</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I obliged whenever he wanted it. Didn't make us any closer. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Actually it probably fooled him into thinking the marriage was OK.

In my case my wife never initiated and I only questioned her lack of desire a couple of times and did not make a big deal out of it. Instead I assumed we were moving into a different stage of marriage. If I had been more selfish and in tune with my wife I would have insisted on an explanation right away. In fact she might have confessed if I had questioned her SF paucity on a regular basis.

I will be honest Buttercup. I am a lot like Lemon man in his approach and I would not be here if did not get SF and affection. As it is I go crazy after three days. When Myrta is on her period I am dying inside. I cannot explain why my body reacts this way, but I cannot fake what I feel.

Stanley,

You didn't have to explain yourself there; I already can figure out your needs! My H is very similar. He'd like it daily, but MY needs have changed. My body is changing and my hormones are out of whack. I have more responsibilities and worries now too, so I'm not looking for SF every day.

As far as my H goes, when we'd go for a week without SF, he'd ask what was wrong. No guessing games there! And, during the A, even though we had SF enough, he still knew that something was "off". When I confessed the A to him, he already was 99.9% sure (he was just too confused because it made no sense!). The SF we had all throughout the A did make him feel a little more secure, but it didn't cover over anything.

Hope you're feeling better today! You're back at work? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

CC

hi all, i am back after a day in town with our 13 yo d. she got contact lenses today.i am super dad. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> i also had remote start and keyless entry put on wife's van as a surprise late present. i couldn't get it done before now.anyway i have been thinking alot today about everything,and i feel so confused as to what i am going to do. i have told her all along that i want us to be together, and i forgive her, and i want the M to be better, but sometimes i don't know if i can do all that.if i tell her about my needs, and that i am ready whenever she wants to initiate, if things aren't back to normal in 4 months we might have to re-evaluate our M, is it 4 months from DD, or right now?`i know i sound like a broken record,but i am so discouraged by what i perceive as a lack of effort on her part. that said, she has reached out and touched my hand in passing, and an occasional friendly hug. i do still think that i need to give more time and space, it is confusing. i think i will talk to MC about a time table for progrss next time i see her. stan-ley, i would like to have SF every dat as well, but we have never been like that, so how do i start now? i know i can't go on like this forever. i am trying to get up the courage to talk to her tonite about some of these things. what have i got to lose? i just don't want to push her away. i just have to find a way to get thru the holidays , get back to work, and play it by ear from there. i know i love her and want to be with her, and i need her to want that to. thanks for listeningto me whine,...arjdad

arjdad,

By all accounts, it sounds like you're progressing wonderfully. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> You're being thoughtful and patient and weighing out every option. That's good. I hope you're taking time away from all of these thoughts every once in a while too! Try not to get too overwhelmed by it all! Play it by ear and go with your heart.

It's a good idea to speak about your needs and a timetable to the MC. I said 4 months, because it's already been 2 months. Our MC said that I should have "up to a year" without my H constantly pressuring me for SF. That's a very long time, and it's only recently that I've even considered to resume SF. It all depends on the person.

It's good that you want to be with your W in an intimate way, but for now you should enjoy that she is at least being affectionate with you. It all takes time. Just try not to smother her, but if you feel like it, go ahead and make the first move. Good luck!

CC

P.S. How cool are you? You got your 13 year old contacts?? My 14 year old son has been BEGGING us for them, but we said "no" because he can't even take care of his eyeglasses properly! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

ArjDad---Sounds like you are having doubts again about what to do..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> ....Four months is a very short time to think that everything will get back to normal. My husband and I had been in recovery for almost seven months, and we are not "normal" yet. We still get lots ofups and downs and intimacy for him does not feel completely right yet. So, considering how your wife is behaving with you, I would say is going to take her much longer than four months.

