I WILL!!! I am making it today. Thank you for your support and encouragement. I am NOT missing my first half-marathon, and maybe that is why I was afraid to tell anyone, because I was afraid they would advise that I give that up. But, this 1/2 marathon means more to me than I think I even consciously realize right now.

I'll write more later when I have more appointments to report. We didn't really do anything yesterday. The relatives were burned from their day on the boat Saturday, my knee hurt, etc. I think they went and saw a movie, and I told them if it was rated R, that we weren't going, because we have DS12. We let him see some R rated, but we like to have seen them first.

Sex scenes are REALLY uncomfortable with 12 and 13 year olds! I don't mind telling them what they want to know on the subject itself, but even a short sex-scene can seem like it takes HOURS to finish with them sitting next to me.

Spidey

Spidey, I promise to not yell at you...

maybe...

How's the knee?

Well, I went to yoga last night, for the first time in forEVER . . . and it felt GREAT. My knee didn't hurt once, and I think that is a good sign. I am making the appointment TODAY, because I have the day off from working. My van is still in the shop getting some dashboard lights replaced ~ so I can see how fast I'm going at night AND how much gas I have ~ and H is taking the car today. So, it's just me and my trusty BIKE.

I will report back later with my appointment information. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Spidey

Spidey, if you stop and "do yoga" every 2 miles, your time's gonna stink!
If it were me, I'd stay off the bike until Sunday, but...
Are you running tomorrow?

Spidey, I hope you're ok.
And I hope I haven't "turned you off" with my.... overbearing admonitions... about your knee. I suspect that I have.
I just want to see you get to the Big 13... and then, and it WILL happen, the Big 26.
But you're 33 now <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />, so you don't need some idiot stranger like me giving you a hard time -- you know exactly what you need to do. I've told you before that I'm kinda paranoid about injuries insofar as they can keep you (anyone) from reaching your goal... and blow away all the hard work it took to get to where you are. I'm a P.I.A. because I care, and I'm rooting for you.

Anyway, I'm truly sorry if I've been annoying.

I WAS going to try to bring things up to date, and describe the last few interactions I've had with STBXW. Actually, I DID try. But to be honest, I can't do it justice -- I can't, at this point, even begin to explain anything... let alone understand it myself.

I've been betrayed, yes... but maybe what's even worse is that I think I've been duped. From the beginning.

WHY did she "hang around" for 24 years?

And WHY can't she come to terms with whatever it is she's had SO LONG to figure out, no matter WHAT it is?

Heck no! I did forget about making that appointment yesterday, though. I don't know why this stuff isn't more front-and-center in my head, on my To-Do list. So, my goal is to do it today when I get home from my job.


My experience, both in my own personal life and being here on MB for over a year, is that this is a very common way to feel ~ for the place you are at right now. IMO, you have not been duped from the beginning. At some point, you must let her actions/words go (to some extent) and trust yourself. By trusting yourself, I mean trusting that ~ for the past 24 years ~ you are capable of knowing what love is from another person. Because if you let yourself continue to believe she has that kind of power ~ to dupe and deceive for 24 years ~ where will be your confidence in your next relationship that you are truly receiving love, or being duped?

Your STBXWWW's issues are hers alone, tqt. Her inability to know herself, to face her ugliness and accept it and change it if she wants, are the anchors she will carry around with her for years to come. It is so sad, and I know as someone who loves her, who has loved her, you would do most anything to "help" her ~ and you HAVE done lots of stuff for her. BUT . . . her baggage/garbage/anchors are hers and hers alone. Do not take on any of her crap ~ you will neither lessen her load, nor will it serve you in any way.


I remember the "Why Why Why's," and I'm glad I'm not in them anymore. A day will come, tqt, that you will not have these unanswerable questions floating around your mind and heart taking up valuable time and energy. Because even having my H be willing to talk about all this stuff for months, and him feeling sorry for what he had done, I did not get these questions answered ~ FROM HIM. All of these questions were eventually answered inside of myself. I didn't realize it would happen like that, though. For months and months I tried to wrest these answers from H. But to no avail.


Good question. And very hard to do, as you know from personal experience. There have been lots of things that you have had to "come to terms with" during your separation. It is hard to do when you are open to it, actively seeking it. Your STBXW is not open and not seeking. She just can't face it. I think she can't face the ugliness inside of her, and face it, and work to change it. So she turns from it, hoping it will maybe go away. And we both know how well ignoring a problem and hoping it will go away works!!!


Maybe just start with the facts, and work your way out from there? Tell it like a story, and we'll expand on the details later?

