Stanley and Myrta, what are you looking for here? Are you looking for solutions to this problem?

At this point you're starting to defend the OM. Think about what you're doing!!

if you're looking for solutions...why have you not responded to the posts that offer suggestions OTHER than exposure?!?!?

If you two POJA'D no exposure than that's all you have to say. You do not need to defend that to anyone here. At first I thought that a poja about this was in place. But now I'm wondering if Stanely has reservations with no exposure and you (Myrta) are just defedning your case.

I don't get it. I don't get what you're looking for. You're not responding to suggestions other than exposure. You're OVERdefending "no exposure" which leads one to think about protesting too much. You're starting to defend the OM.

What are you looking for here?

MADDYK--Why am I defending the OM? Just because I am saying that he will not tell, is defending him? Gosh, this is unreal!!! I am not defending him at all, just because I say that. I could be wrong about him, but I dont think he will expose me.
Yes, we like to follow other solutions other than exposure...Thank you for your post!!

Myrta

Myrta...maybe defending is not the word but your minimalizing the effect this is having. Whether or not Stanely is being dramatic is something you two have to discuss, but the manner in which you've said that is definitely a disrespectful judgement.

I feel that you have to consider the possibility of OM being off his rocker and out for revenge. Will you at least consider that possibiity and not dismiss it (okay..dismissing is a better phrase. What I've been getting from all of these posts--both you AND Stanley--is that you're basically dismissing the possibility of what OM's motives could be).

Please reread the posts throughout this thread. There are definitely suggestions there of what you could do instead of exposing. But you do need to be aware that he might expose and you should be prepared for that.

You don't have to go through and say why each one might work or wouldn't work..but I hope you'll at least take a look. Although I feel self-exposure is the only thing that will bring about the greatest protection..there are other alternatives you could try first.

Hey Coach!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Sorry-couldn't resist!!!!!!!!!!!!

CC

<small>[ December 30, 2004, 10:00 AM: Message edited by: Archuletan ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Buttercup:CC:
<strong> Hey Coach!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Sorry-couldn't resist!!!!!!!!!!!!

CC </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hey isn't this against TOS??? Just us, Justus, where are you? AN email is in order here to be delivered to buttercup. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Before you get all hot and bothered, this was a joke <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . God I hate having to qualify everything I say on this board.

<small>[ December 30, 2004, 10:00 AM: Message edited by: Archuletan ]</small>

NO KIDDING!

I got roasted for one heck of a lot less direct attack than this.

There were entire threads dedicated to what might be wrong with me. Maybe if I had said ha ha after.....

Oh the humanity <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Noodle

1. OM brought a birthday present for Myrta's birthday to my in-laws 9 days after D-day.

2. During the days shortly after D-day one of my daughters talked to OM via IM because Myrta suggested OM could help with her homework regarding police work. One time OM was not on line and his away message was all about Myrta.

3. OM's public AOL profile is a love letter to Myrta. Anyone who knows the OM's screen name can look at it by clicking on "View member profile".

4. OM talked by phone to mother in law to offer help regarding summer storm.

5. OM had lunch with Myrta's brother.

6. OM offered a part-time job to Myrta's nephew

7. OM showed up unannounced to bring Xmas present to in-laws.

8. OM has IMd two of my daughters twice and then remains silent. Daughters find this quite odd.

All this activity after D-day, particularly after permanent NC. This is not an exaggeration. In fact, there is probably more and I don't know about it.

1. Myrta and I have agreed to have NO EXPOSURE

2. I thought Myrta was in agreement with my email and I had sent her a draft for her review, but this was a mistake. We will see how it goes.

3, If OM makes contact again may consider a lawyer and a PI. Will also try to get in touch with OM's STBXW. She may have some answers.

4. Will advise daughters to block OM

Not sure what to do with in-laws

Stanley,

Sorry, I've been busy all day and just returned from a dinner party... I'll try to answer your post from early this afternoon.

Yes, I identify with the OM in Myrta's scenario, only because I was the OW in my OW's case. Make sense?? She was the one who ended it and left me "hanging" in many senses. I tried to tie loose ends up, only to make matters worse!

You asked: "Did it bother you to know that your OW and H were doing OK? Why would that be the case?" I never got confirmation that they WERE doing okay! As a matter of fact, my OW assured me that if her H ever found out, he'd kick her out and she'd never have custody of their children. Besides that, she had a fragile state of mind, so I was VERY, VERY concerned about her after her D Day! That's what I continually tried to contact her!

