Yes, he does doesn't matter whether it is male or female he has no boundaries. The only person he has ever been able to say no to is me because I am a "sure thing" so to speak. He has a friend that completely runs his weekends. Because my H likes this guy he will allow him to guilt him into working Sat/Sun and put his family last. This has happened with other relationships as well. I believe that is how he ended up in at least two A's. He lets the other person lead. Same thing with work, he will work 12 hours a day and b*tch and complain to me but not put any boundaries on his time. I copied and sent him your quote yesterday. Told that I am not trying to *fix* him just hoping to get him to think. My hope is after our D he will step up and put his kids first. It is funny but instead of boundaries he will do things like dig in his feet and do the opposite of what the other person wants or undermine the other person. Very passive/aggressive type stuff. Anyway, keep on..I am learning lots.

believer! I am so happy you lurk on this thread. Give us some of your wisdom occassionally, would you? Sheesh. I miss ya!

Faithful, that SUCKS about your stbx. Even though I am leary about my H, I am very proud of him that he has sought out help on his own, and is working to figure himself out ~ not just reacting from one situation he finds himself in to another. You have reminded me of what to be grateful for in my sitch. Thank you so much for that.

Well all, I registered for my classes yesterday at the local college. I am taking 13 credits, beginning January 17. At first I was feeling extremely overwhelmed, but then I realized that by a miracle, I got all my classes on the days and times that I need. And there weren't many classes left to choose from! The Universe is taking care of me ~ I put out there what I wanted, and I got it.

So, my foot is firmly on the path of my grown-up dream of being a psychologist. At this rate, I should be done in 3 years. Holy Crap. Well, just with my undergraduate. Then I need graduate school. But three years will just fly by. I can't believe my boys are already 13 and 14! Where did THAT time go?

I am able to fit all my clients in on Tuesdays and Thursdays, just like I wanted to. Now all I have to worry about is parking, because it is an issue. BUT, I have over a month to figure that out.

I am excited, anxious, a little scared, but DETERMINED to create the life I want to live. I also signed up for my other running program that begins January 8th. Woo hoo! I gotta get in shape for the beginning of that one, holy crap.

Spidey

I'm another lurker! Spidey - I just check in here to see how you are doing (sorry TQT!). Congratulations on getting signed up for school. That is AWESOME!!! I know you will do great. You are so brave to do it now, it would be so easy to sit back and be comfortable with your life or come up with a thousand excuses but you are getting out there and doing it. I am so proud of you. You are my hero!!

Thanks for the vote of confidence, Kloe! Although, if I am your hero, you gotta get out more, girl! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Keep lovin' and squishin' that baby girl for me. Is she still wonderfully chubby and pink and smiley and gorgeous???

Spidey

She gets more beautiful everyday! Can you believe she will be 1 next week? She is running and getting into everything, the dog food and water bowl are her favorites! She is the light of our lives.

I truely believe she is our gift from God. It was no accident or coincidence that I got pregnant when I did (right when FWH's PA began, after trying on and off for 2 years). Without her I don't know how I would have gotten through last year. We are given free will by God, but every now and then he provides a little miracle to influence that free will.

Holy crap! One year old already??? Where does the time go? I remember when you were still pregnant. Wow.

My kids didn't do the dog food/dog water thing much, but my oldest son LOVED pulling down all our VHS tapes each day from the entertainment center. He literally got up each morning, and pulled them all down. Then after nap he did the same thing. He was a maniac about those tapes! I didn't mind, they were more durable than the few "breakables" I kept up high away from him.

I do believe that God gives us our miracles when we need them ~ we just have to have the courage to see what is there, not just what we want to see.

I am so happy for you. Can she stay at the daycare at your work for a long time? Or is it meant only for infants/toddlers?

Geez, the next person who apologizes for posting on this thread will... will...
Ok, I'm not sure yet what the punishment will be.
But whatever I did -- a long time ago -- to scare people away, I'm sorry!

This is every bit as much Spidey's thread as it is mine (as it should be, if she's getting 31% of the book royalties <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />)

Spidey, you have a lot of trees out there, so would you please find a nice, healthy, happy one and post a big huge "Lurkers Welcome" sign.... thanks :-)

Uh-oh.
Can't you see the headline in the local paper?
"Budding Genius Psychologist Spends First Semester In Parking Lot"
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Spidey... seriously though... you can park a horse just about anywhere, can't you(?)

ps. Congratulations :-) I AM happy for you!

