arjdad,

I hope I'm not confusing you with my opinion, together with Myrta's and Stanley's. I hope that you could get something out of ALL of our advice. Everyone approaches things differently, and every situation is a little different. How we all react differs too. You have to do what you believe is best, although sometimes we all need a push!

I said the same thing in MC about time. I was so depressed that I couldn't bear thinking of ANY decision-making! If that's where your wife's head is still at, then it's no wonder that she's still wallowing in it. Is she in IC?? Maybe it would be helpful. She sounds depressed. Is she able to sleep? Is she eating? These things can affect her attitude too. I was barely able to function until a few weeks ago!

So, keep on asking questions here, and we'll all try to help. In the meantime, do what you think is best for you and for her. You'll get there...

CC

buttercup-- you are not confusing me, i truly appreciate the different perspectives.i understand that each situation is unique. there are no easy answers.she is able to eat and sleep, and she doesn't think that she is depressed, tho i think she may be.MC thought AD's might just cover up the pain and prolong it if she didn't deal with it now. she doesn't seem very depressed so i guess i agree. i think what would be best, is for me to keep trying to meet her EN'S, and avoid LB'S until after the holidays and then see what happens. i will discuss this with MC wed. alone. thanks again,....arjdad

i have got to call it a night. if i go to bed right now, i can sleep 5hours and 45 minutes. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> thanks for the help, i will check in the morning...arjdad

Arjdad:

This is what I did when Myrta was foggy:

She was not highly motivated to talk. So I started to email her MB literature. I would copy and paste the important stuff and send her the email.

An amazing thing happened Arjdad! Myrta read everything I emailed to her about MB. Not only that, but she has a photographic memory and was able to repeat the MB principles to me word by word whenever we would have a discussion. She remembered the material better than I did. So there she was assimilating all this stuff even though she was foggy and confused about the affair and her feelings for me.

Then one day I sent her replies from many on the board that were highly upset about the fact that Myrta had broken NC. Myrta got real mad at what they were saying about her and on her own joined the MB discussion board. Imagine my surprise when I logged in from work and saw Myrta’s reply in one of the threads. I knew then that we were on the right track to recovery.

Arjdad, it takes a lot of willpower for a wayward spouse to comeback to the marriage after a romantic affair, particularly if the emotional connection and SF were very satisfying and rewarding. It is not a piece of cake to love the spouse again just like that. Remember, she disconnected herself from you to make a bond with OM. Now she has to do the opposite and it may seem harder because the affair was stopped at a critical moment when romance was at its peak. However, she has to start somewhere------- at least she should try baby steps and then before you know it voila!

Have her read these replies! Tell her to post over here. She will be anonymous, there is nothing to lose!

ArJDAD--I do agree with CC that everyone approaches things differently. Of course, everyone is different. But in some instances, the WW or WH needs a little bit of help or a push to react. And I think your wife is too confident that she can take as long as she wants, because you are not going anywhere. She knows you love her, you are staying with her, despite what she did. That is LOVE with capital letters indeed. But ARJ, there is only so much a human being can take from an indifferent spouse. You are in need of attention, you are in need of affection, you are need of some kind of something that she still has feelings somewhere there,even if they are still deep in her. ARJ, I was in the fog like three months, but yet, I always knew I loved my husband. And I wanted to show him more, I just could not be very loving, but he saw that I was trying, even with all his complaining.

Shortly after our DD, I got very hypersexual with him, but then my libido when down all the way!!! I could not, or want to have SF with him. I got really,really down,depressed, that was my worst, it lasted a couple of months. Then slowly the desires came back to me. But all thru my depression, my fog, my worst behaviour with him I showed my husband that I did not want to lose him. Do you see what I am trying to tell you? And the t imes, that he would threaten to leave me, divorce me, be indifferent to me, those were the days, that my fog will lift momentarily and I would get scared and try to convince him of my love. I was and still am, terrified of him leaving me, of my kids finding out.

Of course like CC says, you know your wife the best, you know better than anyone what approach would work the best with her. Myself, I dont like my husband to treat me with indifference, it scares me. Maybe she is different from me, and she will like it. But I dont think so!! I think no one likes to be ignored,no one likes indifference.

Take care

MYRTA

i think when i get home today i am going to tell her that i am starting to resent the fact that i seem to be the only one trying. i said that once at counseling and she got a little mad, said she was trying. i guess maybe she is, but it doesnt seem like she is very hard. i feel like saving the M should be OUR number one priority. but i also dont know if i should just hold off any talking until after the holidays? any thoughts? i will check back later, thank you guys for listening to me trying to think this thru,..arjdad

arjdad,

If you feel that it's important enough to talk to her now, do it. You don't have to lay on the guilt or be harsh, so don't worry about putting off this talk if you need to do it. Your feelings matter too.