But I think its a good idea, for you to talk to her, and put some kind of tentative time frame for the progress in the relationship. YOu could put little "goals" with each other. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
It could be like a little game between you two. Like when three months come, you go in a "date", at four months, you cuddle with each other while watching a movie at home. Little things like that to make you and her at ease with each other.

Thats really cool you got contacts for your daughter, being so young like that. MY 23 year old daughter, got them yesterday for the FIRST time!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> . She could not put them on before!!! Was too scared! Now she is so excited because she has a 20-20 vision all the time! Arjdad,,,you are a very nice dad indeed. It seems like you are so patient and sweet with your children. Thats very nice to be that way. Kudos to YOU!!!

I hope you are doing well today. Take care....

MYRTA

...buttercup,-- i am trying to be patient and thoughtful, and i know i need to weigh my options.i do try to take a mental break from this when i can, but it is hard. how can i think of anything else? this is my whole life we are talking about. it has been so long since SF, that i know i can wait longer, i just need to know that it will work out right and be worth the wait. i also am trying not to smother her. i tried to make the first move yesterday, just with a passionate kiss, and it was not very well received.i know it feels awkward, but i wonder if guilt is bothering her. if it is guilt, i just want her to get over it, so we can move on.......................................................myrta,- i don't really think 4 month's is very long in this sitchuation either, but it sure feels like it.we are supposed to have a date this week, but she may be too busy. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> i ask her the other day and she said ok, but i don't know if she remembers. i think if she doesn't mention it to me, i won't mention it to her either. don't want her to feel pushed. she still says after the 1st, she will not be working this many hours. maybe then she can put more time and effort into our M.i really feel pretty good about the overall picture,but sometimes lose focus. i do think that we are starting to fell a little more at ease with each other... thanks you two for being so encouraging, i know some people think my sitch. is going to slow, but they say " good things come to those who wait". i hope they are right. thanks again,...arjdad

Arj,

Slow and steady wins the race bud. It sounds like you are making some progress. Keep it going and continue to improve yourself, cuz as you know, no matter what happens between you and your WW you still have to live with yourself.

Native

arjdad,

Hmm, guilt? Maybe. After 2 months I was still deep in withdrawal and fog. I didn't reach guilt until about 6 months (well, I had little spasms of guilt here and there). I was sad and depressed mostly, so if he reached out to me, I just wasn't ready to commit to fulfilling any of his SF's completely.

You sound like you're doing everything right. You're a caring dad and you sound like a supportive guy. I'm sorry that your SF's aren't being met, and it sounds like it's getting to you, so I'd talk to the MC and then to your W. Good luck. It'll all work out. It just takes time and a lot of patience (and maybe cold showers? LOL).

CC

arj,

You have been getting some good advice. Yes, time and patience are key but so is honesty. You see if you continue to be frustrated and you continue to get little or no effort, your love bank will empty and you will NOT be able to make it through recovery.

I realize that Myrta and Buttercup are giving you their wisdom from the perspective of your W and that is invaluable, but it is also true she MUST start to do something to encourage you and help you. Buttercup's H is a bit of an anomoly but even he will run out of patience with Buttercup if she did not/does not start to meet his needs regularly, and I don't mean just sex.

Your W needs to know your feelings and concerns. You cannot make her respond to them, but she needs to know how you feel. The true but sad thing your marriage is now in the real danger zone. The A is supposedly over, but she is NOT making the marriage a priority, she is focusing on herself. This is not unusual, but it is the time when many BS's just throw their hands up and leave.

It is for this reason that I hammered on Myrta so hard, and Buttercup as well. This is the dangerous time, and it is the time when the BS runs out of love thus ending all possibility for rebuilding the marriage.

All you can do is be patient, but be honest with your feelings as well. You have really done all you can do until she decides to get off of deadcenter and join you in rebuilding the marriage. Do NOT be dramatic enough to think that if you decide to leave she will suddenly realize what she lost and fall in love with you. It does not work that way. IF you decide to leave realize it will very likely end the marriage, so give it your best shot by being honest. That way she will KNOW what finally drove you to quit if you in fact decide to do that.

