it was OK to have a R with him while he was M'd to me, but didn't think it was OK for him to have a R with her since she had her new BF. Strange lady.

And tonight is the elementary school's annual "Sock Hop." Last year, I went to this event with my youngest (he's in Middle School this year, so we aren't going), while H went to the Scouting Klondike with OW and her DS. THAT was a hard weekend. I can barely believe it has been a year already.

Are you doing a party at your place, or a friends? Or are you one of the people that goes to a Sport's Bar with a big group and makes a lot of noise?

Spidey

Spidey, am I starting to convince you of something, or does it just seem that way?

I just realized that D-Day was one year ago (+/- a day or two; forgot the actual date).

It's been a good year... expanded my personal library by 93 books... figured out I can actually make noise in the morning without waking anyone up... calculated there's only 144 different ways to eat a hamburger... gained an appreciation for just how HUGE a king-size bed really is... and for the first time in my life, I can actually SEE all the way to the back of the refrigerator.

In celebration of all these wonderful things and so much more, I'm going to call my WW/STBXW sometime this weekend, emerge from my Pseudo-Plan B for a little while (somewhere between 5 minutes and forever) and try to get an outside-in look at the remnants of my soon-to-be quarter-century-long relationship.

I do believe in the Fog Theory, and the Alien Theory -- but I also believe that my WW/STBXW is no longer in that state. Therefore, after at least 16+ months of lies, and a solid 12 months of trying to save my M, the time is coming (has come?) to rescue whatever self-respect, self-esteem, self-worth, and dignity not already destroyed by the woman I wanted to spend my life with. I can't blame myself for wanting -- and needing -- to do that. I just can't. I have to live the rest of my life with me.

Now, Spidey... about them Eagles...
No magic wand needed for THIS one! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

All that Eagles green looks pretty good against those new orange walls, donchathink? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

OK, first thing is first, I have to disagree with ONE part of your post:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Therefore, after at least 16+ months of lies, and a solid 12 months of trying to save my M, the time is coming (has come?) to rescue whatever self-respect, self-esteem, self-worth, and dignity not already destroyed by the woman I wanted to spend my life with. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It may seem like you are "rescuing" the remnants of what you have left of these things from her "destruction," BUT . . . these things never left you. You will have to recognize and acknowledge them yourself now, as there is nobody enabling these feelings in you, but . . . YOU never lost your dignity. She did. You never lost your self-esteem, OR self-worth, she did. It may feel that you lost your self-respect by giving your M such a long time to recover, but you didn't ~ SHE did!!!

You yourself are still in tact. You took the high road in every conceivable sense. I understand the self-doubt. Because I have experienced it as well. You have heard me in my pity-party asking WHY and HOW? What did I DO to DESERVE to be betrayed by TWO people in my life, who I really thought were my strongest allies?

But it wasn't about me at all. I am not on a pedestal about the whole thing (well, most days, I could imagine JL calling me on if he had enough time to read all my posts ~ thank you JL, for the posts you have given me in the past, BTW), BUT, the A was all about H.

I STILL struggle with "how can I continue this M with this man who did this to me?" And not just the initial betrayal ~ the abandonment, the threats of divorce, the withdrawal of his love from me, etc. The stuff that happened in the 3 months after D-day, were at least equal to the pain of the actual infidelity.

I feel that it is my "job" here at MB to challenge people in their thinking about Plan D. And it seems to me, the longer you are in Plan B, the more certain you become of how you feel. Also, you have been in this thing a VERY long time. You HAVE given 100% (I personally don't believe in saying anything more than 100%, like 110%, because after 100, I think it just becomes symbolic ~ I mean, 100% is 100%, right? anyway . . . ).

I support you (100% <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) in whatever you choose to do. I will throw out my challenges, my questions, my opinions, and even my long-winded stories ~ but in the end, it is YOUR decision. And you are fully capable of making that decision. I have every (100%) confidence in you.

Furthermore, </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> All that Eagles green looks pretty good against those new orange walls, donchathink? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">, I was JUST thinking tonight that GREEN might go really well in my bathroom! With the orange! AND, you are right! H and I went shopping at the mall today, and the "citrus" colors ARE in this year! I told my H this is the first time that MY tastes have coordinated with the rest of the world's tastes! How exciting.

Hang in there, tqt. And good luck on your phone call. I hope she can give you something that means anything to you. {{{{{tqt}}}}}

Spidey

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I support you (100% ) in whatever you choose to do. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I HATE when you do that.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I will throw out my challenges, my questions, my opinions, and even my long-winded stories </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">All four of those things are worth every keystroke, I assure you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I told my H this is the first time that MY tastes have coordinated with the rest of the world's tastes! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Uhh... what makes you think it isn't the other way around? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hang in there, tqt. And good luck on your phone call. I hope she can give you something that means anything to you.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks, Spidey... I wimped out again tonight. I'm starting to wonder why I keep doing that...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I wimped out again tonight. I'm starting to wonder why I keep doing that... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Um, human nature? Because you don't get all excited about the thought that your WW will confirm your suspicions and say, "Why yes, dear, I do want a D. I am sure about it."? Because no matter how "ready" we feel we are to hear painful things, they still hurt?

