WTH?? I disappear for a few hours, and next thing I know, Spidey won $220 million, and we're having a party in the Caribbean?

I LOVE this place!

Spidey, I prefer an aisle seat, please.

Homer... NO GOLF down there... promise!

WHILE we ARE making arrangements for A Big Huge Sorely Needed Party...

Spidey, I'm SO sorry things didn't go better today.
I was thinking... if the staff is so supportive... what about a hearing? Wouldn't it be obvious -- to a reasonable person -- that your mom should stay where she is? Do you feel the ombudsman did her job, and if not, do you have any recourse? Who's next up on the ladder? Your mom is being displaced for no apparent legitimate reason, isn't that right?

IOW, could ruffling a few feathers somewhere now -- potentially save you lots of heartache down the road, and keep your mom in the best place for her?

I know... easy to say, easy to speculate... AND, I'm out of my element here. I'm sorry if I'm out in left field...

Homer, if you dug up an article on "Men & Depression" and left it sitting around... would your H pick it up and read it? Or is Depression something you/he have already ruled out?

We have to get all this stuff resolved BEFORE the party... ok?

When my WH got teary at the last counseling session he looked at the counselor and said "this is when BS brings up anti depressants". I do not want him to numb himself down, and I told him I wanted him to be open and share these things with me. My concern was his sleeping and his mood swings.
He says he isn't depressed and he doesn't need meds.

Personally he thinks there is NOTHING wrong with himself.
He is perfect and any bad feelings he has...I create them.
Yeah by telling him I love him, I want him home, by intiating SF even when I know it means nothing to him anymore, by allowing myself to be a doormat...I am making him be someone he is not. Perhaps expecting integrity makes him feel bad about his decisions. Oh...my mistake.

We do think we would win another hearing, as they have poor documentation, and even less of a "case" than they did last time. The ombudsman definately did her job, she is a very nice lady. She just isn't as aggressive and knowledgable as the PREvious ombudsman. Poor woman has LARGE shoes to fill. But she is full of compassion and support ~ my aunt and I just already know the ropes pretty darn good, thanks to the nursing home educating us 5 years ago, so she just didn't have much to add, besides smiling and nodding and telling us we had good ideas.

We are ruffling feathers, all right, simply because we aren't jumping at their suggestion to move her! They just are not used to people knowing their rights. They are used to saying, "Sorry, but your loved one is having unacceptable behaviors, he/she has to go to this other facility," and the people tearfully signing their loved one's stability and home away. They just don't know a lot of the what nursing home's responsibility is, and when they aren't called on it, they can get away with it.

Anyway, I think we have a good handle on that situation, anyway. Last night me and H, my aunt and uncle got together, and researched the medication she is on. We also got really good imput on what other drugs might be better for her. For instance, my mother has been on Xanex since at least 1998! That is a drug that should not be used for long periods of time because it 1)is addictive (with physical withdrawal symptoms when it is tapered off), and 2)loses its effectiveness after long periods of time. Good grief! So we have a drug to suggest in its place for her anxiety.

The big thing is to get all these meetings recorded and initialled by everyone at them from now on. We didn't do that last time, so our butt's are kinda flapping out right now, but we'll take care of that.

So, I am pretty much back to regular about this whole thing. I'm ready for the party in the Carribean.

What's going on with you, tqt? Haven't heard from you in a while. Thanks for your support on my other thread. I always appreciate it.

Spidey

ps, I did my 7 miler yesterday in . . . get this . . . only 9 minutes longer than last week's 6 miler! I made up some time somewhere. I had to do the math over and over again. 1 hour and 23 minutes. My H and I figured that was about 11:50 minute miles (like, 11 minutes and 50 seconds, not 11 1/2). YAY!

OK, Homer, listen to me carefully. I did this EXACT same thing to my FWH in counseling, and it held us up for a long time. Luckily, we had a MC who didn't let me get away with it, and called me on it. AND, even though I didn't understand what I was doing for months afterwards, I listened to the MC and stopped doing it out loud (even though until I "got it," I still did it in my head ~ old habits die hard).


Let your WH deal with his med needs, on his own, with his own doc if that is what he wants to do. If he DOESN'T think he needs meds, that is HIS CHOICE. YOU need to respect his choice about himself. He is an adult. I know you can think of thousands of reasons why he shouldn't consider himself an adult, because of his poor behavior, but he IS an adult.


