Looking for some insights here on forgiveness. Moreover, when have you “truly” forgiven someone? I mean, we can all say “I forgive you” and not really mean it. But when do you know if you honestly, really have forgiven someone? Allow me to explain my ponderence of this…

For about 6 months or so I have been praying and praying to find it in myself to forgive not just my WW, but the OM as well. Finally, I felt I had reached a place where it was time to tell WW that I had forgiven her. So, I did… just so happened that it was our anniversary (our son had a school conference that night). I told her, and I meant it. It didn’t seem to impact her whatsoever… but it was very liberating for me.

The problem is, I don’t know if I can honestly say to myself that I have forgiven her. I still feel animosity towards the two of them. I still have thoughts of doing him great bodily harm. I still sometimes want to see her suffer for what she’s done. I find myself still wanting revenge at times. Not all the time… but there are days where I want her to hurt as bad as she hurt me. So, have I forgiven her?

I want to forgive her. I really, really want to. I want to have zero animosity, zero bitterness, zero emotions whatsoever for them or about what they did. I want to be able to hear his truck start up (the @sshole live 150 ft. from my door) and not feel a thing… Usually, however, I feel a twinge in my spine… the bile in my gut… the hairs on the back of my neck stand up… and I want to hurt him. Badly.

The point is, I don’t want to feel these things anymore. I want to forgive and forget. That’s what happens when God forgives us of our sins… they are as far from his memory as the East is from the West. Jesus died on the cross to forgive us of our sins… it seems the least I can do to forgive the WW and OM. And I want to… I just don’t know if I have, or how to. Any thoughts? Anyone else know what I’m talking about? It just feels like it is a touch hypocritical to say I forgive her, to outwardly act forgiving to her, when deep down inside… I’m not all that sure it is true. Am I just going nuts?

I feel you! It's hard to forgive someone who destroyed so much that you valued. But to forgive is the only option. If you don't you won't be able to love again or truly live again. Forgiving is about YOU letting it go. Your WW may never wake up--that's sad. You have a choice to let her and OM own you by holding on to the pain or release them throgh forgiveness.

Feel your pain. Acknowlege it. It's natural. When you have truly moved throgh that space, start to release. I'm nowhere close to there myself, but I know that's the only path to happiness.

YOU. CAN. DO. THIS.

blessings

dlc

<small>[ December 21, 2004, 03:24 PM: Message edited by: dleightonc ]</small>

dlc,

I hear ya... and I concur. Thought I was getting there, hence my telling her that I forgive her. But, it is more than just words. I have this philisophical idea of what forgiveness is... when you have NO negative emotions of animosity over what that person did. I'm not there yet.

You see, I go thru life and consciously make the effort to let it go, to not dwell, to focus on the future... but sometimes it is like a triggered resoponse. I will see her car over there, or hear his truck, or the worst is when one of the kids will mention him... it is a pavlovian response... only I don't drool, I feel rage. I'm a big boy, I don't let it get the better of me... I focus on other things and let the fire die out. But I can't seem to rid myself of the response itself. So, have I truly forgiven them?

Is forgiveness all in the intent? Maybe in the intent and actions? or do i have to know it to be true in ever fiber of my being? Is it hypocritical of me to say I forgave her? Sure feels like it sometimes.

<small>[ December 21, 2004, 03:36 PM: Message edited by: Want My Wife Back??? ]</small>

I don't believe you truly forgave them.

Janis Spring, author of After the Affair, has a new book out called How Can I Forgive You? I'm anxious to read this book, because from what I've seen of it, it deals with this problem well.

Check out Janis Spring's website.

And here
is a place where you can hear an interview with Ms. Spring.

I think she really knows what she's talking about.

GC

Don't kick yourself if you are not "there" yet. It is honorable that you are making the effort. You may alway feel some pain. but you don't always have to let it own you.

Step by step.

<small>[ December 21, 2004, 08:15 PM: Message edited by: dleightonc ]</small>

check out this thread by ForeverHers Forgiveness, trust

I'm not really kicking myself... rather realizing the reality and trying to figure out what I need to do to get "there". How does one forgive such a painful betrayal and destruction of their family? I know I need to, infact I need to love them as I love myself... which will undoubtably be an even greater feat. For now though, I'd be content with ambivilance. I would be comfortable in saying I forgave them if I reached a place of not giving a damn one way or the other what they were up to. How does one get there?