Whatever you can do works for me. So, I'll try and remember to make this appointment, and you try telling me a story. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Spidey

As per your instructions, it is Monday, July 25th, at 2 pm!!!

Just in time for him to say, "Why/How did you run on this knee???"

Oh well. At least he can give me specific stretches/exercises to do on my vacation, where I doubt I will run at all. I'm afraid to run in Denver before becoming climatized ~ I would probably stroke out or something. That is major elevation!!

Chat at you later.

Spidey

Spidey, just one thing...

Good luck today! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thank you! I'm hoping the excitement of the race is going to help my lack of overall fitness lately. Because of the knee pain, I haven't been able to do many training runs (none in the past 2 weeks, actually). It all just compounds itself, unfortunately.

BUT, now I have a PT appointment, and I'm back to my Tuesday night yoga, so I should be feeling lots better about all this in a few weeks. Four, tops. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

I will post later with my time and overall health. Thanks for thinking of me today. Do you have out your dry-cleaned pom-poms? I seriously could need them today. I hope they are in my "colors" ~ you know, PINK, so I recognize who you are rooting for. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />

Spidey

Uhhh.... YES! Of course!

And...... ???
Well................?????

Who cares about your time... just hoping you're ok, Spidey... particularly that spot between your femur and your tibia.

But anyway, for now: Congratulations to you, Ms. Slayer <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I made it! It was rough, tough, hot, and it hurt, but I did it. 2 hours and 40-some minutes. I forgot to stop my chronometer when I finished, because I was so distracted with the joy of stopping running. But as soon as I get the time from my timing chip, I will "officially" let you know.

*sigh*

I am feeling pretty good. I saw the PT I am seeing Monday ~ he started just ahead of me. I said, "I have an appointment with you on Monday. I'll be limping." He said, "Are you limping now?" I said, "No, but I will be then." He said, "Sounds like something isn't right."

tqt, it was so hard near the end. I still don't know how I did the last 2 miles. My H met me when there was about .3 left, and some of my other friends at about .2, and they really made all the difference in me getting to the end sooner rather than later. And everyone cheering me on. It was great. I hope I was able to smile for the photographer ~ he was supposed to be around mile 6 ~ he was at mile 12.9! Good grief.

Anyway, I'm going to go rest more, with frozen peas on my knee. Chat at you tomorrow! I saw the pink pom-poms, by the way ~ they are PERFECT! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Spidey

I have a HUGE <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> on my face!!

SO COOL, Spidey.......

I know (well, I DON'T know, but I DO know) it was HARD. But you did it!!!!!!!

That was funny! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hope you have a GREAT, RESTFUL day today -- you've earned it!!

I'll be back later... heard some mildly interesting news about STBXWWW last night, and I should probably bring things up to date anyway. Not in the mood for it right now, though.

Besides... we can't put a damper on your celebration!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

ok... so about the "mildly interesting news"... and to bring things up to date...

"Mild" is the keyword, but then again, maybe it's a clue... to a puzzle that I'm trying not to care about anymore....

Talked to a friend at the gym yesterday. He's a PT, and he saw a new patient this past week who just happens to report to STBXWWW at work.
After going thru the yes-I-know-her/yes-I-know-him/blah blah blah smalltalk, she said "She (STBXWWW) hasn't been herself lately.... and it's not just me... it seems to be the concensus... lots of people are saying that."
He said "well, I know they're having some problems..." (he does know the real story)
She said "well, that must be it then."

How he related the conversation to me, a couple things struck me. This woman wasn't talking about "hasn't been herself" over the last year++... she was talking about recently. And, it sounded like she had no clue that there was another man involved... or a pending divorce... anything.

Could it be that this relationship (whatever R there is) between STBXWWW and OB is STILL being kept under wraps? It all fits... there's no "relationship" and there probably never was anything but teenage infatuation and the two of them feeding each other's ego.

I'm surmising (somewhat intelligently so, I think) that neither one of them wants ANY of this to get out in public... after all this time...

So then, it must be that she was simply miserable in our marriage, and just needed to get out of it. And 17 months since D-Day, she's still stalling in the D process.

After bugging her to pick up "her stuff" that I (finally) moved out into the garage on Memorial Day weekend, she was here last weekend. She took part of it. She left me a message saying she'd get the rest of it during the week (she didn't). And she said she would send me a check that would've been a step closer to getting a Settlement.... she didn't. And she said she'd email me and let me know what her plan was to get this mess over and done with... she didn't.

