</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am going to go out on a limb and say that I believe that you are indeed using this thread as a "pity party" of sorts. There have been NUMEROUS suggestions to help YOU...not him...but YOU...on this thread and every other one that you have started in relation to these problems (how's that for such a minimalist word) within your marriage. This "journal" of yours is NOT helping you to do the things that you need to do...it is just giving you license to put it to paper...without any action on your part </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I started this thread so I could have place to write down my thoughts and feelings, no one needs respond. I did not want this to be a pity party, I wanted a place to put my frustrations. You are right however, I get to voice my opinion and then not do a darn thing to change anything.

Yesterday I stood up for myself in regards to the house cleaning and the fact that he threw every thing off of my dresser just to prove a point, when I picked it up and put it back he threw it down again, when I told him he then had to clean it he got a garbage bag, when I started to chew him out for how littlehe does and how abandoned I feel in the relationship and how tired I was of doing it all, he walks around the corner grabs me around the neck, gives me a quick squeeze shakes me and then pushes me backwards, and walks away. That is when I said and I quote "Divorce please, I will not live like this". He tried to talk to me and I could not. I made sure I was asleep when H got home and I have been up since 5:30 (DS4 wet my bed AGAIN!).

I do appriciate all the suggestions, Maybe I am not ready to leave, I sure as heck should be after everything that continues to happen. I would understand if you all decided to stop posting to me out of sheer frustration at my hard head if nothing else. I stated before that I guess I am waiting for someone to post a way to fix H, when you are all right, I need to fix me and what I will tolerate and not.

Does anyone have a suggestion on how to better stand up for myself withOUT pissing the H off?

Yesterday I stood up for myself in regards to the house cleaning and the fact that he threw every thing off of my dresser just to prove a point, when I picked it up and put it back he threw it down again, when I told him he then had to clean it he got a garbage bag, when I started to chew him out for how littlehe does and how abandoned I feel in the relationship and how tired I was of doing it all, he walks around the corner grabs me around the neck, gives me a quick squeeze shakes me and then pushes me backwards, and walks away. That is when I said and I quote "Divorce please, I will not live like this". He tried to talk to me and I could not. I made sure I was asleep when H got home and I have been up since 5:30 (DS4 wet my bed AGAIN!).


Reading this paragraph terrifies me. He has the emotional abuse figured out pretty good and he is just inches away from getting physical (again?). I realize the future looks awfully empty (the devil you know sometimes looks better than the devil you don't) but you have to protect/preserve yourself first. As we know, an A is just short of physical abuse as being the worst thing to happen to a spouse...DON'T STAND IN LINE WAITING FOR BOTH! DO YOU HEAR ME?

IMHO, if you can't get out at least quit prostating yourself to the insensitive Bas**rd. I don't know where he is coming from but it sounds like he see's it as a threat to his manhood if you leave or at least threaten too. He comes acroos sort of nice only when you stand up to him but there is always the over tone of violence. I think he is on the verge of taking that next step. I think you know that, too.
Is there any way of living in the same house and keeping away from him until you can figure out how to leave? I'd also consider discussing with a lawyer or councellor how to proceed in the presence of the threat of violence against you and/or your kids. I can just imagine how he might react if HE rolls over onto the wet sheets.
Please be careful for your own sake.

bbrriiaann

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by KMEJ:

Does anyone have a suggestion on how to better stand up for myself withOUT pissing the H off? [/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Okay. I have no personal experience in a situation like this, so if I am totally out of line I hope someone comes along to say so.

That said, KMEJ, YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO STAND UP FOR YOURSELF WITHOUT PISSING YOUR HUSBAND OFF!.

Everything I have ever read or heard of on abuse says it comes, at least in part, from a need for power. For you to stand up for yourself, he must relinquish some of that power.

That's why, IMHO, he gets better for a while. He's still in control when he is being better for a short time because he is still keeping you right where HE WANTS YOU.

He gets to treat you like crap, with your permission. Then when he realizes he went to far, an empty promise of change and a few nice gestures, gets him a wonderful wife who will cater to him because she thinks she is helping their relationship. Then, when the being nice gets old, he gets crabby and takes it out on you again and the cycle repeats.

