Spidey... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

a) you're doing well, and things are looking up :-)

b) you're really down

if it's (a), then... a simple :-) will suffice!

if it's (b), then... let all of us who care so much... at least try to help.
Or maybe just listen, if that's all we can do.

tqt, Kloe, thank you both so much. I am still "hanging in there." I have really had so much growth happen for myself, and with my M, I cannot regret going through this ~ well, I can when I am feeling sorry for myself and a victim ~ but when I am in my good place and taking responsibility for myself and my life, I don't.

I hope you are both doing well, also. I'll keep checking in here if you do! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Spidey

Spidey, here's my Rant-of-the-Month:


Hmmm... I've never really understood the aversion to "victim status," when it applies...
as if being a victim is... a choice, or a way of coping with an event.
The aftermath of the event is another story, of course, and full of choices.

But...

From Merriam-Webster:
"Victim"
1 : a living being sacrificed to a deity or in the performance of a religious rite
2 : one that is acted on and usually adversely affected by a force or agent <the schools are victims of the social system>: as a (1) : one that is injured, destroyed, or sacrificed under any of various conditions <a victim of cancer> <a victim of the auto crash> <a murder victim> (2) : one that is subjected to oppression, hardship, or mistreatment <a frequent victim of political attacks> b : one that is tricked or duped <a con man's victim>

Leaving the first definition (yikes!) by the wayside....

IMHO, pretty much all BS's are victims.
I also think it's pretty darn "normal" for a human-type person to feel sorry for themselves for being a victim of infidelity. Not as the predominant emotion, and not forever... but I have a problem with finding something "wrong" or maladjusted with what (IMHO) is a perfectly normal, and expected, and nothing-but-human reaction to such a horrific event.

My simple mind wonders... if you (or me, or...) don't accept the fact that you are a victim of certain events (infidelity), then don't you look elsewhere for an explanation of what went wrong (human nature), and by default, end up in the same place we all end up anyway... what did I do to cause this? where did I fail? ..... what did I do to cause my spouse to commit adultery???

Spidey, what happened to This-Isn't-About-You?

I'm not suggesting that we - as victims of infidelity - shouldn't try to figure out what went wrong, and shouldn't learn and grow from the experience. Obviously, we must. I'm only suggesting that there's a line beyond which it becomes nothing but unfounded, unfair, soul-and-spirit-killing self-torture.

There IS such a thing as being unfair to yourself.

"There's no dungeon darker than the human mind."

</rant>

Spidey, what's up with school?

They don't have to be. We all have choices. We can choose to be victims or we can take this experience, learn from it and figure out how to make the best of our lives anyway.

Of couse we do feel sorry for ourselves for a while, but we have to make a choice not to stay stuck there.

See my signature line.

tqt, I understand what you are saying. I believe, though, that the more responsibility I take for myself, the more powerful I feel, the more capable I am. I am certainly not adopting this attitude to ease somebody else ~ this is all about me! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

The difference this time, is that there is no lying and deceit. Everything is out in the open, on the table, no surprises. Well, her telling her H in under a week was a surprise to me ~ I thought it would take a month at least. But, with her unhappy marriage, and after reading their IM's, I knew that feelings were developing both ways.

And to be honest, getting the feelings out in the open, exposed to the cleansing light of day and truth, is the fastest way for those feelings to change. We all know that. Feelings are just feelings, they come and go. Already, the coworker has asked her H to go to MC (he is on psych meds, I don't know exactly what his condition is, but he seems to manipulate with his meds, and he has refused to go to MC, because he doesn't believe in counselors ~ which makes me wonder how/where/why he got the meds he's on now anyway). She realizes her feelings toward my H are a symptom of her M problems, not the cause of them.

As for where H is at right now? We are closer in many ways than we have been since first reconciling. I have faced many of my issues that I didn't even realize were lurking under the surface, making me unhappy. Our communication is much better, and we feel so close to each other. He still isn't sure what he believes, but we are taking it one step at a time, one day at a time.

And, btw, my classes start TODAY! I need to go get ready, in fact. I want to get there early to make sure I know where I am going. I have all my books, a notebook, pens, pencils, a backpack, a parking permit . . . and soooo muuuuch exciiiiitttmmmentttttt! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Spidey

Counselors don't prescribe meds. He prolly got the meds from his physician. I RX this stuff all the time .... many of these meds are used for chronic physical pain, not just psych/mental issues.

