DD,

Please don't do this stupid thing. Your life is not worth what your WW is doing! You have children right? What about the permanent hurt of them losing their dad?? They will be devastated forever. Do you want to bring that on them? Call the hotline please NOW

Dear Dad - I hope you'll take the advice that FF is offering - I'm sorry you are hurting, and although that may seem to mean nothing to you now, in time, the idea that so many people who don't know you still are taking the time to be involved and help you through this difficult time, it will mean a lot.

Please know that what you've proposed on the InRecovery thread is not really an option to end everyone else's suffering - it will only add to it! Regardless of the explanation you leave, your child will never understand why their love wasn't enough to keep you here with them. I pray you'll reconsider what you've written. We all say some crazy things, and I'm hoping this is just a vent for you. Lots of people are here to help you through this.

Prayers for your well-being,
~YL

One can think of few more tragic events in a child's life than the death of a parent. . . .

[In his book titled Fatherloss: How Sons of All Ages Come to Terms With the Death of Their Dads (Hyperion), author Neil Chethik reports on interviews he conducted with 376 men whose fathers had died at various stages in the sons' lives. The result is a moving and stereotype-shattering chronicle of how men cope with the death of their dads.

. . .the death of one's father in childhood is almost always devastating. That's because fathers are supposed to be protectors, guides and role models for their children, and especially for their sons. A father's death can cause tremendous confusion concerning these issues.

Indeed, 65 percent of the men Mr. Chethik interviewed reported that they were affected more by their fathers' deaths than by any other loss in their lives. Twelve percent eventually began abusing alcohol or drugs as a means of coping with the aftermath of their fathers' death.

The elementary school years seem to be a particularly difficult time to have a father die. Children of this age often fantasize that the father still is alive - perhaps in prison or living somewhere else. One man interviewed by Mr. Chethik recounted how as a 7-year-old, he would spend hours sitting patiently by the front window of his home, waiting for his father to return.

Suicide, according to Mr. Chethik, only adds to a child's difficulty in adjusting to paternal death for several reasons. First, in cases of a father's suicide, children are more likely to feel angry with their fathers for having died - and that anger tends to increase over time.

Second, such children are more apt to feel guilty about the circumstances of their fathers' death, believing there must have been something they could have done to prevent their fathers from taking their own life.

Third, when children lose their fathers to natural causes, others tend to empathize with them. When a father commits suicide, however, the reaction tends to be very different. The children often come to feel ashamed of the how their fathers' died, believing it is something they need to hide.

Finally, children whose fathers' die of natural causes often come to idolize their fathers, seeking information about them and wanting to emulate their behavior. The situation is much more complicated when a father commits suicide. Instead of wanting to be like their fathers, these children often feel a need to be different because, they conclude, if they are too much like their fathers, they might follow in their fathers' footsteps and commit suicide themselves.

Helping children cope with the death of their father is never easy. Helping them cope with paternal suicide is even harder. These suggestions may help your son deal with his father's suicide.

First, remember that everyone grieves differently, even children. Some children cry; others do not. If your son does cry, let him know that's OK. If he doesn't, don't make him feel guilty about not crying. Indeed, Mr. Chethik found many sons reported feeling there was something wrong with them because they didn't cry. If this is the case with your son, reassure him that not crying is OK, too.

Second, help him understand that the suicide was the result of his father's illness - depression - and that there was nothing he could have done to stop the suicide, nor was there anything he did that caused his father to take his own life.

Third, encourage your son to stay connected to his father. He might, for example, write letters to his father - even if they are angry letters. You also might suggest that he keep something of the father's to remember him by. You could, for example, help him put together a box of his father's things that he can go through when he feels a need to be close to his father.

Fourth, encourage men who already are a presence in your son's life, such as a grandfather or uncles, to maintain close and comforting relationships with him. Boys need their fathers. When their fathers are not available, they need other men to offer them loving attention, such as taking them to the park or reading them stories. . . .

By Wade F. Horn, Ph.D., Director of the National Fatherhood Initiative and the former United States Commissioner for Children, Youth and Families.

Dalton Dad,

Know that people care.

Kids need Dad to come through the crises....so that Dad has experience to help kids with their crises in life.

Take care

dalton dad,-
please listen to these people. i am a BH also 10 weeks past DD and i admit it sucks, but think about all the people this would hurt. i understand about no patience with the kids, i am there to, but they still need you. i know it makes me feel guilty having no patience towards my kids, but when i snap or yell at them, i just apolagize and ask them to forgive me. they always do, and yours will to. there are a lot of people that care for you, on this thread and in your life.please come here to vent and for encouragement and know that you can do this and have a good life no matter what happens. i was 30 when i lost my dad, and i still think about him and miss him nearly everyday. i wish he were here now to help me thru this mess i am in.
are you on AD'S? go to a dr. i didn't want to, but they are helping me cope. no shame in that....
we love you and feel your pain.

arjdad

**** you for making me cry again papermom!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I hurt so bad inside. I know this is the right thing. In my heart I feel there is nothing more right. It doesn't feel ugly. It doesn't seem stupid..

but you made me cry...for my children.

well guess what....

or guess why?

they love their mom more!!!

they ignore me. I feed them 99% of the time. get them dressed when I am around, play with them most times. Teach them how to speak, read, manners, art, writing, ethics. You name it I try in some small way to teach it.


