ArJdad--Well, she has not written me back yet. But I am confident she will! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />
I am sorry you are still feeling down. It could be the weather, is affecting everyone!!
I think all BS go thru that too, of thinking of giving up. Of losing hope about the Marriage. I think its a natural feeling, dont worry about it. But do not lose hope completely, always have some stored inside of you.
Have you read Bob Pures new thread? It can give you some new insight and information about stages in what you are going thru. Its kind of a sad thread though.
You have kind of a long conmmute when there is a bad weather. My husband is 19miles away from home and sometimes when it rains or snows it takes him almost two hours! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> . Maybe they are better about snow and rain where you live. Here in Washington Dc area, they are horrible drivers. They freak out when there is bad weather/ <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Well Arj...take care. Keep a positive attitude, smile even if you are sad. It will make you feel better.

Myrta

arj,

Sorry you're having a down day! I know how that feels!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Just remember that we're all bound to have them. It's part of the recovery process. We're here if you need to talk or just vent!!

CC

myrta,-

when i got home i checked my e-mail, and she had sent me one and said she got yours. she said she has not answered it yet. made it sound like she would tho.

i feel kind of angry and resentful tonight, i am not sure why, i am just getting so tired of all this. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> . i don't know if she realizes that she is pushing me away. i don't think she means to, but she is.sometimes i feel totaly rejected by her. sometimes i don't think she would care at all, if i just packed up and left. of course i am not planning on doing that. i don't know if she realizes how much i am hurting, or how lonely i feel. it is overwhelming.

i will try to smile even tho i don't feel like i have a reason to.

it is still freezing rain and sleet here,and i think school tomorrow will be cancelled. i am considering staying home to, but i think i would rather be gone.i am working in a new area now, and i have to thnik more and concentrate. less time to think/worry about all this. i don't know if i ever mentioned it,but i work at boeing on commercial airplanes. i guess i should try to concenttrate. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

she also told me in her e-mail, that she got mine[page 19], but has not had a chance to read it yet. hopefully, she will tomorrow.

i thuink we go back to MC next monday. i am going to make the appt., and then tell her when it is. if she doesn't go, i will take that as a sign.

buttercup,-

thanks for taking the time to encourage, even when you are having a hard time too. i know we all have down days, but for me, they just keep dragging on. i really need to see some serious effort.

i was thinking today, that the only reason she is here, is because she can't be with him <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> i don't know if that is true, but it crosses my mind.

tomorrow has got to be better.

thanks all for listening,

arjdad

arj,

Just a quick response to your last post...

It's dreary here too and we have all weather warnings posted for tomorrow. Hope school isn't cancelled! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I want to commend you on your posts. I WISH that my H would be able to put his thoughts down like you do! Sometimes I have to ask him what he's thinking or where his head is at. Since we're done with MC, he has no therapist for himself, and I think that's a mistake. I'm trying to find a new MC or at least an IC for him.

I'm sorry that you're feeling the way you feel. If my H could read your posts, he'd probably see a lot of himself in there! I'm SURE that he wondered if I'd rather have run off with the OW if I had the chance! Of course, he never asks. In his mind, it's all in the past anyway. My answer to that is that I probably NEVER would have run off with her when I loved him (still do) and I have a sure thing here with him. We all make mistakes, and our M got a little stale, but that's no reason to throw it away. I doubt your wife would have left you for the OM. She could have left now, and she didn't. She apparently WANTS to be there, with you. It takes time to get things back on track. Please remember that she's going through a lot of emotions, including a lot of guilt, so it's hard for her to share true emotion or love with you right now. That doesn't mean she doesn't love you or want you there! Hope you think about that...

So, you work on boeings? I'm impressed. I guess you really need a good, clear head to do that line of work! Maybe it's good that you have a new job and it's keeping you busy! That's certainly something I'm envious of right now!

Take care, and try not to think so much. All of your feelings are normal. You're doing just fine!

