Hey Rman, Know you were going to be away from the computer for a few days, but was wondering how you were doing. Let us know how you are and happy new year. Take care of yourself. ss <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Rm,

You got some great advice here. All of the things you have said and felt, I have also. I even feel them from time to time now. Go back and read my posts starting in June 2002. You will see how I felt.

In January 2003, when my wife came to reconcile with me, JustLearning and others came to me when I was saying the same things as you. "How can I trust her? How can I get the image of her and OM out of my head? How can I be intimate with her again?" And on and on. As a matter of fact, I actually saw them together sexually, so it isnt something I had made up in my mind. You know what everyone told me? Same things they are telling you now.

Wait. Take it slow. You dont have to trust right now. Look at the section on infidelity on the MB main site. Dr. Harley talks about the fact that you dont need trust to get started.

Do you know what got me over the hump in regards to seeing my wife with OM? You know what got me to begin to stop obsessing about all of that? It was her beside me every night. It was her doing things for me. Eventually, it was her being intimate with me.

The human brain has an extraordinary way of forgetting things. That fish you almost caught gets bigger and bigger with each telling of the story. And as you begin to rebuild with your wife, the OM and what they did become smaller and smaller. What will matter is short term memory. And you will begin to build new memories that will over shadow these horrific ones.

I also wanted to mention one other thing. Your anger is justifiable. I felt exactly the same way. But do you know what is NOT justified? Taking it out on her! If you are angry, tell her you are angry. And then get away for a little while to cool down. You can express your hurt, pain and distrust without LBing her. Without abusing her. And believe me...I know. Many times, I hurt our recovery because I would want to lash out at her and give her what she "deserves." But you are called to love your wife like Christ loves us. That means not giving her what she deserves...but instead giving her grace and forgiveness.

It is hard. I wont lie to you. But you have to find a way to channel that anger somewhere else. Find a way to turn it into something else. And eventually, find a way to drop it. Anger is based on something else...FEAR! Get past the anger and get to what is scaring you. Let her know what those fears are.

You know what? She expects you to lash out, to give her what she deserves. That is why she is scared. But, when you dont do that...when you give her what she doesnt deserve...then she will no longer fear. And she will begin to give you all that she has.

You are the man here. You are the spiritual leader. While it isnt fair, you need to understand that it is your responsibility to lead your family out of this...to lead her out. She may have done all of this, but it is you that now has to lay the groundwork so that you can both feel safe.

I hope this helps.

In His arms.

<small>[ January 04, 2005, 08:50 AM: Message edited by: Mortarman ]</small>

Folk - I can't thank you all enough. I feel so blessed to have you all in my corner. I really don't have the mind to respond individually but the same sentiments and advice seem to resinate from all of you.

Even having said that, I nearly quit my new job today as a result of the feeling of utter helplessness and despair. Fortunately I was talked out of it by my colleague / manager.

I am having trouble sleeping right now, woke up alert at 3am and couldn't get back to sleep very easily. Hot / cold sweats, 1000 thoughts of failure in my mind....

I spoke to WS yesterday, and expressed what many of you have said that I should. Absolutely no blaming, LBing etc, although WS seems to be doing this to herself right now.

I explained " that no matter what happens to us, I thought MC is absolutely essential and if she wanted to go that I would be glad to do so". I explained that I am making no promises and that she now would need to convince me that things would be different win back my trust, and take responsibility for organising MC. I Expressed how / why I was not capable of doing it at present. I also explained that the actions would speak much louder than the words.

I also explained that I don't quite understand why she wants to reconcile as I / we have not changed anything. Essentially I am the same man that she felt had let her down and I did not feel that she had addressed what caused her to stray. Her response was from very happy to quite sad and she started saying that she had stuffed everything up good and proper. Told her I wasn't looking to assign blame and to look at the reasons it happened. Phew!

To complicate matters, a very nice lady that I have admired / known since I met her a few years ago and I have become quite good friends. She knows that I am a head case, and she is going through similar, although not exactly the same. We do nothing but occassionally go to movies, coffee, call each other, etc. I really don't want to tangle / hurt her in all my problems, nor do I want to distance her as I think we would be great lifelong buddies. If tings didn't work with WS then i think her and I could have a future together. What does this mean, I don't know? (probably trouble)


SS- At the moment I am having both bad and good moments(on occassions at the same time ). I appreciate you all telling me to slow down and take a deep breath as well as to realise that I have to do nothing / very little right now. I have booked to go see a phsychologist (hypnotist) next week to see if that helps me, I am ready to try anything right now.

Again, thank you all from the very bottom of my heart, I don't know how I would make it through without you all!!!

