cc46,

Many BS made decision out of anger, hurt or fear to stay or give up. They are the ones would regret their decision once those anger, hurt or fear subsides. They are the ones mostly trying to push for others to follow to justifying their action. You ask many good questions, there is no right answer. Only decision that you could live with.

-rh-

I'd like to add a thought that has been nagging at me for a while.

None of us has any business judging the quality of another person's life. Whether it's a Down's Syndrome baby or a wife with an abusive husband, their life belongs to THEM, and it's for THEM to assess the quality of their existence.

We can gently suggest that they look at the quality of their life, if we are convinced that they are getting a raw deal and may be so buried in mess that they can't see it. But it's still their right to judge that 'low-grade' life sufficient, and choose to stay in it.

There seems to be a certain correlation between judging the quality of another's life, and being a member of the medical profession. I know from my own experience that doctors frequently make assumptions about patients' treatment, without considering the patient's own preferences. I assume that a certain confidence-bordering-on-arrogance is required for a job where patients are frequently indecisive and fearful.

But it IS arrogant. Lemonman, I would respectfully suggest that the quality of your life (which seems a little bleak to me) would be immensely improved by relinquishing the need to cut-and-sew each of us into the quality-of-life model that you judge optimal. Ordinary mortals may wander, be vague,and take a long time to figure out where they are. But that's their right and prerogative.

TogetherAlone

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TogetherAlone:
<strong>
There seems to be a certain correlation between judging the quality of another's life, and being a member of the medical profession. I know from my own experience that doctors frequently make assumptions about patients' treatment, without considering the patient's own preferences. I assume that a certain confidence-bordering-on-arrogance is required for a job where patients are frequently indecisive and fearful.

But it IS arrogant. Lemonman, I would respectfully suggest that the quality of your life (which seems a little bleak to me) would be immensely improved by relinquishing the need to cut-and-sew each of us into the quality-of-life model that you judge optimal. Ordinary mortals may wander, be vague,and take a long time to figure out where they are. But that's their right and prerogative.

TogetherAlone </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">YAWN...I guess I should have predicted this above diatribe.....like a script.

Togetheralone....whatever....I do NOT see why you are even writing this to me here, please save your breath. An opinion was asked FOR ME SPECIFICALLY and I gave it. Now on to your other business please. If you do not like my opinions, simply DON'T READ them, it is as simple as that. If others didn't want to read my opinions, they wouldn't/shouldn't either. It is a free world yA KNOW <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

LM

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by KiwiJ.:
<strong> LM, I know we've disagreed a bit in the past but do you know I absolutely agree with you that 6 months more of lying and betrayals is too much.

If I had so much as contacted the OM after my H found out that would have been it for my H. I would have been out the door instantly and I knew it.

Jen </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Therein lies the problem...and the answer to it all Kiwi.

He is evidently a man of his word...and you KNEW that he would stick to his word.

Too many BS do not have the integrity needed to make their WS a believer.

I have seen so many post "I told him...one more time and I'm outa here"...and it means absolutely ZILCH. Their WS is still with the OP...making known contact...and NOTHING changes.

Their WS KNOWS it. They continue to be a part of the triangle all the time their mouths are saying they won't accept it. Their words do not match their actions...and their actions do not match their words. Why would a WS believe anything they said?

When you have stood by your word...and you continue to stand by your word...there is no margin for error. A WS will stop when it's evident that actions match words.

JMHO
committed

This is a response for Lemonman. Glad I got your attention! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Lemonman, I speculate that you hang around this site - full of people I think you regard as pathetic, sad losers - on order to 'save' us; to get us to grow a spine and some self-respect and dump our pathetic, sad unfaithful spouses. There's something rather admirable in that mission, and I salute your endeavour. On this basis, I understand your clinical approach.

However, I think that you have failed to understand the problem that faces the majority of posters to this site, and why they're here on MarriageBUILDERS rather than dumpthebum.com. The problem that complicates life for most of us is CHILDREN.

I understand that you are a high-earning professional with no dependencies - i.e children. There was therefore little to hold you into your marriage other than sentiment towards your xWW, your emotional investment in the relationship, and a short period of shared history. I presume that a clean break was possible?

