Hi all. I read in the paper yesterday about the suicide death of Jonathon Drummond-Webb, a world famous pediatric heart surgeon. He was only 45.

He was a pioneer in pediatric heart surgery. He was featured on TV. His last patient just went home before Christmas. This boy was going to die, but Dr. Drummond-Webb put a artificial heart in him until a donor could be found.

As I recall, in the last year, he operated on over 860 patients, and had a 98% success rate, and these were mortally ill children.

Every year, thousands of people commit suicide. Granted, many are not as well known in the world as this doctor. But all of them have family and friends that care about them just as much as if they were famous.

I just cannot understand how people get so depressed that they feel no hope. It is very sad to think about. It must be just unbearable feelings of despair. Prayers to all who feel like this.

"...unbearable feelings of despair"

I can't think of a better way to express it.

dewt

Dewt - Yes that is true. In the doctor's case, he would have saved another 800 children next year.

In the case of us ordinary folks, next year will be better. There are many who need us, even though we fail to realize it.

B-as corny as it may seem, that is why It's a Wonderful Life is my favorite movie. He had no hope, but God sent his angel to show him there is always hope.

What a shame that this man that made so many peoples' dreams come true by saving their children was unable to save himself. He must have been in a very black hole.

There have been so many shocking deaths in the last few days. Reggie White, the retired football player dies at age 43 on Sunday.

We also had a tragedy at work the same day. A much-loved member of our hospital staff died in her sleep at the age of 40. She stopped by our office a few days before and was her usual fun and happy self. No one really understands what happened she appeared to be perfectly healthy, she had some blood pressure problems and family history of heart disease but she rarely missed a day at work. Everyone is shocked and heartbroken.

I think everyone came home last night and told their families how much they loved them. You never know when it is going to be your time and no one wants to regret passing up the opportunity to give someone a hug, say "I love you", or letting someone know how you feel about them. You might never again have the chance to set things right.

Cathy

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You never know when it is going to be your time and no one wants to regret passing up the opportunity to give someone a hug, say "I love you", or letting someone know how you feel about them. You might never again have the chance to set things right.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Amen to that.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by believer:
<strong> Hi all. I read in the paper yesterday about the suicide death of Jonathon Drummond-Webb, a world famous pediatric heart surgeon. He was only 45.

He was a pioneer in pediatric heart surgery. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You cannot imagine how completely devestating this story is. Dr Webb is what i would consider a "true healer". What he did for people is what I someday hope to fractionally do. The world lost a great surgeon Sunday. God I wish he could have found the "help" he gave some many others. The surgical and medical community is in shock over this. For anyone really interested in pediatric heart surger and really medical biography and Dr Webb, please do yourself a favor and read the book entitled:

Walk on Water: Inside an Elite Pediatric Surgical Unit

This is such a great read. I challenge anyone to read this book and not love it. I am very sad today.

Thank you for posting this thread.

LM

LM, we have a "real" drama going on on Dalton Dad's thread.

Do you have any training or experience in suicide threats because I know you work in trauma surgery which must sometimes include people who've tried to take their own lives?

Thanks.

Jen

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by KiwiJ.:
<strong> LM, we have a "real" drama going on on Dalton Dad's thread.

Do you have any training or experience in suicide threats because I know you work in trauma surgery which must sometimes include people who've tried to take their own lives?

Thanks.

Jen </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, I have experience in suicide threats, but unfortunately only AFTER the threat is carried out. DD is in some serious emotional turmoil, but realitically his plight cannot be changed from well meaning posters like yourself. He is calling out for help, but will not be able to truly get it from here. This is all so sad.

Thanks, LM. It IS very sad but I've been here long enough to see people actually helped by all of us. One episode was someone I used to post to a lot who was bipolar and wasn't taking her meds properly. Luckily, it had a happy ending (didn't it MTHeart, if you ever still read here?)

Here's hoping DD will go to the hospital or call a helpline. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Jen

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by KiwiJ.:
<strong>
Here's hoping DD will go to the hospital or call a helpline. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Jen </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Jen:

Amen to that. We can only hope and pray. I am saying a prayer right now for him.

<small>[ December 28, 2004, 10:43 PM: Message edited by: lemonman ]</small>

lemonman,

I disagree that help cannot be gotten here. I know of a person who was suicidal and this board was the only support she had at the time. This board got her through for about a week until she could get professional help.

Btw, she's doing pretty darn good now (a couple years later). I have told her that if she posted now, I don't think people would recognize that it was her <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> .

lemonman, my condolences to you on your recent loss.

