</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I'm wondering what the hell I'm supposed to do when Plan B is not working... when my WW isn't budging an inch, isn't filing for divorce, and I still love her. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">tqt, daaaawwwwwling, Plan B has nothing to do with what your WW is doing or not doing. It is for YOU to prepare YOU for either reconciliation or Plan D. Or just waiting longer, if you can.

I don't think it is a terrible idea that you want to ask her about the hole, and tell her that you will help her out, that together you two can do anything. BUT . . . and it is a BIG HUGE FAT BUUUUT . . . that conversation can ONLY happen when SHE is ready. If you initiate, I would say there is a 99.9% chance that you will get the fog babble response. IF/WHEN she is ready to have the conversation with you, SHE will contact YOU. And you will have to let her guide the convo in that direction. And that is a GREAT thing to talk about at that time.

My opinion is that that day will come. Not on your time schedule, probably on a day you have gone withOUT thinking of her at all. That is just how these things happen. My H described himself in a hole at the time of his waywardness, as well. One night when HE was telling me about how he didn't see a way he could get out, that there was no way out, that he was only surviving so he could be a provider for his kids, I told him: "H, whenever you look at the daylight at the top of your hole, you will see me standing there, with my arm outstretched, willing to help you out. AND, once out, if you choose a different path than mine (meaning Plan D), then so be it. If you choose to travel down a path together (reconcile), I welcome that chance. But no matter what, you are my best friend, and I will not leave you behind until you are on your own feet again."

That was about a month before he came home. And he pulled himself out of that hole all by himself. I was shocked. I thought he was incapable. Our entire lives together, he relied on me to help him be mentally stable. After the breakdown, I thought it was hopeless. I wanted to help him a lot, but I also wanted him to GROW UP. I wanted a M between two adults, not two half-grown people with unhealthy attachments to each other.

I am telling you, tqt, I posted much the same things as you do now. I thought my H came back just because the OW dumped him. He told me that the entire relationship just didn't work, and that her dumping him sped things up, but he had faith that eventually he'd have come to his senses and detached from her. And he went through the same "I don't want to hurt anyone else" crap.

My H went straight from his mommy to me to her, and I thought because of everything I knew of him and his history that he could not possibly ever do what it would take to come home. But, I kept my spark of hope, and I clung to the fact that I believed our M was forever. So I just waited. I let him be in charge of the communication, if there was to be any, and made the most of the times HE chose to open up to ME.

You are doing just fine. Keep the faith, stick to what you believe in, and remember that miracles happen on this site every day.

Spidey

Spidey... unfortunately... sadly... methinks you give my WW too much credit.


I've envisioned the next conversation with WW... (half reality, half satirical):


(one ringy, dingy... ... two ringy, dingy...)


Me: Hello?

WW: What are we doing about the cable bill.

Me: Hello??

WW: Cable bill what are we doing about it.

Me: Oh, hi, WW -- wasn't sure who this was! How are you?

WW: Cable bill what are we doing.

Me: So how are the dogs doing, ok?

WW: Cable bill what.

Me: How did your meeting go?

WW: Cable.

Me: Oh, are you calling about the cable bill?

WW: Huh? What about it? The reason I called is because, I uhhh... well, I seem to have gotten myself stuck down here in this uhhh... this sorta hole. Got any rope? I think about 92,000 feet should do it. There's some in the garage, isn't there? Or did I take that too, when I left?

-------

I'll be an old, old man before my WW contacts me and admits she got herself into a hole she can't get out of.
I'm certain enough about that, that it seems foolish for me to wager any more of my life on it.

You, and MB-ers in general, have taught me something very important: Patience.

All-too-recently, I've finally come to REALLY understand just how erratic this rollercoaster can be -- and I've ALMOST <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> learned how to NOT react based on my emotions, because I know my feelings will likely change in the next 2 to 200 minutes.

BUT... as the days grind on... as we PASS the One-Year-Anniversary of D-Day... more and more consistently I'm feeling it's time to put the pressure on WW to "do the right thing" and bring this to some sort of conclusion. (Yes, I could file first, but I've decided I want HER to take care of the dirty work -- she's earned it!)

I have to figure out where to draw the line... where does patience stop and denial/foolishness/INSANITY start? How many months?

This whole mess is starting to feel very unhealthy.

"Sometimes love just ain't enough."