That situation applies to a few posters here,and in general they are advised on this board to consider ending the marriage. You see, we are not naive enough to believe that a marriage should be preserved at all costs. But children complicate the situation to a much greater degree than you might be your personal experience. When kids are involved, it's no longer a case of one's own personal happiness or security. As a parent, one's overwhelming responsibility is to provide a safe, nurturing environment for those children. And that is not always best achieved by divorce - even after multiple infidelities.

A lousy spouse may be a great and loving parent - one that the children would be devastated to lose. The BS is aware that children do best with both biological parents together.

A single mother with young children knows that she is likely to struggle financially and socially, and will be left to deal with the emotional fallout of the divorce on the kids. She knows that there are serious issues over introducing a new boyfriend, or a stepfather, into a family of some other man's children. She knows that she will have to deal with the pain of sharing her children with her ex's new wife, and that this will affect her relationship with her kids.

A man may adore his kids, and be ill at the thought of his WW dragging them away from him to live with an adulterer who has no reason to like or look after them. He may face the prospect of intermittent visitations with horror. He may feel he can't protect his kids once his wife is off the premises.

In these cases, all of which we see on this board, there is a horribly complicated ethical conundrum to be solved. Is it 'better' to set crisp boundaries, knowing that this may end the marriage and damage the children? Or is it 'better' to make an effort to mend the marriage, thus preserving security for the children? Is it more 'responsible' to keep your spouse in the home at all costs, with a view to getting them onto some track that will allow them to remain reasonably securely in the marriage? Is it worth even tolerating a level of discreet infidelity, in order to maintain a stable platform for the children? Or it more 'responsible' to model good self-respect to the children by refusing to accept such behaviour?

Is it worth sacrificing a few years of your life to at least TRYING to make the marriage a workable thing? And how much does your personal happiness count against your responsibilities towards your children?

I think that much of what looks to you like woolly thinking - 'cowardice' I think you called it on this thread - is in fact what appears on the surface of a human being struggling with these moral dilemmas. It may well be mixed in with some co-dependence, some lack of personal confidence, some failure of boundaries, some desparate need for 'love'. Many people will eventually reach the conclusion that the marriage is an unhealthy place for them and their children, and will slowly grope their way out. Some will not. And some will decide to stick with a poor marriage because, lousy though it is, it's the best deal they can offer their kids.

Some will settle for a repaired marriage with a spouse they will never fully trust again. Far from ideal for them personally, but better than other alternatives from the viewpoint of being a good parent.

I think that the great strength of this board is its patience and kindness. There's an understanding that people have been dropped into a war-zone and are struggling to understand where they are. There's a tolerance for the kind of confused, panicky, desparate thinking that goes with a sudden threat to a marriage. There's patience and support and a gentle push towards healthy self-management. But it takes TIME. Lots of time.

Grow some patience, LM. This isn't a surgical ward. There are no points for quick decisions and the speed of removing the growth. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

TogetherAlone

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TogetherAlone:
<strong> This is a response for Lemonman. Glad I got your attention! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Lemonman, I speculate that you hang around this site - full of people I think you regard as pathetic, sad losers - on order to 'save' us; to get us to grow a spine and some self-respect and dump our pathetic, sad unfaithful spouses. There's something rather admirable in that mission, and I salute your endeavour. On this basis, I understand your clinical approach.

However, I think that you have failed to understand the problem that faces the majority of posters to this site, and why they're here on MarriageBUILDERS rather than dumpthebum.com. The problem that complicates life for most of us is CHILDREN.

I understand that you are a high-earning professional with no dependencies - i.e children. There was therefore little to hold you into your marriage other than sentiment towards your xWW, your emotional investment in the relationship, and a short period of shared history. I presume that a clean break was possible?

That situation applies to a few posters here,and in general they are advised on this board to consider ending the marriage. You see, we are not naive enough to believe that a marriage should be preserved at all costs. But children complicate the situation to a much greater degree than you might be your personal experience. When kids are involved, it's no longer a case of one's own personal happiness or security. As a parent, one's overwhelming responsibility is to provide a safe, nurturing environment for those children. And that is not always best achieved by divorce - even after multiple infidelities.

A lousy spouse may be a great and loving parent - one that the children would be devastated to lose. The BS is aware that children do best with both biological parents together.

