Thank you Bear and Bill.

Bear your right in that I don't want her to feel rejected because of the STD. But the FACT IS, that if she has one that is uncurable, that is a deal breaker for me, so that would be lie. Does that make sense? I know that there will be backlash from WW about the PI, invasion of privacy. But it can't get any worse really she already doesn't really care about me.

Bill, she has been tested and I know that she has been treated. Even if she agrees to this there are many, many things that I would need at this point in order to take her back.

As Bear said I guess this is basically a good time to just lay all the cards on the table.

Native,

I'd say run don't walk. This woman is dangerous to you and your children. Sheesh she gets an STD from screwing around and doesn't even tell her husband so he can be protected. Come on. What kind of person is this?

Have you confronted her on what she has? If she won't tell you, then tell her to hit the road. This is your safety your talking about.

Miker

Native-- You can still use the MB principles of no LBs, DJs, or AOs. Just that you need to be more confrontational in establishing your boundaries, deserving to know the truth, especially when it comes to matters of health, and her being accountable for her actions.

Up to now, have you established boundaries, voiced your displeasure? I don't know because we have talked about so much, just refresh me. Maybe she thinks you don't care because you LET her do whatever she wants. Does she want you to take some control? Think about these things.

Don't just lay down here. Confront her, make your statements of what you expect from her and what you are willing to offer in return.

Native, I had to get in my WW's face and flat dare her to divorce me, told her to go right ahead if she had the balls. Faced with reality, things are getting better, I think, tell ya in 6 months. But at least now I feel good about myself because I have now taken control of my life and stood my ground.

Depending on what she has, yeah it might be a deal breaker for me too.

As far as her not telling you. SHe hasn't told you not because she doesn't care, but because she doesn't want to get caught. She wants both lives. If she really hated, despised, wanted to hurt you, she would just leave you flat and take the kids. Fact is, that is why our WW hang around, on the fence, wanting it all. Either that, or she is just using you for free babysitting and financial support. I don't know, I was pretty blunt there but wanted to make a point. She needs to be confronted with all that you know and TOLD to make a choice. She needs you more than you need her, remember that.

Miker:I'd say run don't walk. This woman is dangerous to you and your children. Sheesh she gets an STD from screwing around and doesn't even tell her husband so he can be protected. Come on. What kind of person is this?

Miker she has been protecting me. She has told me many times that "it wouldn't be fair to have sex, because she doesn't know what she wants". Granted her reason that she gave was a lie, but the fact remains that she has not wanted me to have sex w/ her. I would like to think that she has been trying to protect me.

Bear:Up to now, have you established boundaries, voiced your displeasure? I don't know because we have talked about so much, just refresh me. Maybe she thinks you don't care because you LET her do whatever she wants. Does she want you to take some control? Think about these things.

Bear, I have told her a few times how it hurts me that she goes out, Her behavior is hurting me. I don't think I've set any boundaries, just been playing the Plan A game.

Basically I've been repressing the man I normally am to try and follow the MP principals. It has taken much out of me to surpress myself. Now there are going to be many MB's here that will say. Plan A is not being a doormat. I know, but I was trying to be the best H that I could I forgot that point.

I tell her all the time that I care about her. I don't see how she could believe that. Maybe she does/has wanted me to take control. She has always accused me of trying to control her though!

Not control her, stand up for yourself. There is a difference.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by native00:
Miker she has been protecting me. She has told me many times that "it wouldn't be fair to have sex, because she doesn't know what she wants". Granted her reason that she gave was a lie, but the fact remains that she has not wanted me to have sex w/ her. I would like to think that she has been trying to protect me.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't believe this for a second. Do you think she is having unprotected sex with others at these clubs she's going to? I bet yes. Sorry to sound so negative but this is going way, way, way too far. What would you suggest if this was me and you were on the outside looking in.

You have to get out of this mess. She is not good for you.

Just my opinion.

Miker

Miker- Yes, I would run if she does not change her behavior starting now. Native, use Noodle's mantra with her "This is the standard, there is the door."

Only if she changes her behavior, otherwise proceed to plan B. I just think she shoold know the real reasons why.

Yes I know standards and controlling are different, but to the WW that is not the case. However I cannot be held responsible for her fogged up thoughts and conclusions.

Miker you have an opinion just like everyone else. I respect that. That being said I know my WW better than anyone and I truly believe that she HAS protected me. As far as the other guys at the clubs? Well I don't know that she has or hasn't slept with them.

Bear I agree. I'm prepared to throw out the lifeline to her now. There will be no Plan A. There will only be Plan D from now on. If she chooses to accept the line that I throw, after all the cards are on the table, and I CHOOSE to take her back then maybe the M will work, maybe not. However if she flat out rejects my lifeline and continues. I am now at the point of saying that I have given my all and can do no more.

There will be no Plan B. I guess I'm breaking from MB principals again.

Native,

You have upped the ante re what you will accept from her in order to "recover".

