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#1249294 01/02/05 09:53 AM
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Intruder:

To read about any member, click on "directory" shown at the top of the page-enter their displayed name, then click "search". This will give you the last 50 posts from that member.

If you want to read all of the posts from a member: Click on "search"-enter the member's number where it says, choose the forum(s) ("General Questions" is the most popular) and click on the "search" box.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You all probably understand that there is SO much more to every aspect of this story that it would have to be a chapter book for me to express all the details of all of it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This sentence caused me to remember one important exercize you can do that will help you tremendously. Begin and keep a personal journal. Include as much or as little detail as you desire, but take the time to write one. It will be invaluable to you emotionally and logically. Remember; you are not your normal self right now (none of us were/are during this!)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I/we have a lot of friends in that class. Students/parents. We have been there a long time. It's not the instructor but the people that we have grown close to. He has been attending there for many years. He is a black belt, that takes awhile. But you are right. As sad as it is, they screwed this up too, Bad. It is so DAMN depressing. But you're right, I think we will just have to be done with TKD. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Suggestion: Take a little time and find another instructor/TKD facility. After finding another that you are comfortable with; ask some of your friends how they feel about "instructor selfish". It may be that he has made enemies among your friends. Perhaps several of the families would entertain a move. I am not suggesting to quit TKD, just remove yourself and S from the jerk!

Lastly; I see that "Orchid" has taken an interest in your story. You may not realize it yet; but you're being blessed by this and I can only say that you should pay attention to her every word. Orchid has a tremendous personal story and is highly respected here. Her advice is golden!

Good Luck Intruder. If I can help anymore, send a shout.

FR

#1249295 01/02/05 10:56 PM
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Hey Fishracer,

I am SO frustrated. Today was a bad day. She came here today, that didn't go so well, I ran over my $200 cell phone with the Motorcycle AND I just spent the last hour responding to your last post to lose it all because I was not logged in.

One thing (out of many, I had some really important stuff I asked and stated) I said was I do appreciate all of your input. I named all of you. I hope you all find peace and happiness. I really do. You all deserve it.

Thank you,
CJ

#1249296 01/02/05 11:01 PM
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CJ,

[censored] happens. With or w/o the A. Sorry you are having a bad day. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

That said, let's help you move forward. Sorry I couldn't post to you last night. I kept reading but I could log in but not post until real late.

FR is providing good support. Keep posting as needed, ok? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Venting is a form of therapy. MB here let's us to that as long as we abide by the website rules. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Notice how interaction with a WS leaves the BS angry? Hmm...... how you gonna handle the next interaction? Let's make this a learning experience sort of like turning the lemons into lemonade. ok? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

L.

#1249297 01/02/05 11:05 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
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Just a helpful posting tip for that nasty logging in thing.

If you make a post and get the screen that says you are not logged in...."right click" on the hyperlink that says "logged in" (or says something similiar). Choose the option to open in a new window or tab, depending on your browser. Go ahead and log in on the page you just opened.

Then go back to the window or tab that should still say "you are not logged in". Hit the "back" button on your browser. Then hit "add reply" again. Your post should come through now.

Or, you can hit the 'back' button first, highlight and copy everything in the text box. Then log in...and "paste" everything you just wrote. First way SOUNDS more complicated but it's really much easier.

#1249298 01/04/05 09:38 PM
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Hi All,

I really wish I wouldn't have dumped that post the other day. I wanted to answer some things in FR's post.

But first,

Orchid

Thank you for your support, but I think I mislead you with my short frustated post. I wasn't frustrated and angry with my WS (anymore than normal ;-) I was F & A at the "post failure" and the fact that my cell phone came off it's clip in the driveway and I accidentally ran over it with the Motorcycle, destroying it. I just bought it a few months ago and it wasn't cheap. It was just a trying day, kids, work, the normal stuff we all deal with, just with some extra stuff. Not to mention I have been in pain to one extent or another since a hospital visit in early December. Makes it easier to get frustrated. As for the WS, she said she was coming to spend some time with the boys and just stayed a few minutes and said she had to go get some sleep (She works nights). I am getting pretty good at using my Sister's 2 word advice which has been VERY helpful. "Expectation management." Don't expect sh-- and you wont be surprised when you get it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Sometimes I just forget. It just gets to me when I see the kids dissapointment. It's hard for them to practice "expectation management". Thanks Orchid!! Thanks for your time and support.

MADDYK

Thanks for the tips. I can handle that, Itried to do that and my computer locked up. I have a new powerful machine that I have not swapped in yet.

FR

Thank you so much for all your time and support. My "lost post" was primarily to you. I will try to hit on most of the things I did in that post.