CC

ArJdad- I know its very hard for you right now. You want your wife to show you more than what she is able to . Please have patience, she will do it soon. Its hard to put a happy face sometimes when you feel rejected and unloved. but just think that YOU are not the only one going thru this. I am sure she feels that way too,even if you tell her you do. She does not believe it still.
ArJ....an affair its a very hard thing to accept, not only foryou as a BS, but for her too. Its a different view once you are out of the affair. You see things very ugly,you see the lies, you see what you have done to your spouse. YOu dislike yourself, and thats why its so hard to believe that there is still love from the part of the BS.
What exactly is that you do with commercial airplanes? I did not understand that <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> . It does sound like a good and exciting job none theless. Do you sleep well at night? Or do you toss and turn the whole night? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> . My husband has been tossing and turning the past three or four nights. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
The weather here is ugly today too. Rainy and much colder than the past couple of days. Gosh, I hate winter!!

Take care..

Myrta

buttercup,-

speaking of what i say on my post, reminds me that i was thinking of changing my name. i don't think that i have said anything to bad tho, just my feelings.it is way easier to write them than to say them to her.i wonder if i should tell her how i feel with e-mail? seems kind of im-personal. you would think after 21 years together, you would be able to talk. anyway, what could be harder to talk about with your spouse then an affair?

i don't know what would have happened if the OM did not have a wife and kids. leaving me for him was not an option. but that does not mean that that is not what she wants. i struggle everyday thinking she is with me by de-fault. especially, when i don't see her trying.[even tho she may be].i don't want her to feel like she HAS to be here, and i don't want to be second choice. i mentioned this in MC, and MC said if we work this out and stay together, i won't be second choice.sounds good but i am a skeptic.


myrta,--

you are right, i want her to show me more right now. i know i need to be patient.
it is hard to put on a happy face when feeling rejected and un-loved. you are very perceptive <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

i don't know where she is at, lonely missing him,ashamed, guilty, sorry for hurting me, and putting her whole family in this predictament.
i just want her to WANT to work on this and try to move on.

i am definately hurting, but trying to get thru it.

until last night, i had been sleeping well, but last night i tossed and turned.

i was quiet and distant last night because i was in a down mood. it does not seem to effect her when i am.

i was working on 737 thrust reversers, but now i am working on 767 struts. it is the part on the wing that the engines attach to.just a blue collar mechanic, probably married out of my league.it is a good job when you have only a high school education. that is why during the day, i can only get on the computer at breaks and lunch. but we have a computer right in my shop, 10-15 feet from my tool box <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />


we got serious ice here last night, all the schools are closed. i stayed home because we are way out in the country, with not much road maintanence.did not want to chance it. although i think i might be better off at work.

thank you all for helping me thru the hard times,


arjdad

arjdad,

Well, you have a day of hookey, huh? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Hope you enjoy it! At least you don't have to shovel snow!

About your W being with you out of "default", I'd try not to look at it that way. After all, if she and the OM really wanted to leave their spouses, they would have! She chose to stay with you and with her children.

I understand what you say about not being able to talk so much, even after being together for 21 years. My H and I have been married for 20 years, and together for 25 years! Still, some things are very difficult to talk about. Luckily in our M, we haven't had to go too deeply talking about things. We agreed on mostly everything and had next to no problems or issues during most of that time. D Day for me was the most difficult day in my life, ever. Having to disclose the A to him and knowing that it would break his heart, was SO difficult for me. I sat with him outside on our glider, and broke it to him slowly. He at first thought that either I was dying or one of our children was deathly sick. He said that if we were all okay and the world wasn't ending, how bad could it be? Good attitude! But it was still very hard!

Anyway, communication is difficult but important. While I think that you dwell too much on things and worry about them before that actually happen, talking is good. If you'd rather email her or write a letter, that's good too. I do think that she's going through her own grieving and guilt right now and you're mistaking that for something else. She's there, with you, and hopefully she'll work on the M and have things more in place within the next few months. Try to hold on til then!