You asked: "Did you pressure her to leave the marriage? OM pressured Myrta big time into leaving the marriage." Nope, I NEVER would pressure her!!!!!! She assured me that he'd leave during his mid-life crisis, that he assured her he'd have!!! I always assumed that their marriage either might crumble, or just go on the way it had been--unfulfilling and very sad for her!

You asked, "Did you want the marriage of your OW to end?" No, it was her priority to make her marriage work, for the sake of her children. She often told me, "If I can't make if work with my children's father, then I could never forgive myself!". So, no, I at first counselled her as to how to possibly make her M better! Nothing worked though! (Note: This was when we were just friends!!)

You asked, "When did you finally get the message that it was time to stay away? The letter from the lawyer?" Nope, the NC letter was written by her. Nothing legal about it! It was shocking, since I got it a month after I stopped all contact with her!!!!!!! Weird! Maybe it was her attempt of contacting me? I don't know! Anyway, I still think of her, and even during Christmas, I sent her a Christmas card. I couldn't just bypass her name in my address book. After all, in past years, she'd make me numerous Christmas gifts, send me things, include me in her drafts of her family Christmas letter, etc. To totally cut her out of my life, especially at a holiday, is too harsh, and she DID mean something to me--her whole family did. I just wanted to extend the olive branch, although in retrospect, I realize it was wrong of me to do!

You asked, "What does OM GET by stalking my daughters on the internet?" Does he "stalk" them? First of all, I ABHOR that word! It's so hard to prove, unless he's sending numerous letters, phoning them, etc.... I'll answer it anyway. What does he "get"? He gets a connection. He probably knows a lot about your children, and even about you, and he feels a connection. When the A ended, he was probably at a loss for all of those feelings. He reaches out, still, to contact them. He probably really does care, even though a part of him knows it's wrong to contact them!

You asked, "What specific gratification OMs gets from talking to my in-laws and by having lunch with Myrta's brother?" Same answer, really. He wants a connection. He's still very attached to Myrta.

You asked, "Do you honestly believe OM is hurting that much after seven moths (d-day)?" That question is tough! YES, I think he's obviously still hurting. I'll bet he was SURE he'd have some kind of future with Myrta. I'm sure that her leaving him threw him for a loop. I'm sure he's still pining away for her! I'm sure he is still in pain after 7 months. I am!!! (although I've spent a lot of time and energy focusing on my children and my M; things he isn't doing!)

You asked, "Do you realize that his plan for Myrta if she left the marriage was to have her work as a cook in a restaurant that he was going to open named after her? Neither of them have any experience in the restaurant business!" I don't know anything about this! I never heard this line of thinking before. Although, my OW and I sometimes discussed our pipedream and discussed who would work, where we would live, etc...

You asked, "Do you think OM may be delusional? Did you know he pretended my children were his children? He also pretended Myrta was his wife when calling from the airplane every-time he landed in our city. He would them tell those around him he was notifying the wife he was back in town." Hmm, I don't know how to answer that one! Delusional? Maybe! Although my OW and I even discussed possible "love names" for children, if we ever had them together! As far as the OM pretending Myrta was his wife... I can't understand that line of thinking. That's a little strange to me that he'd refer to Myrta as his "wife" to other people, although maybe it was easier regarding his work? I don't really know. Sounds scary, but I wasn't there, so I don't know the context of those statements.

You asked, "Did you know he never thought he was having an affair?" Another touchy one for me! My OW and I HARDLY EVER referred to our relationship as an "affair"! I don't know if it was due to the same-sex thing, or what, but it was just never discussed. It was simply that we were in love and that we were figuring out what to do about it.

Finally, you asked, "Did you know he claims to be the CEO of a big private business and yet has to work part-time as a ticket maid with the police department to make ends meet? He is a single man and his kids are grown! Had to borrow money from my wife!" Nope, never heard that being said from Myrta or from you. How do you know these details? Do you know them to be factual? If so, then he may blow his career out of proportion for ego's sake. Seen it happen before with many men! Would this make him non-affair material? Doubt it!

Hope I answered all of your questions, although I don't know how relevant they are, especially now, at the end of the night!! Sorry!!