Even if there is something wrong with him, Homer, this is NOT where your M issues lie. True, he should be his 100% best to be in the M, because the stronger both individuals are, the stronger the M. BUT . . . he is only 1/2 of a system that is NOT functioning.

So, focus OFF your WH's behavior, meds, lack of meds, maturity level, etc. Focus ON both of you, how you choose to interact, how BOTH of you are contributing to the crisis your M is in. Because for all the people telling you not to mother your H, you continue to do it. You do continue to attempt to control him. I think THAT is the reason this uninterested OW has kept his attention for so long ~ because he knows you don't like it, don't approve. He is like the child looking at his mother, and defiantly sticking his thumb into her fresh pie (that she specifically told him to stay out of!).


This is NOT showing him how much you love him. This, IMO, is you showing him what you are willing to contort yourself into, just to get him back. Your choice to be a doormat IS your mistake, Homer. If you cannot even erect and defend boundaries with him, with all the knowledge and guidance you receieve here, how in the world do you expect him to do the same? Actions speak louder than words, for the BS and the WS. If you expect your WH to do the things you expect him to do, YOU must be willing to do them first.

Focus off your WH, on to your M ~ which consists of BOTH of you. Start by admitting YOUR contribution to the crisis in MC, and what you intend to change to make it better. That is all you can control, all you can change.

Learn from my lessons, Homer. It sounds frightening to let go, but it is LIBERATING.

Spidey

Spidey,
I've disappeared (sort of) because you have more important things to do. But I just wanted to check in to say...

a) I'm glad things are looking a little better with your mom.
"So, I am pretty much back to regular about this whole thing."

"regular" is hard enough, I'm sure.

b) "I'm ready for the party in the Carribean."
So am I. Oh man.... so am I............

c) "What's going on with you, tqt? Haven't heard from you in a while."
I DO feel a need to shed some weight here....
I've been keeping my head above water. Or maybe just one nostril. No details necessary, but if I can't be honest here, I can't be honest anywhere, right? I sunk (sank?) pretty low over the last week... I guess I gave myself another ticket to my own personal HELL over all this. Hard to explain in 10,000 words or less.

But I'm climbing back out again, I think... and what JUST helped a LOT was talking to my STBXW a few minutes ago........ it's been a while since I've heard her voice. And I'm RIGHT in the middle of (sorry for my a/b/c lists!!, but...)

a) feeling sorry for her
b) wondering who/what the last 24 years were ???
c) thankful(?) that it wasn't 30 years
d) still loving her, in whatever way that works... after all this...

IOW, and I'm really trying... but absolutely nothing has changed on her end of things... the same non-answers and nonsense interspersed with tears.

(She's done nothing with the Separation Agreement, let alone the D process.)

I THINK at one point she was waiting for me to say something like "No, I don't want a divorce. I want you to come home. I want someone to show me a way out of this mess."

I really do. And I'm not delusional -- not this far into into it.

I'm 100% convinced of one thing... IF she wanted to "come home"... she could not say it.

Bottom line for now, I guess, is that she's still lost, and I'm still lost without her.

And infidelity still sucks.

I THINK at one point she was waiting for me to say something like "No, I don't want a divorce. I want you to come home. I want someone to show me a way out of this mess."


Tqt....I am sure she was, and then after you say it she would rip out your heart again and spit on it. She would be back in control. I see it in my WH....he softens and I respond, then he bites and retreats. Makes me think I am losing my mind, come to think of it, I am sure that I am.
They don't understand the time we spend on damage control.
But for you, at least you didn't allow yourself to be sucked in.

Sorry to hear that you had a rough weekend. I sure wish someone could find that switch so we could turn it off.
She will sit on those papers as long as you let her. She might be unhappy, but she is not in the same type of pain you are in, so for her there is no real hurry.

Like my WH...each time I find the strength and say NO MAS, he gets defensive and angry. I used to think it was because he really didn't want the D and just couldn't say it. Like you said about your WW. But what I really think it is, is that the control slips back into my hands and he can't take that. Yet when he has all of the control...he refuses to take action. And he says that I lack initiative....hhmmm

You can let her have the control as long as you can stand the pain. I think you are like me, in that if we meet someone that treats us with respect and compassion....we will no longer need that "fix" we get from the WS and we will take the bull by the horns and be done with this crap.