I'll post some updated gibberish somewhere between very soon and... soon.

You are so funny. Luckily, I am not so easy to scare off.

Yeah, yeah, I can park my horse just about anywhere out here, except on anyone's potato patch. That is a very serious offense here, and it just is not done.

I guess the parking problem at this university is so bad, that there is a 2 year waiting list for the Restricted permits ~ they are very expensive elective permits. The parking was bad when I went here in 93-94, and since then the college has grown exponentially, tuition has tripled, and they have added ~ literally ~ 2 parking structures. I was shocked when we moved back and saw the size the the campus, and NO NEW parking. The structures they have built have only been in the past 2 years. *sigh*

But I will persevere. Even if I have to park in the Winco parking lot down the road and hike in, I will. In the summer, I will strap my sparkley new bike on the back of my car, park wherever I want, and coast on to campus. Woo-hoo.

Well, I am breathlessly awaiting your update. I am off to do the jobs I didn't do yesterday, due to the fact that I was snowed in.

Spidey

I'm sorry, Spidey. It's been hard for me to post sometimes... "emotionally" I mean -- or something to that effect. Not sure why, exactly, because I do have lots to say, and it does help to write... and it always helps to hear your words of wisdom. Always.

The only thing I can figure out is what's probably the most obvious... some part of my brain is still associating this place with that, ummm... "P" word... Pain.

Once I get started though... watch out :-)

As far as VV(?)STBXWWW goes, here's the latest in a nutshell...
About 10+/- days ago, she finally (after one more prodding), said she'd mail the "Post Nuptial Agreement" -- that THING that could've and SHOULD have been done many many months ago, and that now means very little, because everything has, piece by piece, been settled anyway.

Well, she didn't mail it, but decided she had to drop it off in person. Remember, I haven't seen her in a year(?) (I think this micro-thread started at that point, give or take) And, I don't think I've even heard her voice for 6? months. Anyway, I got home from the office on that Saturday afternoon, and found a message on the machine -- she was coming over to drop off the agreement sometime that afternoon. So the calm, cool, collected guy that I am... I turned around and walked right back out the door and got out of here -- I do NOT want to see her ever again, if I can help it.

Then, an hour or two later, I got another message from her on my cell phone (telling me she dropped off the paperwork).

It was very weird -- it was like she wanted to see me or something.... what she was doing just didn't make any sense, after so long.

So, I reviewed the agreement, and sent it back to her the next day. So, she received it on my birthday, which I thought was... I dunno... appropriate.

That same day, I got home from work, and found a message from my STBXSIL/BIL -- haven't talked to them in 9+? months -- they called to say Happy Birthday, that they think of me often, and hope I'm doing well. Kinda threw me for a loop or two...
But after a while I started thinking "well, I guess in the 14 months since VSTBXWWW walked out, she hasn't convinced her brother/SIL what a lousy marriage/husband she had."

Fast-forward a few hours... I woke up Thanksgiving morning (the day after my birthday) to find a message on the answering machine. She had called at 2:45 AM, sang "Happy Birthday" to me, and hung up. (I didn't hear the phone ring, thankfully, because the phone in my bedroom isn't working, and I never bothered to fix it -- not as if I need one there, unfortunately <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />)
Anyway, it was obvious she'd been out, and drinking, which explains the 2:45 AM...

No big deal, right? Well, it was one very strange, surreal way to start Thanksgiving Day. (Any day, at this point.) It just made me feel very, very strange. I have no idea what she was trying to do. Just one more, maybe(?) last, THING from her that I can't make sense of. Maybe the last time I ever hear from her. And probably something that will stick in my brain forever.

Anyway... now it's just a matter of waiting... I wonder if she'll let me know when we're divorced, or will I have to dig that out of her too(?)

That's pretty much the scoop on the final remnants of my marriage. Although... and maybe you can help me with this... is it "normal," do you think, to still -- at this stage of the game -- have days where one feels enormous amounts of love and compassion for the permanently-wayward-gone-forever-spouse? In spite of the fact that the way they treated you deserves nothing but contempt, at best? I know... stupid question. But it bothers me when it happens.