Know what is perverse about this ??? You knowing this much about their private business ... when it is none of your business. KWIM? What your H is doing puts you and your H right in the middle of another couple's bedroom ... sorta yuk, doncha think?

Well... yikes!

How would you know all of this anyway?

This is pretty creepy!

Spidey, you've said that you and your H are closer than ever, and that everything's out on the table. And I can imagine that, as in most EA's, your H and OW talk about their M's... so it doesn't seem all that creepy to me that you know all this about the OW's H.

How'd it go today???

I guess I just think it is counter-productive to put labels on things by using words like "creepy." I actually think it goes a long way in explaining why these feelings developed, anyway. And we don't know much about her H, other than what the other coworkers at my H's office know. This has been an ongoing crisis in her family, and has affected her work on many occassions.

As for what my H tells her, it is how great I am, and how happy he is in our M. This has never been about replacing me. The coworker, on the other hand, I don't know. I can get into judgement and labels with the best of them, don't get me wrong. I also know that nobody can take anything away from me. If my H has feelings for her, or eventually leaves me because of her, that is on him, not her. I am disappointed, but I have seen how so many people try to "survive" in unhappy marriages, thinking that they can do it for the kids, etc., only to find themselves drawn to another.

tqt, today went HORRIBLY! I was sooooo incredibly anxious. It brought up all my fear and ego and the very worst in me. I cried all the way to school, on the phone with H, hysterical about everything. Then I finally calm down enough to go to class, and find out that none of the books I have in my backpack are the right books! Every book is wrong!!!

Right before H and I were taking them back tonight, I looked at the packing slip, and they had the wrong person. Someone with the same VERY UNIQUE name as me, different address. I took them back, and they gave me my REAL bag, and all my books are now where they should be ~ with me.

So, today my emotions have run the gammet (gammit? gammut?), and it has been ugly. My H and I are both trying to do our homework now, and we are emotionally exhausted. Ugh.

The good news is that tomorrow we are going to pay off our van. One big bill gone. Our finances are very rapidly getting in order, if nothing else. Even spending over $400 this month on MC. Our insurance sucks. Oh well.

So, I am still standing, barely. Still hanging in there, barely. And still willing to stick it out another day, barely.

I hope your day was WAAAAY better.

Spidey

I think it's g-a-m-u-t (I think).



Remember that every day is a new day, Spidey. I'll be thinking of you tomorrow and hoping it's a better one for you.

Thank GAAAWWWWWD. I feel much better today. Emotionally spent, but no longer the victim that I was yesterday. My H has gone emotionally numb, which is what happens to him when he becomes emotionally overwhelmed. We have noticed very defined patterns that we "dance" in when emotionally overwhelmed. My Fat Sally comes out and tells him what a victim I am, how he has screwed up in the past, how he makes poor decisions, etc. He shuts down and just takes it all, then finally blows up and shuts down.

It's funny that we didn't see this pattern so clearly during our last crisis. I think last time we were so overwhelmed with so many other issues, the way in which we argued didn't rate high on the list.

The good news is that yesterday only lasted part of a day, by last night we were in a safe place with each other again, and today we are OK. Sometimes, this pattern would last for days and days. So I think we are making progress.

I keep reminding myself that nobody can take anything away from me, I am whole as I am, and nobody can hurt me. I take full responsibility for myself and my feelings.

Spidey

Hi Spidey,
About yesterday... ouch!!!
I guess the first day of school is traumatic, no matter how old we are.
When is/was the 2nd day??? We need to keep track of your progress <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
You should be proud of yourself, Spidey!

The first two are credos to live by (as I'm very slowly but surely figuring out for myself), but I don't buy the third... in fact, I think it's impossible!

I don't have kids, but am witnessing (HSS) a situation where trying to survive in an unhappy marriage has resulted in nothing -- nothing -- but hurt and resentment, and baggage-laden parents, and most importantly... "maladjusted" kids. Kids that will be paying the price of two-parents-trying-to-survive-in-an-unhappy-marriage-just-for-the-kids... forever! (Spidey, that wasn't about you. Just spouting off, that's all)

But ya know, as an old 46-year-old, methinks that life's too short not to speak one's mind, as long as the intentions are good, so... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

this is still bugging me...

