Stanley - Do you fear that Myrta will lose her desire to work on the M if the A is exposed?


Excellent question!

If the affair is exposed Myrta would have a very hard time explaining our kids and family why she elected OM as a mate------- As I said before, they are a mismatch. I believe that having to face this in the open is a deterrent for any thought that she had or has about leaving the marriage.

If the affair becomes public then the ordeal of having to explain her choice may become less painful as time marches by. Once everybody in the family accepts that she had the affair with OM she could consider OM as a viable option and leave the marriage. After all, the secret is out. In that instance she would not have to take the feelings of the family or children into consideration anymore.

I thought about this after D-day----- her desire of keeping this secret gave me a power that I really did not want to have. For instance I could have said to Myrta “you better stay with me or I will tell the children about the affair”. Obviously I don’t want Myrta under that circumstance. So I made a promise to Myrta: I told her I would never reveal this secret and that I would never use it as a weapon against her. I discussed her feelings for OM and told her that if she really loved OM we could get a divorce and I would make up some other excuse for the separation.

At some point OM believed that I was forcing Myrta to stay in the marriage because of the threat of public exposure. However, I think Myrta got him straight on that issue------- I am not sure.

I will also feel very shamed if the affair went public. I would have a hard time facing my mother who would give me the proverbial “I told you so”. It would be much easier to face Myrta’s parents.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> One last point. What he has done is found a way to wiggle his way back into your lives. You don't think he knows this? How much time have you spent discussing OM as of late? Had any fights because of him? My FWW and I were there. I know the strain it causes. You need to find a way to extract him from your lives and then focus on your M, not him. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We were doing great with minor bumps here and there. Now we are fighting like cats and dogs. OM accomplished his goal!

YEP!!

ALWAYS REMEMBER THAT IT'S A GREAT DAY TO BE ALIVE

Stanley,

Hope my long post to you was helpful and that it didn't upset you too much! Those were MY perspectives, and I don't know what's going on in the head of the OM in your case.

To answer some things you said, you mentioned that OM or OW don't deserve anything after the A is ended. I guess I was in dreamland, thinking that everything could be tied up, and we could speak once more like civil people to work out last details (who gets what, etc). While it's not a marriage, sometimes (especially when you were close for a long time) there are details to be worked out. I don't know if I felt "entitled", but I wished it could have ended better.

Again, I *was* concerned for the OW in my case after it had ended. After all, we had spent 3 years of talking daily and I knew her innermost thoughts, worries, etc. I knew how fragile she was and she really had no one outside of me to depend on. Therefore if her H did kick her out, I was very worried about her support system. I just wanted her on the right path so that she'd be okay. One last grand gesture of making sure she was okay. Make sense? I KNOW I wasn't entitled to that, but I did care about her, and just wanted to make sure she was okay for my own peace of mind. Selfish, I know!

About the OM contacting your family, yes, I think it's very wrong, and it's VERY sad. He had contact with them before the A was over, and I'm sure he's just still trying to reach out to them. He doesn't sound like he's in a good place right now. He still sounds sad and desperate. Maybe it could turn into something more scary. I don't know. It's sad that he didn't have enough restraint to keep away.

I see that the OM is deceiving your family by remaining in contact with them, but he's just trying to place himself in a connection with them to feel comfortable, AS WRONG AS THAT IS!

As far as the OM having a counselor, I'd say that the counselor isn't doing such a great job! Either that or the OM isn't telling the counselor what he's been up to! Sad!

YOu said that Myrta never told the OM that they had a future together, but I'm sure that in this OM's head, he pictured them together, having a future. Sounds like he planned on it, if he was calling Myrta his "wife"!

I'm not defending the OM. I can see that he's in pain and that's sad. Of course YOUR pain is even sadder since you had a marriage contract with Myrta and it was interrupted by their A. So, whether or not I think you're more of a man than the OM doesn't really matter. Your wife is with you and that's all that counts. You seem like a caring, great person, and a great dad and family man. YOu obviously have many good qualities about you. So does Myrta. That's why you have so many people on this thread trying to advise you both! You're both pretty special! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hope you can put this behind you as soon as you feel safer regarding the OM. Good luck!

CC

So help me God if I ever found out that a family member ever selfishly witheld information about a possible danger to me or mine.

We are only as sick as our secrets.

Your secret could be a terminal illness.

<small>[ December 30, 2004, 11:07 AM: Message edited by: BrambleRose ]</small>

To answer some things you said, you mentioned that OM or OW don't deserve anything after the A is ended. I guess I was in dreamland, thinking that everything could be tied up, and we could speak once more like civil people to work out last details (who gets what, etc). While it's not a marriage, sometimes (especially when you were close for a long time) there are details to be worked out. I don't know if I felt "entitled", but I wished it could have ended better.

