</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Stan-ley:

At one point I advised my wife to go live with OM until the NEW became OLD. In my mind that was the only way of not being compared to the NEW (since I was the OLD). I also figured that during that time of separation I could become the NEW again by simply being away for so long.

And that Pepper is wacky foggy thinking by a BH!

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Actually - what you propose is pretty close to what happens. You can't become new again - but by removing yourself entirely and become rare commodity in danger of being lost you can indeed trigger the OMG-I-don't-want-to-lose-him chemistry.

As much as I love the interpersonaly dynamics of romantic relationships I am FASCINATED by the neurochemistry. It's like an amazing 3D puzzle inside a kaleidescope. Stunningly elegant, rational, and completely logical.

C

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Belonging to Nowhere:

A NeverWS can resist any temptation; moreover, if committed to M – temptation is an un-known in their life. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sorry, but hard scientific data and anecdotal research will not support your thought here. And every WS was at one time a neverWS who didn't resist temptation.

C

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by cerri:
...anecdotal research will not support your thought here.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm so glad. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And every WS was at one time a neverWS who didn't resist temptation.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">They were just noWS but no NeverWS <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

... or you didn't understand strenght of a commitment (from My point of view)...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Actually - what you propose is pretty close to what happens. You can't become new again - but by removing yourself entirely and become rare commodity in danger of being lost you can indeed trigger the OMG-I-don't-want-to-lose-him chemistry.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is what I thought.

IS that why my wife was very sexually aroused immediately after D-day? I know she was terrified of divorce (and had not yet realized that she was about to enter withdrawal due to the turn moil of D-day and its aftermath).

Someone told me her hyper sexuality was a residual from the affair excitement. In any event she wanted to make love to me as soon as I discovered the affair and said "I was leaving her". Then as withdrawal set in she could not stand my presence and had to pretend she liked me.

All this complexity of human behavior is hard to understand for someone like me who behaves in a rather simple and predictive way.

<small>[ December 16, 2004, 02:52 PM: Message edited by: Stan-ley ]</small>

Let me not stand too close to someone who says "Never" or "Always" because life has a habit of humbling us...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by StillHereMakingIt:
<strong> Let me not stand too close to someone who says "Never" or "Always" because life has a habit of humbling us... </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">ROTFL

Me: "Hell will freeze over before I live in WI."

I live in WI.

Me: "I am NOT buying a "project" house that needs a bunch of work.

We bought a house with no kitchen, no fully functioning bath, and bizarre electrical workings (just to mention a few of the more exciting projects).

Me: "Country music is stupid. I will never listen to it."

It's all we have on in the house.

Me: "I was born a Catholic, it's right. It's the only way."

I'm a Pagan Priestess.

Me: "I have no idea how people have affairs. It would never happen to me."

I had an affair.

C

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think it is valid for MYRTA (or any other FWS) to say "I would NEVER have another affair."

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks for that quote Pep. I can tell you that in the more than 7 years since my A ended that I have grown, learned much about myself and the world, matured and suffered at my own stupidity enough to know the signs and quickly BACK OFF from any R that could become an A. I would say that anyone is capable of having an A, but knowing what starts them and how they hurt can certainly be a great preventative measure.

Cerri--your post was awesome. I never stop learning from you people.

Cerri -

Thanks for the explanation. My pastor gave a sermon several years ago that boiled down to the fact that most people never plan to have an affair. He said to "guard your heart".

We are all hardwired to "fall". You can say by evolution or "sin" -take your pick. His advice was to be aware of that. In fact he gave almost the same list of things to avoid as you did. (Were you at the church that day? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> )

In the years WH and I were married, I took precautions. I had a wonderful male friend at work who I had been advising to buy a house. He finally bought one and invited me over to see it. (Innocent, right?). I declined, although I would have loved to have seen it. But the sermon was in the back of my mind.

My WH on the other hand, forgot. His affair started when he was walking our dog. A neighbor, whose husband had just been sent to Iraq, was out on her porch crying. He stopped to comfort her. Then every evening, he walked the dog, and stopped to chat with her.