You see, this isn't even for them... this is for me. I know I need to forgive and forget for me to ever even begin to heal from this. On kind of a side note, the other night the kids had a Christmas program for school. WW and myself were there. She started to tell me about OM's mom being sick, so I cut her off in mid sentance and told her that it was more than I wanted to hear, sort of enforcing my boundaries. She got all indignant and asked what happened to my spirit of forgiveness? I told her that Just because I forgave them didn't mean that I liked him or what they are doing. I continued saying that I realized that me forgiving them didn't change a whole lot... but then again, they didn't have to answer to me. She kinda sat there and gave me this blank look, like she wasn't sure what I was talking about... then she got this even blank-er look like she did know what i was talking about... only hadn't ever considered that to be the case. It was kinda funny I thought.

man, i feel your pain.i told my wife shortly after DD that i can and will forgive her. and i have the same doubts as you. i think it is part of the healing process. it is exactly 9 weeks since DD for us, and i find my self SLOWLY being able to forgive her. it will not happen overnight. i am also realizing the difference in forgiving and forgetting. i would hope to move past this and do both, but i think forgetting is harder. i know they go hand-in- hand, we need to do both. it is an honorable thing that you truly want to forgive them both, i tip my hat to you. i do know exactly how you feel , as i am sure many on this site do. i also feel for you in the OM living so close, i am afraid i couldn't deal with that. the OM in my case is 1000 miles away, and i think that is to close. you know, god will not put more on us then we are able to bear.you are right about jesus' forgivness, he is the ultimate example, and i commend you for trying to do the right thing. like i tell our kids, " doing the right thing is not always the easy thing". hope your situation turns out good, and thanks for starting this thread, interesting topic, curious to here from more experienced people then me. take care,...arjdad

WMWB, I think it is good enough for now that you want to forgive them.

I am not convinced that the remorseless can be forgiven. I appreciate how people may interpret the things taught by various religions, but... still not convinced.

All you Christians out there, what did Jesus say on the cross? He didn't say "I forgive them," he said, "Father, forgive them."

In any case, there is no need to hurry forgiveness. I told my wife I planned to forgive her, but it was not the whole truth, because I didn't tell her the "IF" part. And you bet there was an "IF".

Now, I don't know. I also don't have to decide today.

GC

GC,

Believe me... every night I pray for God to forgive and save them both... for they obviously don't realize what they are doing. I pray EVERY NIGHT for my WW's salvation. But as a Christian, it my first mission on Earth to be "like Christ". That being the case, "I" need to forgive them as well... for (to quote a much overused cliche) that is what Jesus would do.

Oh, Arjdad, if you were forgiving at 9 WEEKS... dude, you are a better man than me. It has been over a year for me... and I'm only begining the journey.

<small>[ December 21, 2004, 04:37 PM: Message edited by: Want My Wife Back??? ]</small>

WantMyWifeBack?---How can you say that saying those words to your wife was liberating for you, if you truly had not fogivven her? Why did you say those words if you had not reached forgiveness yet? To look good in your wife's eyes? To look like the good guy that forgave his wife? It did not make a big impact on her, because she felt you did not mean those words.

My husband also said those words to me way before he meant them. And to this day, even though things are much better between us, he has not completely forgiven me. There is still,I think, some resentment in him towards me.

But I dont think he wants to do bodily harm to the OM anymore. He had those feelings for some time though. I think you being so young, makes you more impulsive . I think that as time goes by and you mature more, those feelings will fade away. Forgetting is harder to do, because those memories are hard to erase from your mind. But that too, as time goes by, will hurt you less and less, until is only an unpleasant memory, but it will not hurt you anymore.

What you have in your favour is that you are both very young, and you can built new good memories from now on. Pretty, sweet,loving memories that will take away the sour taste of her affair.

Take Care!!

MYRTA

Myrta...

Ok, first off... I DID think I meant it. For the most part I still do. But I have begun to ponder the hypocrisy of have impulsive rage from time to time... seems to me that shouldn't happen if i truly forgave her. Hence, the reason for my post! I didn't do it for her whatsoever... I said it because I felt that way, and I felt I needed to tell her... for ME. I can honestly say this... I REALLY, REALLY don't care what she (or the OM for that matter) think of me. It was NOT for her.

