Spidey,
Seriously...are you trying to tell me something in a roundabout way?

I have no idea. I am trying to be a sounding board, a reflection for what you say you want, so you can maybe SEE if it is what you really want.

Like I have said before, I am concerned primarily with YOUR personal healing. If you feel that will happen by Plan B, I will support a "dark" Plan B.

If you feel that your personal healing will happen by Plan D, I will support you moving forward in that process.

I don't want to influence you either way, just help guide you to making the best possible decision for YOU.

tqt, seriously, what are you saying to me? What do YOU want, that you can control? If you are clear as mud, I totally understand that, as well. THAT is the story of MY life! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Spidey

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Spidey, who is a little fuzzy, and a little cranky today, because she poisoned her body with barley, hops, and alcohol. That was my legal disclaimer, BTW.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A-HA! NOW I get it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Sorry, Spidey... I sorta forgot about that... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

FUNNY... I'm listening/watching to the Big B'Ball Game on ESPN, and just as I was reading your legal disclaimer, I heard one of the commentators say something about "serious hops!"


ok... down to business here...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">tqt, seriously, what are you saying to me? What do YOU want, that you can control? If you are clear as mud, I totally understand that, as well. THAT is the story of MY life! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ya know... I think you GOT IT right there... I'm as clear as mud right now.
In some ways I'm more confused now than ever. I honestly don't know WHAT is going on with me. Maybe I've just reached some saturation point. This HAS been going on for a long time... as you remind(ed) me...

I do know my feelings for her are changing. And I know I've lost a huge amount of respect for her. Just in the last couple months.

All that is sad, but...

And that PAIN is gone... but I also remember just a day or two ago I wrote about how badly I missed her...

Problem #1 here, again - I THINK -- is that I have ZERO confidence that anything she says is REAL! It seems like either there's NO emotion whatsoever, OR, it's nasty-serve-no-purpose crap that comes out of her mouth... (sorry, that doesn't sound nice, but that's the way it is!)

Did I really spend 24 years with this person?!?
WHO DID I spend 24 years with?!?

I need more processing time.

Hey, be nice... I was overserved my hops and barley last night too...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I need more processing time. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Not that it matters much, but, I agree. I think that is why Plan B is so important. Great processing time, without much chaos to distract you. I sense that you WANT to move (in some direction), but that you are unsure.

So, we'll just keep on keeping on, and keep posting, and keep processing, until you feel confident in what you want to do. Sound like a plan, Stanley? Er, tqt??

I have fully recovered from my poisoning. How are you doing today? I didn't even shower yesterday until 8:30 pm! I was toasted.

Hope you have a productive day at work today.

One question ~ why don't you use email to communicate with your WW? You both have access during the day, apparently, and you (at least, not sure about her) have great skill with the written word. I think it is much easier than a phone call, and you could perhaps get more information. If you ask her a question, and she doesn't respond, you can send her a reply that says: "Why didn't you answer this question? I would like an answer please. Thank you!"

If I were you, I would send her a reply to her email, and say: "WW, I am confused by your email. I was under the impression you wanted to proceed with filing for D. Therefore, won't I NEED to get separate insurance, off your policy? Also, you will need to contact our insurance provider and have them put you on your own policy, and begin sending the bills to your address. All these issued need to be resolved to move forward with what you say you want."

This is how my H and I communicated for a while, and it is much easier, IMO. You can edit, delete, and reword. I think it is much more effective, when emotions are so sensative.

Spidey

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Not that it matters much, but, I agree. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What?!? Of course it matters... you make sense even when you're toasted! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />


Glad you're feeling better today... I am too, but got up ~4:00 this morning, so TIRED is the word for today... again. Maybe in Life #2 I'll decide to sleep a little more.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">One question ~ why don't you use email to communicate with your WW? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">VERY good question... and I'll try to answer somewhat intelligently.
I figured out a long time ago that the less opportunity WW has to think about what she says, the better chance there is to get some kind of emotion out of her. Said another way, with email she's MUCH more likely to be "all business" -- no emotion... cold... stone-faced... etc.
And, the same applies to at-work vs. at-home situations -- the odds of her being human are much greater when she's NOT at work.

