Pep,

See,compromise.If I only wear my high heels from car to restaurant and back,can I wear my comfy and fluffy slippers the rest of the night? LOL! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Buttercup,

Did I read that correctly?: that you can achive an O without any physical contact???? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> LUCKY!! lol

10Girl,

I'm guessing the reason he filled out his EN questionaire that way was because that is what he felt. That is the only thing I can assume.

He likes certain things, things that he needs. I think it may be a DJ to say the only reason he wants something is because it reminds him of OW. I think he may have been drawn to other woman because of the unmet needs issue.

What your H did is unexcusable, but if we don't find a way to meet each others needs then there may always be an underlying vulnerablity to our M's. Spouses without conviction may seek find thier ENs met in other places. Whether it is the need for an attractive spous, SF, conversation, or domestic support.

If you will not find a way to willingly meet his needs(especially if it is an answer like "no way, no how) , .... well resentment will obviously follow.

10girl said:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My WH mentioned in the EN Q that he wanted me to wear high heels more.I am fairly certain this new found "need" was because the homewrecker dresses a certain way(seen pictures). </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree the Sexual Intimacy is a legitimate need but the idea behind my example was that no one should be forced into accomodating a "need" or desire,what have you,if there is no mutual agreement about it and it's one sided.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Tom,

I agree that my WH did probably fill out the ENQ the way he did because of how he was feeling at the time.Just like me.And,maybe me wearing high heel shoes had nothing to do with the homewrecker,or maybe it did.I will never know for sure now.In either case,I am talking about compromise.I was willing to wear these types of shoes for him occasionally if it pleased him and I was also willing to do even more to please him way back when it seemed we were on the road to a recovery(false).At that time,I did not think of this requirement of me as anything but something I would try to compromise with him about because I did love him.I would not,however,have let him pressure me into wearing them if they were causing me a great deal of pain just so I could look attractive in this way.Obviously there are other ways he found me attractive that I could easily do for him and did not cause me discomfort.

And,I have to say,that your REMINDER,that my WH was probably drawn to the OW by unmet needs is unwelcomed.We all know that this can be a reason why a spouse cheats.But to me it sounds like you are defending him and his needs over the FACT that he chose to cheat. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

If a person feels that are they are not getting out of the marriage what they want after much counseling and time together to try and work out the problems or issues then there IS the possibility of a D FIRST, not adultery.

"No way No how" was not anywhere posted in my replies.Please make sure you have your information correct before implying that I said something I clearly did not.

O

edited for pesky typos

<small>[ January 08, 2005, 11:41 AM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

Hi all!

Have any of you read Dr. Laura's "The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands"? It has really helped me understand my why my hubby needs/wants SF as often as he does. Another great book on the subject is Kevin Leman's "Sheet Music". Again, this book helps you get into the mind of men and SF - as well as women too. It's a great read for both husbands and wives.

I have to agree with Pep with what she said about not being in the mood. If I am not really that "into it" I tell hubby later or tomorrow. But if you do that, it's important to follow through with what you said. If you flake out then your hubby soon feels rejected. Then resentment builds, fights happen, etc.

Chick-chack

10girl,

I am certainly sorry that you took offense to my perspectives. However, I got a distinctly different impression from the way you wrote your posting.

I in no way took your H's side. In fact I wrote:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What your H did is unexcusable, </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't want to go point by point because ... frankly it wouldn't do any good on the board.

However, if a person has an need, does he have to justify that need to his spouse to get it met? It sounded to me that you didn't accept his need as legitimate. Which in turn leaves you to decide what his most important needs are and not your spouse.

I only say this because both me and my STBX were terribly guilty of projecting our needs onto each other. Or by saying the reason that the me/her had that need was invalid or had no merit. So, because this is how we felt we weren't going to meet that need, because we didn't think the other person should have it.

10Girl, we are all her to learn and to be introspective in our own actions. This past year has been terrible for you, and me too, Neither of us deserved what happened.

But as William Money said, "Deservin' gots nothing to do with it."

I hope God smiles on us both this year.

<small>[ January 08, 2005, 12:25 PM: Message edited by: Tom Joad ]</small>

Gimble, I know 49 is not old. I am 45 and feel young like you, on the inside and outside.