Why do some people feel entitled? You know what OM wanted to do after D-day? He wanted to have a round table discussion with me and Myrta to see how we were going to deal with the affair and to decide the fate of Myrta. Can you believe this? CC, to me OM is nothing more than a cockroach! A Are you kidding me?? Phew!!!!!

The OM is nothing, he needs NO CONSIDERATION. If tomorrow OM has a stroke and is dying in a hospital he does not deserve a thing, not even a get well card. He operated in the dark-------- under secrecy. He does not exist in daylight. OM cannot be acknowledged by anyone in my family unless it is done under the veil of deception.


After all, we had spent 3 years of talking daily and I knew her innermost thoughts, worries, etc. I knew how fragile she was and she really had no one outside of me to depend on. Therefore if her H did kick her out, I was very worried about her support system. I just wanted her on the right path so that she'd be okay. One last grand gesture of making sure she was okay. Make sense? I KNOW I wasn't entitled to that, but I did care about her, and just wanted to make sure she was okay for my own peace of mind. Selfish, I know!

I agree- selfish.

But, let me tell you one thing. Myrta did not let OM into her innermost thoughts. There are many things about Myrta that OM does not know. OM has no clue about who the real Myrta is just as Myrta has no clue about who the real OM is. Perhaps your case was different, but folks who are in affairs tend to present their best side and hide the bad side. BTW, Myrta has very little of a bad side, but I could tell she was projecting a different personality by the content of her emails.

OM was worried about Myrta. He thought she could be in danger after D-day and wanted to be sure she was OK. How arrogant can these OMs be! It was all BS so he could have a reason to make contact.

About the OM contacting your family, yes, I think it's very wrong, and it's VERY sad. He had contact with them before the A was over, and I'm sure he's just still trying to reach out to them. He doesn't sound like he's in a good place right now. He still sounds sad and desperate. Maybe it could turn into something more scary. I don't know. It's sad that he didn't have enough restraint to keep away.

Thank you!

I see that the OM is deceiving your family by remaining in contact with them, but he's just trying to place himself in a connection with them to feel comfortable, AS WRONG AS THAT IS!

But, then again deceiving comes natural to OMs.

You said that Myrta never told the OM that they had a future together, but I'm sure that in this OM's head, he pictured them together, having a future. Sounds like he planned on it, if he was calling Myrta his "wife"!

CC, folks who are prone to affairs must have a tendency to be delusional. I know my wife Myrta does not have a single bad bone in her body and she has a great heart and noble soul. I have tried very hard to explain her behavior and the only thing that makes sense is delusion or the fog.

<small>[ December 30, 2004, 12:05 PM: Message edited by: Stan-ley ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> So help me God if I ever found out that a family member ever selfishly witheld information about a possible danger to me or mine. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your point is well taken.

Stanley and Myrta - I've read every page and want to tell you both that I'm thinking of you.

I must add to Pep's warning regarding officers - though in a perfect society officers would all be fine, upstanding individuals, I have to tell you that nearly all the departments I've been in contact with (dh is a deputy) suffer from severe amounts of G.O.B.S - good ole boy syndrome. I don't mean that they are all rednecks or anything like that...I mean they look out for their own regardless of the law. The only time I've ever seen them step out of this syndrome is when a) an officer puts another officer in danger; or b) such a public fuss is made the department has no choice but to do something about it.

IF he is on the force, I'll be willing to bet that he feels that this is a safety net for him. And it is. Scary, huh?

I say IF because a picture means nothing. Anyone can get a uniform. Really. You're not supposed to be able to, but with ordering through catalogs or off the internet, a uniform is suprisingly easy to obtain.

Please think long and hard about your silence. Stalkers RARELY go away - in fact, many times they escalate their attention getting schemes till they do receive notice. It doesn't matter the form of attention (positive or negative), any attention is "good" to them.

Be careful. Please. You've re-discovered each other. This person is trying to usurp your hard work, devotion to each other, and love.

- Kimmy

Myrta said:
"My daughters IM him first after the NC was already in place."

Stanley said:
"2. During the days shortly after D-day one of my daughters talked to OM via IM because Myrta suggested OM could help with her homework regarding police work. One time OM was not on line and his away message was all about Myrta."

If MYRTA SUGGESTED that your daughter CONTACT OM.....AFTER NC WAS IN PLACE.....maybe OM is not stalking your family? Maybe OM feels INVITED BY MYRTA?

Just a thought.