I could take that further... just a bit...

It all fits together nicely... there's some degree of "identity crisis" there.. part of this WHOLE DAMN THING is the fact that she doesn't know WHO she is... what she wants... what is important... what she's missing/searching for... her inability to be REAL... after all, she destroyed her M for OM (though she won't admit that, of course), and their R is still a secret... it ALL fits together.

ANYway... part of my NON-PLAN <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> at this point wants nothing BUT the business-end of things with her, so you are right -- email would be the way to go. And, assuming things continue on this path to D, email will hopefully suffice for 99% of the required communication -- once we get to the point of no return with the D process, I really don't think I'll ever want to see her again, given a choice. Unbelievable to think about... I think...

BUT... the OTHER part of me still would like to ATTEMPT to communicate with a real human-type person. If I allow myself to think and feel the "wrong" way, I can still easily slip into that overwhelming disbelief that this whole thing happened! It's like 24 -- actually I think we're up to 25, so WTH --- it's like twenty-five years of my life have all been deduced to one big WTF ?!?!??!?!
So, in that sense, I still feel like I want (not need), and deserve (no [censored]!) SOME kind of HUMAN person on the other end of a phone line, rather than some emotionless cardboard-cutout character that spits out nothing but sarcasm and cutting remarks.

I'm sorry, what was the question again?


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If I were you, I would send her a reply to her email, and say: "WW, I am confused by your email. I was under the impression you wanted to proceed with filing for D. Therefore, won't I NEED to get separate insurance, off your policy? Also, you will need to contact our insurance provider and have them put you on your own policy, and begin sending the bills to your address. All these issued need to be resolved to move forward with what you say you want."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree with you, Spidey, but here's what I did instead! (huh?!?)

I decided a happy and "indifferent" response is what I wanted -- for right now --- so I emailed her this morning:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Hi WW...
I'll check into it today, and get back to you!

>Sorry to bother you.
Huh?!? No bother!

Me
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She replied: "Thanks"


!*@#^*!&@#
Just a little side note here... HOW do I get away from that feeling that I've COMPLETELY WASTED 25 YEARS?!?!?
I gave SO MUCH of myself to that woman... If they put her thru an MRI machine right now, would they see nothing but a bunch of wires and circuit boards and mechanical innards?!?!? I don't f'ing get it!?!?
(end of side note)

THEN, this evening I'm going to (try) to call her, and take the approach that you suggest above. (the "I'm confused...")


ps. my apologies for the foul language

WARNING: MORE FOUL LANGUAGE FOLLOWS
(Mods: please don't kick me off the boards... my WW will have me finished off in no time, I promise)


*** UN-F'ING-BELIEVABLE!!!!!!!!!!!!! ***


Another email from WW:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
I have another question.... Would you like, or be available, to dog-sit next week for Tuesday and Wednesday night? I have the annual meeting in [xyzxz]. I already have C5 at the [kennel] reserved, but if you could, I am sure they would prefer to be with you.

WW (she even signed her name this time!!)
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">THIS is the annual meeting where one &*(@# year ago she screwed the OM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The annual meeting where I had flowers ordered and waiting in her room when she checked in, with a note telling her how proud I was of her (she organizes the G.D. thing)

Where I called her up and asked her about the @#&(@# Valentines Day cards I found for the OM, and she convinced me they were for me!!!

Where I SUSPECTED SOMETHING was NOT right at this meeting, but COULD NOT drive to check things out that infamous night, because I was watching the dogs!!!!

She says she wants a D, and then asks me to take the dogs --- the dogs who have more heart and soul and dignity and decency than my WW !!!

She didn't seem to care about dumping the dogs in the kennel when she went for her 3-day weekend flings with the other [censored]!!!