I'm so sorry for all you and Myrta have been through. I have to say that I admire your standing up for Myrta here today. Sounds like you appreciate all of her efforts for the past few months, and that warms my heart. Sounds like you know where her heart and head are at! Bravo for you!!!!!!!!!!

Hope you and Myrta can work this out. Honestly, sometimes I think it's best to get offline and just work it out alone. Figure it out. If you 2 don't want to out the details, that's up to you! This is your personal choice! As long as you and Myrta agree on things, that's what matters. I truly hope that the OM isn't devious. I hope that he'll just eventually give up on seeking Myrta's attention. It's sad, really. Hope he's getting help! Ending any relationship is heartbreaking and sad, all around. It's hurt so many people.

Take care of yourself and of Myrta. Hope you have a good nite!!

CC

Stanley,

Damn! I just posted a LONG response to your questions to me and they didn't show up! Argh! I'm so tired, having just come home from a holiday party with H. I'll try to answer it tomorrow, if you're still interested.

Hope you take care of yourself, and of Myrta. Nite!

CC

Stanley,

Nevermind! I see it posted now! Yeah! Board is wonky tonight..........

Nite!!

CC

Nothing "new" to add...Well, except a comment:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, I am up to the task, but is my husband up to it???</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Wow.

(edited to add LM's sig:
Some people just "don't get it", they "don't get it" that they "don't get it".)

<small>[ December 30, 2004, 01:01 AM: Message edited by: LINY ]</small>

M&S,

I have been following your story since Stanley first posted in August. And you have been receiving the 'best from the best' from JL. I've been reading his posts for years now.

Why am I posting to y'all?

Well, it's not to tell you to expose or not expose the A. I would not pretend to know enough about you and your families to do that.

I want to pose a question to each of you. This requires deep and honest self reflection...

Myrta - Does your deep fear of exposure drive your desire to make your marriage work?

Stanley - Do you fear that Myrta will lose her desire to work on the M if the A is exposed?

Simple questions, but not so simple to answer. In reading your responses for months now, I feel this 'fear' becoming a common groud for both of you.

If there is any truth to this, then be very careful about the recovery of your M. IMHO, fear is NOT a long lasting cornerstone in which to rebuild your relationship.

Exposing the A ensures your M is rebuilt because you want to be married to each other instead of fearing the consequences of exposure.

I wish you guys the best and hope this current situation ends quickly and positively for you...

God Bless.

Gib

Here is my take.

Stan-ley does not want to expose because he loves and wants to protect his wife. Myrta uses this against him to protect herself from exposure. She is playing damsel in distress and he the good knight. The dragon is still lurking but only she has the power to vanquish it.

She is trying minimize the danger of this man and her affiar to her marriage and family. Still foggy. I bet it gives her ego/fantasy a bit of a stroke everytime she gets indirect contact from him. Is not part of the thrill of a relationship being chased?


She is only 4 months out of no contact? not 7 that keeps being banterd? Am I Correct here? She is still foggy and thinks the man still "sweet" even with the info they know about him. She still refuses to see him as slime on the bottom of a garbage can he is.

She met him on the internet and really knows nothing about him, but he is "harmless"??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Says she wants her marriage but still defends the creep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> and continues to let him disrespect her husband and family.

The guy is infiltrating her family she is still so foggy that she refuses to protect her marriage and family from this guy. If he is even the least bit wacko !!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> !!! Even the most notorious killers, stalkers, molesters, etc., in history were considerd "nice guys" by most.

Myrta thinks nobody knows? Hmmmm I was 5 and knew daddy had a girlfriend. I was 24 I knew mommy had a boyfriends. Both times parents/step parents put on the big happy married with family show.

YOU both have been given a solution without outright lying. This guy is stalking Myrta. He is out to cause trouble in your marriage. You can even give a few details like HE calls Myrta his WIFE, without giving away the affair. You get the upper hand and hopefully discredit him to an extent. Even tell your family he started contacting them AFTER you told him you wanted nothing to do with him. Tell your family you are considering lawyers and a restraining order. Tell them you have been told by credible resources that he stalked before. Tell them that he has even flown to your home. You can give details while still "saving" Myrta's face, and making the guy out to be looney.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Myrta:
<strong>
ALITTLEBIT WISER--No, I did not think of any of that while in the affair, otherwise I would not be in this position right now. Nobody thinks about anything while the affair is going on. But now, I see what a grave mistake I made. But I am not going to make an even bigger one, by telling the world of an affair that ended seven months ago. Thats just plain stupid.
The OM, is not stalking my family, just because he went to my parents once and brought them some coffee, does not mean is about to "OUT" me.