A single mother with young children knows that she is likely to struggle financially and socially, and will be left to deal with the emotional fallout of the divorce on the kids. She knows that there are serious issues over introducing a new boyfriend, or a stepfather, into a family of some other man's children. She knows that she will have to deal with the pain of sharing her children with her ex's new wife, and that this will affect her relationship with her kids.

A man may adore his kids, and be ill at the thought of his WW dragging them away from him to live with an adulterer who has no reason to like or look after them. He may face the prospect of intermittent visitations with horror. He may feel he can't protect his kids once his wife is off the premises.

In these cases, all of which we see on this board, there is a horribly complicated ethical conundrum to be solved. Is it 'better' to set crisp boundaries, knowing that this may end the marriage and damage the children? Or is it 'better' to make an effort to mend the marriage, thus preserving security for the children? Is it more 'responsible' to keep your spouse in the home at all costs, with a view to getting them onto some track that will allow them to remain reasonably securely in the marriage? Is it worth even tolerating a level of discreet infidelity, in order to maintain a stable platform for the children? Or it more 'responsible' to model good self-respect to the children by refusing to accept such behaviour?

Is it worth sacrificing a few years of your life to at least TRYING to make the marriage a workable thing? And how much does your personal happiness count against your responsibilities towards your children?

I think that much of what looks to you like woolly thinking - 'cowardice' I think you called it on this thread - is in fact what appears on the surface of a human being struggling with these moral dilemmas. It may well be mixed in with some co-dependence, some lack of personal confidence, some failure of boundaries, some desparate need for 'love'. Many people will eventually reach the conclusion that the marriage is an unhealthy place for them and their children, and will slowly grope their way out. Some will not. And some will decide to stick with a poor marriage because, lousy though it is, it's the best deal they can offer their kids.

Some will settle for a repaired marriage with a spouse they will never fully trust again. Far from ideal for them personally, but better than other alternatives from the viewpoint of being a good parent.

I think that the great strength of this board is its patience and kindness. There's an understanding that people have been dropped into a war-zone and are struggling to understand where they are. There's a tolerance for the kind of confused, panicky, desparate thinking that goes with a sudden threat to a marriage. There's patience and support and a gentle push towards healthy self-management. But it takes TIME. Lots of time.

Grow some patience, LM. This isn't a surgical ward. There are no points for quick decisions and the speed of removing the growth. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

TogetherAlone </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">These are all great points you make. Not much else to add. Good day.

Cheers

LM

but for me a second chance is not a MINIMUM of 6 months of deceit, betrayal, and continued cheating. Hey, but that is just me.

Excellant way to put it Lemonman. You know I side with you on your marriagebuilding views, but I just wanted to say that togetheralone, you made some very good points.

I think that we as humans all have the same problem in thinking that what may work for us will also work for everybody else.
It's hard to remember about the different strokes for different folks.

Just my two cents <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

TA hit the proverbial nail on the proverbial head. Children are the x factor in the equation. When they are present, it's a lot harder to simply wash your hands and walk away.

Having said that, I'll add this: while it's clear that children benefit from living in a two-parent home, it also seems clear to me that that benefit can be undermined by squishy boundaries.

I think I'm pretty typical of most people who reach the "recovery" stage. My wife and I are working on our marriage. We've made a lot of progress, and we've dealt with a lot of the issues that led up to the affair. (I won't say CAUSED the affair.)

But, my wife also knows that this is it. If she re-establishes contact with the OM - or if she cheats again - I'm done.

Lemonman, I know that you will see me as an object of pity. But..I'm striking a balance the best way I know how.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by AndrewA:
<strong>
Lemonman, I know that you will see me as an object of pity. But..I'm striking a balance the best way I know how. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Andrew:

I don't see you as the object of pity at all. I think once again, a few people's perceptions of me "cloud" who I really am. People are very liberal in posting what they think I feel about everyone here. If you read all my posts, I never begrudge someone for trying to "recover" a marriage WHEN the WS is doing their part also and doing everything to "truly" recover. I am ALWAYS gonna be seen as a pariah here because the fact is that I don't buy all (many) of the Harley principles. So, in essence it is ALWAYS going to seem like I am "the bad guy". Once again, that is ok, it is my choice to post here, and if it really bothered me that much I would just stop posting (or if I was baned first <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )

To some people here my "hard advice" and "non-sugar coated" opinions make me seem like some hard a$$ed guy who doesn't understand. I do know that a few people here understand me and my motives. I also clearly realize that my situation is not the norm here, and that ofcourse children make things harder. I still don't believe that having children should be an excuse to accept less than humane behavior or lose one's dignity in "saving the marriage". But hey that is just me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . I may be wrong in this opinion and I can acknowlege that. To each their own.

