WELL!!! uP until that point I was!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Myrta

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Myrta:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I had an A because I have character flaws </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, I agree with that, but not everybody that has character flaws have affairs.
Some people with the worst character flaws, would never, even if they have the worst spouse in the world have an affair.


MYRTA </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">\

Myrta:

I am agreeing with you 100% here. I just expressed my opinion here and was not calling out any one WS. I also contend that the issue of whether one betrays their marriage is not the be all to end all. I would never betray my wife.....HOWEVER, there are things in my character that I am sure the worst of WS is better than me at.

I never said that Character = faithfulness .
We all know it is not that simple. Please do not think I am trying to call out WS here as being disgusting, morally degrading heathens...I am not. Perhaps my point is not being understood. Oh well....I don't want to make anyone feel that I am making judgements about them personally.

<small>[ December 14, 2004, 04:35 PM: Message edited by: lemonman ]</small>

Lemonman---No, dont worry. I know that me having an affair does not define who truly I am!!!

I had always been a good person, good wife to my husband, and I think a good mom to mykids.
They all love to talk to me still, and they are from 29 all the way to 12 years old. So, I must be doing something good!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

You are very nice, I know you are not personally attacking any of us INFIDELS (like Pepperband would say <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) here!!!

MYRTA

maybe this comes down to definitions, but is there anyone you have met who does NOT have a character flaw? Of course, none of us do....

Ahem, now, where were we? This is a good time to talk to LM since he has no one to save right now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Believer I have thought about your questions posed here alot...I am your typical long term marriage with a WS who went from a man who was a successful, respected businessman, honorable, credible, adored his family always putting them first above everything else..that is why I loved him...thought we shared the same values in life...to a man who now has done a complete 180...we can try to attribute that to a mid life crisis due to factors never faced by our WS's...but I truly have difficulty understanding how everything changed so fast...morals, self respect, success, loving family all washed away in a heartbeat..I wonder if he had these flaws all along but kept them well hidden from everyone...maybe he just got tired of living a double life?...one thing I do know he was very good at hiding his affairs...no one had a clue as he presented himself to Jo Public as the perfect family man...that is why it is so hard to understand all this...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am usually extremely strong willed and I never let ANYONE convince me of anything that I dont believe is right!!! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ya think?
I have to ditto Pep on this one Myrta. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Okay, I'm going to toss this one out here.

the character flaws lead you to the A, and the OP puts you in the fog with their charm and creates the chemical malfunction, shall we say, in the brain.

Oh, and Pep thank you, but really your opinion is just that your opinion and it is really none of my business. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> See how good I am doing.

You know I didn't mean that, right? Hope I didn't make you mad. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Lemonman, when you don't respond to something people post, it might lead them to believe you find them insignificant. I mean, it might, if they had insecurity issues. Not that it's me, or that I do, but I have heard this. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

KY

NewOutlook - I just don't know. I can't believe that character flaws could be hidden for so long. I still believe it is in the brain chemicals.

KYELLOW4---No, I disagree with you, I dont think he finds some posters insignificant. He is simply a conflict avoider. He is probably in Pepperbands threat now <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ...You know the one of "Conflict Avoiders"!

SORRY, DOUBLE POST!!!

<small>[ December 14, 2004, 05:48 PM: Message edited by: Myrta ]</small>

Ok guys/girls.........I am kind of a simpleton here and am getting lost with all the double speak and innuendo <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . I am gonna discharge myself from this thread.

I am off to the gym , see you all later.

Cheers <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Myrta and Jelly -

Hey, chill out you two. Lemonman is obviously tired from a long day saving people. That takes a lot out of a person.

But I betcha right now, he is having some dinner, and consulting with a colleague about brain chemicals. They are probably in a deep discussion over some steak and lobster about how these things happen. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by believer:
<strong> Myrta and Jelly -

Hey, chill out you two. Lemonman is obviously tired from a long day saving people. That takes a lot out of a person.

But I betcha right now, he is having some dinner, and consulting with a colleague about brain chemicals. They are probably in a deep discussion over some steak and lobster about how these things happen. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ok, Believer....I think after the 50th time of you making the remark about saving people...it stopped being funny. Move on.

........Or, he could be going to the gym. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> ........Or, he could be going to the gym. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Quick and hilarious, my favorite. LOL Believer


Yup just as Myrta called it, a conflict avoider. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

LM - Sorry, but I mean that respectfully. I will move on though.

LEMONMAN---Hey Dr.Lemonman, in the gym someone could trip over a threadmill, lose conciousness and you may not have your scalpel ready, so you might have to do mouth to mouth!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />



Myrta <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

<small>[ December 14, 2004, 08:32 PM: Message edited by: Myrta ]</small>

***I have to believe that this is something in the brain. There have been too many good people that have been married too many years, and suddenly "fell".***

Here's my take on it:

1) Start with one spouse who has some sort of character flaw -- arrogance, selfishness, entitlement, narcississim, and/or low self esteem -- or any combination of the above.

2) Add a big rush of "brain chemical" when that spouse starts getting special attention from the OP.

At this point, someone with a strong enough character will pull back and say, "I don't want to go down that road. If I keep going, I will get waaayyy too involved with this person. I'm stepping back and putting a stop to it now." And they do.

But the spouse with the character flaws doesn't think of this. All they think of is how great they are feeling with this OP and how much fun they're having. The rush of "brain chemicals" affects them like any other addict, whether the addicion is to nicotine or crack or alcohol or gambling. You've got to get your fix *no matter what.*

So:

3) Like a frog in a slowly heating pot of water, they don't notice that the water is steaming and then simmering and finally boiling -- until it's too late and the damage is done.

Mulan

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> LOL...LM, knew ya couldn't make it through one day being pc!!! Will give ya credit, you do try really hard!!

just a note that has nothing to do with the orignal topic...

wish you'd quit "sighing" and disclaiming your words as you say them. If you have something to say then you should just say it. Let it be known that it's not MB principals, if you must, or say from where your perspective is coming from. I think that sometimes people need to hear what you have to say. It may not be the appropriate advice (it seems that you assume that all BS would take their spouse back no matter what), but it gives people something to think about. Why the "sighing" poor misunderstood lemonman routine?

a little change of subject...

The reason I *do* think your posts can be spot on: One of the very misunderstood things about "plan A" is boundaries and ENFORCING them. I'm guilty of it myself, though less and less, thankfully. People have their boundaries and do not always enforce them. Not only does that make for an ineffective Plan A...it makes for a less than full recovery, if that's what happens. I don't always agree with your method, but I think it's good for people to hear that they may not be following their own principals and they are doing a disservice to themselves.

I think there is a period of time where accepting your WS without enforcement boundaries is okay, but there has to come a point where 'enough is enough'. It is unfortunate that some people let it go on too long. It's bad for them, the marriage, the kids, etc.

There was a time when I would've gone back to my spouse ALMOST no matter what. Once I realized I didn't need him, that all changed. In my case a lot of that decision is out of my hands anyway..it would be a logistical nightmare for me to go back and I wouldn't do that to my son. But I like to think that I would be able to stand strong anyway. I still Plan A, but there are certain things that must happen before I would consider him to be a good marriage prospect again.

Anyway..I guess my point is that I generally don't object to your posts as they really boil down to boundaries and people who let their WS cross them longer than is healthy for ANY purpose. You can totally ignore me if you wish, but I hope you'll own your words instead of trying to act like they should be disregarded.