Everyone here is just too drastic in their advise. There are just a few here that make any sense, and you are not one of them!!!

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, I meant did you think about this BEFORE you got in the A. At one point, you must have realized you had a fork in the road and had a choice in front of you- either remain faithful to stanley or have an A with wacko OW. It always blows my mind that people make decisions WITHOUT thinking about the end result, eg: how would my spouse feel when they found out? How would other people look at me when they found out? Because they always find out.

You would not be "telling the world". Methinks you also suffer from the same infliction that you say stanley does- the need to over-dramatize.
Let's face it, you do not want to tell because 1) you want to downplay this thing that you did to your M so as to lessen any guilt you may be feeling, 2) it may be that a part of you likes this attention the OW is giving you indirectly. You may have no intention of contacting him, but you may see his actions as he has not gotten over you and you may be a little flattered by this.

Trust me when I say this: OM will ratchet up his actions if you continue to ignore him. He wants some sort of response from you. It will start innocently enough, coffee with your parents, chats with daughters. And then he will up the ante.

As far as me making any sense, I sure as h*ll make more sense than you. If I was in your shoes, I would be doing EVERYTHING to alieviate stanely's fears by diffusing this man's hold on your life. By saying that "ow wouldn't do that" is incredibly insensitive and disrespectful. The man almost took out your M with your help, for god's sake! Do you honestly think he has a decent or moral bone in his body? He wont even respond to stanley's letters, has not expressed remorse, or even apologized to him.

You come across as fogged, still, because you seem to be supporting your OM's behaviour and attacking stanley's.

from someone who does not make any sense,
albw

<small>[ December 30, 2004, 08:40 AM: Message edited by: alittlebitwiser ]</small>

ALITTLE LESS WISER--Yes, that fork did come in the road, but the fog was already there and the curiosity for the unknown too and I chose the wrong path. YOu are right!! But,.....I have been trying to make this marriage work, to make it up to my husband. And I dont think I am in the fog STILL like you are saying. If I were I could not make love to my husband or give him affection and so forth.

I am not defending the OM, not OW like you put, here at all, I am simply stating what his motives could be. From what he showed me, I could be wrong. But I think that just because he went to my parents and brought them coffee thats grounds to say that he is stalking my family. My daughters IM him first after the NC was already in place.

I am not attacking Stanley at all. I think the e-mail he wrote was not necessary. My husband descended to the OMs level by writing it. My husband knew he would not answer, since he has written him before and he never had!! iF that is defending, the so be it!!!

Myrta

Even though you do not respond I hope you read my posts as I seem to be the only one posting that has had a similar OM.

Do not get lulled into a false sense of security because OM was or is a pt cop. Our OM was a pt fireman. We also later found out that the cop that was on our case had a previous restraining order filed against him by a lady in our town.

You do not need a PI to get all background info we were able to call local court houses where OM had lived and found he had a record.

FWW assured me that this guy was harmless to my family. In fact, after the FOG lifted she told me that she never believed that he had ever made contact or exposed the A to me until I played her the tape from my phone and even then she said she found it hard to believe. "because he was such a nice guy".

Through it all she was still certain that he was harmless though.

Yes OM tend to be skillful liars. I was told by my attorny that he worked around liars everyday and that this guy was the best.

What we didn't realize was that OM had a plan and many of the contacts with family were to help in his cover up when he did something wacko.

I'm not saying this is the case with your OM but I warn you that stalking is a SERIOUS matter. At the very least your OM is obsessed and that is not a healthy state of mind. I'm telling you, it is more than likly that if he does not get the reaction that he wants from his current plan it will escalate.

One last point. What he has done is found a way to wiggle his way back into your lives. You don't think he knows this? How much time have you spent discussing OM as of late? Had any fights because of him? My FWW and I were there. I know the strain it causes. You need to find a way to extract him from your lives and then focus on your M, not him.

As I used to tell FWW he is worth no more thought then the dust on your shoes.

Best of luck... Please be careful and ALWAYS REMEMBER THAT IT IS A GREAT DAY TO BE ALIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am not defending the OM, not OW like you put, here at all, I am simply stating what his motives could be.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Stalkers ALWAYS have "good intentions' that make sense and seem logical to themselves.