So... I think it's just about time to play my last card, for whatever it's worth.
Exactly HOW to play it, what to say... I'm not sure.

Maybe tomorrow I'll feel differently, but I can't imagine why I would.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> more and more consistently I'm feeling it's time to put the pressure on WW to "do the right thing" and bring this to some sort of conclusion. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">tqt, it is my very humble opinion, that if you want some sort of conclusion, you only have ONE choice ~ do the dirty work yourself. You cannot rely on your WW for ANYthing right now. I have seen you do this before, wanting to "make" her make a decision. She isn't ready right now.

So, your options are to hang out in Plan B and become better/stronger/more, OR, take matters into your own hands and do the dirty work.

My thoughts are that as long as you aren't sure which of the above you should do, you should use Plan B as your default while you are still processing.

Trying to "make" or "force" your WW to do anything right now will only result in more turmoil/frustration/hurt for YOU.

Spidey

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You cannot rely on your WW for ANYthing right now. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">SURE I can... I can rely on her to make sure the cable bill is paid!
What else could a man ask for in a wife?


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have seen you do this before,</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">who, me?


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> wanting to "make" her make a decision. She isn't ready right now. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I didn't say I want to make her make a decision... I don't feel like there's any decision left to be made.

I'm still here. I still love her, and if given the chance for some miracle to happen --- I'd take it. But that has nothing to do with any kind of decision waiting to be made...

She may not be ready to sever all ties to me. But that doesn't mean she's still out there in decision-land with a decision staring her in the face. I think it's simply (as if "simple" is a fitting word for any of this...) a matter of executing the decision she's already made -- consciously or otherwise.

Maybe another way of putting it.. I haven't given up on HER... but I believe SHE has given up on US.
Why? I'll never know for sure.

I don't believe that she's still in the WS fog anymore. I know she was... big time. But at some point, the "fog" has to turn into reality, does it not? Almost five months ago she left... there's been minimal contact... today, she is NOT in any WS Fog. Somewhere along the way, if it goes on long enough (too long)... the Fog dissipates... and gives way to regular-old-human stuff... Character, Personality, Emotional Intelligence/Maturity, and Baggage.

I firmly believe that.

I can't change any of those, of course. I don't even have any influence on any of those things.

Sooner or later... one has to call a spade a spade... rational, common-sense thinking has to come into play... fairy-tale endings don't always happen... reality has to rear its oftentimes ugly head.

I'm going down with the best of 'em, in a lot of ways. I DO love happy endings. I WAS! the most romantic guy on the planet. I despise giving up. Everything I do, I do with passion and commitment.

I think I said it before... I would have walked on water for her. And maybe more importantly... if I found out I didn't know how... I would've figured it out.

I wanted nothing more than to live the rest of my life with her.

But... none of that makes any difference.... all I can do is pat myself on the back for being such "a great guy," and bid her farewell...

Plan B is just not working in this case. Does that mean there's something wrong with Plan B, or any of the MB principles? Of course not.

I'm trying my damndest... I've been trying my damndest for 380 days... to save my marriage. It's REALLY HARD for me to face the fact that just because I've given her my unconditional love... oh man... UNconditional love... it doesn't mean that she wants it... it doesn't mean that she needs it... it, in the end, doesn't necessarily mean a damn thing.

And even harder still... I'll never know for sure WHAT it meant to her. I don't even know if she knows what that means.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">will only result in more turmoil/frustration/hurt for YOU.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm in turmoil, I'm frustrated, and I'm hurt over the fact that you, Spidey, and others here, are such wonderful, brilliant, caring people, and I'm wasting your precious time and thought and wisdom on me and my marriage, which for the life of me, appears to be hopeless.

BTW, in case you didn't get it, that was a compliment <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Do I have to explain everything? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Well, you DID say that you were going to FORCE her to "do the right thing." You cannot. I hold firm on that. If you expect her to do ANYthing at this point, other than quibble about the cable bill, you are wasting your time, IMO.

So, that brings us back to the two options you have control over: 1)Go file Plan D yourself, or 2)Hang out in Plan B until you are SURE you want to do #1.

And I will say again that Plan B COULD work for you, if you would let it. Plan B is NOT about ending the A, bringing your WW home, or anything like that. It is about YOU preparing for whatever you need to prepare for, in the MEANTIME of your WW doing her own thing.