Since then they have been continuing the affair for 2 years. They both failed to guard their hearts.

believer:
In fact he gave almost the same list of things to avoid as you did. (Were you at the church that day? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> )

Errrr...... I kinda doubt it. I tend to "church" outdoors. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> But the truth about human beings and how we work is not confined to any one belief system - it's universal. Sounds like your pastor had a good head on his shoulders. I'm so sorry your husband didn't listen.

But ya know -- at two years? Hmmmm..... I wonder how much longer it will last.

C

Cerri - Who knows, and who cares?

But on to the interesting things. I still don't understand Stanley's question about how they get over the "new" and can come back to the marriage again. In his case, Myrta immediately made the decision.

But say the WS continues the A. After the early part wears off, hasn't "attachment" developed for the OP? I see that a lot here in long term affairs.

I'm not understanding the question about not understanding Stanley's question. Can you expand it a little for me?

Yes of course attachment develops for the AP. That's why it's so important to expose, confront, and make waves asap when finding out about an affair. The longer it continues the more likely attachment will occur and the harder it will be to end it. Add to that the momentum of a relationship moving forward and the fact that even the most horrified friends and family will eventually become complacent if not accepting and you can see that time is of the utmost essence.

Hanging on in what is perceived to be Plan A - meeting needs, being nice <gag>, not rocking the boat, and not moving to Plan B sooner rather than later, are all things that our emotions and instincts drive us to do and that are virtually surefire ways contribute to the ending of the marriage.

We all want to be kind and considerate but there are times when not taking a hard stance is harmful. One of those times is when a spouse has an affair. Those who follow a misguided Plan A or even who stay in a well designed Plan A for too long must own their part in the death of the marriage.

C

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by cerri:
<strong>
Hanging on in what is perceived to be Plan A - meeting needs, being nice <gag>, not rocking the boat, and not moving to Plan B sooner rather than later, are all things that our emotions and instincts drive us to do and that are virtually surefire ways contribute to the ending of the marriage.

We all want to be kind and considerate but there are times when not taking a hard stance is harmful. One of those times is when a spouse has an affair. Those who follow a misguided Plan A or even who stay in a well designed Plan A for too long must own their part in the death of the marriage.

C </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">AHHHHHHHHh, so nice to see a post like this. Very well put. Cerri......Now back to our regular scheduled programming.

LM

Cerri- I had never posted to you before <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> . MY husband Stanley wanted me to talk to you shortly after DD, but I refused!!

I made the decision right on DD, as Believer , just stated of ending the affair, and working in my marriage. Like he says, he still ponders about my decission of deciding to stay with the "old" versus the "new".

Cerri, my head is very well put on my shoulders. I know that my husband is the one, and thats why my decission was made so fast. Even if I was in the fog, I still had moments of sanity. I always knew my husband was a much better man, in all sense of the word.

My husband keeps on romantizing "my affair" too much, like Pepperband says. I am starting to wonder myself about this beautiful romantic story that he is so inmersed in.

Please advice him, that is time to move on with our lives, our marriage.

I am staying with him, because I LOVE HIM.

Thanks

MYRTA

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lemonman:
AHHHHHHHHh, so nice to see a post like this. Very well put. Cerri......Now back to our regular scheduled programming.

LM </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why thank you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Ethics is my area of study within my religious practice. I don't do nice and I don't pull punches but I'm a vehement defender of the need to be calm, courteous, respectful, and honest.

C

Myrta - glad you decided to stop and chat. Really - In spite of not doing nice, I'm pretty easy to get along with. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I agree that the BS can often delay recovery by romanticizing, as you say, the A. But you have to realize that it's part of his process to work through and get it out of his system.

At this point - if the A is over and permanent no contact is in play, and you've agreed to honesty and accountability, then there's really no reason for you guys to be talking about the A. It's in the past, it can't be changed. The present and the future and what you do with your marriage is wide open for making all sorts of great memories. Seems to me that would be a far better use of energy and focus.

C

Myrta - Cerri is excellent to talk to. Why don't you and Stanley check out her site - saveyourmarriagecentral, and make an appointment for some counseling. I really think it would help the two of you, and be well worth the money.

BELIEVER- oH, I did not know you could get counsel by Cerri. Thank you for the suggestion.
I will check it out.

MYRTA