This is a good thing, because, as many people could tell you, your previous standard was far too low and had "false recovery" written all over it.

So, why am I not happy?

Native..your REASON for upping the standard reeks of *punishment*. Are you punishing her for catching a disease? It really seems so.

I see that since the last time I checked..you have drawn a boundary..if the disease is permanent, you choose to end the marriage. This is good..you know where you stand, you know what you will work around and what you will not. It is healthy to negotiate from this place of strength..being honest with yourself..making decisions with fact and not sentiment.

Let's not confuse the two though.

What Native needs from his wife as I have read it..

1) With a cureable STD....full commitment to recovery..full turn around [it was never going to work any other way]

2) With an incureable STD....A divorce. Not because she has been *naughty* but because YOU choose to not risk your future this way. You love her, you're sorry, but no .

These are healthy boundaries...#1 could really lead to a complete recovery..#2 an amicable as possible divorce.

Consider THIS set of scenarios though..and contrast...

1) Wife does NOT have an STD...You welcome her home on substandard terms..happy to have her compliance with ANY chance of reconciliation.

2) Wife DOES have an STD [but cureable as per previous stipulations]...You raise the bar..based purely on her state of infection.

This is punishment. This will not get you anywhere you want to go. Whether she has or has not an STD is the hand of fate/divinity..in either case she mixed all of the ingredients..what has it changed for YOU?

Noodle

Noodle, as always your posts are greatly appreciated. Your right, I have upped the ante, maybe its because of the new information about her STD, maybe this new revelation has pulled me out of a fog, however I would like to believe it is because I have realized that this is not the man I was supposed to be. When I have a problem, I try and fix it. My marriage is a problem, I need to clear the air, lay it all out, whatever other cliche you want to throw out there. I am tired of letting the WW do the work, this is getting me nowhere fast. I'm going to put my conditions on what I will and won't accept (can anyone say boundaries??)

1) Wife does NOT have an STD...You welcome her home on substandard terms..happy to have her compliance with ANY chance of reconciliation.

Well I already know she does or else why would the CDC give her a treatment, so this point I really think is moot. Even if somehow she didn't, my standards/boundaries still stand. I have always had these boundaries, it's just that I never expressed them. I guess I was hoping that WW was going to see the light, through my Plan Aing. These boundaries/standards are not new, as any MB poster can attest too, these standards/boundaries are essential for a healthy M.

2) Wife DOES have an STD [but cureable as per previous stipulations]...You raise the bar..based purely on her state of infection.

As I said I have always had these standards/boundaries. I merely chose to allow the WW to "go out and find herself" to see the world for what it was and then have her choose to come back. All the while hoping that my Plan A would show WW what I have to offer. My sitch is not the typical A though, it was never about EN's only her maturity. We cannot control our spouses, so if they want to leave we have to let them. If they choose to come back then that's great, if not then that is their choice.

As far as why this sudden change in me... maybe this is the last straw. This is has shown me that WW is not going to change, she doesn't care about her own body so why would she care about me. It is now time that I tell her what I have always expected from a spouse and what I can give her, and if she can't live with that then... as you said "Theres the door"

Native,

I must have worded it poorly.

The point is..you have upped the ante BASED on her STD status. Prior to it, you would welcome her home on her terms..you have said so yourself..perhaps as an attempt to plan A?

I have assumed..just from what I read, that you meant you would welcome her home and into RECOVERY on her terms..until you discoverred her STD..now you want her to aim higher..this is what I meant with regard to punishment..the only change is her disease..which she could have gotten or not..because HER ACTIONS were the same in any case.

I'm glad of your decision to protect yourself..and to protect your boundaries..I just don't want you to lose the plot. Punishment gets you no where..it's a parent child relationship..I think we have seen enough immaturity from her..no need to encourage more. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Noodle

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by native00:
Miker you have an opinion just like everyone else. I respect that. That being said I know my WW better than anyone and I truly believe that she HAS protected me. As far as the other guys at the clubs? Well I don't know that she has or hasn't slept with them.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ok. You know what? Your WW is really starting to get me steamed so I'm going to back off right now.

Hang in there and do what YOU think is best for you and your kids.

Miker

Noodle I too think I have worded my post poorly. I would have taken WW back and into recovery if she verbally chose me and our M. I would have waited to see her meet my EN's, to change into the wife that she should be, to basically grow and mature into a wife and mother. I would have waited, but waiting still implies that those 'terms' would still have to be met. And the wait would not have been anything like my plan A. The wait would be upwards of a month only. That has always been my thought, as this was never an EN or abusive husband sitch. So I would expect those terms, and waited for a short while, even before I knew about the STD. Now that she has this all I have done is merely bumped the timeline for her to accept my terms. Maybe this is some sort of punishment, but as it stands now I think I have taken all the damage I can take, and I feel that it is now "Me" time. I guess I'm not as mature as I thought I was.