No advice RM, just hoping for peace of mind for you. You sound like you are at a somewhat better place, but I would guess you won't be "there" until you can come to some sort of decision, one way or another and then you will still vascillate on whether it was the right one for awhile.

I think the MC with your WW regardless, is a very good idea! Maybe it will bring some healing and peace for both of you.

I would imagine the road you are starting on will be long and rough, but you will make it! Blessings to you RM!

Good Morning RM,

Glad to see you checked in with us.I would reiterate to just take it slow.The ball is in your WW's court and we will see just how serious she is about reconciling.There is no rush at this point like we have been telling you and counseling(MC or IC) to help you sort this all out is always a good idea IMO.I also continued counseling for a while even though my WH had lied to everyone about a recovery and continued his A.I kept going until I felt I no longer needed the support.I hope your WW will set this up for you.

However,I was saddened to see that you are somewhat involved with a woman at this time.I really don't like to see that in print when a BS is in the midst of a very painful situation and it's happened on more than a few occasions here.You must know that the timing is all wrong to be leaning on this woman for anything,even companionship.She admittedly has her own problems right now.Please don't continue with this person.It's a not a healthy way to start a relationship anyway.It should be a man that you are confiding in.If there is true hope for you and your WW,another woman in the picture is undoubtedly going to make this harder for you and being "lifelong" buddies would also not be healthy if you are trying to repair your marriage.

As you also must know,relationships/friendships with the opposite sex can be "harmful" to you if you are vulnerable.Please don't go there.You must first be divorced and healed before letting another woman in your life inimately,in any way,ok? This woman would do best to spend her time with her H or other woman friends too right now.JMHO.

Much luck and prayers to you with your MC.

O

RM,

The only comment I have, over what I said before is this...you do not have a right to have "live long buddies" with another woman. Period. Close friendships with the opposite sex border on an EA...and do not help your marriage. They are also an invitation to destruction of your marriage and even an affair. At the very least, it will cause your wife anxiety. That "buddy" is not worth losing the person who SHOULD be your life long buddy...your wife.

Go back to my posts. Right before my wife came home, I had the same thing happen. I was talkign to a woman who was going thru the same thing as me. But, I told people on here what I was doing...and you know what? I had my butt kicked!! Go back and read because all of them expressed themselves well. I immediately ended contact with her...and was glad I did. Later, when we were having trouble after my wife came home, I re-established telephone contact with her, because I thought I needed someone to talk to and help me understand why my wife wasnt moving forward...why things werent working. A BIG mistake. My wife found out...and to this day, it has been a thorn in our recovery.

You see, I dont tell you these things because I am being judgmental or dont know what I am talking about. I am saying this because I lived it. This "buddy" will not be helpful to reconciliation or your marriage. If she is right for you, then she will still be right for you when you are not marriaed. But for now, you are married. And as long as you are married, there are no opposite sex buddies. Ever!!

In His arms.

Weaver - thanks for your support / understanding.

Mortarman and Octobergirl, Thanks also to you for your support and understanding. I get the message loud and clear. Even though we are just friends, even though nothing that I couldn't tell my WW about has occurred between us, I understand what you are saying. DANGER Will Robinson <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Mortarman will read your posts, although I haven't had a chance as yet.

Aussieswife, thanks for your perspective from a FWW's perspective on things.

Bye the way, I printed off the whole thread and re-read all your postings last night. It was all definitely excellent advice and I am glad that I re-read all the postings.

Again, thanks to everyone who has posted advice to me on this thread it really has helped me..

Well hi folks, been a long time.

WW still "talking" about trying to reconcile. I am not sure that she gets what would be involved at this stage even though I tried explaining.

She is always calling, trying to see me, crying and being extra nice to me of late, seems like the woman pre A. Spoke to her the other at length about my not being ready just yet. All the trust issues, all the hurt, all the shame and confusion that I am finally getting to deal with. She seems to understand and realise that I'm not going at her pace but wants all the gaurantees that I am unable to provide. All my am offering her at the moment is friendship (and some support). It breaks my heart that this is happening to her.

Some of my friends are getting feed up with the whole mess as one of my best friends told me to get our sh1t together and stop hurting ourselves and everyone else.

I went to her place and saw the washing piled high, that she hadn't cleaned her place in a month, and thought of all the family issues that she brings to the table. I am not sure that I really want all that again. There is still a flicker of love, but now that the haze has lifted I am asking myself if this whole event has changed me and my feelings for her.

I am seeing a counsellor / psychologist to help me. His advice at present is to concentrate on me for a while. Forget everyone else and try to help me. Now thats an interesting concept for me!!