The longer I wait for WH to decide, the closer I get to not really wanting him back. When I sit back and think of all the things he has said and done, all the lying.....he is not the man I thought and I will never be able to think of him in the same manner.

So TQT.....do you really want her back? Will your life be happy if she came home. Would you be able to love her the same way?

Oh, fiddle faddle! And all of that. I have MISSED you! I come each day, looking for a NEW sign next to our (er, YOUR) thread, and my heart sinks each day there is none.

You are not a bother, nor a burden to me. You are my friend, and I miss you. Please come and tell me all your whiny drivel (J/K! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />), because I don't mind listening!

Everything seems to be going great with my mother. We got her a new TV today with a DVD/VCR in it, and we are getting her lots of John Wayne movies. We are getting ready to adjust her meds with the help of a Neurophsiciatrist, and the NH says she has had a great week. All-in-all, this might have just served as a "wake-up" call to be more involved ~ like we used to be. It is so funny how some things just get kicked to the curb when life happens, and you don't appreciate them until you think you could lose them!

Anyway, please post to me more. I am not such a "delicate flower" as all of that, you know. I am made of steel, not chintsy aluminum! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Spidey

Sorry... I've been busy haggling over the details for our party.

The band not only refuses to play for 52 hours straight (something about the humidity... they said the heat isn't the problem), but they INSIST on playing "Feelings" -- every hour. After hearing (just in my head, of course) a steel band playing "Feelings," I then had to go BACK to the caterer and triple the rum order.

And what exactly have you guys accomplished?? A party in the Caribbean doesn't just happen on its own, ya know... show some initiative, would ya?!?

More details soon, but IN the meantime...

Homer... thinking about you, worrying about you, and hoping you're ok ("ok" is so lame, I know).
Thank you for caring. And thank you for asking me some very good questions... which I'm still thinking about. Pretty much constantly.

Spidey, Spidey, Spidey....
thanks for the nice words. I've missed you too!
Reading about your mom, and how you feel so much better about things, brought a BIG smile to my face. (honest)
And... I promise there's LOTS more whiny drivel on the way... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Oh, and... this is pretty cool... I've racked my brain, and I'm positive you're the first person I've ever met who's made of steel AND says "fiddle faddle." <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Gotta go... and force myself to call my STBXWWWWWWW..... it ain't easy...

Well, did ya do it? And was it easy? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> What is the purpose of the call? More MD stuff? FUN! With all the fun and excitement you have going over there, I'm surprised you want to "get away from it all" and come party with us girls in the Carribean! BUT, sometimes people do the darnedest things ~ isn't that what we have all learned here?

OK, I woke up this morning with a fierce determination to get serious about my marathon training. Translation outside of my head is ~ begin my pilates, get in 1 to 2 sessions of upper body weight lifting (my arms get tired after running for 1.5 hours!) a week, and start streamlining my food intake. Net result(s) I'm hoping for = "easier" running, less chance of injuries (so far so good!), and ~ of course with most women ~ lose this pesky 10 pounds that came back on since my infidelity diet has been over, by my birthday which is July 11. 10 pounds in a month and a day. I dunno. I would settle for 5! But I'm shooting for 10. AND better fitness.

My coach said we are getting into the "meat and potatoes" of the season now. If I am going to step up my commitment to the program, now seems to be the absolute latest I should possibly wait to do so ~ which is right in character for me.

Unlike Mr. tqt, diligently MDing all long holiday weekend long, just to get it done. I suppose all I need is to look to your example to give myself the wherewithall to FOCUS. Did I mention I think I have adult ADD, and I'm not kidding? I think that is why I like having so many different "odd jobs." I'm just waiting for one of my older clients to ask me to help them paint their house, then I will know I have arrived at official "odd job" status.

So, does anyone have any plans for this weekend? I run 8 miles tomorrow ~ that's all I have planned! Today I am doing some cross-training, and a pilates class ~ if my attention span lasts that long. Yesterday the boys had a sleepover, then I took the gaggle of them with me to finish one meal at a cooking job, and to the waterpark. It was fun . . . a little cold, but I just worked on my tan, so the weather was PERFECT for me.

