Orchid, thanks foryour advice but:
1. It would take me at least 3 weeks to get the books thru the mail. Hopefully I´ll be getting 2 of them on sat when my brother gets back from USA.In themeantime I have read everything on this website and others.
2. I don´t trust any MC even if they exist around here. This is a latin country, things are a little different. I am an MD and I have always watched psychiatrists and psycologists carefully because I know that you might need them at any time and I really don´t trust them. I don´t think there are professional MCs here.
3. If I do get him out now,my kids will surely fail their last exam to get into University. I think that´s unfair. D day they were starting those exams.
4. the last exam is the 23rd dec 24th is OW´s birthday and the day we celebrate Xmas dinner with the family. That will be the first time he will be forced to face my family who know and also feel the dread of his daughters and mother finding out. It could get thru the fog, but nevertheless I will insist he leaves the 25th or the 26th. And that when his daughters will know the whole truth.
5. Separating will be the last chance. I have already told him that unless OW gets out of his life there is no chance for us, but he still thinks that he doesn´t love me and that we can be friends. Little does he know!!!!! I am prepared to go dark and if he doesn´t respect that, I can leave for a month or 2, out of the country.
6. he has never been unpleasant, or abusive or even angry, so I´m pretty safe for the moment. He refuses to talk of the A or about our M. For him it is all clear and simple: he´s not in love with me.

I am hoping that exposure to the people he cares about and going dark will penetrate the fog and he will at least realize that what he has done is wrong. Uptil now he does not admit that what he is doing is wrong, and nobody has pointed it out to him (except me). Exposure will solve that.
We talked of As in the past many times because they are very frequent among people working in the health profession. He was always very critical as was I and I always told him that if he should ever think of someone else I would prefer he told me first. Of course he obviously didn´t and I had to find out for myself.

He is looking for place to live, and when I asked, he said he wasn´t going to live with OW, although she´s single and living with her mother and sister. But maybe that´s not what he told her and I´m sure that´snot what she´s thinking.

Anyway, I do not believe in spying and snooping and lying when it´s about things I can´t control. I KNOW HIM, or rather who he was for 20 years. I refuse to waste my time on OW, she´s really not worth it.
Have togo now but willcheck later in case you guys have any more ideas about what I can do to make these last days memorable for him, since they ar his last 10 days with the family.

CC,

I know this is a very trying time for you and I think you are doing quite well. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Given that and if you can keep up the charade, the best thing is to put on the best plan A possible. This means work on your personal improvements and show the positive side.

You never know when the OW's ugliness will rear it's head. If the OW is single then she may see the Ws as a father figure? Is this sanctioned by her parents?

When you get ready to go to plan B, make sure your legal paperwork is also ready. It is up to you when to implement but at least you will know your options.

Even through the fog, $$ talks. 2+2=4 not matter now much you try to agrue against it. So the bank account, bills, family obligations will still be his responsibility. Another thing that works is the surprise attack. Don't give any hints or threaten a plan B. It is better executed without warning.

REassure your children of your love for them. Don't speak for his love for them. They will see it. Children as young as 3 and up can understand abandonment. Don't minimize his betrayal to them. He has to answer for his actions when they question him.

I encouraged my son to ask his father some of his quesitions. At one point my son (6 at the time), told me he didn't want to ask his dad anything because he was too embaressed at how his father was acting. Imagine that....out of the mouth of babes. Then this little tyke decided to write a letter instead to his dad that cut right through the fog..... stabbed the WS in the heart. But it still was not enough to end the A. The A continued for 2 more years.

So be strong. Identify your personal and marital boundaries. SEcure your finances and protect your children.

Don't be surprised if the OW is going to want to go after you instead of just the WS. Many a OW want the title and possessions rightly belonging to the W. Some have even gone so far as to take the house, jewelry, even the bed. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Just be prepared and take care,
L.

John,

I happen to agree with you 100%. IMO you are not blowing smoke, you are right on. It is so difficult for people to do that, fear seems to prevail and causes a great deal paralysis in so many of the sitch's on this board though.