Lot's going on and I pray every day for some sort of sanity and guidance in the chaqos that is my mind!! regards R-Man

<small>[ January 25, 2005, 02:46 AM: Message edited by: RenaissanceMan ]</small>

Happened again today - WW found another reason to call. For any of you that have been here before me, that is, a WS wanting to reconcile and heaving lots of attention on you, what is it that you felt? I am flattered, excited, confused and angry. Happy that WS find me attractive, interasting and angry that she is messing with my healing time.

As previously posted in this thread, nothing seems to make sense to me. Nothing makes me happy, I feel dark all the time, no drive or energy. Can't face another day at work, but need to work to survive.

Any tips on getting over this from those of you that have been here? The psychologist says that this is normal, and when I am whith him I understand. When I am on my own for a few days I seem to get all dark again! Usually feels good to vent to you.

I am sorry that I seemeingly keep asking you all the same questions, but I guess that it is I who just doesn't get it at present!!

<small>[ January 25, 2005, 09:16 PM: Message edited by: RenaissanceMan ]</small>

RM,

Very probably you need to socialize more. Take in some energy from people just being..around.

Being in an empty house after having shared your LIFE with another person..it gets lonesome.

I haven't plan Bd..but my H is military..so trust me..I know all about the empty house blahs.

Invite people over..have food, watch movies. Expect it to seem really quiet and maybe even a little more sad at first after they leave..just be sure to plan frequent [like..several times a week for a while] social innings and outings. Until you get USED to being on your own..then you will begin to crave a little peace and quiet, it's a transition..it is to be respected.

Now I am assuming here that this "depression" you are feeling is superficial in variety..it seems so based on your description..your counselor does not seem concerned about it. This too shall pass. Enough sleep [not too much], good eats, maybe a little extra fat because it is mood stabilizing. Excercise. You will be OK. You do not want to make a decision based on how lonesome you feel...wait until you level out and then think about it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> If she is sincere..she ain't goin' anywhere. If not..no sense wasting worry..it'll take care of itself.

So relax. Have some much needed relief. The sun will rise, bad pop music will be churned out for more money than you or I will ever see <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> , dogs will poop in the yard, and a hundred years from now..no one will even care that this ever happened. Whew.

best wishes

Noodle

RM,

I am guessing you are depressed and perhaps a light dose of meds might help you.

Let me ask you is OM still in the picture? If not, then you have no need to be in plan B. I would suggest that you see her often, talk to her often, listen to what she says, but watch what she does. IF they don't match up, then...you know.

You are seeing things differently now. You can take it or leave it, that is a great place to be so don't be down about it. From this position you have the "luxury" of engaging her and yet not committing to her.

Has counseling started for you two? IF not, then consider doing it yourself. The more you , the sooner you know, the earlier you can make your decision.

Finally RM I will leave you with an observation about my life and those of people around me. We all worry about big decisions, but the reality is when it comes time to make it, it is made for us. There may be several choices but a clear look at the data usually leaves ONLY ONE viable choice.

I think you will find the same thing. So don't worry about this. IT is in her court, seek counseling yes MC as well. IT will help you, it will provide you data, the more you are around her, talk with her, the more data you will gather.

And then you will find that while you have a choice, the best path will be clear to you. Try it, it will work.

God Bless,

JL

RM,

Noodle, you are right I need to get more social. I have a new circle of single friend, but the go to singles parties, I don’t feel comfortable at these events even though I am not doing anything bad.

The Depression is normal according to psych, says totally expected given the upheaval in my life, so that’s reassuring. Am always tired, though, no motivation concentration and feeling low. Eating well, though not putting weight back on yet. Have been unable to exercise of late, even though I have been religious about it all my life, no motivation, but I know I need to do it.

WS keeps saying all the right things, but is unable to follow through with actions as I felt was the case in the M. She has stopped seeing OP, only because he dumped her @ss after exposure, and he is trying to rebuild his M. You are right, I shouldn’t talke it to serious, need to make that my mantra about life. THANK YOU Noodle.


==================================

JL, OM is out of picture far as I can tell, only because he dumped her @ss after exposure, and he is trying to rebuild his M.

It hurts to see her at this stage, kind of good and bad, good at the same time, bad later, messes with my head.