MOST importantly.... where the hell are my Tums?!?!?!

tq...Do not take the dogs. Let her deal with it, unless you two are still sharing finances and it would put you out of the $$.
Your WW is sosoooooooo much like my WH. I love those one word email responses. gives you the warm fuzzies huh?
I think you should take the ball and run with it.
Tell her you will take care of the insurance for yourself. Start thinking and acting as if the divorce is going to take place. If she doesn't like it...guess what she will have to actual say something to you or not.

My WH actually told me this weekend that he cared about me but didn't think it was going to work. Wants to get some info on D since he has no idea what it all entails and actually thinks we can do it all without an attorney. Yeah right. He has 4 different retirement accounts with big dinero in them plus he owns 25% of his company. He must think I am a fool. Also he lives in a one bedroom apt so he doesn't understand that that is not acceptable for having his kids over nor does he have a clue how much he will be paying in child support.

Back to you, I think I have asked you this before but do you know what your WW was missing in your marriage. Is this all about her never being out on her own 25 years ago and now she wants to find herself? I say let her, just because you file for D doesn't mean its a done deal. How about legal sep? Then she will have a taste of the real world without you. Maybe she will realize just what you have to offer and life is not so great without you. Have you asked her to go to MC? You and I can not keep giving, giving, giving of ourselves and not get anything in return. It is literally hell on earth and no one deserves that. I am sorry to all the MBer's but I often think that this is alot of bunk. No one ever talks about whether the marriage is really worth saving. I think there needs to be a checklist regarding your relationship before A and after A and if you get a score over X, then the answer is BaBye, Seeya, don't let the door hit you in the a**. And then a link to divorce support groups on how to let go and get your life back on track.

I don't know why I can't let go, because I know in my heart this is useless. My WH will never change, our M was never that great and he continues to blame me for everything. So as you would say WTF? Why? What is wrong with the human brain?

Oh my heavens. I think you should not open the door to her anymore. Look what she does when you open yourself just a crack??? It's all about her her her her her.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I gave SO MUCH of myself to that woman... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Until you STOP giving ANYthing to her, you will continue to feel "wasted," to some degree. IMO.

IF you had sent her the business email, and left out the part about not being "bothered," I don't think she would have asked you about the dogs. You don't NEED to know when she is going out of town, especially this time of year, with all the triggers. She is sooooooo fogged out. She just doesn't GET IT, tqt. She just doesn't.

Continuing to expose yourself to her will just end in your continued hurting, me thinks. Her head is in WS La-La land, my friend.

I think you should do business with business. That's what I did. My H wanted to just have a business relationship with me? Fine. Give it back to her. Reflect it back, be the mirror of her own actions BACK to her. Does that make sense? I really feel that if you can get to that point, some of your wounds will ~ if not close ~ at least not be constantly irritated.

{{{{{tqt}}}}}

Spidey

Homer, you are describing MY FWH EXACTLY! He said ALL those things. He actually told me several times that he might still have feelings for me, but D was the only option he could see. MAYBE some time in the future we could get back together, but not BEFORE a D. He also wanted to do a D ourselves, with forms from the Internet. He also had no clue about child support, about how he would function with his boys in the tiny tiny apartment for more than a few months.

I don't think every M here at MB is salvagable. BUT, that is not my decision to make. Each person has to make their own decisions, with all the information they have at the time. The very nature that we all sought out a Marriage Building site after D-day says a lot about what we wanted INITIALLY.

Which is why MB HAS a D support board. There are many MBers over there that filed for the D themselves. I don't support D, I support my fellow members in the choices that they make.

Personally, after MUCH soul searching, anger, waffling, screaming (just to myself), and intense workouts, I realized that D was NOT for me. Meaning, in my sitch, my beliefs, my pre-A M, I decided that I would NOT be the one to file. I ALSO decided that if my H did file, I would not try and slow it down or stop it (in my state, it is no-fault, so I could only slow it down). And I told him as much. But that was MY decision.

