Or, perhaps having the divorce on file is insulation? You fear being more hurt if you commit to saving your marriage, so you keep the D on file?

Or, you really are sick of this situation and you are ready to D, but you'd really, really like for her to come clean so you can be completely justified in D?

You can't have it both ways. Wish you could.

just ideas
PM

legato,
That is what I admittidly tried to do when I originally filed for D on 12-2-04. It didn't work, obviously, and on 12-18-04 I accepted the fact that my marriage will end in D. I am okay with that, but felt that *if* my WW could start being honest about what is really going on I would be willing to give it one more shot. She doesn't see it that way. She says I am trying to control her. Well, yeah in a way. Trying to control her away from the mothership and back to reality.

MIF?

MIF,

Just going to respond to your particular approach to evidence..since I am not terribly familiar with your story.

The "hold back" approach is an excellent method of smoking out whether she is being genuine or still trying to fence sit IF it is used correctly.

You have info that you are not revealing..good for you..this will be necessary because..

..she says she wants to work on the M.

NOW..if you tell her that IN ORDER to work on the M..step 1 is for her to come clean..and she AGREES..then you have a tool you can use.

Ever read the BS who just find that the hole keeps getting deeper and deeper, because the WS only *confesses* to what they have indisputably been guilty of? That's why..the BS gave up the info too early. The WS knew what could still be concealed.

If she refuses on principle [too controlling..although..actually, lies are what is controlling..she is attempting to control your actions by disallowing you access to what she KNOWS you would consider relevant info] then you already have your answer..she is only willing to continue on HER terms at this time..more of the same.

If she agrees, but fails to disclose..you have your answer.

If she agrees AND gives full account..you might be able to move on from there.

There IS no alternative. She either is or is not willing. Anything else is just Blah Blah Blah Blah yadda yadda butt coverring smoke misdirection. So do not be yourself mislead or deceived. Recognize fog talk for what it is and reach your own conclusion. Then make a plan.

Noodle

OK, MIF, I understand your logic. Three months is all you have to try for your daughters?

What are the divorce rules in your locale? Because you have minor children, is there a mandatory one year separation period, as is commonly the case? If so, the one year can usually be waived in cases filed on the basis of adultery. Of course, you have to be able to prove the infidelity - which requires either an admission or proof of predisposition and opportunity, e.g., pictures of them kissing and a hotel receipt. I gather you have none of this since we're having this discussion involving evidence, or lack thereof.

WAT

MI is a no fault state. I won't have to proove anything. I think with kids there is a minimum 6 month period, so if all things go smoothly we can be done in June.

MIF, what about the kids, do you have any idea about custody? Just curious being a betrayed H with a little guy.

6 months separated?

The point I'm getting to is that you could very well benefit from Plan B. But this requires a separation. If you have to separate for 6 months before the divorce, you should immediately go into Plan B.

The other benefit of separation prior to divorce involving kids - if you know you're headed that way - is that the parents and the kids get a taste of what divorce will be like. A test drive.

Ever buy a car without test driving it first? Pretty stoopid, huh?

WAT

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> *if* my WW could start being honest about what is really going on I would be willing to give it one more shot. She doesn't see it that way. She says I am trying to control her. Well, yeah in a way. Trying to control her away from the mothership and back to reality </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Certainly complete honesty is a hard and fast requirement for recovery. The fact that she is not there yet does not mean that she never will be.

It's completely your decision whether to end this marriage but I have to second WAT here; you've created an ultimatum here; complete honesty or I'm outa here.

I understand your pain; the lying, the betrayal... it hurts like hell. But you know what? It won't kill you.

Just do me one one favor; make sure you're considering what's best for everyone involved here, not just what is best for MIF. You have a family and it's your responsibility to decide what's best for all of them.

Why can't my WW think about what's best for our family? Why do I have to do that? How come she can think about what is best for her and I have to think about what's best for our family? She thinks what's best for her is for us to stay together and for me to allow her to keep her so-called "platonic friend". I am so frustrated with her actions I can not begin to describe. That is why I came to the acceptance to divorce. I just figured *if* she could get her head out of her a$$ we might still be able to save this and *if* she were able to get her head out of her a$$ I would give it another try. She can't seem to do that so I guess I should let it go. I do plan on going plan B once the legal separation comes down. Yes, she filed to have me removed from the house and I don't intend on fighting it. I will not speak with WW except for children related stuff.

MIF?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why can't my WW think about what's best for our family? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Duh. cause she's an alien.

Look, man, I totaly understand. You're fed up. You've had enough.

What? She filed to have you removed from the house? On what basis?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by MIF?:
[QB] she filed to have me removed from the house and I don't intend on fighting it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Call me stupid....but on what grounds can she have you removed from the house?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Mental/emotional/verbal abuse.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by MIF?:
<strong>Yes, she filed to have me removed from the house and I don't intend on fighting it.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding!!!!!!

THIS IS ONE THING YOU HAVE TO FIGHT AND YOU PLAY TO WIN!!!!

This is where the evidence in your hip pocket becomes real valuable.

Fight like hell on this, MIF. How can you possibly lose if you have good goods on her?

WAT

<small>[ December 23, 2004, 02:51 PM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Mental/emotional/verbal abuse </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So are you guilty of this?

She claims I am

<small>[ December 23, 2004, 03:04 PM: Message edited by: MIF? ]</small>

MIF,

I just read the part about 3 children and the emotion in your thread about Christmas. Last year's Christmas was like that for me too, though the full details weren’t realized for a few days after.

I can't fault you for demanding the truth or it being a prerequisite for working on the marriage. I think the techniques for evaluating her truth are acceptable as well.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You ask if I really want a divorce. I do, at least from this alien that has taken my wife from me. If my wife could kick the alien WW from her system I would be willing to work on our M again. I just don't see that happening.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think WAT's suggestion regarding Plan B is appropriate. The time in Plan B will help you in removing the emotion from your decision, It also will allow the glow to fade from her affair. Your W may surface and be willing to “confess” and work on the family. A divorce with 3 children will not be easy on anyone.

Are you working the street? Sleeping during the day with 3 kids around is tough. Throw court into the mix and the inevitable OT.....whew. You may satisfy your sense of justice by divorcing your wife, but it will be costly. Plan B may give everyone some perspective.


And listen to WAT regarding the house....may have HUGE implications regarding custody issues.

Tough having no control of someone...isn’t it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by MIF?:
[qb] </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Just a suggestion....You might want to delete the last post considering she lurks here!!! Legal stuff and all!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

<small>[ December 23, 2004, 03:05 PM: Message edited by: InLikeFlynn ]</small>

OK, I did too until I came here and found out how to do Plan A.

So, you have not done Plan A, correct?

Yes, I tried plan A for 3 months. To no avail

MIF

<small>[ December 23, 2004, 03:05 PM: Message edited by: MIF? ]</small>

.

<small>[ December 23, 2004, 03:05 PM: Message edited by: InLikeFlynn ]</small>