Take care

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I say IF because a picture means nothing. Anyone can get a uniform. Really. You're not supposed to be able to, but with ordering through catalogs or off the Internet, a uniform is suprisingly easy to obtain. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He is a part time cop in Tampa, Fla. I am certain of this because he would call my wife to chat with her while on the job and to get her opinion as to whether someone deserved a ticket or not. OM loved to write tickets, it gave him a sense of power. My wife would often try to dissuade him from giving so many tickets. This info comes from my wife and I am pretty sure is accurate. It is probably unethical for a cop to call his SO to see if someone needs a ticket or not (I would think).

[QUOTE}Stalkers RARELY go away - in fact, many times they escalate their attention getting schemes till they do receive notice.[/QUOTE]

I believe there has been an escalation from phone to personal contact and then to lunch with Myrta’s brother. I hope Myrta keeps me informed of this even if I get real upset. I need to be aware of this activity. What if OM shows up when we are visiting the in-laws? I don’t want to think about this. I would lose my cool!

If he escalates after the letter I sent------------ I will know without a doubt that this man can be dangerous. BTW, in my letter I advised OM I was keeping a dozier of all his contact with my family. I avoided the word stalker on purpose, but he was made aware there is documentation of his activities.

BTW, Myrta’s cell phone number was changed day after D-day. Our home number was finally changed many weeks later. On his last contact OM said he could get these numbers if he wanted because he was in law-enforcement. He could very well have the numbers or he could ask Myrta’s mother for the new numbers.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Myrta said:
"My daughters IM him first after the NC was already in place."
Stanley said:
"2. During the days shortly after D-day one of my daughters talked to OM via IM because Myrta suggested OM could help with her homework regarding police work. One time OM was not on line and his away message was all about Myrta."
If MYRTA SUGGESTED that your daughter CONTACT OM.....AFTER NC WAS IN PLACE.....maybe OM is not stalking your family? Maybe OM feels INVITED BY MYRTA?
Just a thought.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The problem is:

My daughters don't know what is going on. Myrta introduced my daughters to OM------------- they even went to dinner and spent time together. I am not sure how that came about, but I imagine there must have been some heavy-duty fog around them. OM was very gracious, charming (all OMs are), and loving to my daughters.

During the affair when one of my daughters had homework related to police work my wife put her in contact with OM to get some info. Then after the affair ended my daughter needed additional info and probably saw OM online. So there is a chance she may have IM.

Since then OM has IMd daughter again and then remained silent. My daughter thought this was odd and made a comment to her mom about it. Then OM somehow got the ID of another daughter I have and also IMd her while remaining silent. Both daughters think this is very odd. Upon learning this my wife almost called OM. So it is clear OM is looking for a response.

Stanley said:
"I hope Myrta keeps me informed of this even if I get real upset. I need to be aware of this activity."

I hope so too, Stanley. And I think she will <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> .

We all make mistakes in the aftermath of an affair. Heck, I think I made more mistakes than my FWH did.

I believe that if you both continue with Radical Honesty with each other, no matter how upsetting the information is, then you will avoid having secrets from each other that would undermine all the terrific rebuilding you have accomplished so far. Radical Honesty with each other will help you both protect your family.

Take care

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> On his last contact OM said he could get these numbers if he wanted because he was in law-enforcement. He could very well have the numbers or he could ask Myrta’s mother for the new numbers.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes. It's true. VERY easy for law enforcement to obtain. I'm sure the comment was made in passing or as in jest, but you both should take it very seriously. It sounds like this is a typical GOB. They can also get info on where you live using your car tag numbers - or at least what address the car is registered at (tho you already said he had your addy). Good news is that he's only PT. PT are let go of by departments a lot easier.

Good on the dozier. Very good. Log EVERYTHING including times.

Be safe. We care about you both.

Stanley,

The more you talk about the OM, the less I seem to have in common with him, so I don't think that my perspective is relevant. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

After my ex said that it was all over, I tried calling her incessently, getting nowhere. Her H picked up the phone once and said, "I know enough. Please don't call here anymore." At the time, I felt like telling him anything else he'd want to know. He didn't want to ask me anything. Days later I felt like apologizing to him when I realized that he had my trust and we were friends and then he realized that I had been lying to him for these few years. I wanted to apologize. I hope he realizes that I never intended to hurt her, him or his children. It was selfish on both our parts.

Anyway, I WAS concerned about her after that day. Very. And she and I did share a lot--she told me that she only opened up to me about things that she was never able to discuss with anyone, even her H. So, I felt both priviledged and burdoned at the same time, and wracked with worry for her. Don't forget that our relationship started out as a good friendship. Myrta's case was different. She and I didn't just present our "good sides". We exposed the bad sides too, and she told me that she was ONLY able to expose her deep, dark side to me.