* CC interesting question !

I think that while Fog appears to be a symptom of infidelity, it is not an ACTUAL disease. A WS can choose to behave rationally if they so so desire but many or most need interventions such as exposure or a period of forced NC to hand hold them out of their voluntary dependency on their OP/and the feelings of the affair.

We BS TREAT them as if mentally imparied, alien abducted or similar but must remember that they CHOSE to have an affair. They could "unchoose". Yes its an addiction but people give up smoking , even heroin every day. It can be done if will is strong enough.

* John my wife emotionally rapes me and throws away 18 years of marriage and you think I am bad for calling her names EVEN THOUGH I am SINGLE HANDEDLY rescuing my marriage,my kids lives, and my wifes own self respect through my own pain , grief, hard work and faith ? * ahem *. I reserve the right to call her ANY DAM' THING I CHOOSE.

Self righteous ? You betcha ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

As it is I have not been offensive to her on here ( as I recall) but I reserve the right so to be if I choose.

Sorry John, IMO WS throw away all conventions of personal respect when they have an affair until such times as the BS wants to reimpose them. They wanna be respected, they need to behave respectably.

I felt regected, disrespected, like I wasnt important to her

And you responded to that by having an EA. We BS have to respond to MANIFEST neglect , disrespect, unimportance by choking it down and plan A'ing. Sounds very close to your justifying your affair John. Theres never any justification for same, sorry.

Boy, you are lucky Noodle hasn't read this yet ! My 2x4 is a toothpick compared to hers ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I totally agree that the fog is a symptom and not the cause of an A. I have not even begun to address the A with WH, because he does not even admit it is an A!!!!!!!!
I had asked him if there was another woman involved and he had said "no". When I confirmed he was spending the weekend with OW I sent him an e mail telling him that I considered that although he PAID her for her services, if he was taking her away for the weekend she was "another woman for me" implying that her secretarial duties should not include sex!
He has never said anything about this.

* John my wife emotionally rapes me and throws away 18 years of marriage and you think I am bad for calling her names EVEN THOUGH I am SINGLE HANDEDLY rescuing my marriage,my kids lives, and my wifes own self respect through my own pain , grief, hard work and faith ? * ahem *. I reserve the right to call her ANY DAM' THING I CHOOSE.

And I have the right to call anyone any name I choose, anytime. But what good would that do, for them or for me. I could and have in my head called my DD's dad names and badmouthed him to my parents when they were alive. My parents wouldn't hear it though. This is what they said to me "that man is your daughters father, and out of love for her and respect for her you keep your mouth shut! You will not badmouth him in our home again!" Did they like what he did to me? No. but they had a very strong sense of respect for the family, and by default he was family to us and always would be becouse of my DD.

I live by that now.

We BS have to respond to MANIFEST neglect , disrespect, unimportance by choking it down and plan A'ing. Sounds very close to your justifying your affair John. Theres never any justification for same, sorry.

With all due respect Bob, BS's don't HAVE to do anything, we CHOOSE to choke it down and stay with the WS.

Self-ritousness serves no purpose other than to keep yourself on the "I am better than you pedestal" because I did not cheat and you did.

You are factually correct Weaver but I did feel morally compelled to react in a way that supported my marriage.

I didn't have another 'choice'. Squid did have a choice.

All I am doing is railing against PC restriction on BS who work to recover M when WS is crazy.

They are my heroes and have earned the right to call thei WS whatever the f'k they choose. Sorry if that is not a viable opinion.

Pure is my handle not my nature <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

My A was TOTALLY WRONG. I freely admit that. I always have. I know it was wrong, I have faced the damage it has done, and I have done everything in my power to fix what I finished breaking.

In the past I have also been the BS. Would it have done any good for me to call her names? Well, it may have done good for the relationship with her and OM.

DJs and LBing are to be avoided I thought. But name calling isnt a DJ? I know for a fact its a LB.

Yes Bob you have that right. I dont deny that. My question is, would you do it to her face? I refuse to post anything that I wouldnt want my W or even my KIDS to read.

would you do it to her face? I refuse to post anything that I wouldnt want my W or even my KIDS to read.