First, I tried to get your original post. I could only (only?) get the last 300. I was just somehow interested in your first post and how and why you first came here and your state of mind and such.

As for the journal, I have been keeping one from near the onset of this mess that is currently my life. I use it to vent as well as record. Good advice.

On the whole Tae Kwon Do issue. We started this whole thing when my S was a lot younger at a city run facility similar to the YMCA as a summer thing for him when he was out of school and just continued through the year because it was SO obvious to everyone he was a natural. I don't want to sound like a typical Dad, but he really is good. It's awesome to watch. I am really proud of him. It's a city rec center (I had know idea it would become a family "wreck" center). It is associated with the large school in our part of the state that does all the testing and where OM is also a student. I have thousands of dollars wrapped up in that black belt and now it has all been so terribly tarnished and damaged. It makes me furious. If he goes elsewhere, he will have to start over. He knows his forms and all better than most, but you have to stay in each belt for a set period of time regardless. As far as the others I have told the ones closest of the A, and they were shocked and I'm not sure that one or two of them even believe me. There is a lot to this part, but others have been "hit on" by him. I talked to his wife shortly after discovery and she had A LOT (of course) to say. He isn't what he seems she said. I have found out alot about him on my own, but she had a lot to say of him and his "soccor Mom's" She said my W wasn't the first. She said he had clamidia (sp?). I found recent public records about a paternity suit and DNA testing against him. Since all this began, we had a TKD demo (My W even attended) that he brought what can only be described as a Crack whore. I don't know that she was either of those things, that is just jow she looked. As he walked past us holding her hand I couldn't help but take very much enjoyment from watching my W. She tried to act as if nothing happened, but I could tell she was a little.........something. Not long after that he was missing classes and my S would have to give them (He does that whenever he isn't there, which was often there for awhile and gets paid) One of the other parents said he was spending a lot of time with his Hispanic GF. I made it a point to tell my W. Then, not long after that he was making arrangements to go on vacation to the Phillipines. One of the Parents was a native of the Phillipines, so he was talking to her a lot. One night they were talking right next to me and she was telling what he had to do to get her over here with him. She asked how he met her, and he said "on the Internet." He said it like he wasn't an idiot. Anyway, you kinda get the picture. But all these years I have even had the most respect for him. He was so respectful, "Yes sir, No sir" "Thank you Sir" And so damn good with the kids, patient yet stern. Really good. He doesn't treat his own small children that well though.

As his wife pointed out many times in our conversation, he puts on a good front. I parked next to his beat up little Geo Metro one night and it was a mess. Clothes and crap all over. All his pay stubs, dozens of them floating about. One could clearly read his SSN, hourly pay, address, all the stuff on a pay stub (Which I already knew) He's an unorganized slob.

Before I sign off I want to include the E mail that I think brought the A to an end. On one call I recorded I heard my wife say something like he is becoming way too paranoid.

I confronted him a number of times about the number of calls to him from my phone. As many as 30 in a day. He admitted she was calling. He said he didn't take most of them and that she just wanted to talk. He said he should have stopped it right in the beginning ect. She said the same thing, that they were just friends. In fact, when I first suspected, she said "Him?! EEWWWWW" Like gross. He said after my second confrontation with him that he would have to hurt her feelings and just tell her to stop. It was his city phone ect. Then I found more calls and wrote this the night I found them. You have to understand, he had me believing him. He is very convincing. So I was still trying not to make a paranoid fool of myself.

__________________________________________________
*******,

I need you to be up front with me. I have had a lot of respect for you, but at this point I am ready to pull the plug on this whole damn thing.
Obviously, there is more going on than I was aware. I thought, after our last conversation that we had this all figured out. Silly me. I
looked at Crystal's phone this evening. Her phone has your number all over the "received", the "dialed" and "missed" calls. 12:45 am and 1:30 am, pretty hard to justify. Just be honest with me please. I CAN DEAL WITH IT. I am just getting really sick of the bull**** and deception.
Someone is going to get hurt. Someone better stand up and let me know what the **** is going on in the next 24 hours or I will be in contact with folks that I think need to know. This is ripping my children's lives apart.