You are putting it off, just as a kid would put off a tetnus shot if he could (as mine would if I gave them a choice!). AND, when the pain of where you are now becomes greater than the perceived pain of hearing what she says, you will pick up the phone and call her.

More human nature. We sure are predictable, aren't we? Not in all ways, but there are certain things we humans just "don't" like, on the norm. Pain, discomfort, conflict. And it almost seems that we as a society are addicted to FEAR. I know it is my emotion of choice. I am so sick of that feeling, whenever I feel it creeping up on me, I fling it away!

Which is very connected to me learning to live in the NOW. Right now, I am safe. Right now, I am happy. I have nothing to fear RIGHT NOW. Do you maybe THINK about the phone call (too much)? Maybe you could only think of the phone call from YOUR end. Make your list of question(s), and some possible questions to counter her known fog-babble. And be in the now. While you are making your list, she is not hurting you.

And while you are dialing the phone (barring some freak-dialing accident), you are safe. Live in each moment until you get to the talking part. Then follow your notes, and detach and listen to her answers. DON'T get off the phone again without a PLAN in place.

tqt: "Do you want Plan D?"

WW: "Yes, I do, I'm just not sure how to go about it all."

tqt: "Well, you make an appointment with a lawyer, and your lawyer talks to my lawyer, and it is over pretty quickly."

OR: "We can hire an intermediary, less expensive than 2 lawyers, and that intermediary will help us iron out the issues for a quick filing at the court house (a viable option for you, with no kids and custody and all that)."

WW: "Well, I just don't know . . . blah blah blah, more fog babble meant to daze and confuse you . . . "

tqt: "Tell you what, I will find us an intermediary, and you just show up for the appointment. Later, IF you decide you want a lawyer involved, just call and leave me a message, and we'll switch gears. I'll contact you next week regarding a mediator, unless I hear different from you in the meantime."

GOOD-bye!

Intermediaries are usually counselors who have been trained in this area. I would look through the yellow pages, and start calling counselor's offices with the large staffs, and they probably have one or more trained. Many MC's also have contact numbers. If you've ever had an IC, that might be a good place to start for a recommendation.

Are you going to try and wait until after the big game? Do you think she will call you that day, and say, "Go Eagles!"?

Hang in there.

Spidey

Good Morning Spidey!

Do you have an opinion, from ALL that you know about my WW: do you think she's ready for the Big D?

I'm having a really bad day.
I started out in pretty good shape, but have taken a steady dive down since this morning.

I'm miss her like hell... and it hurts.

Once again, I guess this is "normal" -- to be doing so well, and then completely crash like this(?)

I'm becoming afraid of the months to come... spring is in the air here today (well, it's sunny and warm, anyway), and it's making me dread the coming of spring, and then summer, without her.

The only thing that seems to make me feel a little better is letting my head play one of its favorite games: imagining her right now, in turmoil, missing me, wanting to come home.

After our first MC session last summer, the C said to me "Well, she certainly doesn't talk or act like a woman who wants a divorce."

Is she acting now like a woman who wants a divorce?

If I knew for sure what she was thinking, feeling, hoping... I could deal with it -- regardless. I just want to get started on My Life, Part 2 -- if that's what has to be.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Do you have an opinion, from ALL that you know about my WW: do you think she's ready for the Big D? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My Opinion, which of course doesn't mean diddly, is that No, she is not ready for Plan D ~ any more than you are. HOWever, I am not concerned with her well-being, I am concerned with yours. She has made her choices, and continues to make that same choice every day. I truly don't think she knows WHAT she wants.

But you do, don't you? You don't want to play this game any more, do you? It is as JL said to you a while back, everyone has a breaking point. Everyone runs out of gas, then runs out of reserves, and is then done. I honestly don't know how long I could have kept my vision of unconditional love alive for my H, if it had gotten drawn out as long as yours has.

At this point, the only thing that might snap her out of it is if she begins to feel CERTAIN that she is going to lose you. And then she STILL might not.

I don't remember the name of the lady, but I read her posts when I first came here. She was a FWW, who had D'd her BH, and lived with the OM. They had been D'd quite a long time, maybe 6 or 18 months. One day, she was sitting on the bed in her hotel room (traveling for her job, I think), and she looked at herself in a mirror in the room, and had an epiphany. She all of a sudden realized that she didn't recognize herself, who was this woman??? What had she done??? She all of a sudden remembered she loved her BH, and wanted to be with him.