OK, Carribean planning. Well, you've got the band taken care of, so that ensures lots of dancing. I guess I will have to talk to the caterer, then (and we will assume that the caterer is doing the food AND the liquer, er, drinks). OK, we have access to plenty of fresh marine life, so the menu will have lots of the local specialties (I don't get out much, so I don't know what the "local specialties in the Carribean are), with LOTS of fresh fruits and veggies. BECAUSE, we don't want to fill up on heavy stuff, and risk getting drowsy or, worse, too full to drink more alcohol. Now, for the important part. The alcohol will include several types of bottled beer, we can decide on the specifics later (I have to drink the lighter, more American stuff lately, because I am getting old and the fancy stuff tears me up! Too much information?). But lots and lots of specialty drinks. I don't care what kind, but some MUST be served in hollowed-out pinapples and ALL of them MUST have little umbrellas. Not swords, or toothpicks, or anything else ~ UMBRELLAS!!! And we want the really PRIMO liquer, so that we don't feel as hungover the next morning, before we start the whole process over again.

OK, Homer, what are you going to take care of? I hope someone considers our lodging, so we aren't forced to sleep in tents on the beach ~ which doesn't sound that bad, but where do us girls go in the middle of the night? A port-a-potty is NOT that, well, Carribean, now is it??? I do enough "roughing it" each month with the Scouts, thankyouverymuch. I would enjoy a bidet in my room ~ I don't know if I would use it (well, OK, at least once, just to experience it), but I would want one.

Spidey, who is feeling strangely, just, HAPPY today!

I wimped out on the phone call two nights ago... did NOT wimp out last night, but she had the phone off the hook and cell phone fwd'd to voicemail. (either that or she was talking on both phones all evening...)

The purpose was to find out where things are with the Separation Agreement (S/A)...

HA!

So, unless I'm missing something... I'm too much of a threat of some kind, or a bother of some kind, so she has to take the phone off the hook. (Not sure why she can't talk to me in front of the OB... that to me is very strange... seems like she's trying to hide SOMEthing from EVERYone in her life.)

AND, as much of a bother as I am, she refuses to get rid of me -- and END the MADNESS of it all.

Looks like I'm left to clean up the mess, and finish off what she started (destroying our M), and I now feel ok with doing that. I don't appreciate having to do it, but emotionally, etc.... I'm ready. I've given her nearly a year and a half to figure something out, and I see no signs of it.
Anniversary #21 (last August) was spent in the midst of, unbeknownst to me at the time, continued lies and betrayal.
Now anniversary #22 is looming out there... I would've hoped that after all this time, she could cough up some kind of Truth, or Reality, or... something(??)

I've been thinking that, after having forgiven her for the EA/PA (which she apparently didn't need/want anyway)... what she's done SINCE then has pretty much made a farce... a joke... out of our entire 24 years together. I will not be able to forgive her for that.


Anyway........

Spidey.... I was thinking... do you do windows, by any chance?


Are you accounting for the increase in muscle mass? Sheeesh, woman... ya CAN'T go by the scales alone. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

And speaking of weight gain... about that party...

Do you think it's ok that we picked the band and caterer BEFORE deciding what ISLAND we're partying on? I'm just worrying about the beer getting warm.

YIKES! Are you sure you're from Idaho?


Uhhh... you want an umbrella with that?

The irony of it all...

I've spent the last 16 months trying to save my M.

Now I'm ready to End It.

This is ridiculous. No... it's not ridiculous. It's downright WEIRD, and... somewhat NOT conducive to a productive, rewarding life...


The high-level timeline:

Me: Try my damndest to save my M.
Her: Do nothing but lie (at best!)

Then...

Me: Figure out it's not going to be saved. Ask her to "finish it off." It's what she says she's wanted since 1915, or thereabouts, so it should be a no-brainer, right?
Her: Nothing.

Then...

Me: Figure out she's not going to end it herself. Why? I have no idea. She won't tell me.
Her: Nothing.

Then...

Me: Take steps to try to salvage the rest of my life, and - in a congenial, respectful, thoughtful way -- try to End It myself.
Her: Nothing. Except make it another (new, and different!) nightmare.

I'm beginning to understand when "they" say... "I don't trust people anymore."
I could NEVER understand that... before...

Okay, did you forget to post the rest of your story??? What did she do now?

I remember the horror once of when I told a girlfriend laughingly on the phone: "Well, at least it can't get any worse." Because wouldn't you know it, the next "MC" session we went to, my FWWH started telling the lady how bad he felt because he would be taking the house and kids away from me, and leaving me living in an apartment somewhere with no kids ~ and he knew it would hurt me, crush me really, but that that is "just the way it had all worked out."