It is a DJ to think the BS will always be there for the WS even if things start out with the BS trying to keep the marriage together. It is also a DJ to think the WS really does care if they cannot get around to doing something to help rebuild the marriage.

I don't have much time tonight but I would also like you to read SKM's Chronicles, they can be found by searching recovery for "Chronicles". That will give you an idea of time lines for the WS. Four months is still early, but it is about time she started to show "some" interest.

Must go, but hang in there.

God Bless,

JL

<small>[ December 27, 2004, 09:35 PM: Message edited by: Just Learning ]</small>

thank you all for your input. i think i am probably on the right track here. i said on a earlier post that maybe i was looking for to big of a sign. i think that my wife is starting to show little signs of maybe coming around.not nearly as much or as often as i would like, but i don't know what to expect, i have never been here before.i know i need to be honest with her and let her know how i feel and what my needs and expectations are, but i admit i am scared, i guess scared of pushing her away. i don't know if she is feeling guilty or not, i do think sometimes she is still in w/d. should i mention my needs to MC before wife? we don't go until next week, and i was hoping to get up the nerve to say something to her this week. but i also think maybe i should wait til the holidays are over with? whats a few more days?....just learning, thanks for joining in, i appreciate hearing different views, share yours with me anytime,thanks arjdad

JL,
Good to see you posting! I missed you! Just wanted to add that even though I wasn't concentrating on my H's needs enough, and it was an exceptional situation that he still remained so close to me and supportive, he did remind me of his needs and he was/is very verbal.

CC

good morning all, i slept in a bit today. wife stayed up working until3:30 a. m., so when 6 y.o. son woke up, i took him downstairs to watch t.v. and play games. i will let her sleep. i know she is way behind at work. i have been struggling alot about telling her about my needs to be intimate with her. i know it feels awkward and uncomfortable to her, but it does for me also.should i tell her this? i don't see those feelings going away on there own, i think we are just going to have to work thru them. i feel my self getting very frustated and impatient.i don't think that is a good thing, but it is how i feel.i guess i should tell her that i can't/won't go on like this forever. but except for limited physical contact, we have been getting along great. dtill no LB'S, and trying to be patient and meet her EN'S. this week is hard because i am off work and the kids are home from school, and she is working 10-15 hours a day. i jjust feel a little angry today about the whole sitch. she is the one who had the affair, not me. why should i be trying so hard to save a relationship with someone who did this to me? i never thought i would look forward to going back to work after a week off. thanks for listening,..arjdad

as the day goes on, i feel resentment building.not sure why. just the other day, i was so hopeful. darn this roller coaster. maybe i should not be so optimistic. maybe she is just waiting to leave untilafter the holidays? i know i am not thinking clearly here, i just need to "talk".i know i have to tell her how i feel and not let resentment grow. that is hard for me. i think lack of communication was/is our no.1 problem. that and we are both also conflict-avoiders, can you tell? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> i am still trying to ride this out til after the holidays and then see what happens.any one have any thoughts today? thanks, arjdad.

by the way, just learning mentioned "DJ'S", can someone tell me what that is? i can't find it in all my computer knowledge <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> thanks, arjdad
p.s..... i hope everyone is doing o.k.today <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

DJ's = Disrespectful Judgements

AD, ....thanks for the help. i was kidding about computer knowledge, i have learned more about computers and typing in the last two+ months then i ever knew <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> .still struggling thru the day, watching the kids race nascar on ps2
arjdad

as the day goes on, i feel resentment building.not sure why.

If you don't talk to your wife the resentment will continue to grow and it may be YOU who ends the marriage, not her.


maybe she is just waiting to leave untilafter the holidays?

That is a form of a mild DJ. Why don't you ASK her what is going on?

i just need to "talk".i know i have to tell her how i feel and not let resentment grow. that is hard for me. i think lack of communication was/is our no.1 problem. that and we are both also conflict-avoiders, can you tell?