So, she called him. And just the night before, he had asked his girlfriend to marry him, and they were engaged. The woman missed her opportunity to reconcile her M. She just didn't get it, for a long time. Then it hit her like a freight train.

And that is why she continued posting here at MB. To help everyone, especially FWS or WS to recognize, sooner rather than later, what their actions were creating. She posted here to try and help just one person avoid the sitch she found herself in.

I have always remembered that story. It is so sad to me. BUT, sometimes, it just works out like that.

I truly think your WW will have her epiphany some day. I think you are important enough to her that she could swallow her pride and fear and face her issues and work through them with you. I can see that happening very easily. I can also realize that she might not have that epiphany until after the D, one day as she sees herself in the mirror and thinks, "Who is this person I've become? I don't recognize myself."

And maybe you will still be there waiting, and maybe you will be dating the cute blonde at the gym.

I guess it comes down to making some decisions that work for you at this point. Continuing to live your life in limbo, waiting and wondering about the next phone call, the next "dog visit," is NOT working for you. You deserve happiness in your life, love, respect, affection, admiration. Just as much as I do, and every other human being on the planet.

So, dealing with what you can control, what do YOU want?

If it is sunny there, even if you don't feel like it, I encourage you to take a walk at a favorite place, or around your neighborhood. Sunshine produces a natural high, and just 15 minutes of exposure on your hands and face allows your body to produce all the Vitamin D you need for 1 week to absorbe Calcium. Just let your mind wander. Put on headphones if you've got them.

Spring is a time of new growth, blooming out of the cold dark, into the bright warmth. You are going to have to start thinking of things that will help you get excited about the changes in your life ~ whatever those things might be.

When I had to realize that my H might not come back, I tried looking at the glass half-full, and it was a challenge at first. Then I started getting excited about being on my own for the first time in my life. No one to answer to, no one to consult. What did I like to do? Just me? I found out I like shopping FAR more than I had ever realized. Just walking around a store, looking for nothing in particular, but looking at almost EVERYthing, is VERY soothing to me.

For the first time ever, when H had the kids, I was alone in my own house. ALONE! I hadn't been alone since before I met my H. What did I like to watch on TV? It is amazing to me how much different my solo thoughts were, when I thought I liked other stuff more when H was home. I still like that stuff, BUT, I like my OWN now, too.

Go for a walk/run in the sunshine, tqt. You will feel better, I think.

Spidey

You have mail!

Spidey,

I just want to say Thank You.
You are awesome.
And thanks for showing up at my pity party yesterday... you made it a better place to be.

I'm processing... and as best I can tell(!)... preparing myself to start the D process this week. Preparing in all ways, I mean -- emotionally, mentally, logistically, legally.

I did muster up the "courage" to call her last night -- no answer. I'll admit that her not being there made me angry... and in recognizing my anger, I then felt pathetic. Sometimes in all of this mess, I find it hard to distinguish between...
strength/conviction/fortitude/love
and...
desperation, neediness and self-pity.

I have some (more) serious soul-searching to do, in an attempt to understand and come to terms with what it is about me that has allowed me to go through this... to expose myself to this for so long... and to not have "given up" -- and to not have said "that's enough!"

To ask you that question -- do you think my WW is ready for divorce -- I know, and knew as I asked it -- how unfair to you that was. It was, indeed, a stupid question. And I sincerely apologize for that.

Quoting Ark on a recent post (thank you Ark)...

"The challenge is to feel your own souls worth...even when struggling with a weight that crushes your chest....let it not crush your spirit..."

Well... I can feel the weight on my spirit... I can feel it taking its toll. That means it's time to call it a day... or 8760 days, to be exact!

My heart is telling me to get in touch with her sometime today or tomorrow, just to let her know I'll be starting the process this week.

I'm only human, and the worst part of my humanness would get some sort of sick pleasure out of surprising her with the legal papers... hey, maybe on Valentine's Day... that now oh-so-painful holiday when a year ago I discovered my marriage was a lie.

The better part of me (and the part that, thankfully, will win!) knows that she will be hurt enough as it is (and the fact that I care about that so much is both a mystery to me, and frustrates me)... and I will take the "high road" until the end. At least I will try to, as best I can.

Onward and upward...

Thank you, Ms. Spidey <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Wow! What a game! I LOVE it when they are suspenseful, and the Eagles dang near pulled off a HUGE upset.

And I had to crawl back to bed on MY elbows last night (too many beers) ~ luckily, just from my living room, though. And I am not feeling too well today. *ugh*

Hope you are feeling better than me! Chat at you later.

Spidey

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hope you are feeling better than me!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">oh man... I don't think so... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

on the bright side... there's Super Bowl merchandise on sale here for really cheap, if anyone wants it...

