Ecxpa,

That was well said, and your right I believe that honesty and respect are very much needed. In fact SH talks about honesty so much in his books its amazing. Without honesty as we all know everything that is sacred in an M is thrown into jepordy. This is the root of "secret lives".

I think I have been honest and respectful in my M. However I do admit that I didn't tell my WW everything about my family and I can see now that it was wrong. However I thought I was protecting her, but again I see that I was wrong.

<small>[ December 25, 2004, 03:32 PM: Message edited by: Cherished ]</small>

Hi Cherished,

I was thinking about your post today on the way into work. How would I do the 15 hours per week. I was thinking about changing this and that, and making some other types of moves to accomodate the 15 hours. Then I thought, wait, I'm no where near this point. Oh well. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ December 25, 2004, 03:33 PM: Message edited by: Cherished ]</small>

native,

I filed for D because I didn't think my WW had any intentions of giving up the OM. I really didn't want a D but felt I could not live the way we had been living. The repeated false recoveries, and lies just were too much. I filed with the intentions of dropping it should my WW come around and put in a sincere effort toward saving our marriage and keeping our family together. Since that time, however, things have gotten worse. I just think our relationship has hit that point of no return. Too much has been said and/or done by both of us to go back.

Cherished:Divorce is not the worst outcome of a bad marriage. Living out your life in one is the worst outcome.

So very true... I don't know what's going to happen the week after Christmas, there is still some hope in me but it's barely a mustard seed.

MIF:I filed for D because I didn't think my WW had any intentions of giving up the OM. I really didn't want a D but felt I could not live the way we had been living. The repeated false recoveries, and lies just were too much. I filed with the intentions of dropping it should my WW come around and put in a sincere effort toward saving our marriage and keeping our family together. Since that time, however, things have gotten worse. I just think our relationship has hit that point of no return. Too much has been said and/or done by both of us to go back.

Hello MIF, haven't seen you in a while. Sorry to hear about your sitch, but it's most likely the best for you, although I could be wrong. Who knows I may find myself in the same sitch after the holidays.

native,

you know what? I went through a time where I didn't think I would make it through this. Well, now I know I will and I know my life will be better as a result. My WW and I have/had a lot of issues that we couldn't even begin to touch on with OM still in the equation. That was the first issue that had to be dealt with, but she couldn't/wouldn't do it. After that, I felt we could work on our others, but like I said, she wouldn't get rid of him. She kept saying it wasn't about him. If it wasn't him it would have been someone else, and I agree with that statement, but he is/was an issue and she needed to get rid of him for us to work on the rest.

Good luck to ya,

Hang in there

MIF?

Thanks MIF,

"It's not about him?" Man that is just about the stupidest thing I've ever heard. She's saying yeah we can work on our M, but it's also okay if I still have my OM. Geez, I'm really glad that you decided to move on MIF.

<small>[ December 25, 2004, 03:33 PM: Message edited by: Cherished ]</small>

Cherished,

I don't know if I want a separation or a D at this point. I want WW either to commit to the M, or take a stand for herself and make the freakin decision!!! I'm tired of this crap, it's been 3 months, how long does it have to take to make up your mind on something? If I was so abusive why not get it over with? I still don't know what I'm going to decided either, I have a big decision to make also that is totally separate from whatever WW decides.

<small>[ December 25, 2004, 03:34 PM: Message edited by: Cherished ]</small>

Thank you Cherished for you story. I'm not sure really sure if I still want to be with my WW. I'm not sure if I want to reconcile. I think I've reached my point, plus with the new development in her. Her new development doesn't really change how she reacts/treats me. Its just that she doesn't even care about herself so how could I believe that she would think of me.

I have a lot of prayer and counseling that I need to do in the next week with my Pastor. I just don't know anymore. As I reflect through my posts I can see the steady decline.... and I don't like it.

Thanks for your story Cherished!
Native

Native00 -

Keep the faith! You and I both know God can work miracles! I am praying for you!


TM

TM,

Thanks for the encouragment. I'm really trying as we all are. I'm trying to find out where I am in my soul. After 3 months of pain, and denying myself. I figured I'd do a gut check to see how much I have left and what I need.

Native

Native,

Take your time. There is no rush, no cause for alarm..well, ok..maybe cause..but it won't do any good.

It took me months of soul searching to reach the conclusion I did..and having people push one way only caused me to pull the other direction because I was not ready to make a choice..a lasting, permanent choice for myself yet .

As long as I was not putting myself or our kids at risk in the meantime..anyone who didn't like it..frankly..can go to hell. I have to live with my choices..um..oh..just say..forever. No rushing allowed. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Choices like this include a grieving process all their own..it must be respected. Some days you will feel one way..some days another..you know the drill..you bought the t-shirt..etc etc.

The important thing is not to act until you have come to a conclusion..and tried to live with that conclusion for a long enough time to be reasonably certain that it IS a conclusion and not a mood.

Pray..talk to many counselors..pastors..any and all whose opinions carry weight..don't be suprised when a lot of them disagree. Then chew on it yourself. Enter "no way out but through" and various other shallow cliches here.

Do get tested though..your best guess about your Wifes STD [my guess is syphilis based on the info you posted..if this is the case it is imperative that you be tested asap]isn't good enough..nor is the timeframe you speculate about. Be certain that you are well.

Noodle

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by native00:
<strong> Cherished,

I don't know if I want a separation or a D at this point. I want WW either to commit to the M, or take a stand for herself and make the freakin decision!!! I'm tired of this crap, it's been 3 months, how long does it have to take to make up your mind on something? If I was so abusive why not get it over with? I still don't know what I'm going to decided either, I have a big decision to make also that is totally separate from whatever WW decides. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Wow native, that sounds exactly like my situation. I was going insane because my WW couldn't make up her mind. Finally, I was able to make up my mind to move on. It took me about 3 months to reach the end of my rope too. Good luck to you. It will all work out in the end.
MIF?

<small>[ December 21, 2004, 01:56 AM: Message edited by: MIF? ]</small>

native00,

I've read most of this thread, and I'm just going to answer the original question you posed: For those that D'd, how did you know the love was gone?

I'm in my second marriage. I'm the one that filed for D in my first marriage. It took about three years of degradation before I was ready to file.

I knew the love was gone when I'd tried to communicate to my ex how I was feeling in every manner I could come up with, and he continually ignored what I was saying/doing. His behavior, over time, spoke volumes - and I was confident I'd done everything in my power to address the problems.

I wasn't angry, I was numb.
He'd say or do something sweet or hurtful, and it affected me less than if I'd seen it in a movie or read it in a book. I was totally devoid of feeling. I no longer cared.

I *did* still love the memory of the person I'd married, and I was sad to acknowledge that person was no longer a part of my life. I grieved that for a long time, and I questioned myself a long time - could I have forseen that he would turn into this type of person?

It was like a switch clicked. Once that happened, I never doubted that I would be happier, stronger, healthier, and more whole "out" of the marriage. And when the D was final, I felt freed.

You are pretty early into all of this, native, and from what I read you have lots of emotions turning inside of you. This is probably not a time to be making decsions to D. I get the impression that you are looking at D as a way to lock all the pain up in a box where you don't have to look at it.

oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy

I wish I could lock up all the pain in a box and bury it at sea never to be seen again.

I assume it is like falling in love you dont know how it happens it is just right there for I guess it is the same when you fall out of love its just right and no matter what the other person says you dont feel the pain of it any more as there words dont affect you.

Not there yet still drowing in the pain