Enough of that. Really, the more pertinent topic is that of HSS, which I won't go into now.
Just another story of Huge Amounts of Pain (her's).

Believe me, "I'm No Angel" (that's a song)... but I'm still amazed (wrong word) at how much pain some people inflict on others, when not doing so can be so #^!@&* simple.

ps. So, Spidey... is this a "school night," or what? I'm envious... (seriously!)

A way-overdue note to Octobergirl...

O, I'm sorry that I've neglected to respond before now. And I do mean that.
When I first read your post, it surprised the heck out of me... and I just didn't know how to respond -- so I decided I needed to think about it a little.

And now, the fact that I haven't responded at all bothers me more.

Here's the bottom line for me...

If, out of the H_e_l_l that brought us all here, we make a new friend... what could be better than that?

tqt, I think it is normal. Especially since you have been in a plan B of sorts you have been removed from her shenanigans and managed to preserve some memories of a love you once had. Hope you don't mind my butting in.

Faithful, you're not butting in at all, and I appreciate your thoughts.
I think you're right -- I have 20-something years of memories... and though of course there were bumps large and small along the way, I never had any reason to think we wouldn't "grow old together."
What led me to ask that question (is it "normal"...) is that when I have those days/thoughts... sometimes I wonder if I'm still fooling myself about how I still feel about her. And, how much energy am I expending (but not always consciously) trying to forget her, trying my hardest to NOT remember all the good things... and if I'm repressing those things, am I going about this process in the "best way?"

I go through periods of time when I feel this same way. I hope everything is going steadily over there for you.

Everything here is going pretty well. I think I am starting to get a bit anxious about adding all this extra stuff into already full days, but it is always uncomfortable outside of the comfort zone. I just need to keep in mind that I am "stretching" myself, and that that is a way of growing.

At the gym today, I ran on the treadmill in preparation for my new 1/2 marathon training that is coming up. I don't like running on the treadmill, because in order to not feel like I am falling off the end, I run up very very close to the bar in front, and sometimes knock my arms on the machine. Also, I am afraid I will step off the moving part with only one foot, and go down, so I tend to focus my head down the entire time so I can make sure I am in the middle. Anyway, 40 minutes goes by VERY slowly looking at a machine and bumping arms.

Anyway, since my 1/2 marathon is up a mountain, I decided to put on a hill program. Holy Crap! The highest incline I ran today was just 4.5, for just over a minute (it built up to that ~ I had lots of 1.4, 2.2, and 3.5's before the Big One). Just 4.5! I think the incline I have to run up on my marathon is a 7% or 8% grade. *sigh* At least it was VERY HOT inside the gym today, mimicking the conditions I will run in in May.

I had to run indoors today, because we are having some of the coldest weather in the COUNTRY here in Idaho. Some of the mountain towns around us were at -20 degrees yesterday at 6 pm! I guess there is a High Pressure system (whatever that really means, I have no idea) over Montana right now, trapping in Arctic weather here. All our good weather is going down into Washington and California. By "good" I mean our snow. We have sunshine, but it is BITTER cold.

So, maybe I can get good at running on the treadmill in this month of December.

Check in when you can. How are your injuries doing? My knee is still holding out like a champ, but I am only doing 3 mile runs, so we'll see.

Spidey

Hey faithful! I didn't even realize we had moved on to page 59 until I entered my post, and I saw your post. Our novel is growing!

Please do not ever consider your input "butting in." It is very welcome! tqt needs another POV ~ at this point, he probably knows what I am going to say before I do! I'm pretty set-in-my-ways about certain things.

Spidey

Hello? Are you doing the "it's too painful to post even though I feel better after I do" thing again? Just wanted you to know I've been checking in, looking for you.

Spidey

Hey, that sounds sorta wimpy! But I'll take it, I guess.
That, and I really don't know how to "pick and choose" what to write. I wish I could shut off my brain once in a while, because it's still going at a pretty good clip -- constantly analyzing everything. My marriage, from before it started to the soon-to-be-end, the last couple years since that day we call D-Day, the situation I find myself in now, and of course the future.
On the plus side, I'm pretty sure that in the process of processing, I'm still learning a lot.

Maybe the final word on all that is -- exactly what you've said -- I'm going through a "process" that I need to go through, and there's no way around it.

