I changed the title again - hoping that somebody would read or post here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

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My W threw her engagement/wedding ring in a canal at DisneyWorld.

Perfect!

My W has been asking for a trip to NYC for a couple of years - and she really wanted to go this Christmas season. I had been telling her that we couldn't afford it right now. But, I decided to take out a loan and try to make her happy for a few days.

So, we went to NYC.

I planned everything, bought tickets, arranged hotel. We saw a couple of broadway shows, the Nutcracker at NY City Ballet, a museum or two - shopping on 5th avenue, chinatown etc.

She really enjoyed it - although there were some of her trademark meltdowns - about one per day. My W suffers from something like PTSD, and consequently, in stressful situations she sometimes becomes extremely irritable and irrational. I've gotten better at handling it and try not to take her LB's personally.

After 4 days in NYC, we flew down to Orlando for 2 days down there. We had our 4-year-old with us and I figured after 4 days of museums and being pushed around in the cold in a stroller, we owed a couple of fun days to our child.

So, there we were at DisneyWorld. W was full of her usual irritability. It was crowded - with the kids out of school - and lines were long. W was shopping at a "gift shop" (that's what we call 'em, but I suspect they call them a revenue enhancement). She asked my opinion of a small pile of trinkets she had collected to buy. I gave my honest answer. I realize I could have said it differently. It might even have been OK. I replied (to the $80 pile of mickey stuff) "I think it will still be in the bag a month from now". I should have said "Well, those are cute things. But in my experience, things like that often lose their appeal quickly, so that, when I buy them, a few days later I wonder why I bought them." .... or something like that. But I said "I think they'll still be in the bag a month from now.".

W told the cashier that she didn't want the items and walked out of the gift shop. I know her pride was hurt.

As she walked angrily past the beautiful phoneyness of Disney, she tossed her engagement/wedding ring into a canal.

When I reallized what she had done, I just picked up our child and headed for the exit - with W trailing along behind dragging the stroller. In that moment, I just wanted to fly home and get on with the divorce.

I didn't want to do anything for her.

Then, she talked me into taking her out to dinner. I felt so stupid for allowing her to get to me as usual.

She did say she regretted it - that at least it was a diamond and even if it didn't mean anything to her, she regretted the financial loss. I'm just disgusted by her.

The next day was better - at SeaWorld.

Still, I thought that as soon as we got home, I would start moving.

Within an hour of our arrival home, W's girlfriend - nice Christian girl (29) - never married, who had been "not calling" for a month or so, called. Big news. She's pregnant by a guy who's been divorced about two months. He says he'll marry her.

I'm thinking: Good for him. He got out of a bad marriage. His W had an affair. They divorced, and a few months later, he's started over with a new family.

And why shouldn't I just toss in the towel and do the same thing?

There are a lot of lonely women in the world - and almost none of them would treat me as badly as my W does.

So, that's where I am.... tired of trying to be the good guy and getting nothing but disrespect and misery.

I posted this, then deleted it - now posting it again.

I don't often lately post about my situation, but I've been "on MB" for 3.5 year and used to post a lot about my situation.

My W seems to have pushed OM back a bit in recent months - basicly telling him to go get rich and then check back with her. He can't even support himself right now - foreign student, lives on illegal work and handouts from his brother. I thought our situation was improving.

-AD

<small>[ January 10, 2005, 12:34 PM: Message edited by: AD ]</small>

^

Hmmm - another Disneyland story. Lots of people going there this year. Sheesh, I would see if I could get the ring back - they must have filters there.

How long has it been since D-day?

AD, i don't know your sitch., but i can honestly say i think i can relate. sometimes i think it would just be easier to throw in the towel and quit. how could it hurt any worse? but then i remember that i do still love her and i do still want our M to survive. i feel for you and everyone else going thru these things, especially this time of year. thank GOD i have friends here to encourage and support me. keep your chin uo, it will get better...arjdad

Believer,

Thanks for posting.

I called the "lost and found" number and described the place - saying it accidentally flew off her hand because it was a cold day and it was loose etc...

They're gonna have somebody poke around.

As for "D day"..... OM has been part of our marriage from the first month.

Actual, PA began about 3 years ago after he moved to this country. Supposedly, there were only two PA occations. Mostly, it's a soulmate thingy.

Long story.

Anyway, I do thank you for replying. I am lonely.
Going home now. I suppose we have to "play Christmas" for our child.