Just never had sex every day, but maybe it's because I was never in a good relationship.

But in my next one, if Pep says it keeps one young, you better believe I'll be taking advantage of that! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> and if he gets something out of it too, well all the better!

Chack,

Ya! Alternatives are always a way to show you do care. And not just pertaining to SF. The way you answer questions involving needs has an impact on how your spouse reacts and feels.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If I am not really that "into it" I tell hubby later or tomorrow. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And as Pep pointed out, this thread isn't really just about SF, it is about any unmet need.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But if you do that, it's important to follow through with what you said </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is probably the most important part. My STBX had no follow through on most things (not just SF). I felt I was getting the brush off, being ignored, and generally felt like a nobody.

When I told her that she decided she wouldn't do that anymore and just flat out said Nope.

10girl, that is where the "no-way, no how" comment came from. My STBX wouldn't say exactly that. Usually it was a chortle, or some throaty guffaw, followed by a smug "No"

Chack, read it is pretty cold in Green Bay <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> Those indoor, carpet lounging Vikings my be in trouble.

Oh man, is the game today? I have been so busy with stuff around here I lost all track of timing!

Oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy!!!!!

Let's hope Green Bay doesn't follow the steps of my Sooners...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Octobergirl:
Pep,
See,compromise.If I only wear my high heels from car to restaurant and back,can I wear my comfy and fluffy slippers the rest of the night? LOL! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Only if you enjoy the next man in your life wearing his old ragged sweats while you have those bunny slippers on your feet! But if the desire seems to be slipping away ... wear those shoes if they keep the *pep* in your man's *pointer*.

If you were NOT divorcing, but reconciling, imagine how you dressed when you were flirting with and persuing your H .... and dress the same way after marriage.... not ALL the time.... but on dates, and when he says he'd like it.

Pep

<small>[ January 08, 2005, 12:22 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Chick Chack, it's tommorrow girl.

4:00pm game on the east coast.

<small>[ January 08, 2005, 12:22 PM: Message edited by: Tom Joad ]</small>

Tom,

I don't know how well you are familiar with my story but the very fact that I was willing to forgive my WH for what he did and do whatever it took to improve our marriage that was agreeable to both of us speaks volumes about how much I loved my WH and wanted to make things right again.I was very willing and eager to do this for us since we had been together so long and had a family.

At the time,he did not have to justify anything to me,I was willing to try my best to fulfill whatever he thought was missing in our marriage.He never told me that anything was missing before the A and it makes it doubly hard to accept this situation.I had no idea he was "unahppy" and now I have no chance to make up for it. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> You touched a very sore nerve on this for me.

Wearing high heel shoes was not a need I was ever aware of before that he "needed" hence the uncertainty or questionable justification in my mind about this topic.I only say this now looking back on it all.

I never intentionally made my WH feel his needs or feelings were unimportant.I just never knew that things had changed because he didn't talk to me about it. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> For that I will be eternally sorry.......

10girl, I know your story, I've followed your posts, but can know only a part of your pain. You have had a few very heavy crosses to bear that I was spared.

You don't know, what you don't know. Isn't that the crux of the whole needs thing?

Lots of times my STBX mislead me about her needs. Told me everything was great ... getting better every day in fact. The whle time the she was preparing for a divorce.

<small>[ January 08, 2005, 01:13 PM: Message edited by: Tom Joad ]</small>

Octobergirl,

You asked: Did I read that correctly?: that you can achive an O without any physical contact???? LUCKY!! lol

My answer: Yup! I know, it's a rarity! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Some of my friends said that it makes my H's "job" so easy!! LOL. But, you know, having that in my back pocket makes me not so eager to have sex ALL of the time, so it's a good and bad thing! I don't have to depend on anyone to do that for me, ya know? I do love the intimate contact when I have "real" sex though. Can't beat that!

Pep:
Gee, I wear 4" heels ALL of the time (I'm really petite). My H is so used to me wearing them, that it's no big deal. He does like when I get all dressed up though. Now that turns him on!