Awaiting your response,
CJ
__________________________________________________


His response:

__________________________________________________
Chris,
Sorry this has taken so long, I have been on vacation this week and was unable to read my city e mail, I came in only because of your message
(I sent a E to his phone and said "I think you should check your E mail", thinking he might own a computer <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> )

I am unhappy, to say the least that I seem to be getting involved in someone else's family problems.
I will not allow myself to be dragged into this.
I will defend myself only this once and after that you may feel free to call who you want. I have informed all those who need to know about this sordid mess, including the supervisor at ****** Rec and especially my wife.
The only "charge" I can really respond to would be the calls.
I will allow you to talk to my wife just once to clarify, not out of a lack of respect to you, I just will not involve myself in this matter
much more. I understand you are going thru some hard times and if I can ease your mind I will try. But again I must make clear that I do not
want to be dragged into this.
My wife made the calls you are inquiring about. I had explained to her our conversation and upon seeing your wife's # on my cell she wanted to
call her back and have a women to women talk. Your wife has not called my cell much lately, the only message she has left was concerning
whether or not Mathew made it to TKD or not. My wife and I were heading home from a party when she seen a message on my phone, she then scrolled
and seen all the other calls that go back a ways, that was enough for her, I know she tried to call and was unsuccessful. I believe she is strongly committed to speaking with ******* and to make clear our unity on this matter.
As I said, to ease your concerns I will bring my wife to class next week and you can speak to her in private and you will see that everything has
been above board. After that I will completely distance myself from this matter.
Let me know what you would like to do.

Sincerely,

******* **********
Recreation Supervisor
Phone:
Suncom line -
__________________________________________________


WOW! I think I really babbled on here more than I did on the "Lost post". For that I really apologize. I know you all have a lot better things to do, but if nothing else, it helps, I think, to get it off my chest. Tonight was TKD night, we didn't go.

You said "Lastly; I see that "Orchid" has taken an interest in your story. You may not realize it yet; but you're being blessed by this and I can only say that you should pay attention to her every word. Orchid has a tremendous personal story and is highly respected here. Her advice is golden!"

I didn't realize the blessing at first, but from her words I realized she was someone to pay attention to. I appreciate her and respect her as well. Thanks Orchid!

And thanks again FR and the rest of you as well.

"Out here",
CJ

#1249299 01/05/05 08:54 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
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Hey CJ:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">First, I tried to get your original post. I could only (only?) get the last 300. I was just somehow interested in your first post and how and why you first came here and your state of mind and such.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am having trouble retreiving all of my posts as well. Perhaps a veteran can enlighten both of us on how to do that.

My sitch was very much like yours - it would be a good read for you.

TKD-instructor is a copy of OM for me. Preys on vulnerable women - reminds me of high-school stuff. OM is also a used truck salesman (no judgment meant here!) which means he knows how to say all the right things to close the deal. My XW bought into all of it and from what I hear, continues to - despite the fact that he's married and has another W on the side.

Facts are; both TKD-boy and my OM are predators. I contacted his then-employer, presented phone records and his butt was fired the same day. Major LB on my part - but there are several families who worked at the same place and OM was "making his rounds". I wanted it to stop and so did employer. (Yes, I've considered kicking his %&$, but he's the type to have me locked up. Besides; he's not worth it!)

Sounds to me like TKD-boy should be canned as well. TKD is a positive part of life with your S and I would encourage you to continue it. Keep in mind that it's TKD-boy helping to screw up the family, and it has nothing to do with TKD itself!

CJ - you're still in major frustration-mode and we've all been there - so we feel your pain. If you desire to save your M, we will help all we can. The fact is; if you & W can work this out; you have an opportunity to be better than you ever were before as a married couple. That is tough to see right now, but this board has many who are proof of that. The road to success will not be straight & smooth - but it will be worth it. My email address is shown below if you want to write privately. Good Luck!

FR

jmpersonal@yahoo.com

#1249300 01/05/05 08:58 AM
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CJ: Sorry; wrong email address! Correct one: jmpersonal@prodigy.net

FR

#1249301 01/05/05 11:06 AM
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Hey FR,

Thanks for your input. I hope we can get someone to help getting those posts.