If you want to find out how serious your WW is about a D, set up an apppointment with a mediator. Hear what she has to say at that time. Perhaps she is one of those people who will wait until the day the papers are supposed to be signed before she'll realize what she's about to lose. Perhaps she HAS made her decision to leave the M, and just "hasn't had time" to do anything about it. We just don't know. We can conjecture, but we cannot get into her head and KNOW.

What do YOU want? That you can control? Do you want to technically remain married, but begin to detach from her in preparation for the day she "finds time" to finalize her decision (that she may or may not have already made) ~ in other words, Plan B?

Are you tired of hanging out in the "netherworld" of being neither here nor there, and want to start the D process, since you DO have the time?

OR, are you afraid of starting the process, because you think she will go along with it, even if there is a chance that she might have come back eventually if you had just waited longer?

Please know that I have no judgement on your for anything you choose to do (or not do) in this process. You are at one of the most difficult times of your life, and I am just trying to help you keep your feelings straightened out enough to get through it as best you can. If something sounds like a dig or a judgement, hopefully it is just my poor lack of communication with this 2-dimentional interface we have on these boards.

I think you are doing great. I know you love your WW. But it is time for you to NOT be in so much pain each day. It is time for you to begin your personal healing. Then, you will be prepared to deal with Plan D (and begin processing your "baggage" so you don't take that into your next relationship), or reconcilliation.

If you continue on this same path, IMO, you will be worn down to a little nub by the time it comes to resolution, either way, and you won't be able to do what you want to do with your life at that time.

And, none of us is "wasting" our time here with you. EVEN IF your M is over, YOU NEED personal healing. That is what MB is all about, IMO. Personal healing, so you can do what needs to be done in your life, whatever you decide that has to be.

Spidey

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Are you tired of hanging out in the "netherworld" of being neither here nor there</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes.

All I'm asking for (from WW) is one crumb of honesty. It amazes me that I find myself in a place where that is so damn elusive. After all those years...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">are you afraid of starting the process, because you think she will go along with it, even if there is a chance that she might have come back eventually if you had just waited longer? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'll admit... Yes.
In between times of intense frustration and growing resentment.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It is time for you to begin your personal healing.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Maybe there's something wrong with my thought process, or... ?

I know I've begun the healing process, but I'm having trouble continuing it (healing) in the "netherworld."

Maintaining hope for my M, and planning Life #2 without her, seem to be mutually exclusive endeavors...
maybe it's very simple... maybe it's just the few huge decisions I have to make, which I can NOT make without knowing the outcome of this.

And I haven't figured out exactly HOW this fits in to my day-to-day thought process, but I know it does: my needs... none of my needs... have been met in a long, long time. NOT good for the soul... unless you're a monk...


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> you will be worn down to a little nub by the time it comes to resolution, either way, and you won't be able to do what you want to do with your life at that time.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think that's what I meant when I said this whole mess feels very unhealthy to me... for me.

ps....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are at one of the most difficult times of your life, and I am just trying to help you keep your feelings straightened out enough to get through it as best you can.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And you're really helping... immensely. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

The rest of my Support Staff has crossed over that line... they still support ME, but think I'm an idiot for not filing for D myself. They're terrified to think I still might want her back...

I'll give it a little more time... and try to look at things from a slightly different angle. See if I can get a couple of these decisions made while still in the netherworld.

I suppose there's a reasonable chance she may contact me this weekend. It's been a while, and it's also OB's weekend with his son, I think. Right now I'm thinking if she does call, I'll respond a la Plan B, and tell her (again) I don't want to talk to her until A is over, etc...

Maybe that'll get her to say something useful about her intentions.

tqt, have you read thefurnitureman's thread about 1-year post d-day? Here is the link.

tfm's thread

Perhaps you could post some questions/thoughts to them over there. There's lots of men posting, both that have and have not recovered their M's.

Tell me what you think.

Spidey

Spidey <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Not to worry...I'm alive and well.

Processing... thinking... processing...

and thinking.

Ya know, it's my nature -- probably everyone's -- to try to deduce very complicated things down to something(s) simple... understandable... small enough chunks to get a grasp on.

In trying... maybe allowing myself... to think about things differently, from different angles... entirely different thought processes...

one thing that just became clear to me is... that I don't know the "right" answer to the question:

do I listen to my heart, or do I listen to the more rational, logical, "common-sense" parts of me?