Miker:
I truly respect everyone's opinions on this board, including yours. Maybe I'm blinded by my love maybe I'm not. It has been known to happen. Do you really think that after 10 years together my WW would purposely expose me to an STD? I find that kind of behavior very disturbing. I just can't see that coming from her. Even though she is seriously messed up right now.

Native
been following this thread from the beginning and was not really sure you would appreciate a comment from a FWW right now, but I just had to say a few things afer reading all this.

I dont think your ww was protecting you deliberately at all. Why do you ask? Well from my own experience the Om & A and MY M & H were in two separate boxes. Like one to the left and one to the right. its not that I never thought of NOT protecting my H it just NEVER came up on my radar so to speak. In the fog of the A, the excitement of doing the forbidden all that Bull Sh*t we use as excuses, I really didn't think about it.

I expect it is much the same for your ww.
Now once she was tested in November and was treated she may have thought well thats another good reason for not having SF with 'him'.
But dont kid yourself on this native, it was probably not a deliberate act on her part.

And yes I was tested after the A before it told my H at a clinic. It was such a shameful and humiliating experience especially as I knew many of the health workers.

The only other thing I will say is that you really NEED to stand up for your kids right now. Her behaviour & lifestyle are dangerous to the health & welfare of not only you but YOUR kids.
A number of diseases are transmitted by things like skin to skin touch, towels etc, kissing those things I assume your ww does as a Mom.

I think you know most of my story working in child protection from previous posts to you & yes it triggers me off all the time BUT please be aware that child protection gets involved in these cases a lot because the health risks to the kids due to the parents behaviour - and yes we do remove kids from such situations. Its pretty horrible I can attest to for all concerned.
At least here YOU are free of this mess as such and can provide the safe stable home for them. However your WW behaviour may cost her the kids because its risky to the kids and guess what 'bingo' they already have evidence from CDC she is a high risk parent.

So what I am saying is that you need to put your kids ahead of what you feel and want with your WW UNTIL she can demonstrate all those things you listed.
I'm not going to advise you to D or not, you will need to decide it yourself, but please take into account your kids long term health, physical & mental as well.
Cripes these Affairs SUCK and I wish I had a time machine to go back & change things.
Well I'm saying a prayer for you native if thats ok, maybe, just maybe, ww will wake up.

You are only 27 years old. You have your whole life ahead of you. She has not stopped messing around.

Time for plan B. She is too dangerous. This really crosses the line-sounds almost like a sexual addiction.

I am very pro marriage, but this crosses the line. She is assulting you with an STD. Time to walk away-just because she didn't even bother to tell you. At the very least, plan b.

Hello Aussie,

Yes I would definately appreciate some advice from you and any FWW. Thanks for your perspective.

I dont think your ww was protecting you deliberately at all. Why do you ask? Well from my own experience the Om & A and MY M & H were in two separate boxes. Like one to the left and one to the right. its not that I never thought of NOT protecting my H it just NEVER came up on my radar so to speak. In the fog of the A, the excitement of doing the forbidden all that Bull Sh*t we use as excuses, I really didn't think about it.

I just find it hard to believe that she would have exposed me to this if I would have pushed for sex. Maybe your right though... I don't know.

I think you know most of my story working in child protection from previous posts to you & yes it triggers me off all the time BUT please be aware that child protection gets involved in these cases a lot because the health risks to the kids due to the parents behaviour - and yes we do remove kids from such situations. Its pretty horrible I can attest to for all concerned.

I don't want to threaten WW with taking the kids from her because she has an STD. I have spoken with Lemmonman and done research on my own. I believe that WW has either Chlamydia or one or two other types of STD. All are curable. However I don't know what all she's been tested for. I don't know about the big ones, HIV. I have to be strong for the kids. I'm going to confront my WW soon, I just have to put together a plan.

Aussie, when you were tested you said it was humiliating. Wasn't that a wake up call for you? Or where you already out of the fog at that point. I would think contracting an STD would pull anyone out of that stupid fog.

Thanks NJ,

Yes I also think that it is time for me to move. I've been doing the plan A for almost 3 months. It seems that I nor my Plan A, nor loosing her entire family is going to stop WW.

Now is the time for action, I have been putting off doing anything except my Plan A. Now is the time. I have to protect myself and the kids.

thanks NJ, native

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by native00:
<strong>I would think contracting an STD would pull anyone out of that stupid fog. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I would hope so too, Native.
Unfortunately I'm not so sure.
When I asked OW (my ex best friend) after D-Day why she was so stupid not to use a condom, not now and not in her previous A, she simply stated: "I'm believe I'm not the sort of person who will contract an STD." How's that for fog ? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Hi BH,

Sometimes the stupidity of people really amazes me. I just don't see how people can't let their emotions take control of them and allow them to hurt THEMSELVES. I'm sure my WW probably thought the same thing.... "I can do this, I'm in Idaho, there are no diseases in Idaho".

Well looks like she got a big dose of reality.