i have to get back to work now. i have not heard from her today, so i dont know about the e-mail yet. thanks arjdad

ARJDAD---If your wife starts lurking here and she is interested in e-mailing with me, I will gladly give her my e-mail address!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

You can tell her that there are a lot of FWWs and WWs here, just like her. She can compare notes and see that what she is feeling is normal.

MYRTA

stan-ley, earlier you asked some questions, sorry i am so slow to respond, i see we have some things in common. i discovered the A by reading text message on her cell phone. i wasn't for sure, and the next day, she was flying out of state to visit a girl friend. i hired a p.i. to follow her, i assumed the OM was someone around here. p.i. told me she was alone at the airport, but overheard her talking about going to fla. that is several states away from where her friend lives. p.i. told me he has a guy that can get on her computer and find everything she has ever done on it and she will never know. 65 bucks an hour. i figured i had her caught, so i came home and hacked on it myself. i know she never thot i could do that, but she made it pretty easy. her password hints were easy to figure out. i found tons of e-mails and a notepad and printed about 2-3 hundred pages of this crap. i called her on her cell while she was still on the plane and told her it was an emergency to call me back, a.s.a.p. she called me from the airport and i told her i was in her office reading her e-mail. total shocked silence on her end. i told her i knew his name, address, wife's name, kid's ages and phone no. i told her if there was to be any hope of us working this out, she better be on the next plane home. she was on it.for the record , she was only going to be there overnight, and then fly to her friends for a few days. even her girlfriend knew nothing about her A, she wasn't expecting her til the next day. the OM wife had very serious brain tumor surgery a few days before my wife's trip, they had just discovered the tumor 3 weeks earlier. i have talked to the OM and he believes that he may be being punished by god for having the A. anyway, in her condition, i could not tell his wife. my wife had agreed to send him an e-mail to end the A, but i talked to him on the phone first. i told him she would be e-mailing him to tell him, and he told me he would save her the time. he sent her a short to the point e-mail telling her it was a mistake , it is over, and there can be no more contact. he told her if she tries to contact him, he would not even open her e-mail before deleteing it. i read his e-mail.since then[oct 19] there has been NC. again she is way above me on computers, but i trust her when i ask her point blank.i have one sister that knows, but that is it. in fact she and MC are the only two in kansas that know. i think now all i can do is try to be patient and hope for the best.you ant merta are an inspiration to me,she is a good women and you sound like a good guy.i think you are both fortunate to have each other.it sounds to me like you two are well on your way, congrats. i gotta go to d b-ball game, thanks for your help, arjdad

Arjdad:

I also saw quite a few emails on D-day, but not as many as you. I only saw about two weeks worth of emails.

I know your main concern is how long will the withdrawal be. This is related to the length of the affair and how deep the emotional connection was.

Did you see any emails where they talked about been soul-mates. Almost all of them do, not a biggy. Did you see emails where they professed deep love for each other. To be honest in my case the emails about love where mostly from the OM to my wife, however, Myrta wrote one particular email that was devastating to my ego. After reading that email I thought for sure I had lost her. IN any event, the love expression in the emails may give you an idea of what to expect.

You must also remember, that sometimes everything that is written in there is quite shallow and authored by folks who are cunning each other and presenting their best side. Folks in affairs typically lie to the spouse, but they also lie to the OP quite a bit and make outrageous statements.

I suggest you don’t put any weight to what the emails say. If what my wife wrote in her emails was true she would be long gone and enjoying life with OM. Far from the truth life with OM would be her worst nightmare! You see these OMs are only good in an affair; in a real open relationship they are LOUSY.

It sounds like you are putting your foot down. Simply tell her it will not be pretty if her kids and immediate family know she is an adulterer. Be firm and tell her you expect cooperation to rebuild the marriage.

She may try to make contact even if it is to talk in a non-romantic way. Keep your eyes open.

I am glad you talked to OM. I never had the chance to do so and to be honest I avoided doing that to please Myrta who was terrified of a confrontation. Trust me I would had said a couple of nasty things with out obscenity of course; in that way the remarks are more effective.

stan-ley-- thanks for the input. it seems you have been right where i am at. your insight is truly appreciated.actually, most of thier e-mails and computer discussions were just like two friends talking. but you are right, whenever sex or love came up, it was always the OM that started it. occasionally, he would reminence quite graphically things they had done, and this is something i wish i had never read.slowly, i am trying to forget them.i don't want to "threaten" to tell the kids and other family she is an adulter, because i want her to want to work on our M on her own, not feel manipulated into it. make sense? i don't know.tho eventually, i will expect her cooperation to rebuild. i am glad i talked w/OM also, and made it veryclear that there was to be no further contact. because of his wife's condition, i don't think he would risk it. i think he knows that i would drive 20 hours to get there to tell her in person if i had to. but i don't think that will be necasarry. again thanks for your insight and encouragement, and keep up the good work w/ myrta........arjdad

ARJDAD----How was your day today with your wife???

Myrta

Arjdad:

All of us have the "MOVIES".