I'm not trying to be profound by any stretch of the imagination... but the more I think about it, the more I realize that I just don't know the answer to that question.

I've never done this before......

Does any of that make sense?

That makes PERFECT sense to me. I think you managed to sum up the "conflict" I have sensed in you for a while now.

As I am not logically driven, I did follow my heart. Every once in a while my logic would come in, but it just doesn't have much staying power in my life.

My H IS logic-driven, and I was certain during our ordeal, that if the roles were reversed, he would have waited for me to come back home. Or, he would have let me go if I had D'd him. But I could see my H as a long-term Plan A/Ber, willing to wait until I had made a final decision one way or the other.

I want to THINK that I could have waited a year or more, but I'm not sure. My ego is much bigger than H's, and I think hanging out in limbo that long might have been more than I could do. BUT, I didn't think I could do most of the stuff I have done in the past year, so, who the heck knows.

I think that's why I was thinking it might be useful for you to talk to other MEN (logic-driven), that have dealt with their W's long-term A's. Some are still together, still recoverying (2long, WOE), and some have gone with Plan D, and had to file themselves.

Maybe ask them how they deciphered between heart and logic.

Also, I am so excited to hear that you are thinking about all this in different ways. I really think that is a HUGE step in the right direction. When/if you feel ready, please share these thoughts with us. You really could inspire a LOT of struggling BS's here.

Keep up the FANTASTIC thinking!!!

Spidey

tqt! I just read a sig line, and YOUR quote about Plan B was in there! You know CarenMc? She quoted you! Isn't that neat-o? Probably from that time I told you I plagerized you on another thread. But I did confess!

It will all be part of our finished book. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hope you are hanging in there.

Spidey

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She quoted you! Isn't that neat-o? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"So do you want a medal, or a chest to pin it on?"

(one of my favorite movie lines from ? a million years ago <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )

Spidey... did you say... neat-o ??

You DID! You DID say neat-o !!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

...and while we're OT...

don't you think

Infidelity

is a really cool name for a boat??

Can't ya just see it??

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Infidelity

is a really cool name for a boat??
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">THAT made me laugh out loud. I don't know, do you think you'd pick up many chicks with that name? They might not understand at first, just which side of that you were/are on. Know what I mean?

Yes, I did say NEAT-O! What's wrong with that??? AND, I just read her thread again, about being mad and stuff, and another poster said that her byline has inspired HIM, and has had him thinking in different directions, also! Isn't that even MORE neat-o???

You are an inspiration to many. Doesn't that feel wierd, when people tell you that, and you just feel like you are normal, just trying to get along as best you can?

That's how it happnes . . . just kinda sneaks up on ya! Maybe you could use "code speak" for your boat ~ like . . . "The Rollercoaster," or, "The Fog." OR, you could make it known exactly WHICH side of the issue you are on, and use our motto: "Infidelity SUCKS!"

That'd turn some heads! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Spidey

Oh... OK... Now the OTHER side of my brain kicks in... YOUR fault...

I just decided to change my boat-of-choice to one of those "muscle boats" -- well, you're from Idaho (or is it Idah-o... sorta like Neat-o?) so this might go WAY over your head <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> --- ANYway... one of those 45-foot 9000 horsepower, 500 decibel Miami Vice deals... ok... PICTURE this on the transom of THAT boat...

Spider Slayer

Ohhhhh Mannnnn!!!!! Just HOW many women can ONE GUY HANDLE?!? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

And imagine the gas bill?!?! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />


Back to the other side-o'-the-brain:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are an inspiration to many.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don't even THINK about going there...
Inspiration to many? No.
Keeping TRULY inspirational people like You EXTRA-EXTRA busy? Yes. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

It just so happens that we have several large reservoirs here in Idaho, so I have some experience with boats. And my friend in Virginia used to have a 35 footer, or something HUGE (to me, anyway). They kept it docked in Chesapeake Bay (ever heard of that one? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ).

Our friend here has, I think, a small version of a "muscle boat." It is bright red, with sparkles in the paint, white leather on the inside (with bucket seats, of course), and it is called the ASSault. My boys think the name is hysterical ~ they can kinda say "[censored]" and it makes them giggle.