Yes, we can tell. Arj- I don't know how you do it! For God's sake go grab your wife and tell her you need to TALK!

i am still trying to ride this out til after the holidays and then see what happens.any one have any thoughts today? thanks, arjdad.

You are both home, this the the Xmas season. This is the time to discuss your marriage. Why assume she is doing this or thaat? Please! GO talk to her.

Do you really believe she is going to get up and run to the OM if she is uncomfortable with your words? Of course not! Arj, she needs to know she is destroying you. Otherwise she will thinking everything is great (She will DJ you big time).

stan-ley,--
i appreciate your answer. and i think you are right. i am going to talk to her tonite. i know she is not going to run off to the other M, i am afraid she will want to seperate. to me, that is a step in the wrong direction. i know it works for some, but for us it seems like it would just be easier to D from there. i don't want to go there. i am really going to try hard to talk tonite. should i push her on what she thinks about our future? i have thought of just asking her "do you see us married next year"? we are also going to try to find a church we like closer to home and in the small town where the kids go to school. this is not easy as we have been going into the city to same church for25years. but we both think we need a change, plus meet more parents of our kids friends. it is a small town, maybe 2000 population? probably less then that. i am starting to think thatshe does need a push and to realize that i won't/can't do this forever. she is upstairs working, and i wrote her an e-mail telling her how i felt, but i started venting to much so i just sent it to myself so i could read and think about it later.i hope some of you guys are on tonite and tomorrow, i will probably need to talk. thanks,..
arjdad

arjdad,
Had a busy day so far, so I haven't been on until now. Sorry you're still having a rough time about the SF's. I think that things would be much better if you could both go to MC and begin to discuss things. By all accounts, your M seems to slowly be improving, but when I hear you speak about lack of communicating, I wonder how far you can really come. This is on your mind, so you have to talk to her about it. Again, it doesn't have to be in long detail, but she should just know how you're feeling and what you're going through (and what your needs are-even if she can't fulfill them right now). You really need to speak to her!

CC

buttercup,--
i know, i know. i am not really having as hard of a time with lack of SF, as i am with perceived lack of effort.[thoSF would be good too. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ] do you think i should talk to her tonite, or wait until MC? i am going to try tonite, and i will keep it short. it is hard because our teenage girls stay up later than we do. also, if i wait to late to talk, it makes it hard for us to get to sleep. right now would be a good time, all the kids are down here with me playing video games. but she is working <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> . today i have been colder and more distant to her and i think she can tell something is bothering me. ya, think? my whole world/life is in the balance, of course it is bothering me! anyway wish me luck. when you were at 10 weeks, if your H would have pushed you a little, how would you have taken it? i know you are different people, just wondering. thanks for your help,..
arjdad

arjdad,
At 10 weeks, we were already well into MC, and we discussed his needs and mine and came up with that plan of him easing up on me for up to a year. I'm just now feeling more secure and ready to resume a "normal" sex life with him. Before then I felt guilt and it made me feel very non-sexual. Besides that, throw in the confusion of having a lesbian affair! Very confusing to me!!

Anyway, it'll be good for you to talk to her, even briefly, since this is brewing in your head, and it's apparent that it's getting more and more serious with you. Don't get your hopes up high-I'm sure that she's not ready to meet all of your SF right now, but it's good to talk about it!

I totally understand about your kids staying up later than you do! Ours do too (especially while on vacation!). Hard to get privacy in a house with teenagers! We have a tv and a stereo in our bedroom and sometimes that could filter out other noise, if you catch my drift. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Even talking with the tv on might help you feel more comfortable. Can the children go on any visits with friends for a little while? Can the 2 of you go out on a "date"? You will both eventually need to put in the time and effort to rebuild your M.

I'm sure you'll feel better after speaking to her. Speak to her when you're ready!! Good luck!

CC