Anyway, Homer, is the A still going on? Or has it ended and your WH is still foggy? The OW dumped my FWH right after D-day and his mental breakdown, but she still took his calls. So, it took him 3 months to defog with just that continued contact! And right up to the end, he thought he could still be her "friend," and come home and be M'd to me. Their brains get REALLY warped. My H now cannot believe some of the stuff he actually BELIEVED back then. It scares him, that he became so different.

Spidey

Hi Homer,
My heart goes out to you, it really does. You sound so frustrated (unlike me -- calm, cool and collected, of course! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ).

What was my WW missing? I'm not sure. She told the MC that I was controlling. In two different sessions he asked her for an example of HOW I was controlling. Uhh... this is kind of embarrassing, because it exposes to the world what a ROTTEN person I really am. She said an example of how I'm controlling was when, a month ago, I convinced her not to put a 2nd coat of wax on the kitchen floor.
The 2nd example she gave was when I "controlled" when we refinanced our mortgage a couple years ago.

She also brought up how I didn't want to go to a party once that she really wanted to go to -- in 1983. That's Nineteen-Eighty-Three.

What was she missing? My theory is a combination of MLC (she admitted to being "devastated" by turning 40; a year or so later, of course), not handling her father's accidental death in a healthy way (two different IC's diagnosed depression, but she refused to admit being depressed), no hobbies/interests outside work, and no children. I'm sure I contributed to the situation when, looking back now, when all this was apparently brewing, I was also working a LOT -- too much -- not by choice but by necessity. I honestly think she got bored, depressed, scared (MLC, etc), all at once. And on top of all that, I won't even go into the "issues from childhood" stuff -- her father was married 3+ times, her mother 3+ times --- her parents' divorce was nasty -- etc, etc.

She never said anything about being unhappy, of course.

So... as far as MB principles and EN's go, I'd have to say I didn't fill her need for recreational companionship for a period of time.
I can forgive myself for that, however... for many different reasons....

But whatever she WAS missing, I truly believe she hasn't found it yet -- with all this chaos/etc it's easy to forget the fact that just EIGHT weeks ago she was in tears and said "I'm just not happy." That kinda sums it all up, doesn't it?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How about legal sep? Then she will have a taste of the real world without you. Maybe she will realize just what you have to offer and life is not so great without you. Have you asked her to go to MC? You and I can not keep giving, giving, giving of ourselves and not get anything in return.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No such thing as legal sep in this state. She's already had a taste of the real world without me, and she'll go to her grave convincing me, everyone else, and herself that she's happier now, and made the right decision to leave.

And you are right about giving, giving, giving... loving someone is not supposed to be this way... not supposed to be this hard. And, it's a thankless, unrewarding (and really tiring!) way to live.


More later... CAN'T miss another workout, so gotta go now while I still have some energy left.
SPIDEY!! you are right on, of course... will see if I can conjure up the nerve to call her and "do business" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> with her this evening.
So far I've ignored her last email about the DOGS... I'll probably LB my [censored] off about it when I call her, though.

The PROBLEM is, she seems to completely lack the ability to understand -- EMPATHIZE WITH -- some real simple, basic, fundamental human EMOTIONS.

Spidey, when you say she JUST DOESN'T GET IT -- I think we're talking about the same thing. The SAME <just doesn't get it> thing. Get it?

That's bad news.
And that's a symptom of something(s)... the subject of which I'll pass on for now.

So how's the weather over on the D/D forum, anyway? Should I take a jacket?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> She also brought up how I didn't want to go to a party once that she really wanted to go to -- in 1983. That's Nineteen-Eighty-Three. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My FWH brought up in MC that we weren't compatible, and that I didn't contribute to our quality of life, because when the tennis grand slams come on, I watch them when I am home.

So, when he had warm fuzzies for me, my tennis watching addiction (just a few times a year) was cute to him, and he supported me (taping it when I wasn't home, letting me choose it at night instead of our "usual" shows, etc.). BUT, as soon as he began rewriting the past, and was LOOKING for stuff wrong with me, that's what he came up with.