Put it this way:
This Starting Over thing is for the birds.
No... it's not for them, either.
It sucks.

But I'm doing ok, and I appreciate you wondering Where-The-He|| I am <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

After writing a lot of STUFF, and reading it over, I decided to delete it (ain't technology great?). Nothing earth-shattering, just my brain wanting to dump all the junk that seems to clog it up these days.

I promise to be more human-like soon.

Oh, I think you're a lot closer to this already than you think. What you are going through is ALL human-like. If you weren't going through all these emotions, you would have to be Vulcan-like. And they aren't any fun at all! Except when they aren't trying to be, I guess. Dr. McCoy sure did have a lot of fun at Spock's expense, anyway.

I have been battling either a head cold, or a sinus thing ~ I'm not sure which. I have still been working out, which usually chases this sort of thing away, but not this time. It is hanging on like a DOG. *ugh* I will just keep plowing through it, though, since I have to start running up mountains in less than 1 month ~ in the cold.

My knee is holding up well, though, and I have been doing some serious "soul" work. I am "excavating my Authentic Self" currently. I have scissors, glue sticks, watercolor pencils, a journal to record it all in, and clipping for collages. Very exciting stuff going on here.

Have you made any plans yet as to how you are going to spend Christmas? I hope you are thinking about being with your family, and not running off to check investment property. These are things you will have to face eventually ~ might as well get it over with, IMO. That's what I have been striving to do. Just sit with my emotions, my feelings, and know that I can feel all the negative stuff, and if I hold on long enough, the good stuff will come back around. Because it will.

From my book by Sarah Ban Breathnach "Something More:"



Spidey

Hi Spidey,
I got home this evening, and I was ready and rarin' to go (posting)... I was!
Then my parents called to talk about anything-and-everything-Christmas... ugh... and that was TWO hours ago (would you believe my mother's middle name is Verizon? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />). It's actually kinda funny -- my poor Dad tries his best to hang in there with the conversation, but usually dozes off at about the half-way point.

I guess the fact that such a thing happens at all is some sort of bright spot in this whole thing -- it's not something that would've happened before (before all this affair, etc. stuff, I mean).

Anyway, two hours on the phone with my parents leaves me, ummmm... wiped out <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

But.... I did want to check in and say thanks for your last post. It was (is) very helpful to me. And, I think it's exactly what I need to hear (and of course think about) right now.

Ya know, I recently read (actually heard on an audiobook) that all this Thinking Stuff is a good thing. I can't even remember which book it was.... I'll think about it and let you know <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Talk to ya in the morning!

That's what I'm beginning to think, as well. I guess time marches on no matter what we are doing in the background ~ so we might as well put ourselves to good use!

Glad to hear from you.


Our last trip to Virginia, my H tried his best to hang in there. But I just don't think conversation is as big a drive for men as women. I was tired from not getting much sleep, too, but I just kept talking and talking with my friends. Because I knew I could sleep when I got home, but I had so much catching up to do with my girls. And, quite frankly, men just don't catch up in that same way. My H put in a valiant effort, though. Nobody could tell but me that he had tuned out and was pretty much sleeping with his eyes open at the table with us. My girlfriend's parents were there, and her dad ducked out after only an hour or so. He couldn't take it ~ and/or he is wise enough to know what was coming.

I'm happy your parents talk to you for 2 hours at a time. That is awesome.

Spidey

I just talked to my VVSTBXW for the first time in... a long, long time.
For all of about 8 seconds.

She called me at the office, and said "Hey, it's me. I finally got you -- live."
It took a few seconds for my brain to process the simple fact that it was my wife talking to me. I was dead silent (not by choice, really), and then she said something about "a few more papers you need to sign."
I said "Put them in the mail."
She didn't hear what I said apparently, and replied "Oh, you got them."
I said "Anything you need to talk about, email's fine."
She said "Ok."
And then I hung up on her.

I wasn't nice to her at all. And now I'm in shock.... and ticked off that she called, and ticked off at myself for reacting that way. A lot.

There was NO reason she had to call me -- does she want to be BUDDIES or something(???)

What am I doing wrong? What HAVE I been doing wrong? Or was my reaction within the realm of "normal?" Frankly, it scares the $@#% out of me.