I'm sorry if I didn't express to you that I DO feel badly that this OM stepped over boundaries with your family. I feel very badly for you, Stanley and for what he's doing to you and to Myrta. The whole situation stinks. No one wins, but if he continues to drive you 2 apart, then he's winning, right? I hope you don't let that happen!

YOu mentioned that people in affairs "tend to be delusional". I agree, to a certain extent, and I think that the OM is still a bit delusional, so I'd keep my guard up and do everything you can to protect your family. You're both doing the right thing. I just hope that he doesn't step over the line any more than he already did!

CC

I wanted to apologize. I hope he realizes that I never intended to hurt her, him or his children. It was selfish on both our parts.

This is the main difference. You are not evil and you cared about what this other man was going thru. There is a lot to be learned when one chooses remorse and then tries to grow as a person. Do you think Myrta’s OM will ever apologize? Not likely!

And she and I did share a lot--she told me that she only opened up to me about things that she was never able to discuss with anyone, even her H. So, I felt both priviledged and burdoned at the same time, and wracked with worry for her.

Myrta is VERY PRIVATE. I doubt she shared anything of significant importance other than low self-esteem, which was the main theme of the affair.

I'm sorry if I didn't express to you that I DO feel badly that this OM stepped over boundaries with your family. I feel very badly for you, Stanley and for what he's doing to you and to Myrta.

Myrta and I are fighting. She does not like it when I spill my guts in the forum, but this is my only outlet to vent my frustrations. I get very hurt when Myrta minimizes the actions of OM. She has always done that and that REALLY hurts. It feels like a 1000 Lbs at once.

CC- I know I sound harsh and that I CANNOT control my passion to say nasty things about OM. I know quite well that every time I say something nasty about OM it resonates badly with Myrta because she admired him and his actions reflect poorly on her. I suspect my constant bickering about OM probably resonates badly with you too. I apologize if my words sound offensive. Trust me, they are directed at OM and no one else. It is then only coping mechanism I had from D-day and I still use it.

BTW, you always say what you feel and that is a nice quality. I know Myrta enjoys your conversation!

Aww, Stanley, don't worry about possibly hurting my feelings! I know where you're coming from and I think it's perfectly normal to have pent up anger over the whole A and over the OM. How could you not see him in a bad light?? My H saw my ex-OW as a friend though, so he had some more background on her and he cared about her. He doesn't speak with hatred about her--he'd just rather not hear her name being spoken-it's too painful, still.

It's good that you come here to talk about your feelings. I'm happy that you have a place to do that! And, you're right--I always say how I feel. I rarely hold things back! So, you'll know exactly where I'm comin' from at all times.

One more thing--maybe I could shed some light on why it bothers Myrta to hear such negative things about the OM (or OW in my case). I know that when I hear people speak badly of the OW, it makes me defensive of her, because I still believe that there were many good qualities that drew me to her. I wouldn't have had the A, and I wouldn't have crossed that line with her, had she not been an extraordinary person. Sure, she and I both had BAD qualities that enabled us to cross that line, but, had anybody met her not knowing about the A, they would have found her to be exceptional, like I did. Does that make sense?? I'm certainly not idolizing her--both she and I deteriorated in the end of our relationship, and we became bitter, angry and mean. But what drew us together was the fact that she was a very nice person. This act that we both did was VERY much out of character for us both! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

CC

CC:

I have a cousin whom is a consummated OM. Probably had dozens of affairs in his marriage. He comes from a dysfunctional household; his dad was also a BIG TIME OM. If you meet my cousin you would never--- in a million years guess his true character. He appears to be a good Catholic, a great dad, a man involved in charity, soft spoken, a gentleman-------- you named it. Like his dad he is all charm. For years I used to tell Myrta how incredible my cousin was and how he was not like his father (MR. OM). He had me fool until one day when his wife spilled her guts to me. He even cheated on her while they were dating!

There is nothing wring with being a ladies man. My dad was a ladies man and had tons of girlfriends. However, when he got married at age 29 he stopped being a ladies man. He advised me to stay away from married women when I was young. He taught me about honesty and he never cheated on my mother.

<small>[ December 30, 2004, 10:30 PM: Message edited by: Stan-ley ]</small>

Stanley,

I guess that your point is that it's hard to pick out a cheater. I always assumed that I had a good radar for people with good character, but look at how much I've changed! <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> Anyone weak enough could become a cheater, I guess, no matter how good a person they seem to be.

CC