So, the Australian Open was just on. And I kept asking him if it bothered him that I was watching it, and he kept saying, "Of course not. I know how much you like tennis."

Finally, I reminded him of those MC appointments (I mean, I was SHOCKED that he said that, I had NO idea he would say that!). And he just laughed and said, "I was grasping. Forget I said that."

Good grief! Their brains just get soooo warped!

Chat at you and Homer later. I gotta get the youngest to guitar.

Hope you have a GREAT workout! I did earlier today, then a great walk in the sunshine here ~ we are going to have a VERY bad drought year if we don't get some weather soon!

Spidey

Not sure what to say, exactly.

Called WW last night, and we talked for 30 minutes or so.

To summarize...

She hasn't taken any steps towards D because... "I haven't had time."
She's (again/still) thought about talking to someone (IC), but... "I haven't had time."
The A is still not being made public at work, IOW they are keeping it under wraps as best they can.
Why, I asked, after 18 months is it still being kept a secret? "I'm not proud of what I've done."

I asked her how long she thought OM would stick around if she cut off his SF supply (I was trying to make some kind of point, as POINTless as that is...). After some thought/silence, she said "I don't know... I've thought about that."


She really hasn't changed much at all.
If she's figured anything out, she's still unable to face it/deal with it.
In talking with her, there was just this overwhelming sense of a lost person living a lie.

After the phone call, I was feeling SOO very sorry for her, scared for her, worried for her... almost feeling for the first time that when all this is over, maybe I CAN be her friend, if for no other reason than she's going to need one -- a friend -- who understands her (or at least tries) and cares about her enough to encourage her to get help.

This morning, I no longer feel I can be her friend. So that feeling, whatever it was -- probably born out of sympathy -- didn't last long...

This morning, I realized again, how much I do still love her. But that really amounts to nothing at this juncture, other than pain.

I'm wiped out.

I'm going to start guiding WW thru the D process... not much else I can do.

<small>[ February 09, 2005, 07:56 AM: Message edited by: tqt ]</small>

Have you thought much about what that would entail? Guiding her through the process? Or does it just mean you are going to find a mediator and set up an appointment? IMO, if you are going with this course of action, that would be your best avenue. Because usually mediator are also licensed counselors, and you would both meet with him/her in the same room, at the same time.

I'm sorry you didn't get anything but more pain by talking to her again. I think you should communicate business-like, through email only, from now on. To protect yourself.

Spidey

I couldn't decide whether to post this:

I'm screwed up again.


or this:

I'm still screwed up.


So I'll post both.

Said in the most eloquent way I can think of: This sucks.

tqt, I couldn't get on MB earlier, so . . . you have mail.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Thanks for the mail, Spidey.

For the sake of continuity, and for the masses of people reading this thread and chomping at the bit for what happens next... and to get an up-close-and-personal look at some very nicely formed (and well deserved) 2x4's... I will post the email here.

Hope that's ok with the author(?)

First off, you are coming undone. It is my very strong opinion, that at this point, you need to make a stand for what works for YOU. I am reading a book called "Forgive for Good" by Dr. Fred Luskin. I am about halfway through, so I haven't learned HOW to forgive for good (yet), BUT, I have learned how we form what he calls a "grievance."

Basically, we form a grievance because someone has broken an unenforceable rule that we have placed upon them. The grievance is formed from our frustration and anger that these people have broken, often repeatedly, an unenforceable rule.

Now, an unenforceable rule is NOT something that is silly, it is something that usually is important to us (ie, faithfulness, caring, loyalty, NOT leaving the M, as well as NOT having an addiction [meaning this book is not primarily an infidelity book]). However, it is a rule that might or might not also be important to the other person. When it ISN'T important to the other person, we often form a grievance.

I believe you are STUCK in the trying to enforce an unenforceable rule. Not consciously, maybe, but you seem to not be able to get over the fact that your M is not as important to your WW as it is to you (right now), that YOU are not as important to her (right now) as she is to you.