That's the scoop. All very pathetic -- on her part, and mine. Pathetic on her part, because she blew everything up, and still refuses to finish it off. Pathetic on my part, because I haven't filed the papers myself.

And after hearing the "she's just not herself" story, I'm back into feeling-sorry-for-her mode.
And convinced more than ever that many, many months ago she got herself involved in a textbook, cheap disgusting affair, and didn't have the wherewithal to get herself out of it.

So as the dust continues to settle... and it'll be a long time before it does... everyone loses.

Maybe most of all, the 15-year old boy who now has a part-time Dad. It makes me sick. It'll always make me sick.

I tried... I really, really tried. And thinking about that poor kid... if I had exposed this affair when I first became aware of it (many months before finding MB!), most likely, that 15-year old boy would have a real father right now. He'd have a real family.

Sorry... not in a great mood at the moment.

Spidey... what's the scoop? How'd it go??

I'm not in a very good "place," I guess.

My STBXW, I'm surmising (because that's all I can do), isn't either(?)

But I need to move on. At the same time, for some reason -- probably a reason I don't want to know --- I haven't been able to get myself to "do the dirty work" myself. It's as if it's more comfortable (less pain) to just try to nudge her along with the D process, rather than grab the bull by the horns and do it myself.

I'm definitely healing, whatever that means.

And I can't "go there" because I'm afraid to... "there" is an understanding of exactly how I do, or don't, still feel about that person I've spent almost 25 years of my life with.

I'd rather not still love her... I'd rather hate her with a passion, but I don't think that's the case. Her inaction, continued failure to do what she says she's going to do to put our M out of its misery... only makes it harder for me. I may read into it incorrectly, but it says to me that she knows blowing up our M was a mistake.

At any rate, it appears that I have to continue to nudge her... and email still feels like the medium of choice...

Does the following email make sense, given the above?


I do feel pretty pathetic at the moment... does that sound as pathetic as I feel?

tqt, please don't associate "comfortable" with "less pain." In fact, it has been my experience, that we as human being tend to put ourselves through the MOST pain while trying to avoid stepping out of our comfort zone. We are strange creatures, to be sure.

The best "guide" I can give you, what I use myself is ~ What would my decision be if it was not made from a place of fear? Oftentimes, to do this, I must take any expectation I may have off of the outcome of my decision. Not try to "guess" at what my actions may or may not produce. Because, in all honesty, life works in ways that cannot be understood, or predicted, or expected.

The only thing you can do is make decisions for yourself, what is best for you, what works for you. As long as these decisions are not made with malice toward another person ~ and thanks to your nature I am pretty sure they won't be ~ the end result will be good for you. You have to trust that you will be taken care of, because you will, tqt.


Love and hate are but different sides of the same coin. In order to hate somebody, you still must have yourself invested in them somehow. I think hate is worse than unrequited love, actually, because hate drains away your energy, your personal power. It is one of the highest gifts, IMO, that we humans can give in this world ~ love without any expectation of anything in return. Very Christ-like, and not easy for us to do.

No, indifference is what you are seeking, I think. Indifference is the opposite of love, if there is such a thing as an "opposite" to love.


Pathetic? No. However, you are still EXPECTING something from her. I know you are expecting what you think she should do, but . . . I don't think it is wise to expect anything from a STBXWWW. Would you expect your expecting to end after the D is signed finally? When does your expecting expect to end?

I think that you doing this D process by yourself, for yourself, is what your "life" is wanting you to do. This could be a very important lesson for you, a wonderful learning opportunity.

I have come to realize that all growth hurts, is painful, and scary. I have now realized the things in my life that I resist, are the ones that persist. Because if you don't hear life whispering in your ear today, you will surely hear it shouting at you later.

So, did you already send the email? I also had a GREAT reply almost finished before we left on vacation to your last post ~ and I LOST IT!!! Grrrrr. And I had no time to redo it, as we were leaving. I had to just leave you hanging. I will try and recall what it was about, because it was pertaining to something I had just read in my "Passionate Marriage" book, and it was directly appropriate (at least IMVHO <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />) to your post. But now I have to re-read that part of the book, as I read 2 others on my vacation, and my head is now in a different place.

BTW, I had a GREAT vacation. My DS had a great time at Denver University (DU, as he calls it). In fact, he has decided to go back each year, and he also has his heart set on going to DU now after high school. Before this, he had wanted to go to H's brothers college, University of Alaska. But now, it is DU.