CC

buttercup,--

you are very encouraging. i suppose that she did choose to stay with me and the children, but i would like to think that she stayed,"for me". i see a lot of simularities in stan-ley and myself, as i also feel very insecure.

i will try to hold on, i have said all along, that i am not going anywhere. i just don't know if that is realistic, if she doesn't want to really make this work

anyway, thanks for being there,..


arjdad

hey all,

i have a question. i just printed off two copies of the EN'S questionaire, i am planning on filling one out, do you think i should give her one to fill out? i don't know how receptive she would be. i don't think she is knowledgable on the MB principals. i don't know if that would matter?

i am planning on giving her mine when i am done. if nothing else, at least it shows her that i am serious and am trying to improve our M.

i also left "his needs her needs" in our room where i know she will see it.should i encourage her to read it to?

any input welcome,

arjdad

arj,

Let me know how you make out with both the book and the questionaire. My H wasn't interested in either! I had to convince him to begin MC in the beginning! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

CC

buttercup,--

ok, i just finished filling out the questionaire. i will give it to her later, after we put the youngest to bed. i hope she will be willing to fill one out honestly, so i will know what i need to work on. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . i also hope that by me taking the initiative here, she will see the importance of trying to meet my needs, if we are going to recover.

i feel pretty good about this, i hope i am right.

thanks,

arjdad

ArJdad- I am sure your wife is feeling all the things you mentioned!!She feels shame, guilt,feels terrible for doing this to her kids, to you, to herself!! Everything! Arj, even if she does not tell you this, she feels it. She hurts too. I know ,right now, its hard for you to believe this, but she does. Dont concentrate so much in how you feel, because that only worsens the pain. Try to understand the whole situation as a whole.
Writing her e-mails is a very good idea. My husband did that at the beginning post DD. We even opened yahoo accounts exclusive for each other. It was fun and revealing. So go ahead, start writing her e-mails. Dont expect her to answer all of them, but some she will. My husband got angry-hurt if I did not respond right away!

Hey, I think your job sounds very good and interesting. YOu have to have smarts to be a mechanic. Dont think otherwise!! If we did not have good mechanics for airplanes like yourself, frequent flyers would be in deep trouble <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> .
YOU work with all airplanes from different carriers or a specific one?

Ok, take care of yourself, and dont be down or sad. There is a light at the end of the tunnel!!

Myrta

myrta,--

i will try to not think about how i feel. iknow this is hard on her too. i don't know what all she is feeling, but it doesn't feel or look like guilt or shame to me. she just seems apathetic about the whole thing. i hope it will get better when the sun comes back out. the high here today was 22degrees, and it is not supposed to get above freezing til friday. sunny and 48 saturday. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

i have been writing her some e-mails, just don't know how serious to get in them. and i understand where stanley is coming from, it frustrates and makes me mad when she doesn't respond. makes me feel like i am not even worthy of her time.

i work on new airplanes and boeing sells to all carriers.

thanks for the encouragment, i know things will get better, one way or another.
arjdad

ArjDAD--Have you heard the expression or phrase"Looks can be deceiving" or Not everything that shines is gold"! Well, just because she does not look sad or sorry, does not mean she is not feeling that way. She is putting some kind of charade, or face for your sake. Arj> she wants you to think she is tough, but she is not. I was that way with my husband, still am. I want to remain strong thru this.

He gets more emotional than me now. He drowns in situations faster than me, I dont like it too much. So I look, and try to be strong for both of us. Can you imagine if you see her crying and crumbling all the time? You would hate it, trust me!!

Awful weather you are having there.Yuck! Here is not too bad, 40 and rainy. But still feels really cold and dreary.

Take CARe!!

