Chris, she would not move back here, I would have to move to where she is at. Basically give up my job and my life out here, which is a big one for me to say the least as I really was moving on with my new life. I really don't know why I cracked a little and gave her the opening to talk with me, I guess because I still care for her.

Point taken, we need to talk soon. She is supposed to call me later.

OG, I just read your post.

I guess I was trying to show her she is loved and cared for and that led to the pampering on my part. She was flirty, cute, etc., we played with puppies and cats at the humane society, just having fun, being "in the moment", whatever.

Thanks for pointing out the somewhat obvious, she is not yet at all committed to the M. These are games right now as neither of us seems to want to talk about it yet.

I am planning on addressing the situation soon, but not sure exactly when as I want to see what comments everyone has on this board and not jump one way or the other too quickly.

Thanks again, great comments from everyone.

Well, 1250AM the phone rings, its her, she can't sleep and we chat casually for about 45 minutes.

She then asks what are we going to do about our court date (which is 3 weeks away). I respond not sure what to do, what do you suggest? She says something like well, whether we move forward together or not, I think we can settle this out of court, would you agree? I told her I wasn't sure.

This then led into her diatribe about the reality of the situation, and do I realize that she would never want to interact with my family and/or friends, I told her I do, but give it enough time and people will understand we are working on this together and they will respect that. I then hear the litany of issues which to where we are at, she wants me to be there emotionally and mentally for her, she never wants to feel alone in her own home, she needs respect, her opinion matters, she always has loved me and is attracted to me.

She wants to continue to hear that yes, I did have a role to play in this, but she doesn't seem to believe me as she says we only just started talking the last 2 weeks and I shut her out the last 6 months (after we filed I went dark).

She then says if you move back here, you need to get your own job, we would not live together because she doesn't want this same thing to occur in a year. I tell her I am not willing to do that, we are married, we will interact as a married couple and that means living together.

It finally wound up where I told her I knew she had online personals, her response is that stuff is crazy and she has turned off her account. She also threw it back at me where I had a account with a personal website---but, the profile was turned off weeks agoa and the account was deleted on Saturday. She then added her account was also off...which I am sure it wasn't as I checked earlier yesterday afternoon.

Anyway, this is the craziness, she seems to want to try and determine if I am real or not, have I made changes, in me.

She says she cannot make a decision right now on this phone call, she did have a good time with me, that was never the problem, etc. Like a broken record.

Thanks, I will check in later.

All I hear is SHE SHE SHE.What SHE wants Nature.Where is the willingness to explore how to make the marriage better? Let us not forget who cheated on whom.Sounds like a bunch of demands and nothing STILL has changed.Unless she faces what she has done and works with you in the marriage,she will never really learn from this experience.

O

OG, you are correct. I am basically bending over, listening to her and trying to show I still want to make it work. However, I do not hear the same thing from her.

Again, it's like she is trying to see the changes in me, are they real, she hasn't seen enough yet, etc.

And, I tell her, how is this going to happen now, you are 2000 miles away, sure we can meet here or there or in between over a weekend or two. And, we can talk on the phone everyday...her response was I called you, I wanted to talk to you and yes,it's a start, would you agree? I said yes.

Well, I agreed, a very small baby step, I guess. Not sure what else I can do at this point.

I actually went into statistics with her about how easy it is to just give up, not work at it, look at the D rate for first M...then I tell her look at the rate for 2nd M, ~75%! And, why is that? Because you have the most tolerance in your first M, by the time you are in your second and problems occur people just give up.

This decision will affect each of us for the rest of our lives and I do not want to have any regrets. She was just listening as I said this to her.

Boy, what a fiasco....but I am beginning to realize she is just not able to face her own demons and learn from this with my help. Which is all I wanted, to begin to recover with a plan, together with her. She does not have the inner strength, she is a very weak person.

Who knows at this point. I told her I would call her later today. I leave late tonight to head back east.