BUT!!!!!!!

Guess who gets the credit for the smart kids.
Or
The well behaved kids?
or
the loving children
or....or....or......or....who do the kids love?

oh that would be Mommy.

And guess who gets treated like a queen?

oh wait no need to call Ms. Warwick. I can tell you that too. Mommy does!
And by who...

By Daddy.

But...oh

guess what. That was never enough.

Nope. Loving her with all my heart.
Letting her sleep in each and every day I was home.
Cleaning the house with my every available moment.


nope not enough either....


how about.... working 60 hours a week plus all the above...

nope... that wasn't enough either


I busted my butt for that woman.

What I have to show for it will always be scars and wounds.

SO FRIGGING TELL ME WHY I SHOULD LIVE

I TOOK A VOW TO LOVE HER TILL I DIED!!!!!!
WELL GUESS WHAT? I CAN'T DO THIS ANY MORE.
I WON'T DIVORCE HER! SO I CAN ONLY KILL MYSELF!

THAT IS THE ONLY HONORABLE THING TO DO!!!!!!!!!!

HONOR.

Does anyone know about that?

Read Shogun!

You'll begin to understand.


Man and Woman

Life and Death

Duty....

Dalton DAD,

U R in the same boat as many a BS dad here. Worse sitch than some yet better than others. Sad but true.

While you may feel that your children don't appreciate you and give the WS more credit than she deserves, you need to realize that children often do that as a protective mode.

They probably see and know more than you realize. They know you are ok and will not forsake them but they are not sure about the WS and kind of want to plan A her in an effort that she will want to stay with them and forsake the A.

Reality will hit them soon and when it does, you will have to be there to help heal their little hearts. The wound will be big and if you think you have anger, they will also. Yet she is their mother so it will tug at their very souls. After all she is a part of them as you are. But you are loyal and she is not.

So for now, console on the fact that you are being the best father you can be.

Keep posting here.

Vent as needed.

take care,
L.

Dalton:

OMG you sound so much like me....I think those same things, I wonder to myself why the kids don't choose a side, they seem to be more on my WH side than mine. But I know they love me and your children love you too.

I have said these exact same words...I refuse to divorce my husband......that this way he'll get what he wants, to be rid of me. But ya know what screw what he wants....and screw what your wife wants, I'm not making it that damn easy on mine. He's gonna have to fight me every step of the way!

Dalton....don't do this, if for no other reason...do it because I want to talk to you, put it off a while longer and talk to me, can you do that?!

-Caren

Man and Woman

Life and Death

Duty

It's the last that you need to focus on, DD. Not man and woman, not life and death. Once you had kids all that changed. It's not just about you and her anymore. Where are you right now DD?? Office? Home?? Get that hotline number out and TALK. You need to do this at the very least for the kids. Humor me. Post...make a commitment to get on the phone and call the hotline. You need to hear a soothing, calm voice right now and you will. Pick up the phone and call. It's okay for you to cry DD, but it's not okay to have your kids crying cause Daddy's dead. {{{DD}}}

Dude...

Children... DUTY...

Carrying this burden... duty...

Suicide? That's running from duty.

I've faced those thoughts too, m'man. And what pulled me through, was... oh, wait, no need to call Mrs Warwick... DUTY!

Who in the heck is Mrs Warwick anyway?

Please listen.

This too shall pass.

And how you handle it NOW will dictate where you find yourself when it DOES pass.

And how you handle it NOW will ALSO teach your children about how to handle some of the horrid curve balls life throws us.

Think about this.

The pain and hopelessness that you are feeling now is temporary. Time passes. All things pass. This too shall pass.

Oh, and one more thing... about the kids. My wife and I have alternated being the stay-at-home parent over his whole life.

One pattern that we've noticed is that the kids have no idea how to properly show appreciation for the parent who's doing the actual work. They don't figure it out until they're in their late 20's. And that's when it really makes a difference.

Yes, it sucks, but taking it personally is akin to smacking yourself on the back of the head with a frozen herring.

Come here and write more. We will help you with a plan and you will see how you can not only get through this, but come through on the other end stronger, happier, and better.

John

DD - glad to see you are still here - reading and posting...I understand your pain, but as Orchid said, your children simply don't understand. And, if they their mom as an unstable part of their world, they will try to hold on to her however they can - and in most instances by showing her more attention. Most children have not yet learned that the "rock" in their life is really the stable parent that they can count on, so they cling to the one who seems to be unstable, hoping that with their love, everything will work out.

PLEASE be the rock for your children.

DD,

I am sorry you are in so much pain. I really know how you feel. I know how sometimes you start to think that things would be better if you were not around. Everything would be easier and WS would finally understand the depth of your pain. But what would it matter, you wouldn't be here to see it, would you?