-AD

<small>[ January 07, 2005, 02:58 PM: Message edited by: AD ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by arjdad:
<strong> AD, i don't know your sitch., but i can honestly say i think i can relate. sometimes i think it would just be easier to throw in the towel and quit. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Arjdad,

Thanks also for posting. My sitch is a long story with some unusual twists. I used to post alot about 3 years ago, but now I rarely say anything about my situation. It had seemed to improve lately, but now I'm so tired....

My W was born in a war, and was the survivor of a massacre at the age of 5, then orphanage, adoption, abusive adoptive mother, sent overseas (here to USA at 17 to study), broke her back in a fall (actually she jumped because she didn't want to go to USA), married me at 19 when I was 40 (yeah, I know, stupid thing for me to do).

She's my first everything.
We have a 4-year-old child.

W is suffering from something like PTSD - really jumpy, depressed, constantly irritable, sometimes suicidal - very hard to live with, never satisfied with anything or anybody.

OM was a internet and phone guy for awhile, but came here to pursue her. He's still in town 3 years later.

She says she doesn't want a divorce, but will never love me etc. etc.

That's a really really quick summary.

-AD

<small>[ December 23, 2004, 04:50 PM: Message edited by: AD ]</small>

It's not that I think I "deserve" better, but I think I could easily find a better situation. I'm not that bad of a guy, really.

I'm really going home now (I think).

-AD

<small>[ December 23, 2004, 04:52 PM: Message edited by: AD ]</small>

AD:

I'm so sorry 2 hear that things haven't improved in all this time. I missed your "update" so I don't know what happened.

Just hope that you and your family have a good Christmas. Sometimes you just have 2 be a little insistent that YOU will enjoy yourself, even if your WW wants 2 wallow in self-pity.

best,
-ol' 2long

2Long,

Thanks so much for dropping in!

To repeat the story, we were at DisneyWorld a couple of days ago. W threw her ring into a canal because she was miffed about something I sed.

It was kind of a last straw for me.

I tried to give her a nice vacation - and it was pretty good overall. Then that, and not only that, but the only SF on the trip she sed (the next day) that she was thinking of OM while she was with me - and a lot of other disrespectful things. I'm just so tired.

... and when we got home, W finds out that her girlfriend, who's a good Christian girl (29) is prego by a guy who's been divorced about 2 months only. His W had an affair, etc etc. They've got two kids. His W moved out with kids. They D'ed. Now he's got instant family with a new girl. They're going to get married (W's friend says).

So, I'm thinking... I don't approve of what he's doing, but it's working for him so why shouldn't I do the same?

Why shouldn't I do the same?

-AD

<small>[ December 23, 2004, 05:04 PM: Message edited by: AD ]</small>

AD:

Because you don't approve of what he's doing, is why.

You have morals

You have integrity

Assuming you're somehow made aware of where this guy and his "new girl" and instant, new family are in a 2ple of years, I'd be willing 2 bet that you'll thank your lucky stars you haven't chosen a similar path.

best,
-ol' 2long

Don't do the same! Since this has been going on for 3 years, its time you start to let her live by her choices.

Ask her for NC letter, and to work on your marriage together. If that is not acceptable to her, then go into Plan B. See if her "hero" can full her ENs. If, at the end of another 18 months, nothing changes, file for divorce. Through all of this, keep your child.

I know, easer said than done. But you have to start, or you will be back in another 3 years with the same problems.

Don't let the age thing hinder progress. One of my daughters and her husband has about the same age difference, and they are very happy together.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by AD:
<strong>


Why shouldn't I do the same?

-AD </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">because regardless of how you are treated, you obviously still have love left for your wife...

THAT'S why you shouldn't do the same...


just my 2 cents
Dylan

2long,

Thanks again for posting on my thread. I don't often bring up my own problems here - just seems too tiring to try to explain my life. It's nice to get some response.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 2long:
<strong>Because you don't approve of what he's doing, is why.

You have morals

You have integrity
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But, 2long, what have my morals and integrity gotten me? Misery, mostly.

You see, I'm the kind of guy who always wanted to do the right thing - probably because one of my emotional needs is to be respected - to be considered a "good guy". But... my W doesn't really give me that. To her, I'm still the bad guy - so why not just give up trying to be the good guy - since it hasn't paid off in the way that I would like?

Can you see my perspective?

As for the boyfriend (newly divorced) of our friend... if the guy is telling the truth, he was actually (almost) divorced when he met our friend - his wife moved out in May and he met our friend in August. So, I'm not sure his integrity is all that low, really.