If you take a stand, with him the way he is right now, he will ALWAYS - EVERY TIME - get pissed off.

You need to take a stand for you and for your children. But it will piss your H off. No way around it in my opinion.

You can not change him KMEJ. You have to find a way to make decisions for you and your children regardless of it upsetting him.

Does anyone have a suggestion on how to better stand up for myself withOUT pissing the H off?

KMEJ,

It's all about boundaries. What boundaries do you have...that have NOT been breached? What boundaries do you have that have been steadfast and enforced?

You can say..."I won't be treated like this"...but then when he DOES treat you like that...what happens? It's words...only words to him.

Anytime you stand up to a controlling person it is going to piss them off. You either leave them...or learn to live by their rules. It seems that is what you are doing...living by his rules. You live by his rules everyday of your life...in all that you do...because the end result of everything is how HE is going to respond to your actions...favorable or unfavorable.

Is that any way to live?

committed

Hi, KMEJ.

I know I haven't posted to you before. I have been reading your posts.

Like others have said, you are in an abusive relationship.

It is impossible for you to appease an abuser. If you could, then they would not be in control. Simple logic, but hard to understand, especially for the victim.

Here is a link (you may have seen it before) for your perusal. It contains a wealth of very real straight forward examples and advice addressing abusive situations. This particular link contains an example interaction between a normal couple and a couple with an abusive spouse.

Here is the main page.

Please seek local assistance in dealing with your husband. At the rate you are burning both ends of the candle, you may quickly find your flame extinguished.

God bless,
Gimble

KMEJ:

It's hard for people who haven't lived with someone like that to understand how much it messes with your head, and how difficult getting out of the situation can seem. A disordered person can make you doubt your own sanity.

The people here are just worried for you and your children.

KMEJ
Sorry I haven't read all your posts...Has your husband been diagnosed with a personality disorder?

When I told my IC that it was important for me to know what my WH's character issues were, she suggested that we concentrate on me instead. But I told her that the reason I wanted to know HIS diagnosis was to know if there was hope for him recovering.

Certain personality disorders are nearly impossible to recover. Did you know that KMEJ? I didn't until a few months ago. Once I realized that it's virtually hopeless for my husband to recover, it helped me separate from him. A part of me still harbors hope that he'll find his way, but I'm not going to dedicate the rest of my life to a losing cause.

Gimble-
Thank you for the link. No I had never been there before.

I do see what you are all telling. Yesterday we have this fight, and today he sets up a card night with my girlfriend and her Husband to go hang out, as if nothing happened yesterday or this morning. We have not talked about anything, nothing got resolved, and H wants to sweep it under the rug like nothing happened. Do I call my friends and cancell or do I go along with it and act like everything is okay?

Currently I am so tired, I worked 14 hours yesterday, got 4 hours of sleep and worked today until 5. My kids want my attention- rightfully so, I played with them for a few minutes, and started a movie so I could have a few minutes of piece. All I really want currently is a nice hot shower and a warm bed. However dinner still needs to be made, I have to finish washing my sheets (DS4 had an accident <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ) and all the other normal parent stuff. THe best job I have ever had- just currently do not have the energy for.

If your little boy is consistently wetting the bed, for your sanity, why not put a diaper on him when he is asleep. Or try waking him during the night and take him to the loo. You sound so worn out with it all and Christmas, though lovely, puts extra demands on parents. Actually, couldn't that be a little job your husband could do to help you. When he gets in from work, couldn't he take your little boy to the toilet. Instead of waking you when you NEED your sleep, maybe he could make himself useful and leave you to get your rest.

He should not wake you or you should come to some kind of arrangement that maybe you will stay up for him a couple of nights a week if that is the only time you get together. Keep well. TT

Bedwetting in a toilet trained child can be a symptom of stress.

Has he always been an night wetter or is this new?

Noodle

***I am sorry I have given you that perception. I guess I never really thought of it as me being the one that needed help, I wanted someone to come along with a to help my husband, one I had not thought of.***

Boy, did this ever jump out at me.