Nature,

I do understand how you are giving of yourself and trying to get your WW to see that you are there,willing to try.I hear that in your posts.But the very fundamental issue here that you both have to agree upon before *anything else occurs is an agreement to work on the marriage together with professional help.Wasn't that what you were to going to suggest to her from the very beginning? That hasn't been established.It's from THAT point on,where the real work occurs: the exploration of what went wrong,feelings,expectations,habits,needs,etc.It seems as though your WW would like to have all kinds of prerequisites in place first before she will even consider this.It is impossible and unfair.You have to build up from the bottom.She doesn't get to have you jumping through hoops,meeting her "demands" so she can feel all comfy and cozy.C'mon.Has she forgotten what she has put you through and that choice she made last year? You can't move to be near each other unless there is a firm committment to the marriage,wouldn't you agree? How will that ever work?

Talking on the phone is a small start in some way but just how long do you do that until she finally concedes to what is absolutely necessary? I think you mentioned that she is stubborn right? I think it is getting in the way again.If she will not face herself,will not face family then how can she face you? If she needs a mountain of convincing to come back to the relationship/marriage is that what you really want? She shouldn't want it for herself and for you as a couple? I want you to give me something,anything, that shows a spark from her that she is serious about making you open your heart again to her for all the right reasons.I have not heard that yet.

I hope these posts aren't over the top but you have given me a lot of strength before when I was down and not so sure about what I was doing.I have no more misconceptions about my own D now but you are at a point in time where you are reconsidering everything again after being so strong and sure about what you were doing and where you were headed.

One things for sure though.If I were to ever consider taking my WH back and work on our marriage,he would have to want it as well as me.I would not want him back if he was undecidded,unsure about me or confused about what he wants in life.That is not a positive platform to take off from when it comes to something as important as a marriage recovery program.If your WW is confused about everything right now,it may be best to let her go and figure things out for herself.Until she does,she is just going to be a confused and insecure partner if you take her back,which,over time,will just present the same problems all over again unless there is that plan(IC/MC).She agreed with you to put the D on hold,the WHY question still hasn't been answered.

I wish I could be more supportive of this as it would seem to be a hopeful sign of a possible reconciliation but your WW needs to be accountable for what she has done.All WS's do that is why we have the PBL with accompanying conditions on a return.

WW <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> "Whether we move forward together or not,we can settle this out of court"

Thanks, you are right, we are doomed without MC.

She is an incredibly selfish person, who apparently does not want to put the time and effort into this M. I don't why I am so giving, I guess I have alot of love in my heart still.

I will be okay no matter what happens, that I am sure of.

We shall see.

Happy Holidays....boy, what a bummer....

I know that you are hopeful.Believe me,anytime anyone of us here thinks there's a chance for a couple,we get so excited don't we? But we can't lose sight of what needs to happen first. If we all just wing it,aren't we doing the same thing that lead us into Infidelityland? We have to have a committment and a plan.

I wish chris would chime in here more and CY.I feel like I am personally sabotaging your hopes. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I will stop posting to you for now and let other's come in with their views.

Have a safe flight tonight.Take care.

O

Nature,


I am sorry , got busy this am with the holidays coming up. Read your discussion with 10Girl with interest. My opinion, 10Girl is right on the money.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> She is an incredibly selfish person, who apparently does not want to put the time and effort into this M. I don't why I am so giving, I guess I have alot of love in my heart still </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I whole heartedly agree with that statement but I think the root of that selfishness is in her controlling nature. She HATES you because she desparately wants what you can and have given her. SHE CAN NOT TOLERATE THAT NEED SHE FEELS FOR ANOTHER PERSON. SO THAT ANGER, HATE, & SELFISHNESS IS TRIGGERED BY THE PERSON SHE HAS PERMITTED TO GET THE CLOSEST TO HER TRUE SELF.

That , my friend ( through no fault of yours)is YOU!

Cy--interesting, I never thought of it that way.