I still don't understand some things. Is your W being AT ALL affectionate with you? Does she hold your hand? Does she hug you? Does she indicate AT ALL that she still cares about you? See, even through the fog and the severe withdrawal and depression, I still reached out to my H and we still had somewhat of a connection. I couldn't be sexual with him for a long time, but he knew I wanted him in my life. If she's not giving you any clues, then I agree that you have to ask her where her head is at. I don't know that I'd tell her what your needs are; I'd just try to find out what she wants and take it from there. It's hard, with the holidays upon us and all... Play it by ear, and listen to your heart. It's not fair for you to be in such pain either.

CC

Arjdad:

I must tell you that my wife Myrta is unique in that she was motivated to make the marriage work. But, the fog can be very hard to overcome and in the case of some WWs it can have a devastating effect. The book surviving an affair says that there is hope even when the spouse is very recalcitrant and willing to leave the marriage. Therefore success is always possible even when the WW does not want to cooperate. Don’t be disappointed because your wife is not doing what Myrta did--- as I said- she is rather unique in that regard.

My concern is that you seem too timid with this. If you need to talk------- do it now. Get these things off your chest. Try to communicate with her. Make her feel safe and see if she can use you as a confidant even though she was being unfaithful to you. For obvious reasons Myrta could not talk about the affair with her sisters or friends. In the end she had to talk to me about how she felt and what was going on. Your wife needs to talk and you need to talk. MAKE SURE SHE IS NOT IN CONTACT!. This will make the withdrawal endless. Once you get her thru the withdrawal you can start to trust her. During withdrawal and fog you cannot trust since WWs will do wacky things (they are not themselves).

Marriages fail not because of the affair, but because the spouses don’t know what to do to make the marriage better.

buttercup,-- if i reach out to hold her hand, she will. or if i ask her if i can have a hug, she will, until i pull away. but she does not initiate it,ever. she feels bad for the way she has hurt me, she said so in MC, so does that mean she cares about me? i think i should give her time thru the holidays, and then maybe set some sort of timetable for her to decide what she wants? thanks for the advice, i am playing it by ear, but i feel tone deaf <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> ...arjdad........................................stan-ley,-- thanks for your insight. i agree thatmyrta is unique, and my wife will obviously not respond just like her. i wish she would tho. i also agree that i am to timid, i think the wife AND i are both conflict-avoiders. i am just scared of pushing her to far away to ever get her back. i know that i need to talk yto her, and try to get her to opewn up to me,i just don't know if the timing is right. sometimes she gives me little hints that maybe she is starting to come around, and that is very encouraging. i will talk to MC about these things wed. i am sure she is not in contact, thats why i was hoping the w/drawal would be easing up after 9 weeks. trying to be patient, struggling with that. thanks for the input and support, arjdad

myrta, stan-ley, and buttercup,-- let me get your opinion on this. last wek at MC, the MC ask wife if she was angry at me, OM, herself, or the world in general. she said she was angry with herself for getting into this situation. does this sound like remorse? and is that a good thing? thanks all,you three have really carried me lately, and i appreciate the help more then i can say <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ...arjdad

ARJDAD--Hi, I think you sound more upbeat today, I am happy for that.
That sounds like she is feeling bad with herself for what she did. It does sound like remorse to me. When I look at myself, I cannot believe that I did such a thing!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> . NOt in a million years, I would had thought I was capable of doing that to my husband.
ArJ- I agree with my husband. I think you contain yourself too much in talking to your wife. I think you should talk to her,if you want to, it does not matter if is before the holidays. YOu should do it, you probably can have a better Christmas if you talk and get whats bothering out of your chest.

By the way, what happened with the e=mails that you wrote her last week? Did she like receiving them? Did she reply to them?

Take care..

MYRTA

myrta,-- actually in MC one time early on she said that she never thought she could/would have an affair. i am feeling a little better to day, and am still considering talking to her tonight. wife and daughters are going shopping when the girls get home, me and "j", the boy, home alone. i like time alone with just me and him, it will be fun, and i like the girls shopping and spending time w/ mom. the wife seems maybe to be a little more receptive to my hugging/ kissing her cheek today, so i am feeling better. don't know if she really feels that way or if i am wishful thinking, but right now ,i need optimism. as far as the e=mails go, she did receive them, but i had to ask her to find out <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> she is so busy, she told me she doesn't hardly ever check her e-mail anymore. when i got home to day, i gave her a hug from behind,[she was sitting in her computer chair] and told her she has been working ALOT lately. she said" i know, and i am not very happy about it" in kind of a down voice. i don't know, but i took that as a good sign. i think maybe i should continue with patience thru the holidays? i love her, but eventually, she has to want this to work.....thanks again for help,...arjdad

ARJ--It sounds like she is feeling a bit better <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . Maybe the fog is lifting a bit. She does not pull away when you hug her? If she doesn't, thats really good. Yes, do talk or at least try to talk to her tonight and see what she says. Also mention MB again. She might be more receptive!!
I hope you have a good time with your little boy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . What does he like to play? He likes video games? What is Santa bringing him?