Yes, we were concerned about this relationship and wanted to tell her to be careful - but didn't. She's only heard his side of things (re his former marriage and x-wife).

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Assuming you're somehow made aware of where this guy and his "new girl" and instant, new family are in a 2ple of years, I'd be willing 2 bet that you'll thank your lucky stars you haven't chosen a similar path.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yeah, I know. I'm pretty sure we'll see the blow-by-blow. The girl's our friend - was maid of honor in our wedding, W's old room-mate, from w's home town back in "the old country" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . She confides in my W.

Her parents never married, and now she's in the exact place her Mom was 30 years ago - except the guy says he wants to marry her, and I think he will do so.

-AD

<small>[ December 27, 2004, 01:05 PM: Message edited by: AD ]</small>

Update...

I'm feeling a little better now.

I went out and bought my W a little jewelry for Christmas. She was surprised by the gift because we had kinda said that the trip was our gift for this year. She asked pointedly when I bought it. She was surprised and pleased that I bought it after the Disney fiasco. She said "I don't much like rings, but I never threw away any earrings".

I'm playing it down the middle right now.

I still think I'll go talk to a lawyer - to find out what kind of settlement I'm likely to recieve. I've got a very nice IRA which I would like to keep - since I'm 20 years older than my w and would like to retire in about 15 years. Also, I have a house in my name that I've owned for almost 20 years and in which W lived for only 2.5 years. I think I have a good chance of keeping it. So, if the settlement is something like I give W 20% of my IRA and basicly everything else we own and I get to keep my old house (not where we live now) and the rest of my retirement accounts, I think I might go for that.

I'll take "standard visitation". I don't think I can handle much more than that and still work. I don't see any advantage of our child being in day care while supposedly staying with me - when she could be with her Mom instead.

I would miss my daughter more than anything. The high point of my day is driving into the garage and seeing my little girl open the kitchen door and shout "Papa!". I don't know if I can cope with not seeing that every day. I don't know if I can live with hurting her - and messing up her life. Divorce is devestating on kids.

Right now, I feel a little reckless - as if I don't have much to lose. I'm sure that's not true. I do have a lot to lose.

I feel strangely that I can take care of my W while at the same time planning to D her. It's weird - as if it were a game or something.

I was over looking at the other house yesterday. The roof is leaking again. I've had a new roof on it and called the roofers out twice to fix the leak in the new roof. It's going to cost maybe $1500 to repair the damage inside. The house is great otherwise. I'd better get on the phone to those guys.

I'm thinking of starting drinking. I've been a "T-totaler" all my life. Why not tune up my social skills and learn about wines and stuff?

-AD

<small>[ December 27, 2004, 11:22 AM: Message edited by: AD ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by RAG:
<strong> Ask her for NC letter, and to work on your marriage together. If that is not acceptable to her, then go into Plan B. See if her "hero" can full her ENs.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">RAG,

Thanks for your comments - sorry I didn't reply to them earlier. I did read them. Plan B seems a bit out of place right now - since we have a small child - and since OM is mostly out of the picture. She has pushed him off quite strongly, but still hasn't said "I never want to see or hear from you the rest of my life". She certainly hasn't told him that she loves me - she hasn't even told me that. I've told her what I want in that regard. I don't think it likely I'll get it.

But maybe some kind of Plan B type thing might be in order. I could move to the other house. The heat's on there anyway. All I would need is to get internet and phone service in there. I'm sure that if I do that, she'll try to move there too and suggest that we sell the "big house" we live in now. It would be difficult to keep her out. She can really blow up if she feels that she is being rejected/ignored. She can be violent at times.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>
Don't let the age thing hinder progress. One of my daughters and her husband has about the same age difference, and they are very happy together. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But... your daughter probably feels that she married him of her own free will. My w married me to please her Mom - who wanted an American son-in-law. From her perpective, her parents made her marry me. She doesn't remember being in love with me. (I have at least one letter to me which she wrote, and which could only have been written by a woman in love, but what matters now is what's in her head.)

-AD

Dylan (soulloss),

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by soulloss:
<strong> ... because regardless of how you are treated, you obviously still have love left for your wife...

THAT'S why you shouldn't do the same...
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks for your comments. I guess you are right. I do love her - but not in the way I used to. I don't respect her. I don't much enjoy spending time with her. We rarely have ever had fun together. But, I do, in a way, love her.

But that is a kind of trap.