What is LB? I have thought about contacting his supervisor (for the city) as well as the Grand Master at the main school. I just would not have any real proof unless my W would tell them, which is unlikely. I have phone records that just proves that someone from my cell phone was calling his cell phone. He claimed the whole time she was just calling to vent problems and just talk. I have phone recordings that are clear proof. But they aren't legal.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sounds to me like TKD-boy should be canned as well. TKD is a positive part of life with your S and I would encourage you to continue it. Keep in mind that it's TKD-boy helping to screw up the family, and it has nothing to do with TKD itself! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">One thing I have not mentioned, my S is resisting (majorly) going to TKD. I am pretty sure he doesn't know, but then I wonder. I heard a recorded phone call where W was telling friend early on in their sleazy A that he tried to kiss her in the hall while S was changing but just then S came out of bathroom. Man, when I write and re-remember that, HOW STUPID!! I could, I mean, god, sometimes I feel so violent. He may know. He's the type of kid to not say anything, ever. He has acted different as far as TKD, I wish I knew if he knows.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> CJ - you're still in major frustration-mode and we've all been there - so we feel your pain. If you desire to save your M, we will help all we can. The fact is; if you & W can work this out; you have an opportunity to be better than you ever were before as a married couple. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">FR- I do want my M and my life back SO BAD I have tried over the past 14 months. I was not the perfect H I know, but I was completely faithful and in no way abusive. I am a good provider. She just changed so much after our youngest S was born. She hurt herself when she delivered and had a lot of pain and ended up on Oxicotin (sp?). That seemed to start her problem with pills. She got hooked on them and I went to her pain management Spec. and told him what was going on. She couldn't set a baby bottle on it's flat bottom! She totaled our new ford Explorer, lost control, went into a ditch and lauched back out. Hit a utility pole 12 feet high. The Paramedics said that had tha baby been in his car seat he would have been killed. He was at G&G's thank God. One of them said he told his partner as they arrived on scene that he expected fatalities. It looked real bad. No one was seriously injured. Again, I thank God. She was going to get more Oxicotin from her friend (Who she lives next door to now) when this happened. She got off of them after going through really ugly withdrawals. I never knew that withdrawals cause physical pain. Anyway, since then she takes ALOT of Ephedrine(even just recently I have found these in her possession) . I have seven bottles that I confiscated from her. I calculated she was at one point taking an average of 30 a day. Then, she takes a ton of sudafed. Someone told me this is uppers and downers. I just know it can't be good.

Anyway, I do want my marriage to work, I would do anything. She knows this. I have tried different approaches, right now I am trying to give her space. Whenever I feel we are getting anywhere at all she turns on the cold. It hurts SO bad, the things she says. "I don't want to be married" "I don't love you anymore" I don't want to try or get help, I don't want it to work". She says it like she doesn't want to hurt me and she says she doesn't want to hurt me. It would have been easier had she just shot me in the head while I slept. How can someone drive a knife in someone's chest and sincerely say "I don't want to hurt you while I am doing this." I don't know what to do, I am afraid of my own future!

Man, I should NOT be doing this, I have to get back to work. Thank you again for your time FR.

#1249302 01/05/05 02:13 PM
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Hey Chris:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What is LB? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">“Love Bust”. Basically we “love bust” any time we do or say something that is not productive for a healthy marriage - regardless of who is at fault, or who is having the affair! You can read more about it on the Marriage Builders main site.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have phone records that just proves that someone from my cell phone was calling his cell phone. He claimed the whole time she was just calling to vent problems and just talk. I have phone recordings that are clear proof. But they aren't legal. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I would approach the Grand Master with no proof, but in person. Be respectful, but frank. Tell GM what’s going on, and that the guy is a predator. Offer proof, (phone recordings are fine, this is not a trial) however my belief is that once the GM is informed (in person) then TKD-boy will quickly be gone. GM should not challenge you – you are a paying, loyal customer and GM realizes that this scandal could affect his business & reputation.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">One thing I have not mentioned, my S is resisting (majorly) going to TKD. I am pretty sure he doesn't know, but then I wonder. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do not underestimate your son’s ability to know the truth. I’ll bet he knows – and is unsure what to do. If he does know; he is in a conflicted, painful position and is most likely unsure what to do. (Someone other than his Dad is acting like a H with his Mom. And S is continually brought to this guy by those he loves.) Of course he will be confused. Note: This is just a portion of the collateral damage from A’s.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">FR- I do want my M and my life back SO BAD
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know you do!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She got off of them after going through really ugly withdrawals. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I’m not so sure she is clean! </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Anyway, since then she takes ALOT of Ephedrine(even just recently I have found these in her possession) . I have seven bottles that I confiscated from her. I calculated she was at one point taking an average of 30 a day. Then, she takes a ton of sudafed. Someone told me this is uppers and downers. I just know it can't be good.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You’re right – it’s not good!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Anyway, I do want my marriage to work, I would do anything. She knows this. I have tried different approaches, right now I am trying to give her space. Whenever I feel we are getting anywhere at all she turns on the cold. It hurts SO bad, the things she says. "I don't want to be married" "I don't love you anymore" I don't want to try or get help, I don't want it to work".
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Have you studied any about “the fog”. WW is neck-deep in fog-babble. Are you familiar with Plan-A? Read about it in Marriage Builders Site. In the meantime, look at one of “Orchid’s” posts on here about fog-babble and so on. Orchid’s system works and would do wonders for you in dealing w/WW.

Chris: It looks like you're dealing with more than one addiction in WW. The drug-deal and the A has got to be tough on you! You may strongly consider some IC (individual counseling) just to help you in normal day to day activities. I know how much you want to save the M; but it's going to be a hard road even when you're 100%. Maybe even consider calling Steve Harley - he was a big help to me.

I'll help any way I can. Good Luck.

FR

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