I am happy you are finding a "balance" in all of this. I really am. You seem like a kind and caring man, and IMO your WW should pray everyday that you have forgiven her and are moving ahead with her.

How are your daughters?

LM

Lemonman-
Sorry you are getting a bad rep around here again. Do not leave, and do not take it personally. I think people might just be intimidated by your confidance. Hang in there.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by KMEJ:
<strong> Lemonman-
Sorry you are getting a bad rep around here again. Do not leave, and do not take it personally. I think people might just be intimidated by your confidance. Hang in there. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks K, but I don't really see it as a bad rep "again". There is no really "again" about it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . I fully understand that on a board of this nature, my opinions are going to bring some criticisms, etc... It is all ok though. Please don't feel sorry for me, I am a big boy and if I wanted to be a board favorite I could easily temper down my opinions, join the Idiotville thread ( <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) and write more of what people "wanted to hear". I do not think that this would do the board justice, but I could be wrong about this <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . I will probably stop posting when one of three things happens:

1. I don't get any personal satisfaction from reading the board and it just brings me grief

2. I feel that my posts do NO ONE any good

3. I am banned ( <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ).

Thanks for the support.. KMEJ.

LM

LM, thanks alot for your answers. I just want to clarify that as far as Iknow WH is not a serial cheater, this is his first time.Also he has not behaved as some WS are described, he did not ever promise that the A was over or would be over. He has always said it is not important (???) whatever that means. Never said I was at fault,always accepted it was his mistake. On d day I toldhim he would have to leave after Xmas and he said OK.The 26th december he told our daughters that he had made a mistake and was leaving because that was our agreement and he left having nowhere to go (because his rented place was not ready). He´s been in a hotel since then and has respected me by not contacting me.
I agree that long plan As are not advisable (I only did 2 months and it was enough). I am now in plan B. I´ll let you know howit turns out. In my case the situation is different in the sense that he never made false promises, never denied the A since I found out and everytime I asked something (which I haven´t done much) basically he hasn´t lied except by omission and he has faced up to his daughters with the truth as he sees it. Very difficult thing to do.
TA is right that when there are kids involved the situation is very different.In my case I am lucky my Ds are basically young adults and I have treated them as such. They haven´t had much tme to process the situation but so far they are doing OK. It´s only the third day since their father left and he has been constantly in contact with them. He also assured me that our social and financial situation would not change.hopefully that is true.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by cc46:
<strong>I agree that long plan As are not advisable (I only did 2 months and it was enough).</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What made you arrived to the decision that it was enough ?, just curious.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> I am now in plan B.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"></strong>
Did you gave him plan B letter or what did you tell him ?.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>He also assured me that our social and financial situation would not change.hopefully that is true. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I hope so too, for your kids's.

It is hard to pick and select steps in SAA and then when it doesn't work we blame it on the concept. In this board we get supports and suggestions, when we need advice, go to the pro . I was under SH coaching the whole time from plan A to plan B then when I say no mas.

Keep us updated, I hope your WH would realize what he lost and strong enough to pull him back home.

-rh-

CC46, you asked:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> So my question is why would we want to save a M that is obviously flawed, and in the light of the horrible actions and behaviors of the WS during the A? Why do lots of people feel they want to save the M even during those first few moments? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My take on this:
Why? Why indeed! I laughed at, then put-down my SIL, who caught her H on more than one occassion with OW(s). The most recent was about 5 years ago - she found the house where the OW lived, and stood outside of the house listening for about 2 hours, before dawn broke, and her H finally walked outside of the house to his vehicle. She was standing beside it, and casually said to him "Ya know, sound REALLY travels at 3 o'clock in the morning...I'll see you at the house" Then she turned, got in the car, and drove home. I told her she was crazy!!! There is NO WAY I would take her brother back if he cheated on me - NO WAY!!!