We tend to see exotic lovemaking and the images enter our minds unexpectedly. I think it is best to see them as often as possible so they don’t have the effect of profound hopelessness (knowing that they can never be reversed). At times you may also imagine that the love making was mediocre; however the truth is that we will never know.

This is what worked for me quite well:

After I read the accolades to each others performance and the hot chat I told my wife that if I ever made love to another woman like that I could never come back to the marriage. In other words “if I ever give my heart like that to another woman I am getting a divorce ASAP“. If I am truly in love like that it would be hell and ultimate hypocrisy to stay in the marriage. Myrta then said that she did not want a divorce and that she loved me. To me that means that what I imagined to be a great romance and exotic love making was nothing more than a 3rd rate B movie------ her decision to stay in the marriage tells me so. Myrta may not agree with this, but this is how I rationalize the romance.

The OM kept referring to that infamous email Myrta wrote him to entice Myrta to leave the marriage. The post D-day contact with OM was about him trying to break-up the marriage. I will never know what words were exchanged, but my wife finally had the courage to say the right thing and the OM lost the motivation to call again. I suggest you emphasize NC with your wife. IMO, breakage of NC is VERY common after D-day. In fact most WWs will find a way to make contact to try to tidy up the break-up of the affair. Your wife may tell you she is sorry for the harm she has done to you, but she is also sorry for the well being of the OM. It is repulsive, but that is the way it is.

Ask Wife for the passwords of her email account. Ask for any passwords for special secret accounts; most of the time there are several email accounts.

myrta- yesterday with my wife was ok, we did not spend much time together though. she was still not feeling to well, so i took our son to watch big sis play ball alone. no big deal. but she wasnt so sick that she couldnt work.on the way home, me and son went thru drivethru and brought home dinner. after we put our son to bed, she went back to work, i was really tired and told her i was going to bed. it was early. but it was a nice "good night" not acting like i was mad about her working or anything. hopefully we can spend time together to nite......stan-ley, luckily, the OM never tried to talk my w into leaving me. i think he knew that she wouldn't and that he really would not either. he has 2 young kids he wants and needs to see everyday.why would he want to change anything? he had it all <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> but he actually used to ask her what i could do to make her happy. go figure. nothing as long as he was in the picture. gotta go, arjdad

myrta- tonight i plan on talking to my wife about joining us on this board. ialso plan to tell her about your offer to talk tto her one on one. thank you for that. i took off work a little early today, and did some christmas shopping. i told her when i got home that our son had got her a present. she laughed and asked if he knew what it was.[ he does, he told me what he wanted to give her]. when he gets off the bus, i am going to help him wrap it up. anyway, then she said " i don't know what to get you, i have no ideas". she then said "i am having trouble getting in the christmas spirit/mood". i suppose i should have known this, but it still hit me kind of hard <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> i am still hoping that we will have a good time together and we can start working on our M. i have been doing a good job of backing off since saturday, and it is hard. sometimes it seems like i see glimpses of my old wife back <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> and then, back down again <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> we do have MC friday, so i just concentrate on meeting her EN'S she will let me, and avoid all LB'S until then.thans for listening,.....arjdad

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">stan-ley, luckily, the OM never tried to talk my w into leaving me. i think he knew that she wouldn't and that he really would not either. he has 2 young kids he wants and needs to see everyday.why would he want to change anything?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Perhaps this OM has a conscience (is there such a thing?). This is very good news! It probably means they were not too serious or perhaps the affair never got real deep. Post D-day Myrta’s OM wanted her to get a divorce, but I suspect he was very foggy. How do you know they never made plans? At some point my wife was worried that OM was going to lose it because she wanted to stay in the marriage. I was worried too! You never know what a disturbed person in love can do in a moment of despair. This is the hidden tragic danger of affairs--- sometimes they end with the death of the BH or the BY murdering the OM, ect. Why would any man risk a relationship with a married woman? This is all due to poor contact with reality. And sadly Myrta’s OM had a poor reality assessment.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> he had it all but he actually used to ask her what i could do to make her happy. go figure. nothing as long as he was in the picture. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hmm---- OMs have a technique where they tell the WW what they would do if they were the BH. For example a WW may say “my H does not pay much attention to me”. Obviously the latter is a universal line to let the OM they are available. Then OM may say something like this----------”If I was your husband I would worship you, how could anyone not pay attention to someone as beautiful as you.” OMs also present themselves as noble helpful human beings who only want the best for their fellow man. It is all BS, OMs are among the most selfish people in the planet and they are cunning individuals. They generally talk real smooth and always say what WWs want to hear.

Myrta is now completely out of then fog with no withdrawal. She is also very remorseful. I think she could provide excellent support to your wife. It is possible your wife needs to say some things that can only be said to another woman who went through the same issues.

As a man I also got great support and insight from other FWWs in this board---- there are quite a few here and there.