Are you not being hurt? Are you not hurting?

Spidey, my friend, please scratch that last post.
My intentions were good, but...
It was in poor taste, not helpful at all, and I regret it.

How are you doing?

I am hanging in here! And yes, I am hurting, but it really doesn't hurt as bad if I take more responsibility. Because me hurting isn't going to change H's mind. And I don't want to be hurting for the next several months, or however long it takes. And I don't want to rush into a D. So, my options seem to be 1)taking care of myself, and 2)oh yeah, taking care of myself. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Last night, we put our dog down. He would have been 16 next month. We have had him since we had our second apartment together. He was our first "kid." Oh, it was heartbreaking.

The good news is, I have been cleared to run a bit today. Did I tell you I partially tore my calf muscle? Ugh. But I recovered right this time, by taking it easy, and I healed FAST. Woo-hoo.

Later today we are going on a Scout camping trip. Hopefully we'll be able to get our tent trailer in there ~ we have gotten lots of snow lately. For a fun-filled weekend of sledding and hot springs! We'll all probably come back with colds, but oh well. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Spidey

Spidey - So sorry to hear about your beloved dog. Just know that he had a good life in your care.

Hang in there girl. I think you can do this.

Spidey, I'm sorry about your dog. That's SOOOO hard to do.

Selfishly, once in a while... I think that I'm lucky that I won't have to go through that with two little doggies that are out there somewhere.... with XWW. (I still can't think about them more than a few seconds -- I really really miss them! They were our "kids"..........)

We had a cat once... we got him in California, within a few months after getting married (and I was never a cat person, but this cat was pretty cool, of COURSE <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />). I'll never forget -- when we flew back East for Christmas one year, we brought him with us, still a cute little kitten, and the flight attendants took him up to the cockpit of this big huge 747, and after about an hour or so (wondering where our little friend went!), we were told he was sitting in the pilot's lap for a while, then wandered around first class, and then fed Chateaubriand and shrimp............

Yeah, well, he DID have an attitude after that...

But he was with us for almost 14 years, and when we had to let him go, the vet let us stay with him until just a minute or two before he... went to sleep. I shed a bunch of tears on the way home.

Something that I found years ago, and will always remember...

For you and your family, Spidey :-)

Thanks, believer. You seem to have more faith in me than I have in me.

tqt, thank you for the poem. I would LOVE to see my Grover-dog running to greet me on his gangly legs, toppling over himself in his zeal to reach me ~ and keep right on running. No more old hips, blind eyes, deaf ears. But to see HIM again. *sigh* Very comforting.

Well, general update, H is out of town until midnight Friday due to work travel. He left yesterday afternoon. I went and saw our MC yesterday by myself, as we had inadvertently scheduled the appointment an hour before H's plane took off. Needless to say, it didn't go well.

Where I am at right now is here: I don't want to D until I know that we have irreconcilable differences for 100% sure. Meaning, he finally makes up his mind, and it is in a way I cannot accept. Because I don't want to put our kids through a D, then a reconciliation, because we jumped the gun. That is just so much drama. I remember when my Mother and her 4th H reconciled, and it was aweful. They ended up D'ing, and if they would have just left it alone the first time, it would have gone much better for everyone.

So, I am still just hanging in here. By my fingernails.

Spidey

Hello, my friend.... how are those fingernails holding up?

BTW, I found us on Page 5, which is entirely unacceptable... donchathink?

SS - Hope you saw the article about ENDURING. If you can make it 5 years, you are will be happy together. Yeah, I know, that's a long time.

Well, at least they are getting stronger, I guess. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> I think I am becoming spiritually stronger, by having this constant resistance to push against. I have to keep reminding myself that I am whole as I am, that I am OK as I am, and that I love myself. As long as I love myself, I will attract love back to myself. I truly believe that. I have been conditioned to criticize myself, though. But there is nothing wrong with me ~ I am perfect as I am.

Anyway, yes, page 5 is totally unacceptable. Thanks for remedying the sitch.

believer, I glanced through and tried to find anything on Enduring last night. Is this an article on the site? I was looking for a post with the word "enduring" in it. I would like to read it, because I think I am in the process of "enduring" right now. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for thinking of me, you two. I go pick up my very sick H tonight at the airport. We'll just take it one day at a time.

Spidey