He took this boat to Scout camp last year, so the boys could get their waterskiing merit badge. He had the entire lake community in northern Idaho up in arms regarding the way he drives the ASSault. It was pretty funny. This one old man actually drove down to the docks and got into it with him ~ luckily a camp admin person was there, or I think it could have come to blows. The old man told our friend that he has taught kids to waterski for years, and our friend was doing it all wrong. Our friend told the man that he could use his boat and teach the kids if he thought he could do better.

Then the old man launched into this long story about how he's lost his foot, in a war or diabetes, not sure which, and he couldn't drive boats anymore, since he just had a stump at the bottom of his ankle.

I cannot tell you how many funny stories all us adults have from that trip. We were all joking about it on our last campout, and several of us were laughing so hard we had to wipe tears from our cheeks. *sigh*

Anyway, I rode in this boat. It feels like you will tip, or fly out, but I guess it's kinda like a sports car, low to the ground, low center of gravity, or something.

Yeah, if you want to be a chick magnet, you should indicate that you can slay something larger/more fearsome than a spider. Somebody thought I was a man once, and I said, "If I was a guy, would I "brag" that I can kill a spider? Wouldn't it be a dragon, or something?"

Well, have a great day. I gotta go find some stuff to do to keep me out of trouble.

Spidey

Spidey, I HOPE you don't think I was taking a shot at Idaho!! (Trust me, a guy from S.E. Pennsylvania is not about to do that! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )
I KNOW Idaho is a VERY beautiful state. WW and I lived in CA for a couple years, and did some traveling out "around the West", but never made as far North as Idaho.

I'm going to CA next week (business) for the first time since we moved back East -- a lotta years ago.

I just want to get this comment in for right now... and SPEAKING of geography...

Today, and most of the weekend, I was ALL OVER the MAP, emotionally. Really weird. Some LOW lows -- lower than I would've expected.

Haven't heard from her, obviously... and I'm wondering... WHAT is she DOING? She doesn't appear to need any kind of connection with me anymore, so... I should probably take that to heart, so to speak.

Not looking good in the Save-My-Marriage department...........

Hope you had a great weekend! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I HOPE you don't think I was taking a shot at Idaho!! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Heck no! BUT, I do realize that we are land-locked, so . . . we aren't really known for our boats, or boaters, or boating. Unless it is a little one, with a trolling engine, for fishing in our big lakes/reservoirs. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I encourage you to NOT come to Idaho, because you will probably feel compelled to uproot yourself and move here, it is THAT beautiful. So, just stay away, unless you want your life to be changed forever. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Well, our new entertainment center finally ALL got here, and it is now set up with H's new TV. It all looks GREAT! I can't believe it has all finally come together. Today we just need to hang up a few more paintings, and we are done! How exciting. Each time I walk in the living room, it is a surprise. I don't remember the last time we bought something new. Usually it's hand-me-downs from my aunt and uncle, when they get new stuff. So, it's new to US, but I've looked at it for YEARS at their place!

Anyway, H has President's Day off (so do the kids), and we are going to spend this day doing a BIG FAT NOTHING. Woo-hoo!!!

Chat at you later.

Spidey

Hell I think you should name your boat "The Other Woman". Tongue in cheek no doubt.

It is funny when I read Spydie's posts to you they are as if she is addressing me. You are like me in that we have always been so put together that we an't stand this indecisive, don't know which way is up crap that we have been dealing with. Spidey says to take the focus off the WS and all we do is think "When are they going to do this", "When are they going to make a move".....Guess what....We are trying to get them to do something that we want ....we are still trying to control them without really knowing thats what we are doing. I am really starting to realize my problem. I am reading the book "How to live with a passiveaggressive man". It is so true to my life, in it they talk about the different type of women. I am a "Manager", always wanting things to be done a certain way...they say that PA's don't repsond to us because we don't want to hear "No". so rather than telling us something we won't except...they say nothing at all. I can see that my spouse probably feels this from me. Kind of like "You want the truth....you couldn't handle the truth".

I have been telling him that I take responsibility for my half of the problems, all the while waiting for him to own up to his. Again putting the focus back on him. WOW this is truely a light bulb moment for me and I have to thank Spyder for it.

OH man TQT.....we need to let go of them but not the marriage or the hope. I think I get it but not sure I can implement it. That is where the help, encouragement and resources at MB come in.