We also went to the Denver Zoo (I love zoos!), Denver Museum of Natural History and Science (terrific space exhibit, we learned soooo much), Elich Gardens (6 Flags) and the adjoining water park, the Dinosaur National Monument, and drove through the Flaming Gorge. And we got home a day early. WOW. We had a great time, and I feel so rested and rejuvinated. Many long hours of driving to contemplate and think, and great inspiring scenery. Awesome.

Anyway, how are you doing now? Anything new? Give an update when you can. I'll talk about my PT appointment later. I am still recovering, and haven't been able to run since the 1/2 marathon, if that tells you anything. *ugh* I am restructuring my goals, and I do want to share them with you. I'll be back later. I still have another email system, and another board system, to check in on. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Spidey

Wow, talk about a delayed response <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Welcome home Spidey... I've missed you!

"We had a great time, and I feel so rested and rejuvinated."
It's really good to hear about all that fun AND educational stuff you did... I like the "DU" part, too <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

"Give an update when you can."
Will do, hopefully tomorrow. I'm doing ok... pretty good. Things have happened in the last couple weeks (with regard to VerySTBXW), and right now I'm typing away as I sit on an island 40 miles off the coast of Honduras, in the western Caribbean... SOMEbody's gotta make the arrangements for that party... you didn't think I'd forget, did you?

Thank goodness we have you! And don't forget, I want all my drinks to have those little umbrellas in them . . . no exceptions!!!

Have a safe trip, and update more when you can.

Spidey

OK, so, I have had some wine tonight. I am saying that, in case I need to come and edit this in the morning. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> I don't know why, but you are the one person on these boards, and in my life besides one girlfriend of mine, who might know where I am coming from ~ and thus be able to head me off that the preverbial "pass."

I am again thinking of this "closure" business that I so vehemently argue against on these boards, and with you on occassion.

My friend and I went out this weekend dancing and drinking, and it was great fun. After we got home, while I was changing into pajamas (it was a girl's night, slumber-party) she snuck out with her cell phone and called an old boyfriend at 3 am. Bad news. I told her calmly, yet firmly, to get off the phone, as she shouldn't be calling anyone at that hour, and drunk. She kept telling me she needed "closure." I told her my "theory" on the subject of closure, and she eventually hung up.

The next day, she called said X back and apologized for her call. They talked through many old issues that had been still bothering my friend, and she called me later in the afternoon and told me how much better she had felt for talking to him. She really felt a type of "closure" with him.

Of late, especially after the drink, I have wanted to contact FBF/OW. I don't know if I have told you this, but I identify with women MUCH better than with men. Of my male friends, I count my H, his best friend, a high school friend that I haven't been able to locate in several years, and you. In short, I miss my FBF very much on many days. We shared a likeness, a chemistry, that is very hard for me to find. I have 2 other best friends on this planet ~ one in Florida that I befriended in Germany while H was in the Army, and one in Virginia that I used to work with when we lived there. I have many aquaintances, but they are vastly different than "best friends."

So, we come to the question of "what would my expectation be of said contact?" Well, sometimes I feel very generous and want to let her know I harbor her no ill will, that I forgive what she did. I also do wish to hear from her that she did love me in return, at some point. And because of that expectation, I should not contact her. Right?

I guess I would like to tell her my special feelings I had for her, and that I miss her terribly, and that I feel sorrow that circumstances make is so we cannot be friends again. And yes, I do wish for a favorable reply from her. If I heard a less than favorable reply . . . it would hurt, but I suppose I would get over it. Maybe I just need to hear her feelings, to get over it? Maybe even dealing with the negative would be better than this grayness of not knowing?

What do you think, my valued friend? Your opinion means much to me, even if you don't think it should. You self-depricate too much ~ you have much to share, and many wise thoughts.

Thank you, tqt. Know that I will not send anything until I am sober. My girlfriend's experience from this weekend has begun my wheels turning again, I think.

Spidey

Spider Slayer, I know I am intruding on this thread, but I want to say I was in this very same position. I WAS the OW to the H. of a family friend of mine. We took trips together. Our boys were close to the same age and were friends. We went to the same church. We got together EVERY weekend and did something and shared a babysitter.

We tried to do what you are wanting to do. We talked on several different occasions. She sent me a card once that she missed me (even after what I had done).

But, as you know, it cannot be repaired and it cannot be undone. The damage is too great.

It is honorable of you to want to talk to her and share your feelings, especially considering she was the one in the wrong.

I'm just afraid you will not get the result you want. It's really not possible. Time will help all of this and you won't think about like you do now.

Sorry if I intruded. I just feel like it is picking at an old wound, for you and for her, that may have begun to heal.

Susan