I could love somebody else too - and if that somebody else could love me, then I don't think I would look back.

-AD

AD,

Be absolutely, positively sure that you have no more hope in saving/rebuilding your marriage before you proceed with divorce.

TMCM

CoffeeMan!

Thanks for stopping in.

You are right, of course (as usual).

I'm just so tired of hearing her say "I'll never love you. Just accept it." - and she doesn't want a D.

I'm so tired of her constant negativity and irritablility. I'm tired of having OM pop into our lives every couple of months.

W is the kind of person who, if she quite rightly confronts somebody, she still feels guilty about not being nice to them. So, the fact that she had harsh works with OM last time (that I know of) they spoke means that sooner or later she has to tell him she's sorry. I'm surprised that she hasn't done so already. Maybe she has. Usually, I can guess when she's had contact with him, but maybe she's getting better at hiding it.

Strangely enough, W has been talking about having another baby. The fact that her friend is pregnant makes her want it a bit more. If she wants to do that, I'm in. I think it would firmly push OM away to know that she's having another child with me.

Strange life.

I'm just feeling a little reckless now - and I think anything I do - even if I mix things up a bit with my W - might actually make my marriage better. I think W finds me boring - reliable, but boring.

I'm rambling.

-AD

<small>[ December 27, 2004, 01:01 PM: Message edited by: AD ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by AD:

Strangely enough, W has been talking about having another baby. The fact that her friend is pregnant makes her want it a bit more. If she wants to do that, I'm in.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> You are considering divorcing her and getting her pregnant at the same time? I beleive you need to do more soul searching and stop any plans you have for divorce and having another child with her.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think it would firmly push OM away to know that she's having another child with me.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Why would you think this when he knowingly had an affair with your W when she already had a child? Many OM love married women who have kids because it makes it easier for them to keep the affair from developing into a committed relationship. Read Native00 thread, and you will see that he and his WW have 3 small children and that has not stopped his WW from continuing having an affair[s]. So please don't bring another child into a marriage where your WW is far from adopting the MB principles.

TMCM

Hey CoffeeMan,

Yeah, I told you I am feeling reckless.

Of course, if she becomes pregnant, I won't divorce her.

To clarify things a bit...

OM has been in the picture from before we married. W thinks that he doesn't understand how important our child is to her - and how it fundamentally changes things that we have a child.

OM wants to marry her - actually proposed marriage to her again a couple of months ago - you know he said like "Just divorce AD and marry me. It will be alright." I think it made her angry - like she's going to go live in his little dingy appartment which he shares with another guy - and which his brother pays for. Remember, this is a soulmate thingy - not so much a PA. OM has really low self esteem and after finding that W will accept him as a person - is not willing to risk trying to find another woman who will do so. He's single, and has been persuing her for over 6 years now. He's in a committed relationship - with my W!

While she was pregnant with our first child (now 4) W had no contact with OM - and for about 3 months after the birth. OM was devestated to learn that we had a child. W had been telling him that our marriage "is just on paper".

I'm sure it would discourage him if we have another child. W consistently says that she doesn't want a divorce - and has had very little contact with OM for some quite some time now.

She is a student, as is he - and he sometimes stakes out her car in the parking lot at the University. I'm trying to talk her into dropping out until our child is in school - to spend more time with our child - and to reduce her stress level. She is very severely stressed by her classes - and it undermines her ability to be a good Mom.

If she doesn't enroll (or rather drops) the Spring semester, I think it will improve things greatly.

I hear what you are saying, and from a rational standpoint it doesn't make sence to bring another child into this situation. But.... my W's PTSD is the root of much of this - and it's not going to go away. Should she not have a family just because she has problems?

Looking at it rationally, she would never have married me (at 19) if she were not messed up. It's part of who she is and we have to live with it. I don't think she's ever going to be stable, and happy with anything. She is a malcontent - always dissatisfied with everything and everybody. She tries very hard to be a good Mom - and wants very much to have more than one child. Giving her a chance to do the one thing that really matters to her seems to me to be a good thing. We are never going to live a nice simple stable life. I have to take what I can get.

So, if she decides to have another child with me, I'll stay. I probably will stay anyway. But I'm just keeping open the possibility that two Christmasses from now, I'll be with somebody else. Having that possibility in mind makes it easier for me to cope, makes me more flexible, even more indulgent. A little recklessness can be a good thing.

-AD

<small>[ December 27, 2004, 01:55 PM: Message edited by: AD ]</small>