I just sat there staring at him with my mouth open, agast. Or aghast, however it is spelled, that is how I was. HE was going to take MY home, and MY kids??? After leaving us? I do not think so. But just his statement, indicated that it could come to a "fight," and up until then he had been all about letting me and the boys have whatever we wanted, because he was not a fit human being. The OW-little birdie was obviously talking in his ear about all of THAT, because she'd been through a D, you know, and she KNEW how he had to act so that I wouldn't get ANYthing. And, being her FBF, I know how she knows, because she TOOK everything from her ex-H, literally drove over in the middle of the night and STOLE it!

Anyway, she could be getting outside counsel about all this stuff, if you know what I mean, from someone who has been there and done that (OB). She might not want to do any of it, and might back down if you show some resistance ~ especially if it is truly crazy.

So end my suspense! What has happened now?

Spidey

ps, I did my 8 miler yesterday, and it was brutal. It took me 11 minutes longer than the 7 miler, so my overall time did improve some, but not a whole lot. Total time was 1 hour 34 minutes ~ and a very sore knee. I DID start up my cross-training and pilates on Friday (cross-training bad so close to long run, pilates good), and I have a tender knee to show for it. I also didn't eat very well on Friday, and drank 3 light beers. BUT, my H got me a wonderful new bike. Go look it up on the internet somewhere. It is made by Electra, and it is the blue Townie 21 women's model. With a white seat, white handlebar grips, and soon to have white fenders and a white leather bag that fits on the frame (they were out of the latter two items, and have ordered them). I can sit up straight on the bike, put my feet flat on the ground when I am stopped, and still get a full range of motion with my legs when pedaling. I couldn't stop riding with a HUGE smile on my face yesterday. I asked my H if I looked goofy, and he said no, I looked cute. What a guy. We rode for about 2 hours, all around, which didn't help my knee any, either. Oh well. I can't wait to ride it places today!

Spidey... WAY COOL!
And it was nice of your H to put your picture on the internet, too!

http://www.electrabike.com/04/images/news/np13_2_md.jpg

Whoa! You DO ride in style, don't ya... and I agree, you do NOT look goofy.
In fact, on the Goofiness Scale... you hit a solid ZERO!

Do you run in those shoes, too?

Nice bike... I followed your orders, and did some quick research. Very good concept (to which you have attested), and there are lots of good reviews out there. Congratulations! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

So, what did you do to your knee? Was it a particular exercise? What does your cross-training consist of? Not sure if you're using machines, or what, but don't do these, 'cuz they can kill ya:
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Quadriceps/LVLegExtension.html

I'm constantly paranoid (ok, that's too strong a word) about doing something stupid (not suggesting you were!) in the gym, because it only takes ONE "little" injury to bring everything (training) to a screeching halt -- and losing weeks and weeks of progress. AS a matter of fact, I'm sorta nursing a shoulder problem these days (from being careless/stupid!) and it's very aggravating -- not the pain, but having to baby it in the gym, avoid certain exercises/machines, etc... enough babble...

ANYWAY... was going to ask you about your run yesterday... gee, Spidey, with a sore knee, etc. etc. you only improved a LITTLE?!? What's up with that?! Two thoughts... maybe three...
1) It could be those shoes
2) You're going to plateau every so often, and have not-as-good days smattered all over the place -- you know those things, so I'm wasting ink here.
3) You may not be drinking enough beer.

EIGHT miles.... just how long ago was it that you were worrying about FOUR miles? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Oh yeah... you mean this ain't one o' them chat room thingies? Did someone say somthing about Marriage Building, er... ?

The "new nightmare" I was referring to... really nothing specific has happened (at least not worthy of mentioning). It just feels like I'm in a new "situation" -- for all intents and purposes, she refuses to move forward with the D. She doesn't SAY anything about NOT ending it... more like she just reacts to my not-so-gentle nudging to get this over with -- but then DOES nothing.

I guess she's still paralyzed, for SOME reason. She doesn't say she DOES want a D, and she doesn't say she does NOT want a D. She doesn't offer any other solutions. But at the same time, she does NOT seem happy at ALL.