It's clear that you are not here looking for a way to get out of an abusive and destructive relatinship.

You are here looking for a magic solution to turn your abusive husband into a loving, caring, mature responsible man. You want desperately to find some way to change him into the husband you want, and you are not looking at anything else.

Some psychologists call this "magical thinking" - instead of dealing with the real situaiton, the person just keeps wishing and hoping that somehow, if she wants it enough, everything will change on its own -- and never takes any other action.

This sounds like exactly what you are doing.

The one message you will get over and over again here at MB, and from any competent mental health professional, is this:

YOU CANNOT CHANGE ANOTHER PERSON.
YOU CAN ONLY CHANGE YOURSELF.

As long as you are resigned to waiting it out until you find the magic pill that will change your husband, you are doomed to repeat this same day-to-day existence forever.

BUT - if you start looking for ways to change *yourself* so that you are no longer willing to let you and your children live in hell, you WILL find what you are looking for:

You will find peace.
You will find security.
You will find self-respect and pride.

Get the help you need -- that YOU need, instead of looking only at what you think your husband needs.

YOU need a safe place to live without being tortured by a man who runs his house like a POW camp, as someone here so rightly pointed out.

Enlist the help of your family, of the local women's hotline, and of the police, and stop trying to get "help" from your husband. That is just not ever going to happen, no matter how much you wish it would.

If wishes were horses, then beggars would ride.
Mulan

OK, KMEJ, you've taken the first step. You've thrown down the gauntlet and brought up the possibility of divorce.

Now it's crunch time.

How can you H tell you that there will be no divorce? That's YOUR decision to make. Basically, what H is telling you is that no matter how much crap he heaps upon you, you have to sit back and take it!

I know you are afraid. But...I think you need to approach this topic again. You told H once before that he had until March to make some important changes. Follow up with him now. Calmly say that you were about what you told him the other night - and that if he HASN'T made the changes that you want him to make byu the end of March, you'll consider your options - which will include divorce.

I'm not sure if your H has the ability or desire to change. You'll never know that, though, until you force his hand. His actions nee to have consequences. He needs to understand clearly that his behavior is wringing you dry of love for him.

If you are afraid of him...bring someone you trust in when you talk to him.

Also, I am interested to read that you work two jobs. Is it a day-shift, night-shift thing? Has H ever considered the possibility of another job?

If KMEJ is dealing with an abusive husband, she needs to be very careful about issuing ultimatums.
Abusers are generally not too happy to be told you are leaving them. Even having a friend present at the time will not protect her after the friend has left. She would need a very well-thought out plan in place to protect her.

KMEJ, how are you today? Did you get any rest this weekend? One of my children was a bedwetter until he was eight. I just got into the habit of waking him before I went to bed to use the potty, and limiting liquids for a couple hours before bedtime. They also make special nightime diapers for older children.

Why are you working two jobs when you have three small children to take care of? Is there any possibility you could quit the second job? A person can't think straight when they are so exhausted all of the time. I'm sorry if you've answered that question before.

Good day to all.
IT was a long weekend. I have a lot of questions to answer. Thank you to all for your support.

For starters I am doing okay today. It is very busy at work, but sometimes busy is good.

Friday was a horrible day for me. H was over tired and took it out injustly on me. On Saturday he just pretended that nothing happened (I let him so I am just as guilty), we went to a friends house to play cards. H played bowling on his phone the whole time was unsocial and kept saying everything was "gay". When I asked him to stop playing on his phone because I felt he was being rude, he stopped playing and started sending me pictures of all the girls that he works with that he has on his phone. I stopped checking my mail from him once I got the 4-5th picture. It was demeaning and I was hurt and upset. SO we left. When we got home I went to bed. No accident that night for DS4 (it goes in waves when he has accidents, goes months with none and then has several in a row- and he REFUSES to wear pull-ups, will take them off once I leave the room if I can even get them on- says he is a BIG BOY!). Got up Sunday morning, made breakfast, and spent time with kids. Watched the Vikings lose pathetically. H and I got into an arguement because he slept until 11:30, watched the Vikings game (I was okay with the Vikes game- as I watched it too, or tried, kept falling asleep) but when he switched to the packer game right way I got upset and asked him (not so nice I bet, do not remember). Anyway- long story rather short. I got upset with H because he knew I was tired, I was working on Laundry, and homework with kids, and H made lunch- only for himself- so the kids came and whined at me, and then H laughted when I got upset with him for being so selfish. Then when the neighbor kids came over and wanted the TV H let them have it and went upstairs to watch- called my cell wanting me to come upstairs and give him some "attention" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> . I told him no thank you, I have to much to do. H left for work. When he got home at 12:30 he woke me up so I would talk to his friend whom he had on the phone so that he could take a quick shower. I took the phone, told his friend goodbye and went back to sleep.