Well, we are supposed to talk tonight. I doubt this will be anything different but my attorney indicated we can file a continuance with the court for 3 months as we try to work on our issues.

Well, we spoke nearly every day during the holiday period when I was with my family and she was with hers, it was our first Xmas apart.

She called a few days before Xmas and told me she wanted to contact her attorney and cancel the court date. I agreed. She said if we want to start this up again it will be up to us. I said yes, let's see how it goes, I asked her if she enjoyed talking to me, she said yes. We spoke later than night and through Xmas. She even called me late Xmas eve to wish me a merry Xmas one more time and said she was thinking about me.

Well, a slight difference this week after we returned to our respective homes. We spoke early in the week and I asked her if she had any plans for New Years Eve. She said no, I said would you enjoy entertaining your husband as I was contemplating booking a flight to see her, I told her I really wanted to see her again. She inquired about the cost of the flight and maybe it would be cheaper for her to come here, she would look into it but also mentioned she was run down from her travels and she was planning on visiting here in 2 weeks anyway.

Well, the trip never came together, it was expensive either way although I did offer to split the trip with her.

She returned to her home Wednesday from her Xmas family visit. I called her that night on her cell, she took the call, she was having dinner at a local restaurant she frequents, she was alone, we spoke for a few minutes about her upcoming trip out here, small talk, etc. She told me she would call later that night but either way asked for me to call her by 10 PM her time. I called at 1015 PM and left a message. I did not hear from her again but decided to call her later at 1230 PM, I woke her up, she apologized after I told her I called and left a message, she said she was tired and came home at 915PM and went to bed with the phone but did not hear it ring, she was sleeping. We talked briefly and she said she would call me the next day. Well, I never heard from her that day, nor New Years Eve. She calls me yesterday AM and leaves a message she was at her GF house the last 2 days, she is on her way home and for me to call her.

I call and ask what happened to you, you were supposed to call. She says she did not have to work Thursday, never went into the office (as I had left a message for her there) and she left to see her GF and did not have cell coverage where she was at. She said she was sorry, I was trying not to make this a big deal but of course am very confused at the moment as to where we stand.

I felt like I was again being lied to. Did she have cell coverage? This was the same crap I heard last year, but what do I really know? Anyway, we kept the talk light, her brother and a different GF were going to be visiting her last night and she would call me today after they left, which she did, just light talk, I asked her if she wanted to do anything special when she visits here in 2 weeks, she said maybe we will ski, I told her I would look into getting a possible hotel for one night, she said fine.

Am I and idiot or what? It seems like she changed her attitude this past week, I never heard the warmth in her voice I was hearing previously.

Thanks as always, I am trying to take this slow but it is hard.

Bumping for some insight, thanks.

I also will add the following to this.

She did call yesterday early afternoon after her brother and GF left. She was not feeling well and was on her way to the store to get some soup, milk, etc. She was then going to try and sleep through the afternoon. I told her it sounds like you need someone to take care of you, she asked what I would do if I was there. I told her I would cook the soup for you, tuck you into bed and make you take with sugar when you awake, sugar...she giggled a little and said she would call me later when she wakes up.

Well, of course, no phone call from her last night. I try calling about 5 times over 2-3 hours and cannot reach her. I went to sleep, woke up at 2:30AM my time and tried calling again. No answer. I finally left a message at 3:30AM (which is 5:30AM her time) that you obviously are not there, I have been trying to reach you several times, I would really like to know where you are at and please call me as we need to talk about us.

Still no call from her as of this moment.

I am totally guessing as to what happened but I feel she probably met someone Wednesday which led her to make some New Year's plans and didn't want to tell me. And, she has a holiday today and I am guessing she met up with this person last night and spent the evening with them. Who knows, I am guessing but this is what my gut instinct tells me.

I am planning on contacting my attorney today and get the ball rolling.

Am I too paranoid? What lame excuse will I hear this time around?