Lemonman -

This is all so sad for me too. Reading about this surgeon, and all of the good things he did, and the children he saved is almost unbearable. His friends said that he always thought about the 2% that he didn't save. But who knows? It is a terrible loss.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lemonman:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by KiwiJ.:
<strong> LM, we have a "real" drama going on on Dalton Dad's thread.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">DD is in some serious emotional turmoil, but realitically his plight cannot be changed from well meaning posters like yourself. He is calling out for help, but will not be able to truly get it from here. This is all so sad. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So, what do we do about it? This is not the first time someone posting on this list has said they wanted to commit suicide. This is a SERIOUS question for everyone here - what can we / should we try to do in this situation? Is there anything we CAN do? And if we don't hear back from the posters, what then? I'm really troubled by this.

guys, where in NY is dd?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Deja Vu:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lemonman:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by KiwiJ.:
<strong> LM, we have a "real" drama going on on Dalton Dad's thread.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">DD is in some serious emotional turmoil, but realitically his plight cannot be changed from well meaning posters like yourself. He is calling out for help, but will not be able to truly get it from here. This is all so sad. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So, what do we do about it? This is not the first time someone posting on this list has said they wanted to commit suicide. This is a SERIOUS question for everyone here - what can we / should we try to do in this situation? Is there anything we CAN do? And if we don't hear back from the posters, what then? I'm really troubled by this. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think you have to now locate his area and call 911 and the suicide line. In reality though, there many not be more that we can do. PLease don't shoot the messenger here. I hope you can post him off the ledge, but in reality, if hi is gonna fo it, stropping him from this message foruims may be hard, but $hit, I will try wioth you if you yhink it willwork.

lemonman,

I'm concerned about you too. DD's current state must be harder on you than it is on us due to your own recent loss.

I'm so sorry you're going through all this lemonman. Let the board know if there's anything we can do to help you in your grief.

Take care

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by LovingBoundaries:
<strong> lemonman,

I'm concerned about you too. DD's current state must be harder on you than it is on us due to your own recent loss.

I'm so sorry you're going through all this lemonman. Let the board know if there's anything we can do to help you in your grief.

Take care </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">`

I AM DOING fine thanks. Sad, but ok, Thank you for asking?

Lem

I am not familiar with the story of the surgeon only what was printed on this thread.

What I am amazed at is the sheer lack of forward thought.....

This surgeon may he rest in peace,
not only took his own life,
he has devastated
his family for generations,
all those who worked with him,
all those survived because of his unique skills
all those who would have hoped to saved by him
he had the power to save lives a lot of peoples lives, so many
he had the power to impact on so many people positively
he and he alone had the choice
he chose to hurt others to relieve his own pain instead of getting help

By doing what he did
he hurt those who love him
he hurt those who care about him
he hurt those who need him now
he hurt those who will need him in the future
he has denied his children a father
he has denied his grandchildren a grandfather
he has denied his parents a son
he has denied his existence

for what?

The personal belief his pain was more important and felt to big for him to get help?

He had the power to relinquish control of himself to someone who would care for him properly & help him be happier within himself.

I have been taken to the edge before nothing wordy can adequitly describe the depth of that pit I sat with a man I love dearly who was at the point of becoming soulless.

He had a lot to live for he just couldn't see it he was blind with his own internal agonies.

It took courage, it took him great courage to dare take a glimpse beyond himself into life he did not want to see the tears of his children at his funeral yet he did not want to see the tears of his children for the current torment he was suffering.

He wanted the pain to stop, he wanted peace. He would not allow himself at that moment see alternatives.

He is with us still today.

It was his gift to us to give up his life for us, he didn't realise we wanted him, alive, he was better to us alive.

We'd have no one to pick on, to love as much, to fight as good with, to hug with, to hurt with, to be there for as good as him. We needed him.

He owed us.

So we made a pact. As a grown man to give his family & friends 6 months. Then decide again.

During those 6 months spend the time exploring reasons to live, to give more, to love better, and actually do it. Being fully conciously aware of each & every encounter & interaction you have with any & all other people, so that you leave them feeling better for having met you - that last one was hard to prove, it was accurate, it did happen, and through practice changed a man's perspective of himself, and his values in life.

It is 24 months since that horrible bleak cold (why is it always cold?) morning. That man is who he always was, a loving caring wonderful man, living happily with his children, planning for their futures with him.

It's hard to get through when on the cusp.
Reality is all in how each individual experiences it to themselves. What we can only offer is our support & friendship, & possibilities for future outcomes that may not have been thought through fully.

I'm neither a practioneer hats off to LM, nor a trained counsellor, we each make of life what we can, when faced with choices - those decisions just become easier to make when shared with someone who actually listens honestly with an open heart & mind.

My wishes of peace & care to those who do.

Ktulu

Here's some links for info on suicide, prevention and suicide survivors. I don't have a clue how to make them actually links but at least there is a list of helpful sights for Dalton and anyone who is distressed over Dalton.

Tiggy

Friends for survival
http://www.friendsforsurvival.org/
Survivors of suicide, san diego
http://www.sossd.org/
American Association of Suicidology
http://www.suicidology.org/
American Foundation for Suicide Prevention
http://www.afsp.org/
Suicide Prevention Advocacy Network
http://www.spanusa.org/
Suicide Awaremess/voices of education
http://www.save.org/
The Compassionate Friends
http://www.compassionatefriends.org
Crisis, Grief and Healing
http://www.webhealing.com/honor.html.
Suicide Survivor's Handbook
http://www.intertain.com/store/ssurv.html
Suicide Frequently asked questions
http:www.lib.ox.ac.uk/internet/news/faq/archive/suicide.info/html
Sascha L.A.R.G.O.
http://www.geocities.com/HeartlandHills/9869
http://www.1000deaths.com

<small>[ December 29, 2004, 12:39 AM: Message edited by: Tiggy ]</small>