His "intentions" are immaterial to the fact that he is using your children as pawns for his own purpose. And this does not bother you?

Pep

MR.ED--Thank you for your very informative post. The problem here, is that we live in Maryland and he is a part-time policeman in Florida. We cannot get his background information from here.]
Is there any way that could be found out from here?
Again thank you for sharing your story with us.It is scary to learn these things.

Myrta

CC:

Yes, I identify with the OM in Myrta's scenario. She was the one who ended it and left me "hanging" in many senses. I tried to tie loose ends up, only to make matters worse!

OMs or OWs deserve nothing after the affair ends. I don’t understand why they feel so entitled. The only ones who deserve anything are the married folks. By definition OPs operate in the dark, in secrecy. They are owed nothing after discovery. It is a rather simple concept.


You asked: "Did it bother you to know that your OW and H were doing OK? Why would that be the case?" I never got confirmation that they WERE doing okay! As a matter of fact, my OW assured me that if her H ever found out, he'd kick her out and she'd never have custody of their children. Besides that, she had a fragile state of mind, so I was VERY, VERY concerned about her after her D Day! That's what I continually tried to contact her!

CC you were mostly concerned with your own closure. As I said above she owed you nothing after the affair ended. I don’t understand why OPs see themselves in the same light as a legitimate spouse.


You asked, "When did you finally get the message that it was time to stay away? The letter from the lawyer?" Nope, the NC letter was written by her. Nothing legal about it! It was shocking,

Shocking!!! For God’s sake, OPs are owed nothing (see above). The relationship is built on NOTHING but lies, deception, and fantasy. Their plans are almost always castles in the air. That is why many of these affairs end with a simple phone call---- there is no base--- nothing.

You asked, "What does OM GET by stalking my daughters on the internet?" Does he "stalk" them? First of all, I ABHOR that word! It's so hard to prove, unless he's sending numerous letters, phoning them, etc.... I'll answer it anyway. What does he "get"? He gets a connection. He probably knows a lot about your children, and even about you, and he feels a connection. When the A ended, he was probably at a loss for all of those feelings. He reaches out, still, to contact them. He probably really does care, even though a part of him knows it's wrong to contact them!

Do you realize how bizarre and painful it is for me to have a scum OM trying to talk to my daughters to get close to my wife?

I am surprised you use the frequency of contact to determine if it is appropriate or not for OM to get in touch with my family. BTW, my in-laws ARE MY FAMILY (in case you did not know). It does not matter that OM made contact two or 100 times. There should be NO CONTACT. The idea of justifying this intrusion because it was only done a couple of times is not sound.

You asked, "What specific gratification OMs gets from talking to my in-laws and by having lunch with Myrta's brother?" Same answer, really. He wants a connection. He's still very attached to Myrta.

Do you realize that this is selfishness to the extreme? Why do OPs feel so entitled? OM is deceiving my in-laws and Myrta’s brother when he makes contact with them. Myrta’s family members have no clue about the real intentions of OM. Do you see this as an honorable act by OM? This is nothing more than deceit!!


I'll bet he was SURE he'd have some kind of future with Myrta. I'm sure that her leaving him threw him for a loop. I'm sure he's still pining away for her! I'm sure he is still in pain after 7 months. I am!!! (although I've spent a lot of time and energy focusing on my children and my M; things he isn't doing!)

OM has a counselor. He was troubled before when he had to face his own children for betraying his soon TBXW. Myrta never told OM they had a future.

Myrta might have been in the fog, but she is not stupid. OM is not much of a man. In fact, if 1000 women had to choose between me and OM I bet you 999 would pick me. Trust me on this one------ This guy is delusional. Sorry if I sound vain, but that is reality. This man was highly inappropriate for Myrta in every sense of the word------- a very bizarre match!

<small>[ December 30, 2004, 09:54 AM: Message edited by: Stan-ley ]</small>

Myrta, I should have been more specific. When I said local court houses I meant local to the areas he had lived. In our case we did it from the midwest to Cal. WE just went on the internet and got the phone #'s then called. Some ran checks while we were on the phone some made us send the request in writting. There is a federal law called the Freedom of Information Act that allows access of such information unless it is sealed for a specific reason.

You might find he has no record but don't let your guard down. What was it momma always used to say? "It's better to be safe then sorry".

Like I said before the sooner you get him out of your lives completly the sooner you can focus on what is really important. Each other!