She's avoiding my phone calls, but I did reach her last night, just before 10:00.
She was "sleeping on the couch." IOW, must be OB's weekend with his son. She sounded depressed, empty, not sure exactly.... I'm not pleased with myself, because I wasn't all that friendly with her. No yelling/anger/etc, but just not very friendly -- I have a very hard time being "nice" to her at this point... it's weird...
ANYWAY, I feel bad, because it wasn't until further into the conversation that I began to realize just how lost and down and... EMPTY she sounded. (I constantly struggle with this -- SHOULD I care? I DO care, but SHOULD I?) So later in the conversation, I asked her if she had a chance to talk with someone (I HATE asking that, but no one else seems to care about her well-being... and she obviously has NEEDED to talk to someone (IC))
Every time I've asked her that in the past, she's said "I've thought about it."
THIS time, I didn't even get the whole question out of my mouth when she snapped back: "THAT'S NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!" I suppose that might mean "yes."

I MUST stop rambling here...

My point, I guess, is that I sense (as we know, I have to "sense" everything... surmise everything... because she volunteers NOTHING) that she's figured some things out... she's probably pretty close to hitting bottom... and I not only feel very worried about her (which I told her, for better or worse), but this morning I felt GUILTY for... not SURE what for... like I should be telling her we can still work all this out and rebuild our marriage... and help her get out of this deep, dark, miserable hole she's in...

That's my new nightmare.

Speaking of nightmares... for the last three nights, I've awakened in the morning on HER side of the bed! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> WTH? I NEVER did that before...

Pffft! As if!! I would NEVER wear those pants! Good grief. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />


Have you ever heard of the IT band thingie? Apparently, it is a pretty common soreness in runners. It calls for RICE ~ rest, ice, compression, elevation. For me, it is from over-use. See, the day before my 8-miler, I decided it would be a "good" idea to take the hardest step class at my gym. Lots of jumping, side-to-side movement, and propelling ourselves over the long end of the bench. It was very bad timing on my part. And now, with the bike riding added in (because I cannot stay off the thing! I love it), it's pretty tender.

It is only on my right leg, and it does stem from my old ankle injury. My ankle does not always get its full range of motion, and on days that it doesn't, other things in my leg compensate for it, ergo a sore knee. But my other right leg problems have gone away, like the shin splints, and the ache from the middle of the knee-cap down around the back of my calf. I am down to one soreness now! Woo-hoo!

I need to make a PT appointment, so the guy can work my ankle into full range of motion again. It will be very cool, because for years my ankle has pinched when I bend it too far forward. He just needs to train it to sit back in the right place. I haven't had time, with my Mom thing right now, but it is on my list of things to do ~ promise.


You are not wasting ink, I need to be reminded of that. In fact, I did not feel good before running Saturday morning, with my allergies, and not good food eating, and I was tired. But I realized that there are going to be days that I DON'T feel 100%, and my body will still perform, it just won't be the greatest performance. And that is OK. Like my favorite tennis sport, sometimes they get out on the court, and they are missing their shots, and something hurts, and I always admire the ones that find a way to win, to play their best, even when they have some stuff going against them. I think that is when you see what people are "made of." So, all-in-all, I was proud of how my body and mind held up for me Saturday.


I think this is the battle you wage within yourself, tqt. I have said before that she is being very cruel to you, in the way that she KNOWS your nature, better than anyone else, I'd guess. And for her to put you in the position of ending it, with no encouragement/input from her, is very uncaring of her to do. She is so wrapped up in her own self right now, she cannot see your pain ~ even after all this time. Even though she truly is NOT that foggy anymore.

She has put you in a position of needing to choose out of the limbo she has placed you in, for your own sanity ~ literally. Yet she also knows you are a very caring, loving man who would never leave anyone in "the lurch," least of all her! And, frankly, I wonder if she uses this knowledge of your nature against you ~ well, not against YOU, but for HER. Does that make sense?

So you call, and you are a bit distant, because, well, she has moved out and chooses to be with her OB and not work on herself or the M. But she doesn't like that, she wants to know you still care about her, because she is the most important thing in the universe, donchaknow. So she makes sure you hear more and more of her sadness and emptiness ~ that she refuses to do anything about, mind you. In fact, your inquiry was met with "It's non of your business."

Well then, tqt, make it none of your business. She is an ADULT. Her bottom is hers to find alone. I know you want to help her, to let her know you are there for her. IMO, that just prolongs her bottom-hitting. She doesn't like that you are playing your OWN game now, IMO. She wants you to still be playing hers, even if on just a subconscious level.