Take care..

MYRTA

myrta,-- she doesn't pull away when i hug her, but sometimes she doesn't hug back much. today she seemed to hug back on my arms, as i was behind her. i feel more positive right now then i have in a while, so i think i will talk to her tonight and mention MB <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> i always have a good time with "j". it is a school night so we will do homework, dinner and a shower, then play and read books. i usually read him 1-2 books before bed, altho he can read a little now and we encourage him to read to us. all he has ask for is a espn gamestation, it has six sports to play. we already have bought one, it is hidden in the attic over the garage. he needs something inside to burn up his energy in the winter, he is very energetic. thanks,..arjdad

ARJDAD--Well, I think that your wife is progressing very well. The first three months I was kinda of unresponsive too with my husband. So, I think she is doing well. And I can feel that you are so much more upbeat today <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . Its very important for her to see that too. When I saw my husband all down, it would scared me, because it looked like he had given up hope for us. But, by all means talk to her tonight. Dont feel that you have to wait until after Christmas. Do it now, if you want to.

Winter for little boys is way too long to stay inside. They get so restless, with all that energy. But if he is interesting in reading thats great. All my kids loved to read when they were that age, and they still do. Reading can be so fun too. Is so cute when they start to read <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> I miss that!!

Take care ARJ!!

MYRTA

myrta,-- i am more upbeat today <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> alot of the reason for that is the support i am getting from you, stan-ley, and buttercup.you guys are great. seems strange to consider people i have never met as truly good friends, but that is how i feel about everybody here, especially you three. she just came out of her office to get ready to go shopping. she said she was going to take a "fast shower". i reached out to give her a hug, and she stepped towards me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> and hugged me back. then i said when it comes to her taking showers, the words "fast" and "shower" are usually not used in the same sentence. she laughed and gave me a playful swat on the rear <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> that is more playful then she has acted in a long time.but that just confuses me as to wether i should talk to her or not. the main reason i was going to talk was because i didn't see any effort or positive signs, but i think i may have been looking for to big of a sign? i have been cool and indifferent since we talked about that a week ago saturday.another question, should i always try to be "upbeat " and positive around her, or should i let her know that i am still hurting to? i have not cried in front of her in at least a month, except at MC. thanks for the advice,..arjdad

ARJDAD---LOL, maybe you were looking for too big of a sign . And at the beginning that its impossible. Everything moves kind of slow. That playfullness is a great sign!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />
Well, you cannot be like you are in cloud nine all the time, because what happened was very serious and she has to know, there are grave consecuences because of what she did. So, of course, she has to know,be reminded, not very harshly of course, that you will not accept that ever again (A). But being upbeat is very nice for us FWWs, it makes us feel better.

I know what you said about people in this board. I feel the same way. You feel some kind of connection just from what each person writes. And you feel closer to some than others. You are one of my favorite posters here now. I hope that what I tell you is helping you somewhat. I know my husband has suffered a lot from what I did, and I know you are too.

MYRTA

myrta,-- what you are telling me is helping a great deal! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> and she knows that there can never be another A. at MC, shortly after DD, the MC asked her if she would ever do this again now that she can see and feel the pain that an A causes. wife said, "never again, i would get a divorce first before starting another R. so i guess as long as we are together, she won't. i have to trust her, and for the most part, i do. i don't think i act like i am on cloud nine, but i try not to mope around acting all depressed either. somewhere in the middle. she knows how bad she has hurt me, i just want to forgive her and us move on. thanks for encouraging....arjdad

myrta,-- by the way, i have been meaning to ask you if you don't mind, how long has it been since your DD.it sounds like you guys are well on the road to recovery, and that in itself is encouraging to me. thank you both for your support. arjdad

ArJdad---Thats good that she said that to you and to the marriage counselor, that she would never have another affair while married. I said that to my husband too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . We have many similarities as you can see.

Our DD was on June 1,2004. I mantained contact with OM for like three months after that. Just phone contact,no physical contact, and I saw him in person once. My last physical encounter with OM was in May 2004. We are a bit more ahead of you guys, maybe a couple of months? The OM knows my parents back in my country and he is trying to befriend them more and he even offered a job to my nephew and it looks like he is going to accept it. So he is trying to send me some sublimimal messages there. Also last week he invited to a private chat room online two of my daughters <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> so that is kind of scary. But my husband is not worry, he says. It worries me a bit though. I would die if he says anything to my girls. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I am glad I am helping you some ArJ. I wish your wife would come to MB so I and others can talk to her too.

Take care.

MYRTA

<small>[ December 20, 2004, 07:34 PM: Message edited by: Myrta ]</small>