You know I'm not trying to hurt your feelings. But that is the reality. You can create RULES for YOURSELF to protect yourself from her actions, but you cannot enforce your unenforceable rules on her.

So, if you take out all the woulds/coulds/shoulds, where are YOU? What rules are you willing to place on YOURSELF, the only one you can control, to protect YOURSELF?

What would I do? What I DID was ~ limited my contact with my then-WH to ONLY business email communciations. I made EVERY effort to NOT have a personal discussion with him. I made every effort to not have to see him in person. I made every effort to focus just on ME.

I remember once, I had to drop a meal off to one of my cooking clients, at H's office. I agreed to drop it off, because H was supposed to be at his IC appointment. When I got there, his car was out front. Sure enough, he was "too busy" to go to IC that day, and had rescheduled. Well, he must have seen the UNjoy on my face. I remember him saying to me, as I was walking by his office, pointedly NOT looking in, "Gee, I thought you'd be happy to see me."

WTH??? WHY would I be happy to see him? Talk about mixed signals. He made a point to always tell me he wanted a D, didn't love me, never had, that even if he ever doubted his decision to move out he would not come back because he didn't want to give me any hope at all because he had none (whatever!), etc. Then kind-of hints that we have a relationship at all?

I don't know. I just kind-of looked at him, and carried on about my business. He sent me an email later, asking if I was mad at him! I just replied, "No."

So, instead of getting all mired down in a R talk, or enrolling in his stuff, and I'm sure being shut down, I left with and kept my peace. My calm. My brain wondered about it, I laughed about it with my girlfriends, and it was over. Did not disrupt my day. IF I had enrolled in that, if I had thought maybe he was trying to "tell me" something, or whatever ~ it would have ended in an argument, me pumping for information he just DID NOT have, and him probably telling me again that only D was possible. He probably would have wondered why I thought he was interested. They just don't realize the strange, mixed signals they give off to us BS's. They just don't! I don't know why.

So, this is my post to you, if I could have gotten on MB. Hang in there, my friend.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Hope that's ok with the author(?) </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Of course not [*edited to add, of course not I DON'T MIND! Sorry about that]! Thank you for posting it for me.

How are you doing?

<small>[ February 09, 2005, 08:45 PM: Message edited by: Spider Slayer ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">First off, you are coming undone. It is my very strong opinion, that at this point, you need to make a stand for what works for YOU. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yep...I did come undone this morning.

Here's how it went:

Yesterday I was in "Let's get this over with" mode. "Why are you saying you want a D, but nothing you DO really backs that up." "If you want a D, then DO something."

I called her thinking "What difference does it make if I call her, or WHAT I say, I just want S O M E kind of R E A L information from my WIFE of 21.5 years -- NOT the ice-cold, robotic WW alien creature that she has become -- to try to make SOME kind of sense out of our 25 years together before we end it all for good."

IOW, I've been feeling "ready" to end it, but dammit! shouldn't I get SOMETHING out of her --- like, uh... yeah, we actually DID spend 25 years together(!?!?!?)

AFTER the conversation, my #1 emotion was "Wow... I feel SOOO sorry for her."

Went to bed... got up... and... BAM! I'm back in screwed-up mode, wanting my wife back ALMOST as much as ever.

By the end of the day today, I'm back to "What kind of idiot ARE you to WANT her back??!?"


SO... I don't FEEL like I need a lobotomy.... I HOPE this is all sorta normal rollercoaster/whatever stuff... but I DID learn from this that: Plan B exists for a reason.

I jumped off the ride a week or two ago, and voluntarily jumped back on it -- and that was a stupid move.

I thought I didn't care, but found out I still do. WHY I care, well... I don't have a good answer to that.

I just got done with my first class on becoming a better support on these boards, so I'll have LOTS of pertinent info to post in the morning. But, I have been on the phone for over 2 hours, and I want to go watch TV now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Spidey