John I said things to my FWW to her face that I wouldn't write on here. I had one huge LB session during plan A.

Oddly Squid tells me NOW thats when she realised how much I'd bene hurt. I'd been Plan A 'lighthouse' until then.

Glad you are open in communication with your W and kids now your EA is over. Thats of credit to you.

" John I said things to my FWW to her face that I wouldn't write on here."

LMAO. My W used words towards me I didnt think she knew.

" John I said things to my FWW to her face that I wouldn't write on here."

LMAO. My W used words towards me I didnt think she knew.

Oops double post, but hey I deserved what she called me, so a double reminder.

<small>[ December 15, 2004, 08:13 AM: Message edited by: john3479 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by john3479:
but hey I deserved what she called me, so a double reminder.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I donno if you "deserved" the name-calling.

Name-calling is not "justice deserved" ... it's an emotional explosion!

Don't make name-calling something it is not.

It's an ugly in-the-moment expression of outrage and visceral hurt. Certainly not justice deserved.

And, when you are searching for something "good" about name-calling ---> it is probably a substitute for physical violence ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Pep

True but she also did it in a fairly respectable manner.

Your acting like.....

your sounding like...

Orchid,
a coupleof things I didn´t answer before (was at work)
OW is single,her F apparently abandoned the family, he has never been in the picture. The M and S approve heartily and help with the A, although they are really lowlife!

Daughters are teenagers so will do what they want. I willbe there for them.

I will talk to a lawyer as soon as I´m in plan B. Although the approximate date (ASAP after Xmas) has been agreed upon, he has no idea I will insist and that I will go dark. and I´ve already decided that if he does not leave,I will. and IT WILL BE A SURPRISE,because everything has been "so pleasant" uptil now.
In my plan B letter I have told him I will send him all the bills to be taken care of. Usually I do that.

I think I´m on the right path....

CC,

You do realize that when you meet with the lawyer, you will be given your options that may require time to digest. If you put your plan B timeline and meeting with the lawyer all at the same time, the pressure on you maybe greater than you can handle.

Also your expectations on the bills maybe a disappointment. One thing is that the WS does not have the same loyalty or responsible actions that your H did. So he may allow the bills to lapse into a severe state. Many a marriage has had to deal with the financial fallout of the A or the pattern of wreckless spending even prior to the A.

Why? Because the A is just another selfish act and the WS tends NOT to care about anything responsible. So BECAREFUL!

JMHO,
L.

cc,

While I was the WS, it was my BS that pushed me to file. I really wish there had been a plan B first. But that wasnt my place. It was hers.

But from talking with her she wishes she hadnt pushed me to file so hard. At the time I filed I was tryingto recover the marriage but she didnt want to. I didnt want to file, but was put into a position where I HAD to. ( Yes I was left with no choice, it was a safety factor for our kids)

She didnt realize that she would have to pay a lawyer to counter file. She thought I would do one of those easy do it yourself type divorces.

Now that we are working towards recovery the divorce filing has been a sore point. She feels I FORCED her to throw all that money away.

I guess what I am tryingto say is if you plan on doing plan B I would wait a while to file. What do you have to lose if you wait? Give plan B a chance.

Thanks John and Orchid,
we haven´t had any money problems uptil now. Quite a few months ago he assured me that we would be taken care of and has never said anything about spending or my using the money in our joint account. I know these things might change but I tend to believe that he will take care of his daughters and of me. I hope so as my part time job is not enough for us to live on. As I told you our relationship has been very friendly and civilized....
On the other hand I am not filing for divorce. I have no idea how it is done here but I will call a cousin´s wife who separated last year and is a lawyer and just ask her what options I have and see if she thinks that I have to do anything to guaratee my family´s financial futur. But I won´t be filing,I have hope. Lots of things will be happening.... and hopefully we will see some results
Even as I write now, I am hopeful because today he came home exceptionally early. He hasn´t done this for months and we are watching TV and having a snack...