About your kids. When I talked with my counselor about taking myself out of the situation, so to speak, he went off on me. He said that what happens is that your kids will always be stuck emotionally where they were when you took yourself out. They will always think that they were an underlying reason, regardless of how much someone tries to convince them otherwise. They will always carry the pain and the guilt. Can you do that to the children you love so dearly? Can you be positive that someone will always be there to protect them if you aren't there? How much do you love your kids? Do you love them enough to fight threw the urges to end your pain? I am betting that you do.

My neighbor's 11 year old lost her Dad to suicide a few months ago. He caught his girlfriend out with another guy and went home and blew his head off. Two weeks later that same girlfriend was out partying and having a great time. What he did had no impact on his girlfriend. But he can never be there for his daughter. She had no Dad to celebrate Christmas. She was with her Mom of course but she will never be able to spend another moment with the man that coached her baseball team, or the Dad who took her in when her Mom's newest boyfriend didn't care for her. My heart goes out to that child. Do you want that for your kids?

Kids take their parents for granted. They know who takes care of them and who loves them and usually they don't make a big deal out of that person because they know that you love them and will always take care of them.

You can get through this!

Cathy

<small>[ December 28, 2004, 08:55 PM: Message edited by: boobyprize ]</small>

DaltonDad,
I hope that you're still here, reading these posts. I felt like you did just a few weeks ago, out of the blue, and it was OVERWHELMING. I posted here. I slept a lot. I felt so deep in the middle of it that it was very hard to pull myself out. But, PLEASE think of your children. They still need you. This would affect their lives forever. I know it sounds like the easy way out right now, but you're not thinking clearly. THINGS WILL GET BETTER. THEY WILL. You just have to hang on!

CC

dalton dad,-
i know that my son would say he loves mommy more than daddy[ he has told me], but he is only a child. you know they love you too. it sounds like you are a great dad, and that is what your kids need and deserve.believe me, someday they will look back, and they will know all the things you did for them. can you remember some things your dad did/does with you? kids are a lot sharper then we give them credit for sometimes. there are a lot of BH'S here who understand how you feel. talk to us. maybe we can help you some, and maybe you can help some of us some.i used to think early on that if i went to sleep and never woke up, i would be ok with that. but not anymore. no matter what happens in my M, i still have my kids! and i love my wife with all that i have, and desperately want us to stay together.

please call the hotline and talk to someone.

if you would like my e-mail so we can talk one -on -one i will send it.

i don't want to sound cold, but do you want your kids to grow up calling someone else daddy? no way, cause you are the BEST daddy they could ever have.
love ya like a brother,
arjdad

john...you made me laugh twice (could be the 4th glass of wine too...)
Ms. Warwick would be Deeone (which I can't spell) Warwick of the psycic (can't spell psycic either) friends hotline.
However, the point is....and will be... a man must know his limitations.

and about that frozen herring.

that is a good idea too!

I could take a walk up the hill.


"I would rather be ashes than dust!
I would rather that my spark should burn out in a brilliant blaze
than it should be stifled by dry rot.
I would rather be a superb meteor,
every atom of me in magnificent glow,
than a sleepy and permanent planet.
The proper function of man is to live, not to exist.
I shall not waste my days in trying to prolong them............"

That is my point why....?


I'm too hurt to continue my life. So why try.


I've spent the past 4 or 5 months trying to get over this. I feel no better than day one.

you figure it out.


I can't

I can't see any reason to.

d

DD, please don't do this to your kids. My H has a friend who 37 years ago committed suicide. The guy is messed! Always has been, believes he was responsible for his dad's death. Believes he wasn't a good enough son. You have a responsibility to care for those kids. Please get down on your knees and PRAY. God is with you, I promise. Go to an emergency room or call an hotline!

DD, Jack London continued that credo with these words, "I shall make the most of my days."

Many of us have told you that we've "been where you are" and that your better days are coming, if you'll hang in there and get help. If it weren't for our children, some of us might have made a very drastic mistake.

I was told by another poster on this sight that I couldn't get better by myself, and I think it's true of all of us.

Is there a way you can get help in the city where you live?

DD, I wanted to kill myself during my H's first A. What kept me alive was my kids. I refused to let OW be the stepmom of my kids! Do you want OM to raise your children? NO, you are the daddy they want and need.

you know FF

I feel I was never good enough for my own Father either?!

this is stupid.....
Why is it I can't tell my own wife these things?

Please stop!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

All of you.

Please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm begging

if for no other reason than,

your (F)WS does not know how you feel.

Yep that is right. If none of you know how I feel then how can you tell me what to do.
Telling me you "felt" like this isn't an answer,


!!!!!!!if you felt like this you would not be here today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not to say you don't/ didn't feel pain...just pointing out a fact.

I WS can't imagine our pain. I don't want this any longer.


d

DD, consider this.

My mother lost my father to emphysema after being married to him for 50 wonderful years.

After 3-4 months she couldn't see much point to her life either. Grief and pain take a lot longer to process than that, but process it we do because we are human and we are part of God's plan and pain and grief are part of our human condition.

Consider the terrible tragedy in Indonesia right now - people will recover, people will survive but I bet right now they can't really see much point.

DD, have you seen how many people today have come to your aid on MB.

Love to you, DD, come through this for your children and the people who care about you.

Jen