Did you get all the passwords? Remember, she has to earn your trust by being an open book!

stan-ley,- i know that the OM'S are always full of bs, just saying what they know the WW wants to hear. but i think it was pretty serious, it lasted 15 months. i agree that myrta could help her out alot, but i dont know if she is ready. i hope to talk to her about it tonite.she is so busy w/work, it seems that she works all the time. i dont know if she is using that for an excuse to avoid joining us here, or not. i do know that she is swamped. she told me she is going to try to get less work, but she hasnt yet. also, i am afraid the holiday seoson is going to be hard on her.it is 8+ weeks since dd and nc, so maybe the fog will start to clear and we can make some progress. another thing i have a question on, she said in MC, that she has been unhappy for quite a while, way before the A. i think that is true, but could it also be some fog talk? when she said that, it was just 1-2 weeks after DD. i think she really was somewhat unhappy, altho i didnt know it at the time, but it is not like we never had any good times. i know looking back that i did alot of LB'S, but i didnt know what that was at the time. since DD i have completely changed in that regard. no more sarcasm, which i am really good at, and she told MC that she could see the difference.i just hope that she can come to a place where she wants to try and make this better then ever. hopefully, she will talk to myrta....thanks, arjdad

ARJDAD---Hi, I hope everything is going well. I think it would be a great idea if your wife would join us here. She can get a lot of support and of course a lot of dissaproval (I hate it that at the beginning after my DD) from some posters here. Some people are very tough here with the WWs. But I guess they just want to make us see and realized the horrid thing we were doing to our husbands.
Do tell her that she is welcome to talk to me anytime she wants either on e-mail or by phone. We can talk,even if we dont know each other. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I was a bit turn-off by Christmas this year,just like your wife. I couldn to get myself to decorate the house and buy presents. NOw I am more into it. Getting really enthusiastic now. I think holidays bring you more in touch with the reality of bad actions, especially Christmas. Just be supportive to her, without been pushy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> .

She needs to work a bit less too, so she can get more involved with the family,with christmas. I hope she can do that!!

Take care...

MYRTA

mryta- i don't know if my wife could take alot of disaprroval or scolding right now. also i don't guess i should really be calling her a Fww because there has been NC since DD. i don't feel like i am competeing with the OM, i am just trying to get her thru w/drawal so we can work on us. she and the OM both know they could never be together.she says she has been unhappy for a while before the A, so i dont really know what to do. it does seem better since i stopped lb's and started trying to meet en's that she will let me. also i have backed off and given her more space.i am hopeful i can get her to talk to you, i think she really needs to talk to someone, and someone who has been in her shoes might really get thru to her. i love her to much to quit now. thanks for your help,.... arjdad

myrta,-- also, would i be pressuring her to much if i ask her to put the same amout of effort into uor marriage as she does in her work? i may ask her that at the MC friday

ARJDAD-- Thats the term that they use here. I dont like to call myself that either.

Maybe right now is not such a good idea, for her to get scolded by some people here. YOu are right.

At the beginning I cried a lot with what some people said to me. I got into some heated words with some too. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> . But it was because they were telling me the truth but I did not want to accept the truth yet.

Please do tell her about me. She and I can e-mail only, until she feels stronger to post here.

MYRTA

ARJDAD-- I am a stay home mom, right now. At the beginning after DD, I would get completely inmersed, busy with things around the house to avoid contact with my husband. You see, the guilt makes you do that. Even if you tell yourself, that you should be more available to your husband, you just cannot do it. The commands of your mind dont match your actions.
Thats her way of dealing with things. Getting very busy.

MYRTA

myrta,- wow what great friends you and stanley have been to me! thank you both <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> it is funny you would say that about getting busy to avoid me, because just tonight, we were fixing dinner together, and i told her that because of her working all the time, i felt like she was avoiding me. i told her i know you are really busy with work, but that is how i feel.later i told her if she needed to work tonight i understand, and i am ok with it. she is in her office working right now.giving her my "approval" to work is part of giving her space, right? i am still somewhat pressuring her to unload some of her work.it is very hard for me to not just go up to her and hug on her, but now is not the time, right? especially when she seems upset, i just want to comfort her. thanks for being such a great support team to me. hopefully, someday to my wife also.....arjdad

myrta,-- but it has been 8 weeks since DD. hopefully the w/drawal is weakening and the fog is lifting. occasionally, i think i see positive signs...arjdad

ARJDAD- yOU ARE doing really great, by giving her space..She needs it right now. Right now she is confused. She still misses the OM, but at the same time she knows it will never work. she does not want to lose you, and your kids. She is also sad, angry, depressed,everything at once.

So if you overwhelmed her with love and attention, she will feel like rejecting you. Right now she feels unworthy of your love, she is not ready to receive all that attention just yet.
I did not believe my husbands love at the beginning.

MYRTA

myrta,- by giving her space, it feels like i am giving her the cold shoulder and the silent treatment. then i am afraid she will forget or not realize how much i love her and want us to be together. i have told her that i don't want her to think i am giving silent treatment and she says she does'nt, but that is how i feel. i guess to say that i am insecure at this point would be quite the understatement.i would be interested to hear stan-ley's thoughts on this as well. tomorrow night, my sister is watching son so wife and i can go watch daughter play ball alone. about 45 minute drive each way, i am looking forward to time alone with her just to visit and talk.we both really enjoy watching the girls play ball.i definately don't feel right now like i am smothering her, so i guess i should just keep doing what i am doing? thanks,...arjdad