Well, my mind changed when faced with that "what if" Why? Maybe because the first thing that hit my mind was "where did I go wrong?" then "What didn't I do?" then "OMG, everybody's gonna think we had such a bad marriage!" and finally "What am I going to do to fix this? Can I really trust him? Do I send him away, and try to explain to everyone what happened?" In the case of my M, it was EA, with little PA (hugs n kisses in office setting, someone walked in, couldn't go farther, and "sexual harrassment" was broadcast through the whole place) At first, H said - it's all a lie - none of it happened. Then, he admitted to a hug. Then, I overheard him explaining to his Supervisor & GM that it was a "kiss on the cheek". I told him right then that that was it - if it EVER happened again, he was out. AND, if he wasn't telling me the truth, and I find out, he would be out - no if's, no and's, no but's…if I found out he lied and slept with her, I could not forgive that – I would not live with a liar…if there was more to it, it had better come out now. Well, we skirted the issue for 3 long, painful, egg-shell-covered years. I felt there was more to the story, but anger and fear would not allow us to discuss it. I wanted to trust him, and he didn’t want me to leave him…Then, as a God-send, I found this site...learned that I wasn't wrong for feeling betrayed - our M was sacred and even "just an EA" and "just a kiss" is still a slap in the face to the sanctity of that commitment. I also learned how to listen, how to fix me and the things that I contributed to his emotional state, and met some great people along the way! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

And, finally, after 3 years, H admitted the full story - no there weren't any new details, but he did finally admit that things had not been good, that he had not been happy, and that because of recent trauma(s) in our lives, he didn't know how to tell me that the things I was trying to do weren't helping and they weren't enough. I can say that I now trust my H, and because of things I learned on MB, and changes I made within me, and FOR me, H now trusts me to tell me how he's feeling. But, you know what, my H also knows that as much as I love him, and want an "intact" family for our children's sake, any further episodes, with former OW or a new one, and he's outta here. I will not share my M or my H with anyone - God gave him to me, and I'll be the only one, or I'll leave. I can say that now, because I have been through it, and for me, an A IS a “deal-breaker”.

Actually, that’s sort-of what I got from what LM was saying – people say one thing, then do another…and their spouses know ahead of time how much “backbone” they have. It has nothing to do with that person’s stature in life or the community – I’ve know lots of professionals who were major conflict-avoiders, and for the sake of saving-face, they’d back down in a heartbeat…and I’ve known some “average” people with more backbone than they needed. It doesn’t mean you are weak because you have the desire to work out your marriage even after an A, or even multiple A’s…shoot, maybe you are a stronger person because you can/will tolerate, even if it is for the sake of your children, what most people would not. We do a lot for our kids…it’s our job as parents to protect them…but it’s also our job to teach them what to (and not to) do.

OK, just my humble-all-be-it-rather-long opinion.
~YL


PS - Not that you asked, but since it's my post <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> SIL grew a backbone, told BIL it was LAST TIME - she did a brief & sudden Plan B, and it whipped him back into shape. He is now the loving, doting H he was "in the beginning" and they appear to be doing great... he's been OW-free for 5 years now...his longest record yet, and it looks like they're gonna make it!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by YL:
<strong> But, you know what, my H also knows that as much as I love him, and want an "intact" family for our children's sake, any further episodes, with former OW or a new one, and he's outta here. I will not share my M or my H with anyone - God gave him to me, and I'll be the only one, or I'll leave. I can say that now, because I have been through it, and for me, an A IS a “deal-breaker”.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">GREAT POST..........Isn't it funny that when I post essentially the same thing I get a whole different back lash. It is very interesting, kind of makes you wonder.

Anyway, I enjoyed your post and concur 100%. Thanks for sharing.

LM

LM,Thanks.