I feel like I am letting myself and my supporting friends down by re-engaging with her. Not sure why

Counseling has been ongoing for me, not for WS, Can’t get her to go, although she makes noises about going to joint MC. Ball in her court there. You are right though, the decision will be made, my M is one of several life changing decisions for me. And I am not known for my ability to make decisions and or accept change easily!!! Thanks RM

Hi RM,
Nothing profound to say to you -- just wanted to let you know I think I understand a lot of what you are feeling.
No, I don't believe my WW will be wanting to reconcile, which I'm OK with at this point. So in that sense you're light-years ahead of me. You're in the driver's seat, and there could be worse places to be <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> .

This caught my eye:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Have been unable to exercise of late, even though I have been religious about it all my life, no motivation, but I know I need to do it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don't wait another day! Not sure what you do exercise-wise, but get out there and do it. Maybe the most important thing you can do right now! Force yourself for one day... two days... and by the 3rd or 4th day, you'll start to feel yourself back in the swing of things.

Sometimes I think I might be fighting off some low-grade depression of sorts, and getting to the gym every day is probably THE one thing that's helped most.

Hang in there, and all the best to you, RM!

Hey Rman,

Good to hear from you..I was wondering how you were doing and did a "shout out" thread to you a few weeks back.

I can relate to the mix of emotions that you are feeling. Reconcillation is the thing that we so hope for, pray for, work for and now it is here and we BS's are somewhat indifferent. What gives? For me, xWS and I almost three weeks into recovery. We are living together in our home and he is mostly emerged from fog. We are going to MC with SH, but I "hit a wall" from all of the emotional talk. So where am I at, after all these months...better as my own person. But H is better, but has not learned to fill my emotional needs and frankly I don't know if I am willing to let him because I feel still feel very protected. Is this similar to how you feel?

I agree with the advice given here...go slow, exercise (always a good thing), socialize, and keep plugging away at work. Here's a few thoughts...how would you feel about asking xWS to exercise with you? Or maybe you could take in a movie with her? Too much, how about doing laundry with her...okay just kidding. Her actions must match her words, but sometimes WS's don't know how to take first steps. Doing something while talking with her, might give you both the opportunity to discuss the elements laid out in Plan B. At the end of the activity, you can go back to the safety of your home. And she has something to think about.

You have many options and some great posters giving you some great advice. I hope you will experiment with one of them and see how it goes. Nothing will happen by doing nothing. The road is long, but it starts with the first step.

Be well and be strong, Rman. May God watch over you. ss

tqt - Thanks, I know I need a kick in the backside right now. I think mild D may be the case and exercise is the way to go. Will do some today, and try to sneak some in every other day. Sorry to hera that you are going through tough time. All I can say to you is follow the MB principles and don't give up, because at times it seems like there is no hope, but then bam, sudden shift in attitude or circumstances!!. I probably gave up a little to early and was not rigid enough in my sticking the certain rules (i.e. exposure), but the methods described on MB definitely work, one way or another you will get an answer.

SS - Sorry, I have been online very infrequently. Sorry for not keeping up and asking about you. I have a few firends that are going through the same at present and have been lending them a hand to get through.

WS seems to genuinely want to make amends, but I do not think she understands how tall the mountain that we both would have to climb is. I sat with her last night after dinner and patiently explained all the things that would need addressing, and man was it a massive list. these were all the things that were broken prior to the A. I went to great pains not to lay blame as they were our issues, and pointed out that the M could not have continued to go on as it was, something was going to give, unfortunately I didn't want it be her giving herself to another. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> WS could not understand why I hadn't jumped at R, but I explained the following. Prior to Christmas, WS indicated that she was keen to go to joint MC and work on R. At that point I was very low and explained if she wanted to organise MC that I would happily go, as I thought no matter what the outcome it would help us both heal. I had no strength at this stage to carry on the fight so it was up to her if she was serious. She made all the right sounds, but one month later done zero. Yesterday as part of our discussion I explained that ths was a big concern to me, as lack of follow through was a major problem that I had with her during our M. Is it bad that I told her this, as she now knows and can do just enough to fool me into thinking she has changed.

That aside, I am spending time with her by going out on informal dates occassionaly, dinner, visit her family and have even stayed at each others places recently (no physical contact). When I do this, i enjoy her company, but feel like I am letting myself down by giving in to her. WSis very gentle, soft, sweet and can and has used this to manipulate me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I have single firends now that go to singles functions, they drag me along to get me out of the house(which is great of them). Whilst I have been to a few, I have no desire to "hook up" with anyone right now. Whilst at these functions I have a good time, dance myself silly and have done nothing that I would not be able to do infront of WS. That being said, I feel the most incredible sense of guilt and shame for being there (but it beats staying at home).

I also have a very good female friend at work who is going through similar. I have kept her / the friendship at arms length becuase of the advice I was given by some of the MB sages.

Wow, that's a lot off my chest, feel better.