I feel very strongly, that to EVER have a relationship with this woman again, in a healthy way, you have to let her go first ~ wholly and completely. Let her hit her bottom, if she lets herself (because she might just let herself live on a very low level the rest of her life, too afraid to do anything different ~ which is HER CHOICE). Let her seek out help and understanding for herself, if she is capable. Because only when SHE is ready, will SHE seek it out. And if she is ready, she will, I promise you. And it is something she will NEED to do on her own, it is all part of the process.

All you can control is you. Do not feel guilty for letting her hear the consequences of her own actions. IMO, she doesn't get that enough. Let her feel your distance, that she created. It is not pleasant for her, but that is OK. True growth hurts, and it is usually pretty ugly ~ the process. The results are wonderful. She knows what she should do. The ball is in her court. It is OK that you do not support her poor choices.

I say just continue to proceed with the MD, send her stuff to sign, and get it over with. Maybe that is what it will finally take. Maybe not. But you cannot continue to doubt yourself and your actions. You have gone above and beyond, 100's of times ~ you have no shame in your actions, no guilt. You are an adult, and you have to take care of yourself, just as she needs to take care of herself. In this as well, you must lead by example. Your example is: "This relationship hurts, it is not good for me, I want to be happy."

Guess what? That might be what she thinks of her relationship now with OB. But she's not sure what to do. Show her. Actions speak louder than words. Maybe you can teach your WWW how to grow up???


Well, because it is becoming YOUR bed, all sides of it. This will happen. You might even find that you like the other side of the bed better! I did after H had been gone for a while. The room looked a little different over there! I think it would be good therapy for you to go to sleep in the MIDDLE of the bed from now on. And be surprised in the morning where you end up.

Spidey

You mean Iliotibial Band Syndrome? The inflammation of the Iliotibial Banda, the thick band of fibrous tissue that runs down the outside of the leg? The thingie that begins at the hip and extends to the outer side of the shin bone (tibia) just below the knee joint, which functions in coordination with several of the thigh muscles to provide stability to the outside of the knee joint? The condition often seen in people who suddenly increase their level of activity, such as runners who increase their mileage?

Nope.

NOT making light of it, Spidey... I've lived with knee pain since I was 15? and it's no fun. Broke my kneecap playing soccer in high school, and had the smaller piece removed. BUT... I bet what you're experiencing is much worse, especially when you have your running goals to pursue.
Are you wearing one of those straps on the leg? (I read about it in the process of doing my exhaustive research on "ITBS" -- people seem to swear by them)

Yeah, well, you'd BETTER promise, because... and I already told you I'm kinda paranoid about injuries in that the simplest things can sideline you -- let me emphasize sideline you.
And just a few seconds ago, I read one guy's opinion which was to stop running until the ITBS is under control. Go to the PT, Spidey... you're on a roll with your running, etc! and you don't want to mess with it.
Disclaimer <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />: I am not a physician, physical therapist, or personal trainer. But I do care a lot about my friend Spidey, and I (generally) err on the side of caution... a couple missed training sessions/runs/whatever, and a couple weeks or so longer to reach The Goal... is MUCH better than an injury that results in 26 missed sessions and months of delay in pursuit of the 26-Mile Holy Grail!

See? This must be why I have a STBXW and not a W... I like to give "advice" when a) it's unsolicited, and b) I don't know what I'm talking about

Seriously, is it annoying? I think it must be.

I'll stop there and wait for your answer, before moving on to all the really helpful things you said about STBXW, and me. "Really helpful"... what a lousy choice of words...
more accurately, as I was reading it this morning, I felt my eyes starting to water, because you hit on so many things that I've been feeling, and thinking about... I'm not sure how you do it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> but... it's pretty amazing.

for now, I'll just say "Thank you."

Heck no! At least it isn't to me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Yep, that's the IT band thingie I was talking about! I started running on it yesterday, and it wasn't tender, it HURT. And part of me said, "Pain is not good, forget the run today." And that OTHER part of me said, "No pain, no gain, let's do this run anyway!"

And before I started this marathon training gig, I would have gone with the latter way of thinking. But yesterday, I told myself that my goal is the marathon in November, not having a good 25 minute training run in early June. So I iced it yesterday, and took it easy. Just rode my new bike all over town. And last night, as I was coming home from my final ride of the day, my back tire went flat! I mean, flat flat flat flat ~ no air at all. They put slime in the tires, so H tried to pump it up, but it has a tear or something very large in it, because the air just whizzes right out again.