As for us saying basically the same thing, Yah, I've seen it many times, and I will say, it is frustrating, though, when you look back and say "Why didn't anybody respond when I said that?" or worse - "Why didn't they see that's exactly what I just said?" Oh well, don't ponder on it too long...two people can say the same thing all day long... some will get it and some won't...kind of like your sig line. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Redhat: I couldn´t stand the thought of my WH having an A with my knowledge and living under the same roof! But he had been acting in a strange manner for about 2 years and getting worse until I finally confronted him in march 2004 and asked him what was going on. Typical answer ILYBNILWY and assured me there was no other woman. Also said that he didn’t know what he wanted to do about it. At that point I behaved as though in plan A although I hadn’t found MB yet and had no other information but I was totally shocked. In September we had the same conversation, exactly the same but that time I asked him to leave because I did not want to live with someone who was so detached and uncaring and secretive etc and not willing to even talk about it. Because my Ds were ending the school year with upcoming exams to get into University we agreed we would separate when they finished (last exam 23rd dec) after Xmas. But at that moment something was telling me that there was a difference so I looked for the affair which I finally confirmed late oct. I immediately confronted him,he did not deny but did not say he would end it and actually continued it and although he said he was sorry he didn’t act it. He insists that the main problem is not being in love with me and that he would have told me of the A in late January !!!! So again we agreed to separate after Xmas and that’s the reason for a 2 month plan A. The changes I noticed during this time were that he felt guilty and sad and confused but his actions were to continue the affair, probably, although lately I can’t be sure but he has never said it is not active, and to plan for separation by renting a place for a year. Now we’re in plan B. I did give him a letter.
I don’t know of marriage coaching or even MC in this area, and I wouldn’t trust them if they existed. Also there is no time to do the necessary research to find out.
There is something very interesting in my situation: my instincts were leading me to do what plan A and B say, although I didn’t know why. Since d day I have read everything on this site and others, a week ago I got SAA and 2 days ago Torn Asunder which I am reading. I would not blame the concept because in my case it agreed with my instincts, maybe that was why I was so willing to adopt them.
I suspect that my WH is in MLC and the A is a secondary matter but only time will tell. In the meantime, because of the suspicion of MLC and because he is the kind of person who is slow to react I do suspect it will take quite a while for this situation to come to some kind of an end. I don’t think that I will be able to keep nc for more than 3 months. It would not seem logical to me unless his behaviour changed.I make it a point to keep my word, I think it is very important that if he is confused (in MLC, ina fog, his head up his a***, whatever you want to call it and I do believe he is) he should not find me confusing. Anyway, I’m not. I always keep my word, I lead a simple and transparent life, no lies, or secrets etc. That is also the reason for not being able to plan A for any longer. I couldn’t keep on lying to my ds or anyone else pretending that everything is OK.
I hope I have answered your questions. I would love to be able to report a happy ending but am not expecting anything soon. Any opinions are welcome but as LM has pointed out, there are so many people on this website who have situations which are so much more complicated than mine that I don’t expect the hardworking Mbers to have to listen to me if I can learn from all the other experiences here. I working a scientific field and specialize in distilling knowledge from the wealth of information available so I am good at critically choosing what is useful and what isn’t. I´m also good at detecting patterns.
When I have doubts I do post and have received wonderful and very pragmatic answers.


YL: thanks for your post. It really gives me hope!

cc46,

Thanks for the detail post. I just want to point out that you did plan A longer than 2 months. Plan A never suggests that BS could hide the A, as matter of fact, exposure is a must.

Again I really hope that your WH could wake up soon before loosing you.

-rh-

Just hoping to show you my support.

Your story is almost similiar with mine. Be prepared for a long struggle. It is easy now at the beginning to say that you want to save the marriage but after 14 months it gets harder to hang on. This is where i am now.

Its 14 months after Dday...have tried everything from plan A to plan B and exposure. My WH is exactly like yours...first time infidelity etc. I feel exactly like you at the beginning but now i am not sure anymore.

During plan B it is not your WH that you must worry about...it is YOU. In a long on going plan B it is the BS that usually gives up because you finally have no more feelings for WH. Pray that you guard your heart against this.

Take care.

Thanks Redhat. true I basically did a spontaneous plan A for longer.I did expose and I think it was one of the things that WH couldn´t believe I was doing, but it is really what I feel like doing. But as I mentioned,if the A continues it is still being carried on very discreetly and is obviously not acceptable to my ds.

Zizzy: you are so right about theplans being about the BS and one tends to forget that! Thanks for reminding me. I amstillnumb but hopefully after New Years I will start to build my new real self.
Will be praying for you...and me... and all the victims of the Tsunami