MYRTA

myrta,--
i have heard those expressions, thanks for the reminder. i was going to talk to her tonight, not sure what i was going to say, but pretty sure it would have been LB'S. i did not get the chance, she fell asleep on the couchcuddling with son getting ready for bed. probably a good thing.

i don't know if we should have some kind of a deadline for things or not. maybe i just need out of the house and back in the swing of work.i am going in the morning, no matter what. the kids don't have school again, and i feel like i really need out for a while.

i don't know if she is trying to look tough, or if she is just dazed and confused.this would be sooo much easier if she would try to!

you are probably right about seeing her crying, but every now and then it would be nice to see some kind of emotion.

i am considering telling her if she wants out, we can make up an excuse and spare the kids the details.don't know if i want to do that, i guess i am afraid she might take me up on it.

i am sorry i have been whining so much, i just feel really down and discouraged. at least the girls b-ball starts up again friday night. it is a road game about a one hour drive. my sis is going to watch the younger two, so the wife and i can go alone. it is hard to get 15 hours of alone time with her, and she is not familiar with the concept. i really need her to read up on MB principals, and on this site.

thanks everyone,,

arjdad

it is one of those days. i almost feel like throwing in the towel, and telling her " you when". if this is the most you can show me, i'm outta here. of course i don't really want to say that, just venting here. but it does cross my mind.

it is 11 weeks since DD, am i expecting too much too fast?

stop the ride, i want off. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

thanks,

arjdad

ArjDAD--Dont make that mistake,please. Dont corner her like that!! Remember her state of mind is not too strong yet, she is still confused. Yes, she might take you up on the offer, but not because she wants out, but because she is notmeasuring up to what you want from her. She wants to spare you more dissapointment and pain.

Its still a short time since DD. I know you want her to show you more, but she just cannot do it yet. Even if she really try, she just cant!!

You are young still and I know you need a woman to show you her love for you. Thats why you are getting so frustrated, you need affection, love,attention. I feel so bad that she is not trying a little bit harder. Arjdad, if she was not working so hard, I am sure she would be try harder. But since she inmerses herself in work, she can divert her mind from your problems.

Arjdad, maybe you do need to talk to her more strongly. State your worries to her, spill your heart to her. YOu get a bit scared of her and think that things will worsen. But if you think about it, and by what you describe here, whats worst than now??? She is indifferent,non talkative right now, the worst would be that she gets angry maybe, thats better than indifference. So go for it!!!

I hope she would write me so I could talk to her, so we can exchange our worries and compare how we feel or how we felt. I think she will write me, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Write me an e-mail if you like, write my husband too if you want to. He can help you from his men's point of view.

Good luck Arj!!

MYRTA

myrta,--
ok, i will take your advice and not pressure her right now. she has said since this all started that she wishes she could say/do what i want/need her to do.

i think i am going to write her an e-mail before i go to bed. she will see it tomorrow while i am at work. i am going to ask her to read tthe book and take the questionaire.

should i tell her that i need more from her right now?

that i need her to meet some of my EN'S?

should i tell her that i am so tired of trying alone?

i don't know if she is lurking here or not, but it does not matter. i don't say anything to hurt her, i only want to help her thru this and to save our M.

should i tell her that i am still willing to give her more time and space?

i will do whatever it takes, but if she knows that, there is no reason to hurry or do anything on her part.i guess that is what i am thinking when i say that i can't/won't try alone forever. eventually, i will give up.

thanks,

arjdad

Arjdad,

What's up?? Why are you being so hard on yourself? You need a break from this constant thinking and tearing everything apart. I agree that the weather and being confined in the house do NOT help us at all! But, you can't give up hope when you don't even know what your wife is thinking. 11 weeks isn't that long at ALL. I wasn't out of the fog for a good six months! Please give your wife more time! In the meantime, try to just appreciate one little thing every day. She'll come around eventually! YOu're doing all you can to repair things right now. Have some faith.

CC

buttercup,--

as usual, i can count on you and myrta to "set me strait". thanks for being so encouraging, obviously i really needed it tonight.

i am getting out of the house tomorrow,we are way behind at work. i can even work late if i want to.

i know realistically that 11 weeks is not long in this situation, but it seems a lot longer from this side.

as i told myrta, i will give her more tome. but i hope it is not 6 months <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

it is good advice, to look for one good thing a day, i will do that to. help me stay optimistic.

man, i hope you are right and she comes around.

but you are right, i need to have more faith. it is so hard right now.

thanks for everything,

arjdad

p.s.- stan-ley, being awful quiet tonight, you all right? i would take input from you as well, since you have been there before me. thanks