I know I got this IT band thingie from my old ankle injury, though. Because I only have it in one leg. If I could only have two legs like my left leg. It doesn't get shin splints, pulled muscles, OR sore knees. It is a trooper. This weekend, we are doing our "short" run, only 6 miles. From now on in the schedule, we have a long week, followed by a shorter week. So, the week after next (that I am missing because of a Scout backpacking trip) the group is doing 9 miles. Then back to 7, then up to 10 ~ you see the pattern. So, hopefully I will be able to get a short run in on Thursday, if my knee is feeling better. If not, I should be able to wing a 6-miler with no weekly minutes. I am so irritated at myself, because I really had the thing under control. Each week it was hurting less and less ~ sometimes not at all. Well, what an important lesson for me to learn about doing that step class on Fridays while I'm training for a marathon!


And I will say, "You're welcome!" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Spidey

Spidey, how's the knee doing?
Hey... now don't think for a SECOND that I'm trying to steal your knee pain, but at the gym tonight I was particularly "in tune with" some pain I've been having on the outside of my right knee, and up/down a few inches. I never experienced the same thing before until a few weeks ago, and it's sorta hanging out every time I do certain leg stuff. Doesn't seem to be getting worse, but I thought about all that "ITB" stuff tonight, and wondered.....

That was my excitement at the gym, anyway... other than the girl who's a spittin' image of Tom Cruise's new girlfriend... forgot her name...

And your PT appointment is: ________ ?

I've been thinking a lot about what you said a couple posts ago. I've read it about 8 times, at least.

As much as I'm fully capable of rambling on ad nauseum, I'm not going to do that (yeehaa!!!).
By now it seems like my self-talk, analysis, introspection, etc, etc should've slowed down a little (in the process of "healing" and "moving on") but it hasn't... it's all very active and healthy and continues to consume a lot of my brainpower. But at the same time, I'm feeling the urge to put as much of this behind me as possible and dedicate my weary brain to thinking about my future.

I said I wasn't going to ramble.... oh, what the h#ll... just ONE more time <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I guess I'm still in limbo... and I'm trying to figure out what's keeping me from getting from Point A to Point B. Best answer I have is that it's a combination of a couple things: feeling sorry for her, and, since we're not D'd yet, a completely irrational pining for what we once had, and what my ridiculous fantasies suggest that we could have again. I know that won't happen.

If only...

If only she could've figured out just a COUPLE things SOONER... things that I do believe (from her actions, words, and absence of both) she's finally figured out.

If only she had the strength to tell OB to back off, at least for a while!, so she could have time to sort things through...

If only she had better "support" -- meaning, other than the few people she went to who did nothing but AVOID the whole mess, and chose the ol' "whatever makes you happy" route...

If only.... about 52 other things...

Tell me if I'm thinking clearly about this: if she was that unhappy with our marriage, she wouldn't still be floundering about D'ing me 9 months after walking out the door, and... TWENTY months after first getting entangled-to-the-point-of-no-return in her EA.

Very timely, Spidey... just yesterday before reading your words.... just for a few minutes it became crystal clear how cruel she has been. Almost like I could -- for the first time! -- eliminate all the if's/but's and see the cruelty (and that was the exact word that came to mind) of what she's been doing... and doing for a long time now.

But I know she's miserable...... and knowing that makes everything so much harder for me.

Time to shut up....

At least ONE thing remains constant -- after all, we all have to have something to hang our hat on -- It Still All Sucks.

ps. I'm not a whiner, by nature. Never was, and hopefully never again will be!

pps. Worrying about Homer..........

Here I am, mustering up the nerve to announce to my STBXW that I'm filing for the Big D, and my Chief Counsel is off riding her new bike!

Spidey, do I have to send you an iPod to cart around with you? Or would you do one of those turn-the-iPod-off things and mumble something about not getting paid enough to be available 'round the clock?

I'm back! I just got home with my new book (rode my new bike, of course), and ready and willing to listen to, er, read ~ you.

So, what is coming up for you? Why have you decided to do it today?

Spidey

Oh man... things just got all screwy... having to do with BIL/SIL wanting to COME HERE Friday night... this all sucks.....................

more later...

ps. Those girlfriends of yours still single?