BTW, I'm in agreement with you over the whole SF thing. I want to please my H. It's really not a chore. But it's the best when we're both in the same place and we both want it. He's okay with my not wanting it as often as he does. I offer to choose another time and place, and it works out. I'm not shirking any SF duties! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

CC

O - you just hang in there. I had a feeling that this thread was starting to open up partially healed wounds, and it seems it has for you.

{{{{{{{{Octobergirl}}}}}}}}

I wish we lived closer together, I would make you go out for some con queso and a brew with me.

Hi weaver,

Thanks for the cyber hugs.I hadn't cried in a long time but I did and it made me realize how everything is still right there,under the surface.I have just put layers over it to try and make it go away and it's not.Not having a recovery means I have to find some way of delaing with this all by myself and I don't know if I will ever be over it. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I would love to go out and have a drink with you if you were nearby.I think though that I need a break from here for a spell.I feel all messed up again.yuk <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Catch you later....

Boy, I left for a while and did not know what I started.

Yes, I agree both should give affection for SF to happen. NO, I'm not talking about sex on demand.

I was asking, if your spouse is attentive and affectionate, why the resentment? If you love your husband, why do you not feel like it?

For me, all the affection and cuddling without SF just leads to frustration on my part. As a result, I start to feel that she really doesn't love me. I don't start LBing, I just feel hurt and unwanted.

Now that I think of it, maybe that's what Stanley feels. Doctors have egos as big as all outdoors. Being turned down by your wife after she did not turn down OM must be a big kick in the tail.

I really like the spin PEP has put on this issue. Meeting each other’s emotional needs should be a fun thing to do. I would hope that everyone here enjoys meeting their spouses EMs. I think that there are many here that have not yet reached that worthy target. I say GIVE IT UP and enjoy, regardless if it is conversation or sexual fulfillment.

This is a simple issue, if you put the right spin on it (PEP).

Mr. G

there was a time in our married lives when I wanted SF every night and more if I could get it.

what I learned from those days is that it's possible to have contact without connection. I learned that such contact is not fulfilling nor satisfying and for me becomes compulsively driven like an addict who develops a tolerance to a drug and needs more and more get the same effect.

for me and not speaking for anyone else, I know that there is such a thing as too much of a good thing. I love sex. I love skin contact. I love to get naked and cuddly with my wife and make love and would likely want to do that and nothing else 24/7/365 if it were possible. i have learned however that the closer we have ever gotten to that extreme the less of myself I owned and the less present and balanced I became in my life.

one thing about life is that it is in the living. and living continues after the orgasm, after the tenth orgasm and beyond. and what other living do we put inbetween them?

i find that it is the living that is put in between the sex that makes the sex better or worse. it is the stuff of attitudes and goals and efforts toward values that are shared, dreams that are cherished and services that can be rendered outside the sex act. these things make me the person I am and my wife the person she is and then when we unite our bodies in the dance of physical lovemaking, we are two more fully developed people not just two bodies and this makes love good and sex better.

also I know that i'm not the rip roarin' always ready youth I ever once was. being male and having sex too often can lead to depression for me thru physical depletion. the ejaculation process is referred to as a "little death" in taoist energetic tradition and I know from experience that too much sex for me does not bring more but less joy and fulfillment.

with sex as with any other appetite there is always the question of balance. either extreme is potentially damaging. too much and too little.

I am far less preoccupied these days with counting copulation sessions per week than in being part of the flow and order of our growing relationship and let the sex come when it may each time in it's own time and with respect to both our needs physically and emotionally and spiritually.

there is space in life to enjoy our bodies, there is time for talking, holding, touching, caressing and time for each of us to simply be in solitude and physically apart but united in purpose.

if the purpose of our marriage is to fulfill both of us then definately sex needs to not be overdone or it looses its savor. it needs to not be neglected and abandoned or we forget the sweetness in life.

may we all find that happy balance where the amount and spice and seasoning is just right and we are mutually joyful with the taste of our marital sex lives.

Now that I've taken the time to read this whole thread, I understand a little better where some of you are coming from.

I never ment for anyone to hurt themselves physically. Or be forced to do anything. I was asking why you don't feel like it.

In will now go back and try to find the answers on the other thread.

<small>[ January 08, 2005, 02:02 PM: Message edited by: RAG ]</small>

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ January 08, 2005, 02:17 PM: Message edited by: Tom Joad ]</small>