I have not called WW yet, so...
For the record, it's been 12 days with no contact of any kind.

Just got an email from her:

(health insurance for both of us is thru her company, and is deducted from her paycheck)


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Subject: Insurance Coverage

I need to make selections for our open enrollment for insurance with changes effective March 1. The cost of our current plan that covers both of us is this: [insurance company] - $xxx deductible then 100% in network. $xx doctor visit copay.

My cost to cover both of us beginning March 1 will be xxx.xx per pay.


Single 2Person Difference per pay Month

Medical xx.xx xxx.xx +xx.xx +xxx.xx
Dental x.xx xx.xx +x.xx + xx.xx
Vision .xx x.xx +.xx + x.xx

xxx.xx +xx.xx +xxx.xx


Can you get coverage for cheaper than that difference through [tqt's company]? If yes, can it start to cover you as of March 1?

Please let me know. We will also need to get together regarding 2004 taxes sometime soon. I do not want to wait until the 11th hour to figure out what is owed for 2004.

Sorry to bother you.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Gee, the kindness and warmth and sweetness just drips off the screen, doesn't it?

But, I'm totally confused.

12 days ago I said to her "Time to get the ball rolling, don't you think?" (meaning D).
She said "Yeah, I guess it is." I asked her to let me know what the plan was, what she needed from me, etc.
Eleven days ago I called and asked "How are you, ok?" She started crying and said "I'm just stressed out..."
I said "You do want a divorce, right?" She said something like "Yeah, I guess that's what we have to do."

I'm just confused. If she wants a divorce, her email doesn't make much sense to me. Nothing about her makes much sense to me.......

I actually thought it sounded as though she is beginning that process. Sounds to me like she is wanting you to get on your own insurance, so that you aren't bound by that commonality (is this a word? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) anymore. Does that make sense?

And instead of just coming right out and saying that, perhaps this is her way of being "nice" about it.

I would just contact her back and tell her that 1)you will look into getting your own insurance so she doesn't have to enroll you on hers, thanks for the reminder, BTW, and 2)that you will probably just be taking your taxes to an accountant this year, since you have to make some concrete financial decisions with the impending D.

Short, polite, businesslike. My newly D'd friend came over last night for the game, and he was telling us some of the conversations he has with his XW, who had an A. I was complementing him on his well-established boundaries with her, how he asks for receipts for daycare and other expenses, so he knows how much to give her. Because she can't understand why he doesn't just trust her (he's like, why WOULD I trust her?). And he told her, "We have a business relationship now. We have kids, we must communicate about them and money, and that is it."

This is the relationship you will need to cultivate with your WW if you want Plan D. If Plan D is what YOU want, this is the perfect opportunity to make your position clear to her. IMVHO.

And {{{{{tqt}}}}}, I am sorry you are still having to deal with her strange ways. I understand your frustration and pain, and my heart goes out to you. Stay strong, because this, too, shall pass (eventually, I promise).

Spidey

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Sorry to bother you. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And this sounds contrived to me, as well. If she thought insurance was important, it is not a bother, it is a necessity. Almost sounds like she is trying to placate you, or something, perhaps to have you write back, "You aren't bothering me."

Some little game or dance she is acting out. I really think you should be as sterile and business-like as possible. If you get into anything personal, I think it will just play into whatever she is trying to create with you (continuation of admiration/love/affection of her? Even though she claims she wants a D, she just can't help herself trying to get the old reliable "fix" from you?). Perhaps I am being too hard on her, but that statement just sounds silly to me.

Spidey, who is a little fuzzy, and a little cranky today, because she poisoned her body with barley, hops, and alcohol. That was my legal disclaimer, BTW. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I actually thought it sounded as though she is beginning that process. Sounds to me like she is wanting you to get on your own insurance, so that you aren't bound by that commonality (is this a word? ) anymore. Does that make sense?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm not so sure. She brought up the insurance thing a couple times before -- 2 or 3 months ago -- and she was coming from a cashflow perspective (she didn't want to have to pay for it, if I could get it cheaper myself).

She says "Can you get it cheaper... If you can then..."

Not "March 1st would be a good time to change the insurance stuff -- can you get your own by then?"

She knows I'm paying her car insurance, and hasn't said anything about that... just SO many things she could be doing, saying... towards ending our marriage, and she's not doing anything.

WTH... I guess I have to call her tonight. If somewhere deep down in her heart she does NOT want a D, she sure is playing this ALL wrong...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> just SO many things she could be doing, saying... towards ending our marriage, and she's not doing anything. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hmmm, well, either are YOU. Perhaps you BOTH have a very stong case of Conflict Avoidance???

She could sit on this fence for forever, tqt, as you have pointed out. You know that saying, "If it is to be, it is up to ME?"