I work M-F 7-2:30 for the school district, and then Friday nights and Saturday days at a Resturant for money to put the kids in activities. Yes h is looking at getting a promotion next month which will mean more money, but also putting the kids in daycare, which will eat up the extra money and probably then some. However his thinking is it will give us more family time and it will help out relationship.

I do not really know.

If I missed your questions I am sorry, I will go back and reread everything later when I have a little more time.

<small>[ December 13, 2004, 01:42 PM: Message edited by: KMEJ ]</small>

KMEJ,

I don't know what to say. This is messed up beyond belief. You know what you need to do. You've heard it many, many, many, many, many, many, many times. Only YOU can do it.

The friends you played cards with..is that the couple that your H wants you to swing with?

My son had bedwetting problems also. We got through it basically by not making too a big a deal about it. It has a lot to with stress. But..part of it is biological, also.

By the way...it sounds to me like you are trapped at home. Can you find more time to yourself on weekends? If you left to go shopping for the day or something, H would pretty much HAVE to take care of the kids, right?

The friends you played cards with..is that the couple that your H wants you to swing with?

Yeah However that subject has been dropped due to my objection.

My son had bedwetting problems also. We got through it basically by not making too a big a deal about it. It has a lot to with stress. But..part of it is biological, also.

I think it is partially stress on the poor little guy. That and his daddy (H) wet the bed until he turned 10- so he might just be taking after him.


By the way...it sounds to me like you are trapped at home. Can you find more time to yourself on weekends? If you left to go shopping for the day or something, H would pretty much HAVE to take care of the kids, right?

H works weekends, and when he is home he thinks I should be home with him, otherwise we do not see eachother. He gets mad at me if I go out and leave him home with the kids. If I go out with out them I usually get a babysitter- a family member. I do not have much freetime. Tonight I made plans to take the kids to a friends for a playdate and we are making cookies so I am looking forward to that.

I do not work this Saturday as the Kids and I are going to my mothers house for Christmas. H refuses to join us, so he scheduled himself a double that day, said it is not important to him to attend and he would not go no matter what, that he hates my mom- why would he miss work to go over there? However he took the next two days off after that to go to an all night party at his friends house that I am not invited too.

Yeah AndrewA I know what I should do . However it is very scary.

KMEJ,

It sounds like you are not looking at a very merry Christmas. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Again, I don't know what to say....except that you need to find a way to overcome your fear and to do what you know you have to do for you and your children.

Having said that..you need to be safe, also.

im sorry to here about how he is treating you.
you need to inform him that those kids are 1/2 his responsibility too, and if he gets mad, oh well he can get glad in the same pants he got mad in. it seems the only time he shows you any respect is when you stand up for yourself.
hint hint

I am not sure I 100% I agree with you. Yeah he shows me respect when I stand up for myself, AFTER he does something to me, and then he feels badly. I am coninueing to stand my ground, and asking for him to do things, however he does not feel it is his responsibility. H thinks he does more then his share of the household duties and I just do not notice it, and he is hurt. So I am trying to watch for what he does do so that I can praise him in hopes that it will continue. However I feel like I have a 4th kid at times.

Something is not right.

KMEJ,

Yes, there is something wrong. Your husband is a sociopath.

He hates your family. He hates his father. He treats you and your kids like crap.

Other than himself, can you think of people in his life whom he treats with respect, compassion, tenderness or love?