Secondly, I can say it was liberating because it felt like a giant wieght was lifted from my shoulders. I felt free from the darkness, free from the anger, free from the resent. Maybe (as it would appear now... a month and a half after the fact) not entirly free... but a hell of a lot free-er than I had prior. It felt good to tell her I forgave her. It still does. Maybe I wasn't totally ready to say it... but I did. And I do forgive her... I'm jusr wondering on a philisophical level if it IS total forgiveness or maybe there is a part of me that hasn't scabbed over yet... and thus can't bear forgiveness just yet.

Thanks for the input... but perhaps i wasn't clear on what I meant. It certainly wasn't impulse... I had been praying for strngth for over 6 months.

Look out, WMWB, 'cause if Pep finds this thread and feels "typey" she may have something to say on the question of whether Christian forgiveness is meant to be given unconditionally. I wish she would chime in.

I think if forgiveness is one-sided; that is, if you say "I forgive you" but the offender does not say "please forgive me" and attempt to help you heal, then it is a different phenomenon. Whereas forgiveness in which both parties are engaged is a real, active process, this one-sided forgiveness is an invisible psychological "balm", and may be a mirage.

Whether or not you think that the solitary sort of forgiveness is "real", you have to admit, forgiveness done alone is not the same as forgiveness given to a remorseful offender who wishes to make amends.

GC

This whole issue brings up a question that I have been internally wrestling with for awhile.

My wife and I have teenage kids. They are very astute. They were never told however, ever since the affair, they have expressed deep anger towards my wife. Attitude can't be explained away as typical teenage behavior.

Just the other day I was having a talk with one of them after a "disagreement" with mom. I was asked pointedly, "Did Mom cheat on you?"

Needless to say I was caught completely off guard. My instinct was to lie but I didn't know what they knew. I probably should have said," you need to talk to Mom about that."

I ended up partially telling the truth and partiall lying. I told her," if you define cheating as having a friend of the opposite sex that becomes closer to you than your spouse, then yes. If it's the traditional definition then, no."

I lied not to protect my wife, but I have teenage girls and I was worried that they have enough pressure on them (thanks to all of the high school issues) without shouldering more burden.

Any thoughts? On what I said as well as future conversations????

Ok this leads to more questions.

The OM and his W have younger children. I think like 10ish and 6ish.

I hate to admit this in the public forum but I will for the sake of discussion:

Now that my kids know I feel as though someday his should. My wife is no longer on the pedestal so why should he be? They've lost some of their innocence.

I guess I'm just venting a bit here.

Mac

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by graycloud:
Look out, WMWB, 'cause if Pep finds this thread and feels "typey" she may have something to say on the question of whether Christian forgiveness is meant to be given unconditionally. I wish she would chime in.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">really???

Why me??? Pep

<small>[ December 21, 2004, 06:38 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Pep, I recalled you having some strong opinions on the subject in a thread a few months back. Do I have somebody else mistaken for you?

GC

What about this -

Our Father who art in heaven
Hallowed be thy name
Thy kingdom come
Thy will be done
On earth as it is in heaven
Give us this day, our daily bread
And FORGIVE us our debts
AS we FORGIVE our debtors
Lead us not into temptation
But deliver us from evil
for Thine is the kingdom, and the power
and the glory forever.
Amen

<small>[ December 21, 2004, 08:11 PM: Message edited by: weaver ]</small>

I'm a Christian but not really a bible thumping Christian. However I love Jesus' lessons, they were given only out of love.

And Jesus asked us to do ONE thing, his ONE command was to love one other and this means to forgive one another because that IS love. This is one area I feel very strongly about because it is our salvation on earth, as anyone who has harbored hate and resentment in their hearts knows.

It is a process Want, and I think it takes a lot of time. Someday the hurt will be gone, but only if you can find a way to forgive. I think forgiveness is the key, and I don't have the rest of my life to wait around for remorse which may never come.

It's a horrible, heineous thing to be hurt so badly that we can't even stand the anger and hate because it hurts almost worst than the betrayal. It's so hard.

It sounds to me like you are doing great Want.

I believe that forgiveness is a decision, not a feeling. I decided to forgive my WH and OW, and I have. Neither one is really sorry, as they are still carrying on. However I don't think it is necessary for the other person to be sorry to forgive them.

Go ahead Pep.